HAL continuing to downgrade its product

[Florida_gal_50]

13 minutes ago, Wakepatrol said:

Dr. Thunder is Walmarts version of Dr. Pepper

Thanks.  I’ve never heard of it 😛.  I’m not a pop drinker though.  Don’t forget 2 buck  chuck either.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Florida_gal_50

[KroozNut]

17 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Thanks.  I’ve never heard of it 😛.  I’m not a pop drinker though.  Don’t forget 2 buck  chuck either.

Hey, nothing wrong with two buck chuck! <hiccup> 🥴😜

[Captain Ricky]

5 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

Crisis on Carnival....no more 24/7 ice cream....LOL.....those cutbacks continue........LOL....only can get ice cream from 11am to midnight....the horror of it all....LOL.

 

Next thing you know, HAL will not put a peppermint patty on my pillow.....yikes...  end of times....LOL.

I like ice cream on my morning oatmeal. Milk and sugar together! 

[Captain Ricky]

Looking to the future a lot is going to have to change because of the industry's pledge to go carbon neutral and because of pollution concerns.  For instance.  While I love towel animals think of the environmental costs.  The ship has to generate the electricity to desalinate the water used to wash the extra towels, power the washers and driers to clean and dry them and then dispose of that much more water with detergent.  Lots of little things like that add up when it comes to carbon, fuel costs and discharge into the ocean.  My guess is that we will be seeing several changes that will reduce electric consumption, for instance.

[FlaMariner]

11 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Don’t forget 2 buck  chuck

 

Never heard of that but I do know Dr. Thunder.....LOL....

 

Different strokes for different folks.....love that we all can board a HAL ship and enjoy the journey......

[Hlitner]

11 hours ago, KroozNut said:

Hey, nothing wrong with two buck chuck! <hiccup> 🥴😜

I resemble that remark!  Seriously, DW and I do enjoy the two buck chuck (Charles Shaw) Sauvignon Blanc.  We usually keep a couple of cases in our wine storage area and it is a staple when we have chicken and some seafood dishes.   We have tried the other 2 buck chucks but did not think the others were worth the price (which is now close to $4 in many places).

 

Hank

[KroozNut]

52 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Seriously, DW and I do enjoy the two buck chuck (Charles Shaw) Sauvignon Blanc. We have tried the other 2 buck chucks but did not think the others were worth the price.

 

We're also a fan of the Sauv Blanc, and being white wine lovers, we also enjoy their Pinot Grigio. 🙂

[Hlitner]

42 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

 

We're also a fan of the Sauv Blanc, and being white wine lovers, we also enjoy their Pinot Grigio. 🙂

Just remembered an interesting tidbit about 2 buck chuck.  One day I saw a TV interview with the CEO of Bronco Wine company (a huge California wine empire).  Apparently, at the time, Bronco was the manufacturer of 2 buck chuck Cab.  When asked how long they age the grapes the CEO said that the wine aged in stainless steel tank trucks as it was driven from the vineyard to the wine production facility!  

 

But I can imagine some cruise lines selling 2 buck chuck for about $30 a bottle :).

 

Hank

[SueMo]

20 hours ago, Myrtle Ave. Mayhem said:

It appears by this thread that I'm not the only one dissatisfied with Holland America. When I first sailed with Holland America in 2000 the line felt luxury to me. A floating Ritz-Carlton IMHO. My last two cruises with HAL were on the Koningsdam & Veendam. Mediocrity at every turn, expept for the individual crew members who did the best with what they were given. Holland America feels like a watered down shadow of it's former self. 

 

In 2019 I jumped ship to Viking Ocean. Six cruises under my belt with a trans-Atlantic Viking Neptune coming up in December. They are a higher price point, but worth every penny to me. 

May I ask what it is about Viking that you like so much?  Food?  Entertainment?  Ship?  Itineraries?  I know quite a few people that really like Viking, but it is really MUCH more expensive than HAL or X, and I'm not convinced it's worth it.  (Convince me!). Another thing I worry about on Viking is that shore excursions are "included" in the pricing, but I really don't like ship sponsored shore excursions compared to independent ones, so that would be money included in the cost wasted for me.

 

I will say we are trying our first Oceania cruise in March, and it, like Viking, is also MUCH more expensive.  We chose not to get the O-Life extras to keep the cost down.  Does anybody have a comparison between Viking and Oceania?

[Cruising-along]

On 10/31/2022 at 5:39 PM, DaveOKC said:

$20 fee to bring own wine onboard - previously one bottle per person free.

18% service fee for specialty dining.

Increased prices for specialty dining.

Charges for previously free items on room service menu items 

$20 charge for lobster in Pinnacle (and MDR).

No lobster tails at "dressy or formal" night at least once per cruise.

Charging for cappuccinos after dinner.

Fewer onboard activities daily 

No fresh orange juice.

No nightly chocolates except on dressy nights.  Same for towel animals.

No paper confirmations for specialty dining, shore excursions and others.

No slippers in cabin (to go with robes).

Neptune suite coffeemakers no longer have pods for coffee, just expresso.

Nice cloth bags replaced with cheap plastic ones.

 

I am sure I could think of more later and some of these are minor, but I stated as much above.  Perhaps others can add to my list.

 

Onboard the NS for the last month and our stewards have left chocolates every day. Granted we requested nothing else and only once/day service. 
 

Question about the coffeemaker pods. I know you and we had problems on the Eurodam last year with only espresso pods but do you have more recent info on that? We’ll have a Neptune in May on the Koningsdam, I’ll bring my own pods if they still supply only espresso. 

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, SueMo said:

May I ask what it is about Viking that you like so much?  Food?  Entertainment?  Ship?  Itineraries?  I know quite a few people that really like Viking, but it is really MUCH more expensive than HAL or X, and I'm not convinced it's worth it.  (Convince me!). Another thing I worry about on Viking is that shore excursions are "included" in the pricing, but I really don't like ship sponsored shore excursions compared to independent ones, so that would be money included in the cost wasted for me.

 

I will say we are trying our first Oceania cruise in March, and it, like Viking, is also MUCH more expensive.  We chose not to get the O-Life extras to keep the cost down.  Does anybody have a comparison between Viking and Oceania?

Like you, we were somewhat resistant to paying the extra dollars for premium/luxury cruise lines.  For decades we were quite happy on the various mass market lines (including HAL) in our basic balcony cabins.  Once in a while we would venture into the higher priced lines (which were all excellent) but always came back to the lower cost mass market lines.  But about 8 years ago we noticed a gradual (but constant) decline in the quality/value of the mass market lines (with the exception of ship within a ship concepts).  We started doing more cruises in luxury lines and ship within a ship options and realized that when it came to "value" the mass market lines (such as HAL) were no longer a good fit.  Now, when we cruise on mass market lines we work at lowering our expectations and accepting that we are getting what we have paid for....which is budget cruising.  

 

Both Viking and "O" fall into that category that some here on CC call "premium" cruise lines.  When we first started cruising on HAL (80s) we think it was something akin to a premium line.  Now, after years of cutting back (I once called it "death by a thousand cut-backs") we can't help but think that on HAL we will need to really lower expectations (even more than usual).  I still miss relaxing with the Rosario Strings (some of those groups were world-class), enjoying live music in the Ocean Bar, relaxing around the bar in the Crows Nest (when it was just a bar/lounge), going to Production Shows or Guest Entertainer Shows every night, etc.  HAL cuisine used to be among the best at sea, but now it cannot even compete with what we have had on MSC unless wants to pay extra add-on fees.

 

No question that we can cruise on HAL for a lot less money than on Seabourn, Viking, "O," etc.  But it has reached the point where we find ourselves seriously questioning whether HAL is even a good value at its relatively low price points.  We will give HAL one more chance on a long Westy cruise (assuming that HAL does not cancel the cruise) and hope to be "wowed" by the HAL that we used to know and love.  But unlike many HAL fans, we have been busy cruising on other lines so we have some idea of what is offered by the competition.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

30 minutes ago, SueMo said:

Does anybody have a comparison between Viking and Oceania?

 

I don't have an "experiential" comparison, but from what I read here and other places, Viking's focus is much more about the travel aspects -- the itineraries, time in port, lecturers, etc.   Whereas Oceania is very much focused on their onboard experience, particularly dining. 

 

That's not to say that Viking doesn't have good food or that Oceania doesn't have good itineraries. It's just that one is a bigger focus than the other on each line.

 

 

[DaveOKC]

40 minutes ago, Cruising-along said:

Onboard the NS for the last month and our stewards have left chocolates every day. Granted we requested nothing else and only once/day service. 
 

Question about the coffeemaker pods. I know you and we had problems on the Eurodam last year with only espresso pods but do you have more recent info on that? We’ll have a Neptune in May on the Koningsdam, I’ll bring my own pods if they still supply only espresso. 

How about a week ago!  On the Eurodam for 16 days and only Expresso pods - room steward said they could not get the others.

[Cruising-along]

12 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

How about a week ago!  On the Eurodam for 16 days and only Expresso pods - room steward said they could not get the others.

Oh no. 😞

[KroozNut]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

We will give HAL one more chance on a long Westy cruise (assuming that HAL does not cancel the cruise) and hope to be "wowed" by the HAL that we used to know and love. 

 

I think you've already set yourselves up for disappointment on your upcoming Westy cruise, based on your very detailed (and I would agree accurate) account of how the HAL experience has declined over the past few years.

If you're expecting to "be wowed" by your experience, based on "the HAL you used to know and love", you will quickly see that sadly, HAL no longer delivers that experience.

 

[Lauranne]

We haven’t sailed with HAL for over five years. In the meantime prior to COVID we did a crossing from New York to Hamburg with Cunard and The Galapagos with Silversea. We are driven by itineraries and experiences. We have two upcoming expedition cruises with Silversea. While the first in February to Antarctica was pricey, the second in June from Hamburg to Reykjavik (exploring the northern British Isles, small islands) was not. I looked at a similar cruise on the HAL website same number of days, some of the same ports but Amsterdam to Amsterdam so fewer ports. Similar room class etc. I added on HIA as Silversea is all inclusive. While HAL was less expensive, I started adding on the extras I get with Silversea. Transfer from home to airport, transfer to hotel, pre and post hotel and transfers home. No tipping, butler service etc. The HAL cruise would cost me more. I certainly agree that these luxury cruise lines are generally more expensive but not always. It pays to shop around. I know that expedition cruises are not for everyone. This was just an example from my recent searches. I love reading this board and seeing so many long time posters. 
Lauranne

[whogo]

Has no one mentioned the lack of gold stickers on the laundry?  Talk about cutbacks. Fourteen nights on Zaandam and not one gold sticker. To add insult to injury, they no longer roll the lox into little cylinders with garnishes, they just lay it out flat on a platter. Don't get me started on the lack of horseradish in the cocktail sauce.

 

Seriously, I wrote at the time that I felt our August cruise was up to pre-covid standards. I was elated to feast on mussels four times in fourteen days, also had included escargot and jumbo shrimp cocktail each week. Love that the dining room is open for breakfast and love their afternoon tea. The front desk took care of my tech issues in a couple of minutes, better result than I'd ever had with any dealing with the front desk.

 

I am not affected by corkage charges, don't drink wine.

Don't care about specialty dining price increases, don't eat there, our Pinnacle Grill experiences were disappointing in the past.

I can survive without included lobster tails.

Instead of bemoaning the lack of fresh squeezed oranges, I eat a couple of oranges, it's healthier.

I don't need towel animals, turn down service, or pillow chocolates.

Could never hear live music in the dining room over the din.

Don't miss the crew show, watched about five minutes of them in the past.

I'm surprised I don't miss libraries and librarians. My Kindle and books on my phone work out great.

I thought BB King's was a big entertainment improvement, never cared much for HAL's stage shows.

I think the tent cities are an abomination, haven't sailed on a ship with one.

 

 

[FlaMariner]

+1....love the above!

[Florida_gal_50]

34 minutes ago, whogo said:

Has no one mentioned the lack of gold stickers on the laundry?  Talk about cutbacks. Fourteen nights on Zaandam and not one gold sticker. To add insult to injury, they no longer roll the lox into little cylinders with garnishes, they just lay it out flat on a platter. Don't get me started on the lack of horseradish in the cocktail sauce.

 

Seriously, I wrote at the time that I felt our August cruise was up to pre-covid standards. I was elated to feast on mussels four times in fourteen days, also had included escargot and jumbo shrimp cocktail each week. Love that the dining room is open for breakfast and love their afternoon tea. The front desk took care of my tech issues in a couple of minutes, better result than I'd ever had with any dealing with the front desk.

 

I am not affected by corkage charges, don't drink wine.

Don't care about specialty dining price increases, don't eat there, our Pinnacle Grill experiences were disappointing in the past.

I can survive without included lobster tails.

Instead of bemoaning the lack of fresh squeezed oranges, I eat a couple of oranges, it's healthier.

I don't need towel animals, turn down service, or pillow chocolates.

Could never hear live music in the dining room over the din.

Don't miss the crew show, watched about five minutes of them in the past.

I'm surprised I don't miss libraries and librarians. My Kindle and books on my phone work out great.

I thought BB King's was a big entertainment improvement, never cared much for HAL's stage shows.

I think the tent cities are an abomination, haven't sailed on a ship with one.

 

 

Good to know.  I don't like the small ships either so it works out for both of us.  Did you realize that those "tent cities" bring in around $7500 a week?  Are you willing to compensate the loss in revenue was what is basically useless space.  No one would be spending time on those outside decks because there is nothing there.  If you are talking about the lido ones that is different.  Those are gone on the newest ships.  I think there should be no casinos on any ships but that would be a travesty for some.  

[dwc13]

4 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

  I think there should be no casinos on any ships but that would be a travesty for some.  

 

I respect your right to be wrong. 😜

[Florida_gal_50]

9 minutes ago, dwc13 said:

 

I respect your right to be wrong. 😜

I'm just trying to show not everyone likes the same thing.  I've heard about 10 times in the last few days about the "tent cities" and how terrible they are.  People need to realize that they bring in money to what was a hot area with basically no shade but that doesn't matter.  Because they don't like it its useless and horrible.  Honestly I really don't care if there are casinos on a ship.  I can avoid it.  I just want some to get a taste of their own medicine.  People love libraries too.  I can tell you for sure I've never said it's a huge waste of money and they should be gone.  I don't use them either.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Florida_gal_50

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, KroozNut said:

 

I think you've already set yourselves up for disappointment on your upcoming Westy cruise, based on your very detailed (and I would agree accurate) account of how the HAL experience has declined over the past few years.

If you're expecting to "be wowed" by your experience, based on "the HAL you used to know and love", you will quickly see that sadly, HAL no longer delivers that experience.

 

We hear you.  The cruise is a fantastic Asian itinerary that we booked over 4 years ago (and have gone through 3 Covid-related HAL cancellations).  We figure the itinerary (and our pre-cruise land trip) should make it all worthwhile.  As to being back aboard the Westy (we have cruised on her before) we can adjust and will have plenty of books loaded on our Kindles which will likely be the main entertainment :).  Ironically, we get an awful lot of free meals in the Pinnacle (promotions, our 5 * status, and two different booking numbers) and we are already talking about trying to switch some of those to the lower cost Pinnacle lunches which we have found more enjoyable than the dinners.  

 

Reading some of the posts on CC from HAL lovers would lead us to think that the line is as good as in the past :).  The truth is that are best cruises (over about 50 years) have best been defined by the wonderful passengers and crew we have met on HAL.  We suspect that has not changed so it should all be enjoyable :).  It would not be the first time we sat in a lounge with friends, sipping an adult beverage, and laughing about the food or entertainment.   I still remember the first time we experienced a HAL "dark night" (happened on a transpacific Oosterdam cruise) when there was simply no entertainment other than a movie.  A few of us had too much to drink and made our own fun :).  I will admit that we despite having been on numerous cruises with 16 lines it is only on HAL when we have ever experienced a "dark night."  Other lines do not even know about "dark nights."  

 

Hank

[Jimbo59]

Celebrity Edge class ships are different than HAL ships.
The Infinite Veranda (IV) on Edge class ships is not a veranda cabin. It is an ocean view cabin with a window that can be opened halfway down (sometimes). We are on the Beyond now and the Management closes the window frequently without any notice. There is never an announcement that the window can be reopened.

 

Don’t book an IV cabin expecting it is a traditional veranda or balcony.

[Jimbo59]

2 minutes ago, Jimbo59 said:

 

Celebrity Edge class ships are different than HAL ships.
The Infinite Veranda (IV) on Edge class ships is not a veranda cabin. It is an ocean view cabin with a window that can be opened halfway down (sometimes). We are on the Beyond now and the Management closes the window frequently without any notice. There is never an announcement that the window can be reopened.

 

Don’t book an IV cabin expecting it is a traditional veranda or balcony.

 

3 minutes ago, Jimbo59 said:

 

Celebrity Edge class ships are different than HAL ships.
The Infinite Veranda (IV) on Edge class ships is not a veranda cabin. It is an ocean view cabin with a window that can be opened halfway down (sometimes). We are on the Beyond now and the Management closes the window frequently without any notice. There is never an announcement that the window can be reopened.

 

Don’t book an IV cabin on Celebrity expecting it is a traditional veranda or balcony.

The alternative to an IV cabin on Celebrity can be a different cruise line. For me it will be Holland America. HAL has real balconies, traditional fixed dinner seating (Celebrity has done away with traditional fixed dinner seating on Edge class ships), a wrap around walking deck, and a different dinner menu every night.

[Myrtle Ave. Mayhem]

@SueMo- It's as if Torstein Hagen saw my personal wish list for a cruise line & went to work creating it. Attention to detail, modern beautiful ships, onboard focus on service & food. Refined, relaxing, yet never stuffy. Say you had a rich Norwegian great aunt & spent a week or two at her house.... or a floating Zen palace at sea. That in a nutshell is how I can best describe the overall Viking Ocean experience.

 

The ships are stunning at every turn. Chock full of public rooms with glorious floor to ceiling windows looking out to sea. The Scandinavian Modern decor on full display. Some call it Ikea, but more accurately it's Design Within Reach. The bright modern interiors might seem off putting but are actually very warm & cozy. Very spacious ships that absorb the passengers perfectly. Never any problem finding a seat in a lounge, buffet, or poolside. Intimate groups of seating all around the ship. These are ships clearly designed for passenger comfort and enjoyment in a way mass market ships aren't. 

 

Onboard the focus is on food, service, attention to detail. As a higher price point line there is no annoying constant revenue production. No casino, no art auctions, no photographers, no children. Smokers must smoke in a small area on an outter deck. No smoking inside. After my first cruise on the other cruises there have always been crew who remember me, calling me by name and remembering my dining & service preferences. Speaking of price point, the minimum cabin category starts at veranda level. Soft drinks, specialty coffee, beer, wine included at lunch & dinner.... with frequent liberal pouring throughout the day & evening beyond those allotted time frames. Specialty dining & use of the spa included. Food variety, flavor, presentation in The Restaurant, the Viking MDR like what HAL MDR was 20 years ago. Attention to detail in the little things, it's obvious Viking really understands this. Background music played at background decibel. Frequently no music played poolside on sea days, just the ambient sounds of the ship, sea, & passengers. This is a line that is very receptive to passenger feedback. On a B2B Bermuda cruise last year I mentioned a few minor clutches that were specifically addressed & corrected the second week. 

 

Having said this, most Viking itineraries are very port heavy. Frequently cruises have no sea days. All I love about Viking is specifically regarding the onboard experience, ambiance. It is possible to find itineraries with sea days. That's why I prefer trans-Atlantic crossings. The ship becomes the destination. The daily lectures, live music, afternoon tea in The Wintergarden, spa, & dancing into the AM at Torshaven create the perfect balance of relaxation & activity. 

 

@Hlitner- You hit the nail on the head. I couldn't articulate it better myself. 

 

@cruisemom42- I haven't sailed with Oceania either, so I can't directly compare. I will say that although Viking itineraries focus on ports, the onboard experience in sum total is first class hospitality industry all the way. Everything onboard was completely on point.