Suspicious Cruise Itinerary Change

[DebInAntigua]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:03 PM, cruisestitch said:

Was this a lift and shift situation ?  Or were you applying FCC to the new cruise?

 

 

We kept the same reservation number as the original cruise. It wasn’t the same destination or itinerary at all, so not sure why it was done that way. Maybe so they could waive the change fees? 

[ldubs]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:42 PM, Jim_Iain said:

 

 I don't believe it is San Francisco.  

 

I watched a program the other day and apparently the protocol is for ships on the Coastal Route during migration period to substantially increase the distance between ships and thus having to reduce ships speeds ..    Thus they probably have to skip a port to meet their schedule.    I'm surprised they chose San Francisco to eliminate but may have to do with scheduling of the port and revise time or date of arrival.

 

These regulation by NOAA were just approved on January 5

https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/new-protections-for-endangered-whales-along-california-coast-adopted

 

 

That is what I was thinking. Ive been reading about new reg's where vessels of a certain size must operate at reduced speed for quite some distance from shore.   But the one I was reading about wasn't limited to the west coast.  

[manmachine]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:42 PM, 1025cruise said:

Just a reminder, per your contract, ports are not guaranteed.

 

[dlh015]

On 3/10/2023 at 6:42 AM, phoenix_dream said:

For people who have never been there, or not been there often, I think it is a very nice port.  The area around the port has a lot of nice little shops (may not thrill the men but many of us of the fair sex like that).  You can rent a golf cart and drive around the island which is fun in and of itself.  I personally like the nice little botanic garden they have.  I would absolutely rather have Monterey as there is of course much more to do, but I think Catalina Island is a great stop.  

Not to mention a great miniature golf course there...that has been there over 40 years!!  I played it back in '78 (well before all the expensive hotels showed up...lol) and again about 6 years ago...

 

[jbcallender]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:54 PM, jwlane said:

Fill us in on your source that substantiates west coast whale migration 200 years ago.

 

By the way, MINIMAL research show new recommended procedures were adopted last September.  MINIMAL!  https://whalesafe.com/announcing-the-expansion-of-whale-safe-to-san-francisco/

Whalers followed the whales and knew the migration routes and calving harbors over 200 years ago. 

[Mark_K]

11 hours ago, jbcallender said:

Whalers followed the whales and knew the migration routes and calving harbors over 200 years ago. 

There wasn’t much west coast of US whaling 200 years ago, but that’s not really relevant.  What may be relevant is that the patterns are not static, and that past few years have shown a shift towards the busier sea lanes.

[jwlane]

16 hours ago, jbcallender said:

Whalers followed the whales and knew the migration routes and calving harbors over 200 years ago. 

Hit us up with your source that substantiates your claim. 

[phoenix_dream]

On 3/11/2023 at 5:04 AM, iandjm said:

It’s ok but not for what is now a 9 hour call 

Personally I like long port days regardless of the port.  It means everyone doesn't feel the need to jam the hallways and elevators trying to rush off as soon as the door opens.  You can relax, take your time, and enjoy your visit.  Like I said, I would have rather had Monterey as there is a lot more to do, but as a substitute I don't think it's nearly as undesirable as it was being made out to be.  That's my only point.

[AnnemarieC76]

I will say that you get points for your caption of this topic - and the more I read through the more i had to laugh!  Thank you to the user you posted the actual email - not very suspicious - what is more suspicious is your serious financial obligations in San Francisco lol!

 

Celebrity (really all cruising) has been under fire for years and big time when they reopened after the pandemic - if they made a business decision to avoid more issues or a business decision knowing it was going to be regulated that is their prerogative - just as it is yours to sail with a different cruise line - BUT please let us all know if you find a cruise line that does not have this clause... 

 

I do hope you still enjoy your cruise...there is never a bad day at sea 🙂

 

Clause 7 a in the Cruise/Cruisetour Ticket Contract

 

a. Carrier may for any reason at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing, port of call, destination, lodging or any activity on or off the Vessel, or substitute another vessel or port of call, destination, lodging or activity. 

 

 Carrier shall not be liable for any claim whatsoever by Passenger, including but not limited to loss, compensation or refund, by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement, substitution or deviation. b. In connection with a CruiseTour, Carrier has the same right to cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled activity, departure or destination, or substitute another railcar, bus, destination or lodging or other component of the CruiseTour.

Edited March 13, 2023 by AnnemarieC76

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 minutes ago, AnnemarieC76 said:

I will say that you get points for your caption of this topic - and the more I read through the more i had to laugh!  Thank you to the user you posted the actual email - not very suspicious - what is more suspicious is your serious financial obligations in San Francisco lol!

 

Celebrity (really all cruising) has been under fire for years and big time when they reopened after the pandemic - if they made a business decision to avoid more issues or a business decision knowing it was going to be regulated that is their prerogative - just as it is yours to sail with a different cruise line - BUT please let us all know if you find a cruise line that does not have this clause... 

 

I do hope you still enjoy your cruise...there is never a bad day at sea 🙂

 

Clause 7 a in the Cruise/Cruisetour Ticket Contract

 

a. Carrier may for any reason at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing, port of call, destination, lodging or any activity on or off the Vessel, or substitute another vessel or port of call, destination, lodging or activity. 

 

 Carrier shall not be liable for any claim whatsoever by Passenger, including but not limited to loss, compensation or refund, by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement, substitution or deviation. b. In connection with a CruiseTour, Carrier has the same right to cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled activity, departure or destination, or substitute another railcar, bus, destination or lodging or other component of the CruiseTour.

We certainly-once again-have gotten off topic.  The changes are what they are.  Nothing sinister.  The contract say X has the right to change ports and schedules.

On an upcoming cruise the ending port was changed 3 times.  Not happy.  Was told I had a choice between accepting the changes or cancellation with the normal penalties. 

[jbcallender]

On 3/12/2023 at 4:42 PM, jwlane said:

Hit us up with your source that substantiates your claim. 

It was easy.  Google.  Go to NHA.org.  Nantucket Historical Association.  Whalers knew when and where whales migrated as early as the 1600's.

[jbcallender]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:30 PM, Mark_K said:

There wasn’t much west coast of US whaling 200 years ago, but that’s not really relevant.  What may be relevant is that the patterns are not static, and that past few years have shown a shift towards the busier sea lanes.

Indigenous peoples hunted whales in the atlantic and the pacific for many hundreds of years.  They figured out caribou migrations and they figured out whale migrations.

[jwlane]

12 hours ago, jbcallender said:

Go to NHA.org.  

Too bad you cannot cite an/the exact URL that substantiates you claim.  BTW,  Nantucket isn't near the Pacific.

[Charles4515]

12 hours ago, jbcallender said:

Indigenous peoples hunted whales in the atlantic and the pacific for many hundreds of years.  They figured out caribou migrations and they figured out whale migrations.

There were no super mega cruise ships for most of those those hundreds of years. Because of whale strikes by large ships a voluntary agreement was made to limit speed to protect whales. If they don’t limit speed voluntarily the lower speeds will probably become mandatory. Perhaps some don’t think whales need to be protected but that would be another topic. There was nothing suspicious about the change of itinerary. 
 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/cruises-ships-break-speed-limit-protect-whales/3089966/

Edited March 16, 2023 by Charles4515

[Arizona Wildcat]

1 hour ago, jwlane said:

Too bad you cannot cite an/the exact URL that substantiates you claim.  BTW,  Nantucket isn't near the Pacific.

Because the first English town on the West Coast was Astoria founded in 1811.  My source is the town charter on display at the local city hall.  The Pacific Coast had few European contacts until after about 1812.  The Russians in Alaska have extensive records about their settlements in Alaska and whaling mostly in St Petersburg at the Hermitage.  Whales were a source of $, oil and food to both the Russians and native peoples.

Suggesting that natives or Russians would simply set sail and hope to see whales is folly.  You can easily see the migration from shore.

PS try reading about the exploration of the Pacific Coast.  I suggest a book - there are dozens - instead of a URL.

[jwlane]

14 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

there are dozens 

Gladly---how about citing one that backs your or JB's allegations?

[Arizona Wildcat]

To jwlane.  Three things.

 

Whales and Whaling in Puget Sound Coast Salish History and Culture by J Clapperton is in my library.  Doing a Google search I found 311 books searching Indigenous whaling on the Pacific Coast

 

Second I find your continuous comments that state what myself and others are posting as "allegations" is insulting and rude.

 

Third, goodbye 👋 

[jbcallender]

13 hours ago, jwlane said:

Too bad you cannot cite an/the exact URL that substantiates you claim.  BTW,  Nantucket isn't near the Pacific.

Wikipedia, topic "Aboriginal Whaling"  Discusses whaling practices among several pacific indigenous peoples.  Cites examples of at least 100 years ago.  

[mayleeman]

Whalers' general knowledge of migration patterns helped them find the breeding and feeding grounds, but it would be pretty silly to think modern marine biologists haven't learned far more information. The patterns are not identical from year to year, especially with changes in ocean temperatues. Those variations did exist in the 19th century, which is why whalers often had to spend weeks trying to locate the whales when they weren't where other ships had reported.

 

A fascinating book about a whaling expedition from Nantucket to the Pacific is Nathaniel Phillbrick's 2000 nonfiction Nat"l Book Award winning "In the Heart of the Sea" about the whaler Essex, sunk by a sperm whale in 1820 (the story behind Moby Dick). It was also a Ron Howard movie in 2015. Sidenote: he wrote another great book about the first US maritime scientific exploration in the Pacific in the early 19th century, "Sea of Glory."