Crew staffing levels

[JennysUncle]

We are just back from the Koningsdam (March 2023). Our dining room service was slow, so was getting drinks from servers in the bars, and our room stewards had 34 cabins to take care of.  They managed well, but partly by taking longer in the morning to get to everyone, and many people dispensing with the nightly turn-down.  Pre-covid on the Koningsdam I think they had only in the high 20's.

 

At one session, the CD said that there were 2580 passengers and 952 crew onboard.  The TA we use lists the ship capacity as 2650 and the crew compliment as 1036.  That puts the staffing level down by 84 (8%) with the passenger load not much below normal. I suspect the engineering, navigation, galley, and administrative staffs are not susceptible to much shrinkage, so most the the cuts are probably more from the room stewards, dining servers, and bar attendants.

 

Has anyone else heard comparable staffing figures?  We hope that this is temporary - not because our experience wasn't as good as we expected from HAL, but that the crew are really being pushed to compensate for the shortage.

[albingirl]

Ships are sailing full again, so that will add to the feeling of staffing shortages.  I don't have the specific data about staffing levels, but it's easy to see the difference since the ships were half full.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I personally do not think HAL considers they are under staffed. The Crew numbers are by choice. They will not be increasing the numbers anytime soon. This is the new normal for Holland America.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I happened to be going back to my cabin after breakfast one morning and noticed a supervisor in the hallway. I said good morning, and he walked over to ask me if everything was okay in my room. I told him how good my steward was, and that I tended to go to breakfast early and always put out the sign, so he could get my cabin done before a lot of other people were ready for him. I said that it seemed they were around doing rooms later in the day than I remembered. I asked if they have more cabins to do than they used to, and he made a little scissor gesture, acknowledging staff cuts. 

 

Our service at dinner was slow, too. Other tables around us got their main courses before we got our starters. It felt like every waiter/assistant waiter pair had one more table than they could keep up with. We didn't mind, as we enjoyed chatting over a leisurely dinner. But other passengers might have complained. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 minutes ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

I personally do not think HAL considers they are under staffed. The Crew numbers are by choice. They will not be increasing the numbers anytime soon. This is the new normal for Holland America.

 

I can't "like" this post because it isn't good to hear, but I do think you're right. ☹️

[Florida_gal_50]

16 minutes ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

I personally do not think HAL considers they are under staffed. The Crew numbers are by choice. They will not be increasing the numbers anytime soon. This is the new normal for Holland America.

I agree 100 percent.  I know people love to say hal just can’t get the staff.  I don’t believe it for a minute.  It’s a choice to cheap out wherever they can.

[sciencewonk]

On our recent cruise, San Diego to Sydney on Noordam, we didn't experience any of the slow service and under staffing that I see people complaining about.  We had an experienced waiter paired with a brand new waiter in the MDR.  By the end of the cruise, the new waiter was performing at traditional HAL levels.  Perhaps the staffing issues are ship specific?

[Florida_gal_50]

37 minutes ago, sciencewonk said:

On our recent cruise, San Diego to Sydney on Noordam, we didn't experience any of the slow service and under staffing that I see people complaining about.  We had an experienced waiter paired with a brand new waiter in the MDR.  By the end of the cruise, the new waiter was performing at traditional HAL levels.  Perhaps the staffing issues are ship specific?

I would think they would be.  I suspect your cruise wouldn’t be as full as left say a Caribbean or Mexico cruise as I’m assuming it was longer.  

[eroller]

1 hour ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

I personally do not think HAL considers they are under staffed. The Crew numbers are by choice. They will not be increasing the numbers anytime soon. This is the new normal for Holland America.

 

I feel the exact same way.  Not just for HAL but most major lines.  I think it will be the new norm. Cruise lines are seeing the savings by reducing crew size even as it diminishes the product offering. The savings win the battle especially as the majors have yet to show a profit.  
 

So I no longer think it’s a case of “crew shortage” but permanent crew downsizing.  Be prepared to wait longer and receive less as your crew works harder (but probably earns no more).  

[dawei]

This report may help in answering the staffing level question. My DW and daughter just returned from a 1 week Caribbean on Carnival Spirit (that choice was at our daughter's request). My wife said the number of crew members was astounding. In the Lido, for example, as soon as you finished using a utensil, plate or bowl, it was whisked away by a crew member. Just as soon as people finished eating and had gotten up to leave, crew members were right there to reset that table. Just looking around in the Lido one saw many working crew members in every direction.

In the MDR, same situation. No sooner had they sat down and here comes bread basket, plate, butter knife, water and menus. The time between placing your ordered meal and being served was astonishingly short.

Even check-in displayed the benefit of having plenty of staff to take care of pax. They carried their own luggage off the ship at disembarkation, were among the first group off, and noticed the terminal was already packed with luggage waiting for pax to claim them.

 

Meanwhile, in other areas, especially variety and quality of food, my DW was highly impressed by Carnival compared with HAL's offerings, especially those of late. It appeared that the Spirit's food budget must be at least twice that of HAL in light of our recent experiences.

Speaking of recent, this Carnival cruise stands out in sharp comparison to our Feb, 2023 in SE Asia on the Westerdam, which proved to be poles apart in all areas from the Spirit last week!

These comments are just a few that come immediately to mind.

Footnote- It had been years since either my DW or I had last been on a Carnival ship, what a turnaround that cruise line has done! Except for the wild interior colors/design, Carnival certainly "ain't what it used to be" in a most positive direction!

 

[Mary229]

On my last cruise crew members told me the labor market is so tight that there are employment headhunters at all major ports and some crew never return after shore leave as they took the better offer.  

[oakridger]

5 hours ago, Mary229 said:

some crew never return after shore leave as they took the better offer.  

 

Glad to hear people finding a better situation for themselves.  It's good to have competition among employers so people get raises that weren't provided by their previous job.  Happens in most industries.  The only way to get decent raises when I was still working was to switch jobs.  Sad really.

 

~Nancy

[Mary229]

Just now, oakridger said:

 

Glad to hear people finding a better situation for themselves.  It's good to have competition among employers so people get raises that weren't provided by their previous job.  Happens in most industries.  The only way to get decent raises when I was still working was to switch jobs.  Sad really.

 

~Nancy

The crew member who asked my advice I told to take the offer to her supervisor and see if he could match it .  She said she liked HAL and that was worth something.  When I was young I was in a position that similarly was very competitive and this is what I did.  You get to maintain your friendships and the comfort of familiarity yet reap a benefit 

[oakridger]

Yes I agree @Mary229.  People always have to weigh all the aspects of their jobs when they decide to stay or move on.  I stayed at most of my jobs because I liked them until the time came when the companies just couldn't match the pay of the competition for what ever reason.

 

HAL has many crew who have been with the company for many, many years so they must like working there.  Even before Covid, I would imagine that there were a lot of job openings with other lines for ship positions.

 

~Nancy

[HappyInVan]

16 hours ago, JennysUncle said:

At one session, the CD said that there were 2580 passengers and 952 crew onboard.  The TA we use lists the ship capacity as 2650 and the crew compliment as 1036.  That puts the staffing level down by 84 (8%) with the passenger load not much below normal. I suspect the engineering, navigation, galley, and administrative staffs are not susceptible to much shrinkage, so most the the cuts are probably more from the room stewards, dining servers, and bar attendants.

 

 

+1

 

Its a choice made by HAL. They could bring up the staffing levels by paying more, or reducing the number of ships sailing. Instead, many ships will be understaffed in the hotel department.

[dawei]

In light of reports about crew members job-hopping from Mary 229, Oakridger and HappInVan this begs the question--So, what is Carnival doing or doing differently that results in that line having a very full complement of crew members onboard?

 

David 

[YXU AC*SE]

47 minutes ago, dawei said:

So, what is Carnival doing or doing differently ... ?

 

DIfferent talent recruitment pools between the two brands?  With HAL biased toward Filipino and Indonesian staff, the specific labour market conditions (and available substitutes) there might be a driver compared with Carnival's more global talent pool.  Further, I think HAL's training regime is recognized throughout the hospitality industry, so if you've been skilled up, and have language proficiency, you can write your own ticket so to speak? 

 

The plural of anecdote should never be confused for data, but I was (late-)checking into an Ottawa, ON hotel, and the night manager recognized me from a previous sailing on Koningsdam where we worked to track down some mis-applied OBC. The COVID shutdown of the industry forced him to seek alternate employment to support his family.  Scott. 

[OlsSalt]

The growth of South East Asian economies in the past decades factors in as well.

 

Going to sea is no longer a top employment option, after Asian high tech Tigers also started roaring.  Learning to code, instead of learning to make hospital corners on cruise ship beds skewed the labor market too. 

 

Wonder also if declining birth rates in this part of the world are also affecting the available labor pool.

 

It was a privilege to be under the care of such exceptional crew members that we consistently experienced on Holland America cruise ships - creating a very special Holland America value-added, as well as a feeling of genuine affection.

 

One hopes for the very best for all future, present and past Holland American crew members. Wherever life's opportunities take them.  Impossible to calculate the intangible value of  the good will generated by HAL crew members.

 

I hope in every way it was a mutual exchange. Yes, we were paying customers funding their employment. But the onboard atmosphere created by HAL staff and crew we felt, always exceeded the financial exchange. HAL ships truly are happy ships. 

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, dawei said:

is Carnival doing or doing differently that results in that line having a very full complement of crew members onboard?

 

I would need to look it up but I am willing to bet the ratio of crew to passenger is not as small as it is on HAL 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Mary229

[OlsSalt]

6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I would need to look it up but I am willing to bet the ration of crew to passenger is not as small as it is on HAL 

 

One might assume from recent reports Carnival "fun ships" also require higher security staffing, than do HAL ships. Just numbers - staff to passenger ratio - only tells part of the story.

[eroller]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

 

One might assume from recent reports Carnival "fun ships" also require higher security staffing, than do HAL ships. Just numbers - staff to passenger ratio - only tells part of the story.

 

 

Very true.  I would be willing to bet Carnival has the largest security department in the industry, and unfortunately it’s needed.  

[vicd1969]

20 hours ago, sciencewonk said:

On our recent cruise, San Diego to Sydney on Noordam, we didn't experience any of the slow service and under staffing that I see people complaining about.  We had an experienced waiter paired with a brand new waiter in the MDR.  By the end of the cruise, the new waiter was performing at traditional HAL levels.  Perhaps the staffing issues are ship specific?

It probably is ship-specific, but more because you were on a Vista-class ship with a lower passenger to crew ratio than that on the Pinnacle class ships where other posters have noted a lack of staff.

[shack]

3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

One might assume from recent reports Carnival "fun ships" also require higher security staffing, than do HAL ships. Just numbers - staff to passenger ratio - only tells part of the story.

 

1 hour ago, vicd1969 said:

It probably is ship-specific, but more because you were on a Vista-class ship with a lower passenger to crew ratio than that on the Pinnacle class ships where other posters have noted a lack of staff.

 

Carnival has always been a floating frat house, esp now on spring break.

[HappyInVan]

17 hours ago, dawei said:

In light of reports about crew members job-hopping from Mary 229, Oakridger and HappInVan this begs the question--So, what is Carnival doing or doing differently that results in that line having a very full complement of crew members onboard?

 

 

Fact is that Carnival is maintaining its operating standards. It has quick service in the Lido in order to reduce queues. A quick turnover is not for everyone, but quick seating and service is appreciated by many.

 

On HAL, they don't seem to care. There's long queues and slow service.

 

Here's a comparison between the Konningsdam (launched 2016) and Carnival Panorama (2018). The Panorama (133k GT and 4k pax double occupancy) has a crew/pax ratio similar to the smaller Koningsdam.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Koningsdam

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Panorama

 

 

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Fact is that Carnival is maintaining its operating standards. It has quick service in the Lido in order to reduce queues. A quick turnover is not for everyone, but quick seating and service is appreciated by many.

 

On HAL, they don't seem to care. There's long queues and slow service.

 

Here's a comparison between the Konningsdam (launched 2016) and Carnival Panorama (2018). The Panorama (133k GT and 4k pax double occupancy) has a crew/pax ratio similar to the smaller Koningsdam.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Koningsdam

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Panorama

 

 

Koningsdam needs a new restaurant/dining manager. I continue to read the same complaints about this ship as I had in 2019, before the pandemic.   I have sailed 3 other HAL ships in the last year and the restaurant service experience was excellent.  I disagree with your assessment that HAL just doesn’t care.