Arvia K308 - All aboard

[Interestedcruisefan]

So that's one vote for Epicurean being better than MDR on PandO in its best days

 

I thought that must be the case but needs more feedback

 

One thing I can say with confidence is Epicurean beats the best speciality and also of course best current MDR on Royal Caribbean and Carnival ships

 

Can anyone on here compare Epicurean to the best dining on Princess or Celebrity?

[majortom10]

When P&O used to serve vegetables individually from serving dishes it wasnt true Silver Service in the real meaning just a poor imitation. I for one was happy to see it go as if you share a table which we liked to share on table of 6/8 if you were served first and by the time they had served 8 and then the same with potatoes by the time you starte3d your meal it was cold or at best lukewarm. Also whenever we had a curry for main course they always used to ask if you would like vegetables, sorry but cabbage and green beans dont go very well with curry. Much prefer the plated meals set up.

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 minute ago, majortom10 said:

When P&O used to serve vegetables individually from serving dishes it wasnt true Silver Service in the real meaning just a poor imitation. I for one was happy to see it go as if you share a table which we liked to share on table of 6/8 if you were served first and by the time they had served 8 and then the same with potatoes by the time you starte3d your meal it was cold or at best lukewarm. Also whenever we had a curry for main course they always used to ask if you would like vegetables, sorry but cabbage and green beans dont go very well with curry. Much prefer the plated meals set up.

Epicurean 2 MDR Glory Days 0

[majortom10]

The best speciality restaurant I have been lucky enough to eat in on numerous occasions on P&O was XV11 on Azura, Excellent service, meal and lovely restaurant.

Edited April 21, 2023 by majortom10

[Peanut006]

Love Epicurean but also think Wonderland on Royal Caribbean is fab and Chops on Royal too 

 

Michelle

[Dermotsgirl]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So that's one vote for Epicurean being better than MDR on PandO in its best days

 

I thought that must be the case but needs more feedback

 

One thing I can say with confidence is Epicurean beats the best speciality and also of course best current MDR on Royal Caribbean and Carnival ships

 

Can anyone on here compare Epicurean to the best dining on Princess or Celebrity?

I think you may be asking people to compare an apple to an orange. Both are fruits, but are completely different .

 

Likewise, as Selbourne said, Epicurean and the MDR of 20 years ago aren’t comparable.

 

Epicurean is a small restaurant with food cooked to order, MDR, both now and 20 years ago is/was mass catering in a large dining room, although 20 years ago it was done to a very high standard. 
 

Both are eating venues, but apart from that different just like an apple and orange. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Dermotsgirl

[Dermotsgirl]

31 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

When P&O used to serve vegetables individually from serving dishes it wasnt true Silver Service in the real meaning just a poor imitation. I for one was happy to see it go as if you share a table which we liked to share on table of 6/8 if you were served first and by the time they had served 8 and then the same with potatoes by the time you starte3d your meal it was cold or at best lukewarm. Also whenever we had a curry for main course they always used to ask if you would like vegetables, sorry but cabbage and green beans dont go very well with curry. Much prefer the plated meals set up.

By the end of so called silver service, the meal was almost fully plated, and the waiter was just plonking a spud and a sprout on the plate. Like you, I prefer the fully plated approach 

[Selbourne]

39 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Epicurean 2 MDR Glory Days 0

I think you are being a bit mischievous, on your never ending crusade to tell us all why we should all agree with your opinion that everything now is better than it once was 😉 

 

As Dermotsgirl and I have both said, Epicurean and MDR are not remotely comparable. One is an extra cost, high quality, speciality fine dining restaurant. The other is (and always was) the included (no extra charge) ‘default’ mass dining option. Keep in mind that whilst many of us love the speciality restaurants, there is a very sizeable number of passengers who never use them. They have booked an all inclusive holiday and refuse to pay extra for a meal in one restaurant, when they can get a meal for nothing in another. 
 

The true comparison therefore is MDR now versus MDR then. Whilst I freely admit that I have no problem with plated meals, all other aspects have gone backwards (choice, number of ‘special’ dinner menus, portion sizes, lunch menus, wine waiters etc) as described in my post. 
 

So, if you really have to have a scoring system, for me it’s MDR Glory Days 1, MDR Now 0.

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So that's one vote for Epicurean being better than MDR on PandO in its best days

 

I thought that must be the case but needs more feedback

 

One thing I can say with confidence is Epicurean beats the best speciality and also of course best current MDR on Royal Caribbean and Carnival ships

 

Can anyone on here compare Epicurean to the best dining on Princess or Celebrity?

Yes, Celebrity and every one especially Eden is better in my opinion!  In fact the Greek and French themed included MDR ran Epicurean pretty close.  Raw on 5 is the best seafood restaurant I've come across at sea although it is very much a crustacean fest.  

 

I love Epicurean and always dine there at least twice on a week cruise and specifically have my Christmas dinner there with the upgraded wines.   I would however go to Eden every day if I could!

[Jennizor]

We have never used the Epicurean, only because we have looked at the menu (and seen photos on here) and there is far too much for me. My appetite is not great anymore so it would be wasteful for us. The photos look great however. We will therefore use the Limelight Club,Glasshouse, Sindhu, Chefs Table and the Olive Grove and MDR for the rest of our evenings. 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

By the end of so called silver service, the meal was almost fully plated, and the waiter was just plonking a spud and a sprout on the plate. Like you, I prefer the fully plated approach 

Having started our cruising on Princess we were very happy when P&O eventually followed their example and went to fully plated meals. The separate vegetable service always felt false to us.

[Interestedcruisefan]

11 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I think you are being a bit mischievous, on your never ending crusade to tell us all why we should all agree with your opinion that everything now is better than it once was 😉 

 

As Dermotsgirl and I have both said, Epicurean and MDR are not remotely comparable. One is an extra cost, high quality, speciality fine dining restaurant. The other is (and always was) the included (no extra charge) ‘default’ mass dining option. Keep in mind that whilst many of us love the speciality restaurants, there is a very sizeable number of passengers who never use them. They have booked an all inclusive holiday and refuse to pay extra for a meal in one restaurant, when they can get a meal for nothing in another. 
 

The true comparison therefore is MDR now versus MDR then. Whilst I freely admit that I have no problem with plated meals, all other aspects have gone backwards (choice, number of ‘special’ dinner menus, portion sizes, lunch menus, wine waiters etc) as described in my post. 
 

So, if you really have to have a scoring system, for me it’s MDR Glory Days 1, MDR Now 0.

I guess I'm trying to confirm my suspicion that if you are prepared to pay extra for Epicurean (perhaps mixed in with the other better quality specialities) that the dining standards on P and O as well as facilities can all have improved from the halycon days even when MDR was at its best

 

My argument would then become that with the lower comparable prices nowadays to the past and the relatively cheap prices for adding speciality dining 

 

There really never has been a better time to cruise P and O

 

Other than if you are single and/or want to dine with the same group each night. Which I still totally understand. And remains a tradition of cruising. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

11 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Yes, Celebrity and every one especially Eden is better in my opinion!  In fact the Greek and French themed included MDR ran Epicurean pretty close.  Raw on 5 is the best seafood restaurant I've come across at sea although it is very much a crustacean fest.  

 

I love Epicurean and always dine there at least twice on a week cruise and specifically have my Christmas dinner there with the upgraded wines.   I would however go to Eden every day if I could!

Food sounds great on Celebrity then. Sounds like a cruise line we will have to try one day

 

I know the cruises themselves are more expensive. 

 

Are those restaurants above included in the standard price or extra Megabear

 

If extra how do the prices compare to Epicurean?

Edited April 22, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

Which is the  cruise line where the price you pay determines the level of dining you receive?

 

Is that Cunard?

[AnnieC]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Which is the  cruise line where the price you pay determines the level of dining you receive?

 

Is that Cunard?

Yes.

[Bill Y]

13 hours ago, majortom10 said:

When P&O used to serve vegetables individually from serving dishes it wasnt true Silver Service in the real meaning just a poor imitation. I for one was happy to see it go as if you share a table which we liked to share on table of 6/8 if you were served first and by the time they had served 8 and then the same with potatoes by the time you starte3d your meal it was cold or at best lukewarm. Also whenever we had a curry for main course they always used to ask if you would like vegetables, sorry but cabbage and green beans dont go very well with curry. Much prefer the plated meals set up.

Yes the system was inflexible, fish & chips was served as a piece of fish with a garnish of four or five chips on a plate then the waiters would bring dishes of root vegetables. Yes you could ask then to go and get more chips. The good thing was the waiters had fewer tables to look after, you never sat for five or ten minutes looking at dirty plates.

[Selbourne]

11 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Which is the  cruise line where the price you pay determines the level of dining you receive?

 

Is that Cunard?

Yes. Britannia is their standard MDR. Britannia Club is next, which is a smaller dedicated MDR which offers the MDR menu plus some a La carte additions. Then there’s grill level, which is Princes Grill followed by the top level Queens Grill. The advantage of both Britannia Club and Grill restaurants is that you have your own personal table for your sole use throughout the whole cruise, for breakfast, lunch and dinner, plus you can dine whenever you like with no need to book. Ultimate Freedom Dining I guess. We have booked Britannia Club for our first Cunard Cruise next year, but it comes at a price that is comparable to a suite on P&O. However, we much prefer the sound of it to just being able to have breakfast in Epicurean, which is the sole dining privilege of a suite with P&O . 
 

You are, of course, quite correct that cruising with P&O is now cheaper than ever, particularly on the two biggest ships. Where I think we differ though is in accepting that price and value are two completely different things. I might be able to book a very cheap cruise now, but may not consider it to be such good ‘value’ as paying more for an enhanced experience. If P&O were to offer the equivalent of Club dining we would snap it up. Yes, it would be more expensive, but we would consider it to be better value!

Edited April 22, 2023 by Selbourne

[Selbourne]

Just now, Selbourne said:

Yes. Britannia is their standard MDR. Britannia Club is next, which is a smaller dedicated MDR which offers the MDR menu plus some a La carte additions. Then there’s grill level, which is Princes Grill followed by the top level Queens Grill. The advantage of both Britannia Club and Grill restaurants is that you have your own personal table for your sole use throughout the whole cruise, for breakfast, lunch and dinner, plus you can dine whenever you like with no need to book. Ultimate Freedom Dining I guess. We have booked Britannia Club for our first Cunard Cruise next year, but it comes at a price that is comparable to a suite on P&O. However, we much prefer the sound of it to just being able to have breakfast in Epicurean, which is the sole dining privilege of a suite with P&O . 
 

You are, of course, quite correct that cruising with P&O is now cheaper than ever, particularly on the two biggest ships. Where I think we differ though is in accepting that price and value are two completely different things. I might be able to book a very cheap cruise now, but may not consider it to be such good ‘value’ as paying more for an enhanced experience. If P&O were to offer the equivalent of Club dining we would snap it up. Yes, it would be more expensive, but we would consider it to be better value!

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

Just now, Selbourne said:

Yes. Britannia is their standard MDR. Britannia Club is next, which is a smaller dedicated MDR which offers the MDR menu plus some a La carte additions. Then theirs grill level, which is Princes Grill and then top level Queens Grill. The advantage of both Britannia Club and Grill restaurants is that you have your own personal table for your sole use throughout the whole cruise, for breakfast, lunch and dinner, plus you can dine whenever you like with no need to book. Ultimate Freedom Dining I guess. We have booked Britannia Club for our first Cunard Cruise next year, but it comes at a price that is comparable to a suite on P&O. However, we much prefer the sound of it to just being able to have breakfast in Epicurean, which is the sole dining privilege of a suite with P&O . 
 

You are, of course, quite correct that cruising with P&O is now cheaper than ever, particularly on the two biggest ships. Where I think we differ though is in accepting that price and value are two completely different things. I might be able to book a very cheap cruise now, but may not consider it to be such good ‘value’ as paying more for an enhanced experience. If P&O were to offer the equivalent of Club dining we would snap it up. Yes, it would be more expensive, but we would consider it to be better value!

I wouldn't like Cunard then 

 

I like to get the cheapest cabin but am then happy to pay for the best dining and drinks experiences available on a ship

 

Doesn't look like that's possible on Cunard

 

On P and O I don't feel I'm missing out on anything and once I'm out of the cabin I can have the best of everything available if I'm willing to pay

 

I like being in that position

 

On Cunard it sounds like I would effectively be 3rd class?

 

And I cant pay extra once on the ship to enjoy same dining as effectively first class?

[Interestedcruisefan]

4 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Yes. Britannia is their standard MDR. Britannia Club is next, which is a smaller dedicated MDR which offers the MDR menu plus some a La carte additions. Then theirs grill level, which is Princes Grill and then top level Queens Grill. The advantage of both Britannia Club and Grill restaurants is that you have your own personal table for your sole use throughout the whole cruise, for breakfast, lunch and dinner, plus you can dine whenever you like with no need to book. Ultimate Freedom Dining I guess. We have booked Britannia Club for our first Cunard Cruise next year, but it comes at a price that is comparable to a suite on P&O. However, we much prefer the sound of it to just being able to have breakfast in Epicurean, which is the sole dining privilege of a suite with P&O . 
 

You are, of course, quite correct that cruising with P&O is now cheaper than ever, particularly on the two biggest ships. Where I think we differ though is in accepting that price and value are two completely different things. I might be able to book a very cheap cruise now, but may not consider it to be such good ‘value’ as paying more for an enhanced experience. If P&O were to offer the equivalent of Club dining we would snap it up. Yes, it would be more expensive, but we would consider it to be better value!

I want the best possible dining on a ship at times and I am prepared to sacrifice the standard of cabin to be able to pay for it every night if I wanted it. However we don't need best dining every night normally

 

Even dining well every night on P and O I still feel it's a cheap holiday 

 

Compared to what we pay for hotels, great dining and theatre etc in the real world

 

Which is going through the roof at the moment

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I wouldn't like Cunard then 

 

I like to get the cheapest cabin but am then happy to pay for the best dining and drinks experiences available on a ship

 

Doesn't look like that's possible on Cunard

 

On P and O I don't feel I'm missing out on anything and once I'm out of the cabin I can have the best of everything available if I'm willing to pay

 

I like being in that position

 

On Cunard it sounds like I would effectively be 3rd class?

 

And I cant pay extra once on the ship to enjoy same dining as effectively first class?

Correct, although you wouldn’t be in 3rd class, you’d be in steerage 😂 

[Interestedcruisefan]

Just now, Selbourne said:

Correct, although you wouldn’t be in 3rd class, you’d be in steerage 😂 

Do you have to wear rags on formal night when you  are in  steerage?

 

Lol

[Megabear2]

15 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Food sounds great on Celebrity then. Sounds like a cruise line we will have to try one day

 

I know the cruises themselves are more expensive. 

 

Are those restaurants above included in the standard price or extra Megabear

 

If extra how do the prices compare to Epicurean?

On the Edge class vessels there are four MDRs, these are small intimate spaces not great huge affairs.  Each of these four restaurants has a different menu/food type ie Italian, steak house, Greek and French.  On top of this there are 5 additional restaurants you can buy a dining package for or buy on a single basis. There is also the Dinner on the Edge which utilises the Magic Carpet and Raw on 5 which are not available as part of the package.  

 

They aren't cheap, I recall around $60pp if booked individually, but the packages work out to around $45 a meal.  If you took the package the gratuity which Celebrity charge at 20% is included.

 

However the dining package is very often given away in your booking along with OBC, wifi and the drinks package.  We had this last year and have it for Christmas as well.  The lead price is however far higher than P&O.  Cruising with my husband or a friend I'd choose Celebrity over P&O for the food, cruising alone I'd choose P&O.  That said I'd return to Cunard alone or with my husband and the food there is very good at the included level.

 

Unlike Selbourne I've sailed with Cunard for many years and don't really rate Club Britannia for value although it remains to be seen what it offers on QA.  If I was going to spend lots of money based on the dining experience it would have to br the Grills every time. You need to remember the current three Queens are dignified older ladies offering a calm and traditional experience and I have a feeling most definitely not your cup of tea.

 

 

[majortom10]

36 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I guess I'm trying to confirm my suspicion that if you are prepared to pay extra for Epicurean (perhaps mixed in with the other better quality specialities) that the dining standards on P and O as well as facilities can all have improved from the halycon days even when MDR was at its best

 

My argument would then become that with the lower comparable prices nowadays to the past and the relatively cheap prices for adding speciality dining 

 

There really never has been a better time to cruise P and O

 

Other than if you are single and/or want to dine with the same group each night. Which I still totally understand. And remains a tradition of cruising. 

No you are totally wrong. The food available in MDR is a poor reflection on what was available when we started cruising on P&O in 2000. Then there was not the availability or choice of speciality restaurants as there is now. The main reason of popularity of speciality restaurants now is because people like the choice and some are prepared to pay extra for better quality food than you get in MDR.

 

With your reference of now being a better time to travel with P&O I don't think prices in 2023 will be the norm in the future. Prices on Aurora/Arcadia are not particularly cheap and not good value as they are similar to Cunard's QV who are far superior. P&O are struggling to fill Iona because of its repeated 7nt cruises to Norway and that is why there are cheap 7nt Saver prices but they don't suit everyone.

[Interestedcruisefan]

20 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

On the Edge class vessels there are four MDRs, these are small intimate spaces not great huge affairs.  Each of these four restaurants has a different menu/food type ie Italian, steak house, Greek and French.  On top of this there are 5 additional restaurants you can buy a dining package for or buy on a single basis. There is also the Dinner on the Edge which utilises the Magic Carpet and Raw on 5 which are not available as part of the package.  

 

They aren't cheap, I recall around $60pp if booked individually, but the packages work out to around $45 a meal.  If you took the package the gratuity which Celebrity charge at 20% is included.

 

However the dining package is very often given away in your booking along with OBC, wifi and the drinks package.  We had this last year and have it for Christmas as well.  The lead price is however far higher than P&O.  Cruising with my husband or a friend I'd choose Celebrity over P&O for the food, cruising alone I'd choose P&O.  That said I'd return to Cunard alone or with my husband and the food there is very good at the included level.

 

Unlike Selbourne I've sailed with Cunard for many years and don't really rate Club Britannia for value although it remains to be seen what it offers on QA.  If I was going to spend lots of money based on the dining experience it would have to br the Grills every time. You need to remember the current three Queens are dignified older ladies offering a calm and traditional experience and I have a feeling most definitely not your cup of tea.

 

 

I actually like tradition and elegance but  I realise there's a high cost attached. I love the restaurant scenes in the film Titanic. And the hotel and restaurant scenes in the  Agatha Christie films. There's a hotel in Burgh Island ive got my eye on that recreates that tradition (Agatha Christie used to write her books there) but that won't be cheap

 

We've just spent silly money on 3 amazing nights in the Scottish Highlands in a really traditional luxury Hotel. So we do like tradition and high quality when the time Is right

 

Want to do Orient Express or similar at some stage as well

 

We've done afternoon tea at the Balmoral Hotel and the Ritz etc

 

And have paid silly money to enjoy fine dining at some of the most traditional and also contemporary restaurants and Hotels in the world

 

But as ive said I couldn't enjoy a cruise thinking that I've not got access to the best dining options because of my initial cabin choice

 

Hence my questions above

 

Dining experiences we've paid for in the past (some at the most ridiculous cost especially in Dubai)

 

We can't afford to pay those prices 14 nights in a row to access

 

Whereas Epicurean on P and O 14 nights in a row for 2 people would only cost 700 pounds in total

 

That's a price I'm more than willing to pay if needed. But tbh we don't even need Epicurean every night. And the other specialities are cheaper. And some nights nothing beats a buffet/carvery or fish or chips. On or off a cruise.

 

700 pounds for 14 nights Epicurean for 2 is the cost of just 2  nights out at Michelin star restaurants in comparison

 

It's a great  price for quality dining and service

 

It's not Michelin but it's very good

 

Celebrity right now the price isn't right for us as we can get everything we want on P and O far cheaper

 

But never say never

 

Or maybe we never will. And instead save our more expensive spend for things we can't do on a P and O cruise

 

Like South African safaris and luxury trains and Machu Pichu etc or a more intimate River Cruise

 

Because I guess we are really happy with what we get on our big cruise holidays as they are

Edited April 22, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan