Here's a New One... "Celebrity Cruise Ship Kept Corpse in Drink Cooler"

[jsn55]

On 4/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, prmssk said:

So he had to have passed away in the first day or two of the cruise. 

 

I'm a little surprised they gave her a choice.  I would think it would be preferable for the cruise line to release the body to Puerto Rico (a US territory).  I also can't imagine going on with 6 more days of the cruise if my husband had just passed away.  I would think she would be able to fly home faster from Puerto Rico even with dealing with getting her husband's body cleared.

I agree with you about not giving the poor widow any choice.  Whomever made that decision will certainly have learned a lesson in taking charge.  Of course, they'll no longer have a job, so perhaps it won't matter..  

 

[CaroleSS]

5 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Serious question, is burial at sea an option here if surviving spouse agrees? I’m guessing no, logistics and liability reasons I would assume would prevent. 

I actually thought the same thing, but can think of several issues (mostly legal ones):

1-no official certificate of death, i.e. cause of death, certifying MD (unless the ships doctor can do that?)

2-re: death certificate, what "country" (other details) would be listed.....and would it have to be filed once they arrive back in home port (without the accompanying body)

3-I don't suspect they have a crematorium aboard and I'm pretty sure it isn't possible to just pitch the body overboard, so not exactly sure how the burial would occur.

 

I'm with you that a burial at sea would be a good alternative, but as you mention logistical and liability (and legal) reasons would likely prevent one.

[SPacificbound]

7 minutes ago, jsn55 said:

I agree with you about not giving the poor widow any choice.  Whomever made that decision will certainly have learned a lesson in taking charge.  Of course, they'll no longer have a job, so perhaps it won't matter..  

 

They did give her a choice, and she chose that she and late husband would stay on the ship.

[CaroleSS]

If you think about it, the cost of repatriating the body fro Puerto Rico would not be cheap. 
 

I can only imagine the Captain talking with the widow and telling her not only is her husband is dead, but it will likely cost her $5-6,000 to have the body sent back home. If she did not have insurance, that, plus the cost of a funeral back home, might be a financial hardship.

 

BUT....given that he knew the morgue wasn't functional, he should not have given her any choice....but it is hard to NOT think with your heart at such times.

[jsn55]

5 minutes ago, SPacificbound said:

They did give her a choice, and she chose that she and late husband would stay on the ship.

Yes, therein lies the problem.  She should have been informed how to deal with the situation in the best way, not given a choice.  The Captain should have taken charge of the situation and guided her through the procedures.  Someone from the cruiseline should have flown to PR to meet her and help deal with it all.    

Edited April 25, 2023 by jsn55

[CaroleSS]

4 minutes ago, SPacificbound said:

They did give her a choice, and she chose that she and late husband would stay on the ship.

Do you think the outcome would have been different had the morgue been functional? The body might have experiences "some" issues, but I think the decision to store the body in a food locker is the deciding factor.

 

BUT, if the locker was empty and the same temperature s the morgue "would" have been, then that's a different story. I need more details!

[kay1864]

2 hours ago, CaroleSS said:

given that he knew the morgue wasn't functional

Do we know that’s the case? Or is it possible that they first put the body in the morgue, then the morgue equipment broke down?

[NMTraveller]

4 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Do we know that’s the case? Or is it possible that they first put the body in the morgue, then the morgue equipment broke down?

Hmmm.  The morgue normally has 3 to 5 coolers.  You mean all of them broke down?

[kay1864]

49 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

The morgue normally has 3 to 5 coolers.  You mean all of them broke down?

It’s certainly possible, if they all are refrigerated or whatever from the same control unit. 

[Bo1953]

14 hours ago, jsn55 said:

Yes, therein lies the problem.  She should have been informed how to deal with the situation in the best way, not given a choice.  The Captain should have taken charge of the situation and guided her through the procedures.  Someone from the cruise line should have flown to PR to meet her and help deal with it all.    

While I do not believe that this is SOP for any cruise line, regardless, family members should have been called by the wife to help out in the decision making process on what to do (since now they are all involved in the lawsuit).

 

I can hear it now, "they forced me off the ship in PR and I could not emotionally handle it... etc." damn if they do, damn if they do not!!!

 

Gave her choices and she picked one, not good in the long run, but she chose...

 

Feel bad for her situation BUT if she, possibly, chose not to call family with the choices at hand to get input..... and if she could not articulate those choices clearly I Am sure that someone from X would speak with them to clarify.

 

"I was confused..." is not a defense, IMO, in these types of situations, especially with support from ship staff and family, available.

 

Dice were rolled and they were not snake eyes or a pair of 12's....

 

In health and bon voyage

 

[Bo1953]

14 hours ago, CaroleSS said:

If you think about it, the cost of repatriating the body fro Puerto Rico would not be cheap. 
 

I can only imagine the Captain talking with the widow and telling her not only is her husband is dead, but it will likely cost her $5-6,000 to have the body sent back home. If she did not have insurance, that, plus the cost of a funeral back home, might be a financial hardship.

 

BUT....given that he knew the morgue wasn't functional, he should not have given her any choice....but it is hard to NOT think with your heart at such times.

Another reason to have travel insurance, as the policy would have enough coverage to repatriate...

 

That would have been the most economical option, IMO, then again hindsight...

 

Rabbit hole: were he to survive the heart attack and was medevacked to the nearest hospital in the Caribbean, the cry would be I want him to go to a hospital in FL for treatment and when she heard the cost, then all heck would be given as to their rights as Americans and etc... no win in that case, unless insurance was purchased!!!

 

In health and bon voyage

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 minute ago, Bo1953 said:

Another reason to have travel insurance, as the policy would have enough coverage to repatriate...

 

That would have been the most economical option, IMO, then again hindsight...

 

Rabbit hole: were he to survive the heart attack and was medevacked to the nearest hospital in the Caribbean, the cry would be I want him to go to a hospital in FL for treatment and when she heard the cost, then all heck would be given as to their rights as Americans and etc... no win in that case, unless insurance was purchased!!!

 

In health and bon voyage

You do have to your due diligence with insurance as simply having a random policy might not cover every situation.  This is true in the US with health insurance 

[Bo1953]

14 hours ago, jsn55 said:

I agree with you about not giving the poor widow any choice.  Whomever made that decision will certainly have learned a lesson in taking charge.  Of course, they'll no longer have a job, so perhaps it won't matter..  

I do not agree with this assessment in terms of not offering a choice, we have always held the option of choices dear and the hard learned lesson of not having a choice is more dire than having one for most Americans.

 

Just my thoughts on the situation...

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

1 minute ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

You do have to your due diligence with insurance as simply having a random policy might not cover every situation.  This is true in the US with health insurance 

nag you are, as usual, correct on this point, yet every policy I have purchased from different insurers, always had a repatriation clause and payment schedule.

 

Not that it would be cheaper to not have it...

 

In health and bon voyage

[Charles4515]

21 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

”The morgue broke, our engineers worked day and night to fix it but were unable to as they needed additional parts…

That is actually the reality of todays world. No one carries many spare parts. Parts are ordered. At the last two condos if the buildings elevator broke it would take a week or two to get parts. if the garage door broke it would take two weeks to fix because the parts needed had to be ordered. Certainly there was no expectation that the morgues refrigeration would fail. 

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Bo1953 said:

I can hear it now, "they forced me off the ship in PR and I could not emotionally handle it... etc." damn if they do, damn if they do not!!!

Everyone is different but I could not have emotionally handled staying on the ship. Since it was San Juan not Timbuktu I think I would have opted to get off with the remains and fly back. 

[Bo1953]

4 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Everyone is different but I could not have emotionally handled staying on the ship. Since it was San Juan not Timbuktu I think I would have opted to get off with the remains and fly back. 

c4 - I understand that for sure... yet for me while I believe I could handle it okay (after a few bourbons) would prefer it be Timbuktu as the decision would be easier, what is most expedient way to handle my emotions and the body, including leaving it there....

 

But I always have travel insurance so as it is not a real issue for processing...

 

Salud and bon voayge

[wcook]

Unpopular opinion. It’s a dead body. Worm food. If it were me, toss me in the ocean. So I guess fish food, not worm food. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

7 minutes ago, wcook said:

Unpopular opinion. It’s a dead body. Worm food. If it were me, toss me in the ocean. So I guess fish food, not worm food. 

I respect the deceased and their families wishes not to mention they may have paid for or inherited a burial plot.  For myself however, I agree with you; if I die at sea, perform a burial at sea

[jsn55]

11 minutes ago, wcook said:

Unpopular opinion. It’s a dead body. Worm food. If it were me, toss me in the ocean. So I guess fish food, not worm food. 

I agree with you, and yeah, I agree that it's an unpopular opinion.  Not sure why people don't understand that your soul lives on when your body is dead.  It's not a difficult concept. 

[Charles4515]

52 minutes ago, jsn55 said:

I agree with you, and yeah, I agree that it's an unpopular opinion.  Not sure why people don't understand that your soul lives on when your body is dead.  It's not a difficult concept. 

You don't understand that there are different beliefs? That is not a difficult concept. 

[debbie311]

I can see where the widow was probably in some form of shock and the easier choice was to just keep her husband on the ship. I suppose if someone in authority on the ship told me there was a morgue I would probably think things are going to be ok.

 

I'm not a believer of viewing a dead body, so this wouldn't be so much of an issue for me.  The times I have seen a dead body in a casket they did not look the same and I wouldn't want to remember them that way.  But I know there are different cultures that definitely want to see the body laid out. In fact, my extended family who were from the South also took pictures.  Uh, no, just no.

 

On a separate note, I don't think anyone has mentioned the ickiness of having beverages stored next to a dead body.  Or were they removed?  If I were a passenger on that cruise I would be feeling kind of squeamish about that.

 

[Charles4515]

2 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

I'm not a believer of viewing a dead body, so this wouldn't be so much of an issue for me.  The times I have seen a dead body in a casket they did not look the same and I wouldn't want to remember them that way.  But I know there are different cultures that definitely want to see the body laid out. In fact, my extended family who were from the South also took pictures.  Uh, no, just no.

 

Viewings make me uncomfortable but out of respect I have attended a few. As you say different cultures and beliefs. When my father passed it was unexpected so I had them open the casket for me for closure but we had no viewing. When my mother passed I was there. No viewing, it is not our culture. I have attended a couple of funerals where the body had already been cremated. There was just an urn. There are many different beliefs. 

[mom says]

2 hours ago, debbie311 said:

On a separate note, I don't think anyone has mentioned the ickiness of having beverages stored next to a dead body.  Or were they removed?  If I were a passenger on that cruise I would be feeling kind of squeamish about that.

In one of the articles I read, the funeral director who arrived to pick up the body stated that beverage cartons were stacked outside the cooler, IIRC. In any event, the beverages are all in containers, and wouldn't be in direct contact with the body, which was inside a body bag; so it's not as if there would be a contamination issue.

[mayleeman]

According to dozens of sites reachable with a simple Google search, cruise ships are required to have a morgue. The logical conclusion is that having a morgue can provide a means for preserving the body to allow for post-mortem investigation into causes of death. 

 

A morgue that isn't working properly is just a room. We don't know how the relocation occurred. Discovery will be interesting.

 

More important to the decomposition, however, is whether the ship contacted any coroner or funeral homes to determine what to do once they knew the morgue had failed. If they had, they likely would have learned that a body in a morgue is preserved at near freezing temperatures, and then they could have adjusted the chosen spot accordingly. That should have been adequate for the time remaining to avoid the severe decomposition alleged here.

 

I suspect that once the body was in the body bag, no one ever checked it for condition and that they just assumed it would be ok. Who would even think to check it, or want to?