Boarding closed loop tomorrow with ID+birth certificate, but lost ID today!

[Another_Critic]

2 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

I have zero memory these days for details like this.  My license has the gold star on it.  According to PA's website, that means that I got the Real ID license.  If that is so, then I just walked out with it.  THAT I remember.

Yeah, I walked out with my Real ID in Jan. 2020 (I went to a REAL ID Center), but not all PA DMV can print them.  Did you go to KoP?

 

• Visit any PennDOT Driver License Center to have your documents verified and imaged, and receive your REAL ID within 15 business days
• Visit a REAL ID Center to have your documents verified and imaged and receive your REAL ID at the time of service

[Ret MP]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

It says accepted. It does not say required. Some countries do require 6 months so they are covering themselves. If you read further down it mentions some cruises only require a birth certificate and photo ID. Think logically. If you can cruise with a birth certificate they are not going to turn away a valid passport on those itineraries. I traveled internationally on a cruise with Royal with a passport that had five months left because the year when I renewed I had a lot of travel and that was the best window. No problem at all as none all the countries only required a valid passport. Most people are not very careful so they should send their renewal in a year. before it expires. 

1.  If it doesn't say "Accepted" then the rest are not "Accepted".  Do you think they are going to list every/all unacceptable forms of ID?  I don't think so.  EDITED IN:  It doesn't say "Required" because they aren't, if you want to use a Birth Certificate and DL on a "closed Loop" cruise, you can.  If you use a "Passport" it must meet the minimum requirements.

2.  Yes, some countries do not allow you in their country with less than 6 months remaining, some are just 3 on your passport.  But, that doesn't have anything to do with RCCL's policy which is stand-alone.  And yes, RCCL will allow you to cruise on U.S. Homeport "closed loop" itineraries with just a Birth Certificate and DL (Government ID).  But, if you aren't using a Birth Certificate and DL, your Passport must meet their minimum requirements.  

3.  I can not and will not justify RCCL's policies.  Why won't they let someone on that doesn't have at least 6 months left on their Passport but let someone on with just a birth certificate and DL?  I don't know.  That's not the purpose of my post.  I'm only showing what RCCL's policy is.  I'm not saying that I do or don't agree with it

4.  I stated clearly a couple of times that I will not discuss/debate what some people have gotten away with because of politics/lazy or untrained personnel/being good at hiding things/bad management/looking the other way/whatever.

5.  On my browser it has a "find" feature.  I did that with the page that is linked to.  The words "Birth Certificate" is used 10 times.  7 of which pertain to sailings (closed loop sailings) that depart from a U.S. Home Port, three of which are about Puerto Rican Citizens and the date their Birth Certificates were issued.  The last 3 have nothing to do with this. 

 

So, I'm not interested in playing word games (Acceptable).  I am only posting RCCL's written policy.   And as stated, I'm not going to try to justify what RCCL does or doesn't do, and I'm not going to discuss what Joe or Mary got away with 5 years ago.  It is what it is.  

 

And the ability to use a Birth Certificate and DL is an authorization given by the:

 

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-74?language=en_US

 

Most cruises beginning and ending in the same location are considered "closed-loop," meaning they begin and end at the same port in the United States and travel within the Western Hemisphere. For instance, if you board a cruise ship at Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and after visiting at least one foreign port of call, such as Bermuda, or Cancun, and return to Fort Lauderdale, you have taken a closed loop cruise. However, if you board a cruise ship in San Diego, California, sail through the Panama Canal (stopping at a foreign port during the cruise), and end the cruise in Miami, Florida, you have not taken a closed loop cruise. The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) requires you to travel with a valid passport (including infants).

U.S. citizens on closed-loop cruises will be able to enter or depart the country with proof of citizenship, such as an Enhanced Driver's License (EDL), a government-issued birth certificate (issued by the Vital Records Department in the state where he or she was born) or passport, and if 16 or older, a government issued driver's license, picture ID, denoting photo, name, and date of birth. The Enhanced Driver's License (EDL) allows you to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean. The EDL is only accepted at land and sea border crossings, not for air travel. An U.S. citizen under the age of 16 will be able to present either an original, notarized or certified copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issues by Department of State, (DOS) and/or Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).

 

BTW, there is no 6 month requirement given by the U.S. Government.  It is discussed somewhere in the government's websites and it just states that some countries require 3 or 6 months.   It also states that "some cruise lines" may have a 6 month requirement.  Apparently, RCCL does.  

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Ret MP

[Charles4515]

22 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

BTW, there is no 6 month requirement given by the U.S. Government.  It is discussed somewhere in the government's websites and it just states that some countries require 3 or 6 months.   It also states that "some cruise lines" may have a 6 month requirement.  Apparently, RCCL does.  

No kidding. That should make you think instead of having a one track mind on this subject. Whether RCI will let you board with whatever documants depends on the itinerary. But some like to see all that is published on cruise line websites in black and white. They are not going to list every country and itinerary because there are multiple  possibilities so they publish a general statement of what is acceptable. That does not mean it is required on every cruise. 

[Ret MP]

4 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

No kidding. That should make you think instead of having a one track mind on this subject. Whether RCI will let you board with whatever documants depends on the itinerary. But some like to see all that is published on cruise line websites in black and white. They are not going to list every country and itinerary because there are multiple  possibilities so they publish a general statement of what is acceptable. That does not mean it is required on every cruise. 

You are right, I do look at policies/procedures/laws/rules in black and white until something else comes along to gray it up a little with facts.  You are also right, "itinerary" has a lot to do with the documents required/acceptable.  But, the title of this thread includes and is limited to "Close Loop" cruises.  A Birth Certificate and DL are acceptable.  But, if you are using other than a BC and DL, you must use a Passport and it must meet RCCL's minimum requirements, by policy (note, I didn't say what you can get away with).  

 

BTW, if you look hard enough, you'll find which countries require 6-month expiration.  RCCL lists Columbia as one of them.  Again, keep in mind, we are talking about close loop cruises, I can tell you that Cuba is one of them too.  But, RCCL doesn't cruise there, so no need to list it.  I can't think of any Close Loop sailings that RCCL goes to that has a 6-month requirement, other than possibly Columbia.  I've been to most Caribbean popular ports of call and I have never heard that a Passport is even required to get in.  So, why list them.?  If you aren't on a close loop cruise, you have to have a passport and RCCL requires, by policy, that it must expire at least 6 months after you return to the U.S. 

 

So, just answer me this, does RCCL, by policy, require that U.S. Citizens using a Passport as a cruise document, have at least 6 months validity beyond return to the U.S?  Keep in mind that that is all I'm trying to get across.  Why?  As usual, I'd hate to be the one or cause someone else by not providing what is the written policy.  It can be costly and embarrassing.  Sure, policies are ignored, or whatever, but am I going to bet thousands of dollars on it?  Hell no!  The way I figure it, if you follow the written (the black and white written) policy, you can't go wrong.  

 

Once again, forgive me for providing a good deed (and you know what they say about good deeds), again.  

 

I'm not right 100% of the time and I've proved it.  But, I try.  And I don't think I'm wrong here.  

[Ourusualbeach]

4 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

That works yet supposedly a valid passport has to not expire within the next six months?😐

Myth.

 

There are only a very few countries that actually have that requirement but because of that everyone involved in travel lists recommending that your passport be valid for 6 months as a CYA.  If you look at Roysls site it says recommends and not requires.

 

We flew and sailed this past March and my wife's expired 5 months from the date we sailed.  

[Ourusualbeach]

9 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

So, just answer me this, does RCCL, by policy, require that U.S. Citizens using a Passport as a cruise document, have at least 6 months validity beyond return to the U.S

They recommend but not require.

 

Even for non us citizens it is not required.  We flew and sailed last month and my wife's passport expires in 5 months.

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Ourusualbeach said:

They recommend but not require.

 

Even for non us citizens it is not required.  We flew and sailed last month and my wife's passport expires in 5 months.

I haven't seen the word "recommended" in the policy! 

 

And for the last time, I am not going to discuss/debate what Joe or Mary got away with.  And I'm talking about RCCL's policy, not any other company unless it is RCCL, or country.  This is an RCCL policy.  

[Ourusualbeach]

8 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I haven't seen the word "recommended" in the policy! 

 

And for the last time, I am not going to discuss/debate what Joe or Mary got away with.  And I'm talking about RCCL's policy, not any other company unless it is RCCL, or country.  This is an RCCL policy.  

I just looked and they have changed the language in their policy from what it was in January.  At the time I was looking it definitely stated recommended as we knew that my wife's passport expired.  We were even able to check in on the app using her passport.

 

I suspect that the language changed with the introduction of the new cruise contract that was just released. 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Ourusualbeach

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I just looked and they have changed the language in their policy from what it was in January.  At the time I was looking it definitely stated recommended as we knew that my wife's passport expired.  We were even able to check in on the app using her passport.

 

 

Believe me, this isn't the first time I've had this discussion on the very subject and it's been in a few cruise social media sites going back for more than a couple of years.  It's one reason I had the various links of information available.  This keeps popping up every now and then.  Not as much as shorts in the MDR but often enough.  

[Ourusualbeach]

21 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Believe me, this isn't the first time I've had this discussion on the very subject and it's been in a few cruise social media sites going back for more than a couple of years.  It's one reason I had the various links of information available.  This keeps popping up every now and then.  Not as much as shorts in the MDR but often enough.  

This is taken directly off of Royal Caribbean's invoice for a cruise that was booked today.  Note the use of the word "recommend"

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Ourusualbeach

[Ret MP]

5 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

This is taken directly off of Royal Caribbean's invoice for a cruise that was booked today.  Note the use of the word "recommend"

 

Is that a policy?  

[Merion_Mom]

2 hours ago, Another_Critic said:

Yeah, I walked out with my Real ID in Jan. 2020 (I went to a REAL ID Center), but not all PA DMV can print them.  Did you go to KoP?

 

• Visit any PennDOT Driver License Center to have your documents verified and imaged, and receive your REAL ID within 15 business days
• Visit a REAL ID Center to have your documents verified and imaged and receive your REAL ID at the time of service

Yes, that's exactly where I went - the one next to Home Depot.  😄 😄 😄

[Ourusualbeach]

1 minute ago, Ret MP said:

Is that a policy?  

I would 100% take what is written on your booking invoice as policy as opposed to what is written in general terms in an FAQ section of the website. 

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I would 100% take what is written on your booking invoice as policy as opposed to what is written in general terms in an FAQ section of the website. 

Okay, so be it.  I totally and completely disagree.

 

However, using your train of thought, should I think something is allowed or not allowed because it isn't on the "Cruise Contract"?  Is a contract a policy?  Does the contract say how many bottles of wine you can bring aboard?  If you show up at the terminal with only 5 months left on your passport and you just happen to get one of those by-the-book guys who's been very well trained and he tells you that your passport, by policy, isn't acceptable, what's your argument? Do you tell him that the Contract "Recommends" A, but his retorts that the policy dictates "B"?  Don't get me wrong, I do believe you have a good argument and you may get away with it, they'll take pity on you.  But I bet the Contract changes, thereafter, really quickly.  

 

I think we all know that RCCL's, et al, have a hard time keeping up with their own hands.  The left has no idea what the right is doing.  But, the policy is the policy.  

 

Okay, the horse is dead enough, again. This case is closed unless something comes up to add material discussion. 

 

 

 

 

[fredflint]

I would make sure they have a police report or some documentation about the wallet being lost.

[Ret MP]

22 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Okay, so be it.  I totally and completely disagree.

 

However, using your train of thought, should I think something is allowed or not allowed because it isn't on the "Cruise Contract"?  Is a contract a policy?  Does the contract say how many bottles of wine you can bring aboard?  If you show up at the terminal with only 5 months left on your passport and you just happen to get one of those by-the-book guys who's been very well trained and he tells you that your passport, by policy, isn't acceptable, what's your argument? Do you tell him that the Contract "Recommends" A, but his retorts that the policy dictates "B"?  Don't get me wrong, I do believe you have a good argument and you may get away with it, they'll take pity on you.  But I bet the Contract changes, thereafter, really quickly.  

 

I think we all know that RCCL's, et al, have a hard time keeping up with their own hands.  The left has no idea what the right is doing.  But, the policy is the policy.  

 

Okay, the horse is dead enough, again. This case is closed unless something comes up to add material discussion. 

I made an error.  I called the "Invoice" a "Contract" a few times.  It's not a "Contract", at least according to you.  And there is a big difference.

 

[Ourusualbeach]

16 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Okay, so be it.  I totally and completely disagree.

 

However, using your train of thought, should I think something is allowed or not allowed because it isn't on the "Cruise Contract"?  Is a contract a policy?  Does the contract say how many bottles of wine you can bring aboard?  If you show up at the terminal with only 5 months left on your passport and you just happen to get one of those by-the-book guys who's been very well trained and he tells you that your passport, by policy, isn't acceptable, what's your argument? Do you tell him that the Contract "Recommends" A, but his retorts that the policy dictates "B"?  Don't get me wrong, I do believe you have a good argument and you may get away with it, they'll take pity on you.  But I bet the Contract changes, thereafter, really quickly.  

 

I think we all know that RCCL's, et al, have a hard time keeping up with their own hands.  The left has no idea what the right is doing.  But, the policy is the policy.  

 

Okay, the horse is dead enough, again. This case is closed unless something comes up to add material discussion. 

 

 

 

 

You are assuming that what is written in their FAQ's is policy.  It's not.  It's a CYA blanket statement so they don't need to go through every potential variation and continuously update their website as other countries policies change. Look on pretty much every TA's invoice and you will see the same thing.  

 

What is written on the invoice that is personslized to every guest with the details of their booking and a link to yje guest contract certainly takes precedence over a blanket statement in a FAQ's section.

 

 

[Ret MP]

9 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

You are assuming that what is written in their FAQ's is policy.  It's not.  It's a CYA blanket statement so they don't need to go through every potential variation and continuously update their website as other countries policies change. Look on pretty much every TA's invoice and you will see the same thing.  

 

What is written on the invoice that is personslized to every guest with the details of their booking and a link to yje guest contract certainly takes precedence over a blanket statement in a FAQ's section

I guess we have dialed this down to what the definition of is is.

 

BTW, I just looked at my so-called "Invoices" and they aren't even that, it's a "Booking Confirmation".  

 

 

[Tree_skier]

I would think what is written on the invoice would trump what it says on the website. No where in the new contract is there any language about passports.  

[blueslily]

6 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

I have had two Real ID licenses from two different states.I moved.  In neither state was I able to walk out with it. It was requred to be mailed to my street address as that was part of verifying residence for Real ID in those states. Perhaps Pennsylvania uses a different verification of address but not everyone in the US can walk out with a Real ID licence. 

 

Interesting. I walked out with mine on the Monday after my last a cruise, lol. Took me exactly 56 minutes for the entire process in the DMV that Monday. It's interesting how different states handle it differently.

[Ocean Boy]

10 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

It says accepted. It does not say required. 

But it doesn't say that a passport with less than 6 months remaining will also be accepted does it?

[Ocean Boy]

7 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

 

I suspect that the language changed with the introduction of the new cruise contract that was just released. 

 

You mean the contract that keeps getting longer and more complicated all for the purpose of reinforcing the notion that the customer has zero rights in any dispute with the cruise line?

[Ourusualbeach]

35 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

You mean the contract that keeps getting longer and more complicated all for the purpose of reinforcing the notion that the customer has zero rights in any dispute with the cruise line?

That pretty much sums it up.

[Ourusualbeach]

43 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

But it doesn't say that a passport with less than 6 months remaining will also be accepted does it?

I found what I was looking for.  On your booking confirmation that goes out to every passenger who books it clearly states recommended.

 

Not every passenger goes to the website to check for information.  With the booking confirmation every passenger is  being given the information required by the cruise line.

 

[A&L_Ont]

10 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Myth.

 

There are only a very few countries that actually have that requirement but because of that everyone involved in travel lists recommending that your passport be valid for 6 months as a CYA.  If you look at Roysls site it says recommends and not requires.

 

We flew and sailed this past March and my wife's expired 5 months from the date we sailed.  

 

We were on the same cruise and my passport was 5 months and 28 days from expiry. 

 

10 hours ago, Ret MP said:

I haven't seen the word "recommended" in the policy! 

 

And for the last time, I am not going to discuss/debate what Joe or Mary got away with.  And I'm talking about RCCL's policy, not any other company unless it is RCCL, or country.  This is an RCCL policy.  

 

I'm not Joe or Mary but an actual person here on CC, so please read my comment above.