To Plus or not to Plus.., our experience

[thermal]

On 5/6/2023 at 8:03 AM, Lady Arwen said:

 We booked it quite some time ago and in Canadian dollars, but I believe it was $50.00 Canadian per person per day.

If it was $50 Cdn per day, I would buy it in a heartbeat.  But $60 USD/day is a different story.  

[Buckeye10640]

20 hours ago, Expat Cruise said:

Addressing the costs of these packages. Does anyone think that the level of alcoholic drinks being offered in the packages is far too much? Every guest is free to drink whatever they want. But, with the daily drink number set so high that they are just encouraging excess alcohol drinking. Which for many reasons including passenger safety could be an issue. 

 

The NIH sets these levels as excessive drinking. For women, 4 or more drinks during a single occasion, or 8 drinks per week. For men, 5 or more drinks during a single occasion, or 15 drinks per week. Clearly, the packages reach the level that are excessive, 

 

Therefore, it is reasonable to assume most people will be nowhere near the daily limit. So why set package limits so high for the number of alcohol drinks?  Why not cut the drink numbers and offer a package that would appeal a better mass appeal? They could then offer a discount on the prices for those who have the packages and wanted to drink more package number, using the savings from the lower package prices. 

 

 

 

 

Why?  Perceived value and simplicity.  Even if I only really drink 2 alcohol drinks per day, I 'could'  have lots more...13 more in fact. Now some people will drink all 15, and some people will drink more than they want or need only because they can (I have traveled with one of those!). However, I would say that most will not come close to 15 and thats where Princess comes out ahead.  

[memoak]

28 minutes ago, thermal said:

If it was $50 Cdn per day, I would buy it in a heartbeat.  But $60 USD/day is a different story.  

That is one drink. How is that a different story ?

[Lady Arwen]

28 minutes ago, thermal said:

If it was $50 Cdn per day, I would buy it in a heartbeat.  But $60 USD/day is a different story.  

It was back when it was offered at $40.00 US per day, I believe….. just looked it up on my calendar and it came to $110.50 Canadian per day for both of us.  So, $55.00 pp/pd.  Not bad at all.

[memoak]

15 minutes ago, Buckeye10640 said:

Why?  Perceived value and simplicity.  Even if I only really drink 2 alcohol drinks per day, I 'could'  have lots more...13 more in fact. Now some people will drink all 15, and some people will drink more than they want or need only because they can (I have traveled with one of those!). However, I would say that most will not come close to 15 and thats where Princess comes out ahead.  

How does Princess come out ahead when I have 6-10 drinks a day. That is not close to 15 but I am paying Princess much less than if I had paid as I went ?   I never feel I am drinking more than I want 

[CruizinSusan70]

2 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

I get that to Plus or not Plus is a personal thing based on your life habits, etc, when on a cruise.  However, one doesn't need to be a teetotaler to justify no Plus.  For example, we BYOW and have Elite mini-bar benefit, so there are quite enough drinks to suit and purchasing the odd bar drink still leaves us ahead of the game.  Just wanted to point out that there are some non-teetotalers for whom the Plus math doesn't work.  We often have a drink while ashore and of course that comes out of pocket.  So, call us light drinkers and lump us in with the teetotaler crowd who don't need the Plus.

We are not wine drinkers and we have not reached Elite status so we get no reduced priced or comped drinks and WiFi.  Everybody's own consumption level as well as benefits received are of course the determining factor as to whether the Plus package brings value or not. 

Since we don't keep all of our eggs in the Princess basket, when comparing 60 pp per day for drinks, wifi and gratuities, it's substantially cheaper than what those same things would cost on Celebrity, Royal, NCL, MSC or Carnival.  So even though it's not a no brainer for some, it definitely is for us.

Edited June 7, 2023 by CruizinSusan70

[justafem]

We were perfectly happy with the coffee cards and the soda and more, buying our booze drinks when we wanted.  But when plus came out, we didn't have to worry about the 15 specialty coffees per cruise and could indulge repeatedly and we do.  I will happily drink 4-5 butter pecan lattes per day and 5+ bottles of water.  I also want a glass of wine with dinner, maybe a couple of drinks with a group or not.  I'll have drinks some days and go virgin another (depends on the size of my feet!) and it was only $40 a day!  So much value!  At $60 it's still worth it. 

 

For us it's not all about the booze.  We get the value in coffee, juice and bottles of water.  We used to spend about $15 per day with the coffee cards and soda and more package and curtailed my wanting more specialty coffees.  Or I bought them and paid extra.

 

So with WIFI and grats, it's only an extra $14 a day, which is truthfully 1 booze drink or 2 more coffees a day.  

 

I'm comfortable with that amount.  Actually happy, as I've cruised with other lines and their booze packages are out of what we'd spend alacarte.  I have a carnival in less than a month and their drink package is $1414.82 for 10 days, internet is $374.00, grats are $290.00 for a total of $2078.82.  While on princess plus is $1200 and includes all that.  Almost $900 difference.  And that's on every line.  

 

I don't feel that I'm losing value on a separately purchased WIFI, I bought it when it was minutes.  I bought it when it was unlimited and I wasn't elite.  And I've only had plus since I've been elite.  So I'm not getting the $7.50 value, per day.  ehhh. I'm not that worried about the pennies. 

 

But I can't understand the premier package! For $20 extra a day, we could eat in specialty dining every other day.  I'm not any kind of wine connoisseur, so that blows that thought. Pictures, woohoo!  I have inches of them from previous cruises.  And prizes, well, I do like to gamble, so there's that, but I'd be happier sticking money in a machine. 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by justafem

[MissP22]

15 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Many look at the 15 drink maximum as a goal, when in fact only 3 alcoholic drinks supplemented by coffees, waters and soda covers the package cost after WiFi/grats.

It does in my case as I don't drink that much coffee and very little soda and hardly use the terrible wi-fi. 

I bring lots of my own movies, couldn't care much about the news an only get spam as email. 

So basically the cost of the package is to pay for alcohol and gratuities.

That's a mighty expensive price to pay for only 4 drinks plus gratuities.

[PMGS247]

3 hours ago, MissP22 said:

It does in my case as I don't drink that much coffee and very little soda and hardly use the terrible wi-fi. 

I bring lots of my own movies, couldn't care much about the news an only get spam as email. 

So basically the cost of the package is to pay for alcohol and gratuities.

That's a mighty expensive price to pay for only 4 drinks plus gratuities.

 

This missed the point though...and you highlighted the phrase "Many look at the 15 drink maximum as a goal" in your response as if you were addressing that, but you weren't.  What you said is accurate...it is too expensive for 4 drinks, so you shouldn't get it...no one's trying to convince you that you should...but the point was you don't need 15.

 

Worst case - $60 factoring nothing else that is included and only purchasing the cheapest beer @ $7/beer.  Takes 8.6 beers to break even.  This is an insane way to calculate it and isn't even realistic to the most uneducated consumer, but even so, it's not even 2/3 of the maximum.

[JimmyVWine]

2 minutes ago, PMGS247 said:

Worst case - $60 factoring nothing else that is included and only purchasing the cheapest beer @ $7/beer.  Takes 8.6 beers to break even.

It's actually only 7.2 beers because a $7 beer will actually cost $8.26.  Under the worst case scenario you developed, the hypothetical customer is going to pay $0 in gratuities.  But even that penny-pincher cannot avoid the mandatory gratuity added to drinks!

[PMGS247]

5 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

It's actually only 7.2 beers because a $7 beer will actually cost $8.26.  Under the worst case scenario you developed, the hypothetical customer is going to pay $0 in gratuities.  But even that penny-pincher cannot avoid the mandatory gratuity added to drinks!

 

lol agreed....I'm trying my best to make the package look as bad as possible, but the math just isn't there.

[voljeep]

Can we 'basically state' that a $18 bottle of wine - retail price - would be $18 per drink (5 pours) on Princess?  Now that $18 glass would be an additional $3.54 with the PLUS package - so 3 glasses of $18 wine in PLUS would be equivalent to 3 x 18.54 = 55.62 and 3 x 21.24 = 63.72 without PLUS.

Note: at local today Bread and Butter Cab was BOGO free @ $17.99 + 7% sales tax ... no tip

 

$3.54 x 3 = $10.62 in addition to PLUS cost allocation for 'drinks' - say $45 pp pd = $50.62 - a 'savings' of $13.10 with PLUS - and not even factoring in waters, coffees, beers, toddies, highballs, martini's

[JimmyVWine]

3 minutes ago, voljeep said:

Can we 'basically state' that a $18 bottle of wine - retail price - would be $18 per drink (5 pours) on Princess?

A little lower.  From what I saw, bottles that would sell for $18 retail were priced out around $13-$15 on the ship.  So a bit lower than $18 with no extra cost incurred.  

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

Can we 'basically state' that a $18 bottle of wine - retail price - would be $18 per drink (5 pours) on Princess?  Now that $18 glass would be an additional $3.54 with the PLUS package - so 3 glasses of $18 wine in PLUS would be equivalent to 3 x 18.54 = 55.62 and 3 x 21.24 = 63.72 without PLUS.

Note: at local today Bread and Butter Cab was BOGO free @ $17.99 + 7% sales tax ... no tip

 

$3.54 x 3 = $10.62 in addition to PLUS cost allocation for 'drinks' - say $45 pp pd = $50.62 - a 'savings' of $13.10 with PLUS - and not even factoring in waters, coffees, beers, toddies, highballs, martini's

Get the point but Princess' high mark up on wine is not generally 5X retail.

 

I pulled up my PCL wine spreadsheet from last year and ran a new column.  Factored menu price divided by retail sticker price (usually TW).  So, did not factor in gratuity nor sales tax.  I think the last time I posted my wine analysis (bottle pricing only for BYOW comparisons), I stated the best values on the wine menu are generally the very high priced examples a their markups are only in the 10% - 20% range. 

 

Now if PCL pricing for WBTG of is much more than 5 glasses = 1 bottle, then of course, the factor increases if purchasing WBTG from PCL.  IMO, if a guest is NOT doing Plus/Premier, it should make more sense to purchase bottles and not WBTG.

 

Here are all the bottles with markup 4X or greater:

 

Bin	Wine	Region	St / Cntry	Price	w/Grat	US Retail	Sales Tax	w/Corkage	Savings
100	Attems Pinot Grigio	Friuli	IT	59	69.62	13.00	0.91	33.91	35.71	4.5
165	Dashwood Sauvignon Blanc	Marlborough	NZ	59	69.62	13.80	0.97	34.77	34.85	4.3
176	Saget La Perriere Petite Sauv Bl	Loire Vly	FR	45	53.10	11.00	0.77	31.77	21.33	4.1
225	Conundrum White	California	CA	63	74.34	13.00	0.91	33.91	40.43	4.8
325	Charles & Charles Rose	Columbia Vly	WA	47	55.46	11.00	0.77	31.77	23.69	4.3
540	Etude Lyric Pinot Noir	Carneros	CA	80	94.40	17.00	1.19	38.19	56.21	4.7
745	Los Vascos Dom Barons de Roth	Colchagua Vly	CH	46	54.28	10.50	0.74	31.24	23.04	4.4
765	Substance Cs Cabernet Sauvignon	Columbia Vly	WA	59	69.62	13.00	0.91	33.91	35.71	4.5
770	Rodney Strong Cabernet Sauv	Sonoma Vly	CA	65	76.70	13.00	0.91	33.91	42.79	5

Edited June 8, 2023 by Steelers36

[voljeep]

6 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

770

Rodney Strong Cabernet Sauv

Sonoma Vly

CA

65

76.70

13.00

0.91

33.91

42.79

5

Edited just now by Steelers36

how much is that currently "per glass" on Princess? - or is it only by the bottle?

[Steelers36]

8 minutes ago, voljeep said:

how much is that currently "per glass" on Princess? - or is it only by the bottle?

We would have to look at the menu(s) in order to determine if any of those are sold that way.  I have never analyzed WBTG pricing since that isn't the way to BYOW to the ship.  As you know, many of the WBTG selections are also on the wine list.  In fact, they all were until they started offering the "No Name" plonk for Plus package WBTG.

[JimmyVWine]

31 minutes ago, voljeep said:

how much is that currently "per glass" on Princess? - or is it only by the bottle?

This was the WBTG list at Vines, though as has been noted a number of times, the bar at Vines usually has many more bottles opened at any given time that are not listed on the published list.  I remember seeing Rodney Strong on the ship but can't recall if it was being poured by the glass.  Silverado was found around the ship at $18 per glass and is worth the $3 upcharge over the other Cabs we were finding by the glass.

 

 

[MissP22]

4 hours ago, PMGS247 said:

 

This missed the point though...and you highlighted the phrase "Many look at the 15 drink maximum as a goal" in your response as if you were addressing that, but you weren't.  What you said is accurate...it is too expensive for 4 drinks, so you shouldn't get it...no one's trying to convince you that you should...but the point was you don't need 15.

 

Worst case - $60 factoring nothing else that is included and only purchasing the cheapest beer @ $7/beer.  Takes 8.6 beers to break even.  This is an insane way to calculate it and isn't even realistic to the most uneducated consumer, but even so, it's not even 2/3 of the maximum.

In my case it just doesn't pay. It's more than I would care to drink no matter how you calculate it. 

I've decided on a different solution for the future which tailors the price to someone in my category. 

[voljeep]

2 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

So, did not factor in gratuity nor sales tax.  I think the last time I posted my wine analysis (bottle pricing only for BYOW comparisons),

how do you figure in your 'sweat equity' in getting those bottles to your cabin? - You can't just order from TW online and they show up in your cabin, correct?

[Steelers36]

54 minutes ago, voljeep said:

how do you figure in your 'sweat equity' in getting those bottles to your cabin? - You can't just order from TW online and they show up in your cabin, correct?

Of course not, but I can order online in advance and just pick up.  It would be nice if they had a service right to the terminals at PE.

[PMGS247]

1 hour ago, MissP22 said:

In my case it just doesn't pay. It's more than I would care to drink no matter how you calculate it. 

I've decided on a different solution for the future which tailors the price to someone in my category. 

Right..which is fine. No one’s trying to convince you otherwise. But people don’t need to drink all 15 to save money on a package as is commonly implied….not by a long shot. 

[Lady Arwen]

7 minutes ago, PMGS247 said:

Right..which is fine. No one’s trying to convince you otherwise. But people don’t need to drink all 15 to save money on a package as is commonly implied….not by a long shot. 

Why is it that those who think the plus package is not for them feel the need to try to convince others they don’t need it either.  So what if someone only wants 1 cocktail per day, 6 lattes,  4 juice from the juice bar,  2 Premium desserts, fitness classes, 3 bottles of Perrier, etc., etc.!  But, they say “It’s only 1 alcoholic beverage, so you don’t need the package because you don’t drink 15!”   
Why do these people care?  I don’t care if you choose not to buy the package nor would I try to talk you into it. I don’t care if you do the math or if you don’t.  I don’t care if you get the package only because you like not to worry about what you’re spending.  I don’t care if you’re losing money.  That’s your business!

If you want to have it, get it.  If you don’t want it, then don’t.  Nobody cares.

[JimmyVWine]

34 minutes ago, Lady Arwen said:

So what if someone only wants 1 cocktail per day, 6 lattes,  4 juice from the juice bar,  2 Premium desserts, fitness classes, 3 bottles of Perrier, etc., etc.!  But, they say “It’s only 1 alcoholic beverage, so you don’t need the package because you don’t drink 15!”   

See, now you've gone and made my easy peasy simple little formula way too complex.  Now it is:

If anticipated EG + WC + ADBC + ACBI + JBC +PDI +FCC + FBW is greater than or equal to $60 then the customer saves money with Plus, where EG = Expected Gratuity; ADBC = Average Daily Beverage Cost; ACBI = Average Caffeinated Beverage Intake; JBC = Juice Bar Consumption; PDI = Premium Dessert Indulgence; FCC = Fitness Classes Completed and FBW = Fancy Bottled Waters.  😁 

[Lady Arwen]

4 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

See, now you've gone and made my easy peasy simple little formula way too complex.  Now it is:

If anticipated EG + WC + ADBC + ACBI + JBC +PDI +FCC + FBW is greater than or equal to $60 then the customer saves money with Plus, where EG = Expected Gratuity; ADBC = Average Daily Beverage Cost; ACBI = Average Caffeinated Beverage Intake; JBC = Juice Bar Consumption; PDI = Premium Dessert Indulgence; FCC = Fitness Classes Completed and FBW = Fancy Bottled Waters.  😁 

I just spewed my wine on my ipad!  Probably the best post in this entire thread.  I can leave it all behind me now knowing that you’ve taken every single possible equation into account.  Thank you for your time, sir.  I’m still laughing!

[voljeep]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

See, now you've gone and made my easy peasy simple little formula way too complex.  Now it is:

If anticipated EG + WC + ADBC + ACBI + JBC +PDI +FCC + FBW is greater than or equal to $60 then the customer saves money with Plus, where EG = Expected Gratuity; ADBC = Average Daily Beverage Cost; ACBI = Average Caffeinated Beverage Intake; JBC = Juice Bar Consumption; PDI = Premium Dessert Indulgence; FCC = Fitness Classes Completed and FBW = Fancy Bottled Waters.  😁 

the answer is ... C ... when you guess, you always take the middle answer