HAL Ships Staffing Levels

[mcrcruiser]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Wow, your expectations for dinner service is 60 - 75 mins, we take longer than that for lunch. Unless we get really poor table mates, which is rare, our normal time for dinner is 2.5 - 3 hrs, or more. Many nights we have missed the show as we have enjoyed many great conversations.

 

I'll suggest, your expectations are not the norm, especially for us possibly more experienced cruisers.

We are just 2 people at the table .We don't join into    large tables

[mcrcruiser]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Many factors can impact the level of service on a ship, not just the crewing level.

 

The ship's management team plays a significant role, which also includes the Master, even when considering the hotel operation. The crew's level of training, experience and resulting competence can also impact service levels.

 

You don't even have to sail on the same ship twice to note changes in service levels. On a number of cruises, we have noted changes to service levels when some of the senior officers head out on leave.

That is   true ,then again  don't they al least try to meet minimum standards .? .In general we have  found the rebuilding process taking more time  .Pre covid we experienced  more smoothness  on ships  .I am not talking high end  vessels ,  the ones we use to compare are RCL & Celebrity  . They have stage shows  every night with 15 or more performers plus the musicians  in todays post covid world   . We can inly hope HAL comes back to those shows  . It is not possible for us to cruise on thees  lines  because we are  close to SD port  .The LA port  is too far & parking is a mess there.We went once in March & that was enough for handicap people .We are also mid 80s .so now we adapt our expectations to a  different  kind of entertainment  .We like  The music  walk to listen for a sgort time but ,it is not our style of music  .The  @ pianos in billboard on board is more  of a listening for us ,so that is where we would spend most of our time . 

 Personally ,I feel the entire industry is in a state of flux with the advent od Ai & robotics . Although we won;'t see it  Ai & robotics will play a huge part in  the future of the cruise industry ;as it will in other industries 

[HamOp]

6 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Holland America continues to provide a gracious service in their MDR. I do not like to be rushed through my meals; a slower pace is more enjoyable to me as it is in line with what I have always experienced while cruising. 

 

And before you boast again of your many previous cruises, I have been cruising since 1972!  Remember, the phrase is "Savor the journey" not "Bolt your food and run."

 

If you do not have the patience for MDR dining, why not eat elsewhere? The Lido offers mostly the same choices and of course on HAL you can order room service directly from the MDR menu.

 

 

 

And that, my friends, is the difference between "Eating" and "Dining"

[mcrcruiser]

4 hours ago, AV8rix said:

However, many (perhaps most) of your comments are not facts.  They are your opinions.  "What is important" is to differentiate between those two terms and to use them properly.  JMO.

Ask what are facts ,unless a CEO of a company reports it is not fact yet , what is gained on these boards is a sense of direction of where the cruise lines are headed  .Additionally ,people will post their experiences  from present & past cruises . The new cruiser can  get a better idea what they will have aboard different  lines & ships of the same line . People tend to gravitate to a cruise line for many  different personal reasons  . Holland America ships as a example are really not   the same draw for families with young children ..So a new cruise needs to read to get a better idea which cruise line fits their needs best

[mcrcruiser]

7 minutes ago, HamOp said:

And that, my friends, is the difference between "Eating" and "Dining"

That person  has that desire . I don't frown on what she wrote , We are just different people with different needs  .

[kazu]

55 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Ask what are facts ,unless a CEO of a company reports it is not fact yet , what is gained on these boards is a sense of direction of where the cruise lines are headed  .Additionally ,people will post their experiences  from present & past cruises . The new cruiser can  get a better idea what they will have aboard different  lines & ships of the same line . People tend to gravitate to a cruise line for many  different personal reasons  . Holland America ships as a example are really not   the same draw for families with young children ..So a new cruise needs to read to get a better idea which cruise line fits their needs best

 

One cruise does not equal the direction the cruise line is going.  I was on the Oosterdam a month prior and the service was impeccable.  Seaview Bar staff were phenomenal.  They couldn’t do enough for you.

You went on a cruise at peak time - Christmas when there were bound to be families and many children.  I knew that when I went.  I chose to go just the same.  

To say HAL is not a draw for families with young children is a bit silly considering we had 500-600 children on every segment on my Koningsdam cruise.   Is it the right line for children?  Very much depends on the family and their children.

 

We had lovely children on our Panama Canal cruise for 20 days and on our 31 day Prinsendam cruise.  So well behaved and charming they were at the VIP party and the Captain Gundersen invited them to dip into the chocolate fountain.  On our Panama Canal, the children were equally enchanting and Captain Van Eerten had treats for the at the Meet and Greet.  

 

But you can’t determine the way a cruise line is going based on one particular cruise especially at peak season (Christmas/New Years) when the ship is bound to be overflowing.

 

 

52 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

That person  has that desire . I don't frown on what she wrote , We are just different people with different needs  .

 

If you want to eat in 45 minutes, I recommend the Lido as others have.  Dinner in the MDR or even Club Orange (or any specialty) is leisurely dining.  If you are in a hurry, unless you are just going to order the main course, it’s not the place to eat.  JMO

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

One cruise does not equal the direction the cruise line is going.  I was on the Oosterdam a month prior and the service was impeccable.  Seaview Bar staff were phenomenal.  They couldn’t do enough for you.

You went on a cruise at peak time - Christmas when there were bound to be families and many children.  I knew that when I went.  I chose to go just the same.  

To say HAL is not a draw for families with young children is a bit silly considering we had 500-600 children on every segment on my Koningsdam cruise.   Is it the right line for children?  Very much depends on the family and their children.

 

We had lovely children on our Panama Canal cruise for 20 days and on our 31 day Prinsendam cruise.  So well behaved and charming they were at the VIP party and the Captain Gundersen invited them to dip into the chocolate fountain.  On our Panama Canal, the children were equally enchanting and Captain Van Eerten had treats for the at the Meet and Greet.  

 

But you can’t determine the way a cruise line is going based on one particular cruise especially at peak season (Christmas/New Years) when the ship is bound to be overflowing.

 

 

 

If you want to eat in 45 minutes, I recommend the Lido as others have.  Dinner in the MDR or even Club Orange (or any specialty) is leisurely dining.  If you are in a hurry, unless you are just going to order the main course, it’s not the place to eat.  JMO

To give an idea about timing changes the passenger make up. Currently on a Princess cruise. Two one ways from Vancouver to Whitier amd back. Cruises that primarily are filled with people connecting to/from land tours in Alaska. Similar to the same route that HAL runs.

 

On most Princess cruises there will be atleast 25% Elite and maybe 20% of the passengers first time on Princess.

 

 On this route final stats was around 3% Elite (around 100-125) on both legs and 80% first timers (2800 out of 3600 on the leg up and 2800 out of 3400 on the leg south).

 

Far more children that normal, with a lot of large extended family groups. But about what one would expect for Alaska in the summer.

 

While the fares is one of the lowest you will find per day on a Princess cruise (same as on HAL), most are also booked on land tours and those booking the lower rates are filling in the cabins after the cruise/tours are allocated.  Basically Alaska and the land tour business for both lines is introducing a lot of new people to the lines.

[NightOne]

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Many factors can impact the level of service on a ship, not just the crewing level.

 

The ship's management team plays a significant role, which also includes the Master, even when considering the hotel operation. The crew's level of training, experience and resulting competence can also impact service levels.

 

You don't even have to sail on the same ship twice to note changes in service levels. On a number of cruises, we have noted changes to service levels when some of the senior officers head out on leave.

 

I'm not an idiot. I have asked multiple staff multiple times when I am on an understaffed ship and they admit it and tell you they are short crew members. It has been a problem since the restart of full passenger loads.

 

It is not a secret that Carnival Corp is having problems get all the ships fully crewed. They have admitted it. It is not a secret.

 

 

[NightOne]

4 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Unless someone who works in HAL's HR department posts here, we won't know for certain how the staffing levels are. 

 

Ask crew members, guest services, cruise director, etc.

 

They admit when they are short crew

[Guest ldtr]

Just now, NightOne said:

 

I'm not an idiot. I have asked multiple staff multiple times when I am on an understaffed ship and they admit it and tell you they are short crew members. It has been a problem since the restart of full passenger loads.

 

It is not a secret that Carnival Corp is having problems get all the ships fully crewed. They have admitted it. It is not a secret.

 

 

Most of the time the crew will just tend to agree with the passengers they are talking to.  It is not the crews job to either provide such information or ti disagree with passengers. As a result they will tend to smile and agree.

 

An officer may be more willing to have more of a discussion on the actual situation.

 

Your statement was true early in the restart, especially early in 2022. Not so much in 2023.

[NightOne]

1 minute ago, ldtr said:

Most of the time the crew will just tend to agree with the passengers they are talking to.  It is not the crews job to either provide such information or ti disagree with passengers. As a result they will tend to smile and agree.

 

An officer may be more willing to have more of a discussion on the actual situation.

 

Your statement was true early in the restart, especially early in 2022. Not so much in 2023.

 

Which is why you ask multiple people.

 

It is still true on some ships. Go find out for yourself. Not going to argue with you.

 

I just got off a ship last week that was short crew. I did the behind the scenes tour and seen it firsthand as well. Was not a huge deal to me but the impact of short crew and cutbacks by Carnival Corp is getting very noticeable. 

[Guest ldtr]

23 minutes ago, NightOne said:

 

Ask crew members, guest services, cruise director, etc.

 

They admit when they are short crew

Problem is that none of the people you gave as examples are  in a position to know and most are in jobs trained to reduce conflict so they will tend to agree with the passengers.

 

If you really want to know you need to chat with the head of hotel services, the head of cabin services or similar top level positions that actually manage the personnel that staff the various customer facing positions. They are one ones that know that  know the actual numbers and are quite often willing to actually discuss the detail on staffing and changes in pra tice/policy.

Edited July 18, 2023 by ldtr

[NightOne]

21 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Problem is that none of the people you gave as examples are  in a position to know and most are in jobs trained to reduce conflict so they will tend to agree with the passengers.

 

If you really want to know you need to chat with the head of hotel services, the head of cabin services or similar top level positions that actually manage the personnel that staff the various customer facing positions. They are one ones that know that  know the actual numbers and are quite often willing to actually discuss the detail on staffing and changes in pra tice/policy.

 

SMH

 

I'm done LOL

[AV8rix]

44 minutes ago, NightOne said:

 

 

I just got off a ship last week that was short crew. I did the behind the scenes tour and...<snip>

Huh?  The "Behind The Scenes" tour has been discontinued since the shutdown in 2019.  That fact has been verified by numerous folks on this board, plus I myself have been on six cruises since the restart and have not seen it offered.   

 

Would you mind sharing with us which ship you were on "last week"  when you took this tour and which line (you're apparently not a HAL regular)?

 

I'm hoping you were telling the truth because I haven't been on that tour since 2016 and I'd like to sign up for it again if HAL has really resumed it.  TIA.

Edited July 18, 2023 by AV8rix

[1ANGELCAT]

@AV8rix, Carnival Miracle in the profile.

[OlsSalt]

1 hour ago, NightOne said:

 

SMH

 

I'm done LOL

 

What HAL ship is offering the "Behind the Scenes" tours again?

[HamOp]

1 hour ago, albingirl said:

It's all crash and burn with you. Seriously, enough already. Let us all know when you are happy and we will be happy for you. 

I really, really hate fast food.  The burgers are small and often cold, the fries taste like rubber, and it's all over priced.  I just can't stand to eat that junk.

Oh by the way, I'm having lunch there 3 days next week.🤪

[AV8rix]

3 hours ago, 1ANGELCAT said:

@AV8rix, Carnival Miracle in the profile.

OK, thanks.  Makes sense.  From what I can see from his content history, this poster sails mostly on Carnival and this is the FIRST thread in which he has EVER participated on this board.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, NightOne said:

 

I'm not an idiot. I have asked multiple staff multiple times when I am on an understaffed ship and they admit it and tell you they are short crew members. It has been a problem since the restart of full passenger loads.

 

It is not a secret that Carnival Corp is having problems get all the ships fully crewed. They have admitted it. It is not a secret.

 

 

I'm not aware that anyone is disputing that cruise lines are having challenges finding qualified and experienced crew members, and that the ships are sailing below max crew complement.

 

You posted that if you sailed on the same ship twice and one cruise it was below max compliment you would definitely notice the difference. Sorry, but with my almost 30 yrs in command, I would not agree, as many factors can influence pax service.

 

If the fully crewed ship was operating below peak performance, yes it does happen, you may not notice any difference in service with a ship below max compliment that is operating at peak performance. Another key factor to consider is what crew members are missing - how many and from which departments are they from. Missing a few deck & engineering ratings doesn't have much impact on pax service. 

 

In addition to ships sailing below max compliment, a large percentage of the crew is new, with minimal experience, which can have more impact on service levels than having a few crew missing, as the new crew can slow down the others.

 

Another factor impacting pax service at present, is the rapid promotion of crew into supervisory positions. Rapidly promoted supervisors and officers may not have the experience necessary to effectively train/mentor the large numbers of new crew.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, ldtr said:

Most of the time the crew will just tend to agree with the passengers they are talking to.  It is not the crews job to either provide such information or ti disagree with passengers. As a result they will tend to smile and agree.

 

An officer may be more willing to have more of a discussion on the actual situation.

 

Your statement was true early in the restart, especially early in 2022. Not so much in 2023.

 

In addition to that, you also have some crew, even when the ship is at compliment, complaining they are overworked and short of crew.

 

Having told some amazing stories to pax over the years, especially during Bridge visits, I tend to take anything provided by a crew member, unless I really know them, with a grain of salt.

 

As you indicated they are expected to not disagree with pax, so will often answer accordingly.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, NightOne said:

 

Which is why you ask multiple people.

 

It is still true on some ships. Go find out for yourself. Not going to argue with you.

 

I just got off a ship last week that was short crew. I did the behind the scenes tour and seen it firsthand as well. Was not a huge deal to me but the impact of short crew and cutbacks by Carnival Corp is getting very noticeable. 

 

It doesn't matter how many people you ask. If you want a definitive answer on the crew size, you need to ask the right people - Master or any of the Senior Department Heads.

 

On the "Behind the Scenes Tour", I'm not aware that they provide pax with the max crew compliment, actual crew compliment and contents of the MSM Document. Without having that information, you may suspect the ship is short a few crew, but you cannot know for certain. Even on the Behind the Scenes Tour you see/meet only a very small percentage of the crew.

[JRG]

19 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

It doesn't matter how many people you ask. If you want a definitive answer on the crew size, you need to ask the right people - Master or any of the Senior Department Heads.

 

Doesn't it really matter though on a ship by ship basis,  as to whether or not understaffing has happened or is happening.    The best source would be the trip reports similar to the Live from the Westerdam types of hard-knocking journalistic posts.   Thats where I get my ground intel from.

 

I think the one clue might be if the cabin stewards have been reduced from 2 to 1 per day,  I do not know if that has changed back.   I was wondering if this affected the lifeboat safety drills of the crew,  to have it reduced might affect the safety of the passengers or affect the efficiency of the lifeboat drill.

 

Maybe we can tell  on a ship by ship basis if staffing has been reduced from the placemat they give us at the end of the cruise journey where HAL tells us how many eggs we consumed.   You should be able to solve for that arithmetically and forego all of the oversell.

 

 

[JRG]

Okay,  the answer is definitely on the Voyage Log that you get at the end of your savorous journey,  but it is not in the egg count.

 

The Voyage Log tells you exactly how many passengers, crew, nautical miles, eggs, etc..

.

HAL would not lie to us on our Voyage Log so everybody start pulling your Voyage Logs.

[mcrcruiser]

We j hope that our next Koningsdam  cruise will be different that the one we left in Dec 2022 . Generally Hawiian cruises have more lessons on how to make leis ,Ukulele lessons ,& may be hula lessons ,at least on the way to the Hawaiian islands during sea days 

[3rdGenCunarder]

8 hours ago, JRG said:

Okay,  the answer is definitely on the Voyage Log that you get at the end of your savorous journey,  but it is not in the egg count.

 

The Voyage Log tells you exactly how many passengers, crew, nautical miles, eggs, etc..

.

HAL would not lie to us on our Voyage Log so everybody start pulling your Voyage Logs.

 

I didn't get a Voyage Log on my Eurodam cruise this winter. Maybe HAL is trying to hide something.