Alternatives to Celebrity

[Traveling Fools]

On 8/22/2023 at 4:04 PM, Traveling Fools said:

This coming November 2023 we have a TA from Lisbon to Ft. Lauderdale booked aboard Azamara Onward.  We booked with Azamara only because it was a package Land Journey/Cruise deal.  Not that we have anything against Azamara, their itineraries just haven’t met our wants.  The footprint of the ships in the Azamara fleet appear to be very similar to Oceania’s; so, it will be interesting to compare the two carriers.

 

FYI, Yesterday I researched the Azamara fleet...all three ships. (Onward, Pursuit, and Journey)  They are sister ships of Oceania's Sirena, Regatta and Nautica. Those six ships first saw life in the early 2000's as ships of the Renaissance Cruises lines.  https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/what-ever-happened-to-former-renaissance-cruises-r-ships 

 

Jack Del Rio has his fingerprints all over the former Renaissance fleet.

 

One of Renaissance's ships went to Princess and remains active in the Princess fleet. (AKA: Tahiti Princess and Ocean Princess)

 

Another Renaissance ship is now operated as the Adonia by P&O

 

I also took a look at ships operated by Regent Seven Seas and Crystal.  Ships in those two fleets appear to have been built specifically for their respective cruise lines. 

[mac_tlc]

Just to add a bit, Oceania really has three classes of ships. The smallest are the old r class ships, hold about 650. The Marina and Riviera (Marina class) are bigger and have about 1250 passengers. Vista is the newest and will soon be followed by Allura (Vista class) . Both at about 1200 passengers. All those numbers are double occupancy. 
 

I am pretty close to booking Vista for its March 2025 TA or January 2025 Panama Canal. The highest category Concierge Verandah is cheaper than a Sky Suite on Beyond, the Penthouse suites are a bit more depending on itinerary. 
 

First, I have to book the MSC Seashore in YC for about $175 less per person per day than a Sky Suite on Beyond. 
 

A year ago, I probably would not have done this much research……..

 

mac_tlc

Edited August 25, 2023 by mac_tlc

[mchell810]

4 hours ago, Traveling Fools said:

 

FYI, Yesterday I researched the Azamara fleet...all three ships. (Onward, Pursuit, and Journey)  They are sister ships of Oceania's Sirena, Regatta and Nautica. Those six ships first saw life in the early 2000's as ships of the Renaissance Cruises lines.  https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/what-ever-happened-to-former-renaissance-cruises-r-ships 

 

Jack Del Rio has his fingerprints all over the former Renaissance fleet.

 

One of Renaissance's ships went to Princess and remains active in the Princess fleet. (AKA: Tahiti Princess and Ocean Princess)

 

Another Renaissance ship is now operated as the Adonia by P&O

 

I also took a look at ships operated by Regent Seven Seas and Crystal.  Ships in those two fleets appear to have been built specifically for their respective cruise lines. 

 

I am not sure when theysite you quote was last updated; however ...

 

There are 8 R-ships: Oceania has 4 (Insignia is not mentioned above) and Azamara also has 4 (Quest not mentioned above).  After buying the Azamara brand Sycamore partners bought the last ship from Princess during the covid shutdown; this ship was renamed Onward.

 

 

[Traveling Fools]

22 hours ago, mac_tlc said:

First, I have to book the MSC Seashore in YC for about $175 less per person per day than a Sky Suite on Beyond. 

 

I have looked at MSC, but find the size of their suites to be smaller that other lines.  Oh, a couple of years ago when docked at Cozumel there was an MSC ship docked next to us.  I saw passengers, couples and families...(not crew)...lugging their suite cases to and from the ship and shore.  I'm sure it was an anomaly, but I told myself "not for me!)

 

20 hours ago, mchell810 said:

After buying the Azamara brand Sycamore partners bought the last ship from Princess during the covid shutdown; this ship was renamed Onward.

 

We are booked on Onward for a mid to end of November TA from Portugal to Fort Lauderdale. 

[terrydtx]

2 hours ago, Traveling Fools said:

I have looked at MSC, but find the size of their suites to be smaller that other lines.  Oh, a couple of years ago when docked at Cozumel there was an MSC ship docked next to us.  I saw passengers, couples and families...(not crew)...lugging their suite cases to and from the ship and shore.  I'm sure it was an anomaly, but I told myself "not for me!)

We took a look at MSC but too many short 7 days cruises and not all ships have the Yacht Club. They seem to have itineraries as boring at NCL. 

[OysterD]

4 hours ago, Traveling Fools said:

 

I have looked at MSC, but find the size of their suites to be smaller that other lines.  Oh, a couple of years ago when docked at Cozumel there was an MSC ship docked next to us.  I saw passengers, couples and families...(not crew)...lugging their suite cases to and from the ship and shore.  I'm sure it was an anomaly, but I told myself "not for me!)

 

 

I'm not sure about Caribbean cruises but in the Med at least, one of the many things that put me off picking an MSC cruise is pretty much every port on any given route is an embarkation/debarkation port. For example, if the cruise you book is 7nt RT from Barcelona and day 2 on your itinerary is Marseille, that will be day 1 for some people on the ship - they will have booked a 7nt RT from Marseille. There will be people starting and finishing their 7nt cruises on almost every day of your cruise. To me that would feel a bit too much like being on a ferry and just add to the generally chaotic feeling I get the impression the ships feel like! 

[Ken the cruiser]

OK, we just gave in to considering HAL's 3-5 week cruises again, once we stopped comparing their variety of onboard entertainment to either Celebrity or Princess, when we noticed their fares were super reasonable. I have to say HAL does have some intriguing longer itineraries. 

[Ipeeinthepools]

1 minute ago, Ken the cruiser said:

OK, we just gave in to considering HAL's 3-5 week cruises again, once we stopped comparing their variety of onboard entertainment to either Celebrity or Princess, when we noticed their fares were super reasonable. I have to say HAL does have some intriguing longer itineraries. 

 

After a couple cruises Celebrity wins hands down for main stage entertainment, but Celebrity doesn't have anything to compare to the Music walk.  If you are non-suite guest, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with HAL.  I can't comment on the suite experience for either line.

[terrydtx]

11 hours ago, OysterD said:

 

I'm not sure about Caribbean cruises but in the Med at least, one of the many things that put me off picking an MSC cruise is pretty much every port on any given route is an embarkation/debarkation port. For example, if the cruise you book is 7nt RT from Barcelona and day 2 on your itinerary is Marseille, that will be day 1 for some people on the ship - they will have booked a 7nt RT from Marseille. There will be people starting and finishing their 7nt cruises on almost every day of your cruise. To me that would feel a bit too much like being on a ferry and just add to the generally chaotic feeling I get the impression the ships feel like! 

Good thought, I never realized that about MSC.

[terrydtx]

20 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

After a couple cruises Celebrity wins hands down for main stage entertainment, but Celebrity doesn't have anything to compare to the Music walk.  If you are non-suite guest, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with HAL.  I can't comment on the suite experience for either line.

Since 2019 we have only sailed on Celebrity in the Retreat. The ship entertainment on both X and HAL have little interest for us other than HAL will not have a comedian or magicians which are the only shows on Celebrity we consider attending. We have booked 3 cruises on HAL post Covid, one last year for 14 night Greek cruise, one California coastal cruise in November and the third  next August of NE and Canada. On HAL we can book a verandah cabin and add Club Orange to get many of the amenities we prefer by booking a Suite on Celebrity for a lot less money. On the 3 newest HAL ships the Club Orange add will get us access to the CO private dining room for breakfast and diners. BTW room service for all cabin classes is still free, for now at least. The highest level of cabin we have booked is a Signature Suite which is about the same size as a Sky Suite, The real suites on HAL are the Neptune and Pinnacle suites. The Neptune suites on a per day cost are 20-30% less than a SS on Celebrity.

Edited August 27, 2023 by terrydtx

[D. B.]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:37 PM, mchell810 said:

 

I am not sure when theysite you quote was last updated; however ...

 

There are 8 R-ships: Oceania has 4 (Insignia is not mentioned above) and Azamara also has 4 (Quest not mentioned above).  After buying the Azamara brand Sycamore partners bought the last ship from Princess during the covid shutdown; this ship was renamed Onward.

 

 

We tried an Azamara cruise last April around Japan

Loved the Itinerary but would never do another Azamara cruise.

Did not like the Old small ship. Small cabin that was so noisy it was hard to sleep. Tiny shower and snotty guests.

[mac_tlc]

26 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

OK, we just gave in to considering HAL's 3-5 week cruises again, once we stopped comparing their variety of onboard entertainment to either Celebrity or Princess, when we noticed their fares were super reasonable. I have to say HAL does have some intriguing longer itineraries. 

Ah, Michael Corleone syndrome::

 

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in "

 

🤣

[mac_tlc]

11 hours ago, OysterD said:

 

I'm not sure about Caribbean cruises but in the Med at least, one of the many things that put me off picking an MSC cruise is pretty much every port on any given route is an embarkation/debarkation port. For example, if the cruise you book is 7nt RT from Barcelona and day 2 on your itinerary is Marseille, that will be day 1 for some people on the ship - they will have booked a 7nt RT from Marseille. There will be people starting and finishing their 7nt cruises on almost every day of your cruise. To me that would feel a bit too much like being on a ferry and just add to the generally chaotic feeling I get the impression the ships feel like! 

That is not the case in the Caribbean. Seashore/Seaview/Seaside/Seascape have no interportting cruises out of Miami or PC. 

 

For the price, the YC is worth a try -- most reviews are positive and indicate its equal to or better than the Retreat. If I can save multiple thousands of dollars to branch out a bit, it's a good option for us. 

 

mac_tlc

[terrydtx]

54 minutes ago, D. B. said:

We tried an Azamara cruise last April around Japan

Loved the Itinerary but would never do another Azamara cruise.

Did not like the Old small ship. Small cabin that was so noisy it was hard to sleep. Tiny shower and snotty guests.

That has also kept us from even looking at Azamara, even on Oceania we will only book on their larger newer ships. The tiny cabins on the ex-Renaissance ships are a no go for us.

Edited August 27, 2023 by terrydtx

[terrydtx]

48 minutes ago, mac_tlc said:

That is not the case in the Caribbean. Seashore/Seaview/Seaside/Seascape have no interportting cruises out of Miami or PC. 

 

For the price, the YC is worth a try -- most reviews are positive and indicate its equal to or better than the Retreat. If I can save multiple thousands of dollars to branch out a bit, it's a good option for us. 

 

mac_tlc

We are done with, after 20 years, doing any more Caribbean cruises and in the Med we haven't found an MSC cruise with YC we would do.

[D. B.]

19 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

That has also kept us from even looking at Azamara, even on Oceania we will only book on their larger newer ships. The tiny cabins on the ex-Renaissance ships are a no go for us.

We did our first Oceania cruise 2 months ago on Marina. We would do another one but only on that size ship.

[MISTER 67]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:51 PM, Hobbsey said:

I’d take good look at HAL

I wouldn’t.

[Dr. Cocktail]

As a Retreat alternative, might I suggest Explora Journeys?

 

This is MSC’s entry into the ultra-luxury market. About 64 000 grt and ~ 900 passengers at full capacity but they  expect to initially sail with about 700.

 

Four (!) pools and associated bars, four complimentary dining rooms + “buffet” (more of a food hall concept - fresh oysters, filets, sashimi - no problem) and complimentary house “sparkling wine” is Moët and Chandon (France, not California!)

 

All inclusive except for shore excursions.

 

NO SHOW LOUNGE !!!   No horrible click track shows! All entertainment is come and go as you please with acts lasting for hours (with breaks) in the assorted lounges.

 

They have admitted that their target market is the “Working Wealthy”, ages 50 to 65.

 

I have three booked….

Edited August 27, 2023 by Dr. Cocktail

[OysterD]

2 hours ago, mac_tlc said:

That is not the case in the Caribbean. Seashore/Seaview/Seaside/Seascape have no interportting cruises out of Miami or PC. 

 

For the price, the YC is worth a try -- most reviews are positive and indicate its equal to or better than the Retreat. If I can save multiple thousands of dollars to branch out a bit, it's a good option for us. 

 

mac_tlc

 

I wondered if the Caribbean would be different, the logistics would be very hard to sort out. I've not looked at cruises around there though, I've little to no interest in hopping between fairly samey islands on a cruise. 

 

I don't think the YC would interest me tbh. I get that it's a little oasis amongst the hustle and bustle and madness of the rest of the ship, but I wouldn't want to be thinking ugh, here goes, every time I set foot out of the YC.  And if you never set foot out of the YC then what's the point in the rest of the ship, might as well sail on a smaller one or different cruise line altogether. I know lots of people love it but don't think it would be for me. 

 

Next few cruises are on X, we'll see what happens after that. Maybe if Virgin start some longer cruises that might be an option. Don't hear much in the way of comparisons on here with P&O, might look into that a bit more. 

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, mac_tlc said:

Ah, Michael Corleone syndrome::

 

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in "

 

🤣

Yup, we just couldn't keep ignoring the free laundry perk for being 4 star Mariners. 🤣

[Texed]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

As a Retreat alternative, might I suggest Explora Journeys?

They have admitted that their target market is the “Working Wealthy”, ages 50 to 65.

 

I guess I am a three time loser.  Not working, not wealthy, not in the age group.  😎

[Ken the cruiser]

When we were on our 38-day Africa cruise last fall on the NCL Jade, we kept comparing our pre-cruise as well as our first few days of experiences onboard with our previous cruises with Celebrity and Princess since cruising started back up. For example, we got annoyed with the fact we couldn't use the nonrefundable OBC we got from our TA to pay for the DSC (more commonly referred to as gratuities). We also didn't care for the fact we had to buy "boxes" of water, as my DW only drinks water and hot chocolate, even if we had decided to pay the $21.40 pp/day gratuities charge (which we didn't) for their FAS beverage package. They also didn't have lectures or even port talks on sea days, and their game shows were pretty weak. HOWEVER, once we accepted these differences and started appreciating what experiences they were offering onboard, we started to have a much better time.

 

Fast forward to our HAL decision. Same theory. Once we stopped comparing what HAL used to offer for entertainment on their cruises prior to 2018 and focus on the positive aspects of what the "new" HAL currently has to offer, to include very affordable prices for the Vista suite veranda cabins (around $250 +/- pp/day with their Have It All package) for many of their 3-5 week itineraries, we decided to give them another go (in 2026). But then we're also 4-star Mariners with over 160 days onboard their ships, and we do every much enjoy unlimited free laundry! 😉

[Traveling Fools]

15 hours ago, OysterD said:

'm not sure about Caribbean cruises but in the Med at least, one of the many things that put me off picking an MSC cruise is pretty much every port on any given route is an embarkation/debarkation port.

 

That must have been what we witnessed in Cozumel.  Watching passengers schlep their luggage to and from the main road was a real turn off to us!

 

[MamaFej]

18 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

HOWEVER, once we accepted these differences and started appreciating what experiences they were offering onboard, we started to have a much better time.

 

Fast forward to our HAL decision. Same theory. Once we stopped comparing what HAL used to offer for entertainment on their cruises prior to 2018 and focus on the positive aspects of what the "new" HAL currently has to offer, to include very affordable prices for the Vista suite veranda cabins (around $250 +/- pp/day with their Have It All package) for many of their 3-5 week itineraries, we decided to give them another go (in 2026). 😉

I think you've hit on somehting important here, Ken. Cruisers would be wise, going forward, to compare what is, not what was.

 

The question for purposes of this forum, then, is: why wouldn't Celebrity want to make sure what is is better for their target market than what their competitors are offering, and why wouldn't Celebrity want to make sure what is is consistent from booking time to sailing time? Unless, of course, they are seeking an endless series of one and done customers rather than repeat ones. 

[terrydtx]

32 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Fast forward to our HAL decision. Same theory. Once we stopped comparing what HAL used to offer for entertainment on their cruises prior to 2018 and focus on the positive aspects of what the "new" HAL currently has to offer, to include very affordable prices for the Vista suite veranda cabins (around $250 +/- pp/day with their Have It All package) for many of their 3-5 week itineraries, we decided to give them another go (in 2026). But then we're also 4-star Mariners with over 160 days onboard their ships, and we do every much enjoy unlimited free laundry!

From 2007 to 2019 we sailed primarily with HAL with one mistake NCL disappointment in there. From 2019 to now after we discovered the Retreat we fell in love with Celebrity. Did the one HAL Oosterdam 14 day Greek cruise last year purely for the itinerary that X didn't have. Our first SS was on the Equinox in 2019 for 9 days was less than $600pp more than an Aqua Class cabin. It was this true bargain that sold us on Celebrity and the Retreat product. We had booked and sailed on 3 more Retreat cruises after that first one and we have 3 more booked next month and a B2B in January. The culmination of SS cuts and the 30-40% increases in SS cost have us gravitating away from Celebrity back to HAL and trying Oceania. For Example when we booked our 12 night January SS on the Edge cruise of New Zealand back in January 2022 we booked for $4869pp, the last price I saw for our SS was $6889pp or a 40% increase over what we booked. Looking at other future cruises in Sky Suites the current pricing and NRD have priced us out of the product and we can no longer justify the product. You can say I have taken my Celebrity blinders off.