Had medical emergency being charged $941 pp

[not-enough-cruising]

20 minutes ago, ocean sounds said:

Yes, I just checked in for my coming cruise, and looked in the cruise ticket  contract:  (9. H) 

 

9. PASSENGER’S OBLIGATION TO COMPLY WITH AGREEMENT, APPLICABLE LAWS, AND RULES OF CARRIER; QUARANTINE; INDEMNIFICATION:

…

h. Passenger acknowledges that for certain voyages, such as a round-trip voyage commencing in a United States port, the Passenger must complete the entire voyage and that failure to do so may result in a fine or other penalty being assessed by one or more governmental agencies. Passenger hereby agrees to pay any such fine or penalty imposed because Passenger failed to complete the entire voyage and to reimburse Carrier in the event it pays such fine or penalty.

 

so - not signing the form does not make the charge invalid.   Still, I wonder if Royal in good faith asked to have it waived for the Passengers under a Medical waiver?  

Thank You

 

Very interesting 

[ocean sounds]

22 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'd be shocked if RC tried to pass that onto the passenger (as a normal course of business at least) for a medical emergency even if RC in the end paid the fine.

 

That language surely is for the people who simply want to leave early.

I have no idea under what Passenger circumstances this has to be paid. Just posted what was in my cruise contract today. 

Like I ended my post above, I wonder if Royal in good faith asked to have it waived for the Passengers under a Medical waiver?  🤷🏼‍♀️ 

Hope OP takes the suggestion to write Bayley’s office 

I would expect it to be waived under the circumstances.

Edited September 18, 2023 by ocean sounds
Added

[smokeybandit]

12 minutes ago, ocean sounds said:

I have no idea under what Passenger circumstances this has to be paid. Just posted what was in my cruise contract today. 

Like I ended my post above, I wonder if Royal in good faith asked to have it waived for the Passengers under a Medical waiver?  🤷🏼‍♀️ 

Hope OP takes the suggestion to write Bayley’s office 

I would expect it to be waived under the circumstances.

From reading things PVSA waivers are a bit complicated. But still, a medical departure seems like a perfect time to eat the fine either way.

 

[Another_Critic]

5 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

The risk, which may or may not matter to the OP, is going this route can result in getting banned by RCI. Two summers ago my friend didn’t show up for a cruise because he thought he had COVID. However, when he took a COVID test it came back negative. Since he couldn’t provide a positive COVID test, RCI would not refund his fare or offer a FCC. He eventually disputed the charge with his credit card money. He got his money back from them, but shortly afterwards received a letter from RCI stating he was no longer allowed to cruise on RCI. According to a phone call he made to RCI, the ban only applied to RCI so he is still able to cruise on Celebrity, which is now his preferred cruise line. 

Weren't the rules back then that you could cancel for any reason up to 48 hours (or was it 72 hours) prior to sailing for an FCC, or anytime prior to sailing with a positive test?  If I'm remembering correctly, then RCI was not obligated to refund in your friend's case and the CC dispute should not have been pursued.

[Arzeena]

OP,

Very sorry to hear about your issue.
Contact your Senator or local Rep. You may get more help/info than just dealing with Royal Caribbean.

 

[chengkp75]

I'll just say a couple of things here.  The $941 figure quoted sounds like the $798 current PVSA fine, and RCI's long standing $143 "downline" disembarkation fee.  Whether that fee merely covers the additional cost of submitting the modified passenger manifests to CBP caused by the passenger/s leaving, or whether part of it is merely to dissuade passengers from using this is unknown to me, and I won't debate it, as customer service questions are not my wheelhouse.

 

I did see an article from the Elliot Group (though not a big fan), that is extremely similar to this case, where the cruise line was ignoring the passenger's request to waive the fine.  After Elliot got involved, the answer (and I won't judge the validity of the argument or not) was that the original requests from the passenger did not mention a medical emergency.  The fine was refunded.

 

I know from personal experience, though it is nearly two decades ago, that when a passenger was disembarked for medical reasons, or death, that the cruise line provided the passenger's family with the form for a waiver of PVSA fine, and all required accompanying paperwork, and left it to the family to request the waiver.  Not sure if that has changed in the last 20 years, but it may well have, as there was an overhaul to the fine/waiver process a few years back.

 

I will say that in cases that I've known about, only one family member, along with the patient/deceased were allowed to get the fine waived, not the entire party.

 

Also, note that the PVSA fine is now adjusted annually for inflation, so if you use an old article about the PVSA, it may have an incorrect fine amount.

Edited September 18, 2023 by chengkp75

[Floridado2020]

4 hours ago, sanger727 said:

Did you father get any treatment in the medical center on the ship? If so, is it possible the $1,800 is actually the bill for the medical treatment, not the PVSA fine?

No he did not . He tried going but they were closed in the early am hours 

[chengkp75]

21 minutes ago, Arzeena said:

OP,

Very sorry to hear about your issue.
Contact your Senator or local Rep. You may get more help/info than just dealing with Royal Caribbean.

 

Nearly every member of Congress has less of a clue about the PVSA, or how CBP works, than the cruise line customer service reps.  😲

[Another_Critic]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Nearly every member of Congress has less of a clue about the PVSA, or how CBP works, than the cruise line customer service reps.  😲

They need to ask the Alaska congress members for a PVSA waiver.  😄

[Ret MP]

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-23?language=en_US

[smokeybandit]

37 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Also, note that the PVSA fine is now adjusted annually for inflation, so if you use an old article about the PVSA, it may have an incorrect fine amount.

It's $941 for 2023 according to this

 

https://www.fair-sailing.com/1faqs-pvsa

[Ret MP]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

It's $941 for 2023 according to this

 

https://www.fair-sailing.com/1faqs-pvsa

The latest $ amount is here:

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-19/chapter-I/part-4/subject-group-ECFR610bc0266d90628/section-4.80

 

"(2) The penalty imposed for the unlawful transportation of passengers between coastwise points is $300 for each passenger so transported and landed on or before November 2, 2015, and $941 for each passenger so transported and landed after November 2, 2015 (46 U.S.C. 55103, as adjusted by the Federal Civil Penalties Inflation Adjustment Act Improvements Act of 2015)."

Edited September 18, 2023 by Ret MP

[Floridado2020]

3 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

The latest $ amount is here:

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-19/chapter-I/part-4/subject-group-ECFR610bc0266d90628/section-4.80

 

"(2) The penalty imposed for the unlawful transportation of passengers between coastwise points is $300 for each passenger so transported and landed on or before November 2, 2015, and $941 for each passenger so transported and landed after November 2, 2015 (46 U.S.C. 55103, as adjusted by the Federal Civil Penalties Inflation Adjustment Act Improvements Act of 2015)."

Thank you for sharing . It’s good to know that at least no matter what they’re not profiting off peoples tragedies 

[Another_Critic]

6 minutes ago, Floridado2020 said:

Thank you for sharing . It’s good to know that at least no matter what they’re not profiting off peoples tragedies 

To be fair, it would not be profiting if they added a fee for the [actual] additional costs to early disembark passengers.

[3yorkies]

6 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Valid argument 

Passenger falls and breaks an ankle, requiring surgery and cannot return to the ship; the companion opts to also not return. The cruise line will incur a fine of $1,524 for the two passengers because they never went to the foreign port -- they were simply transported between two U.S. ports -- Cape Liberty and Bar Harbor. It is up to the cruise line whether the charges will be passed along to the passengers via their onboard accounts.

In many cases, the cruise line can apply for and often receive a waiver from CBP for medical emergencies that require disembarkation, so it is advisable to notify the ship of an emergency in port that prevents you from returning. Be prepared to provide documentation that it is a true emergency. It may mean the difference between the fine being passed along or not.

 

Above is from a Cruise Critic article in 2020.  The line has the right to pass the cost on to the passenger..  It is currently $798 per person per government website, so not sure why the $143 difference.    There may also be an issue as to whether the medical emergency of one person required the disembarkation of the second.   But certainly it can take weeks, if not months, for a ship to be able to process a waiver/exemption request.  

 

From gov website:   

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act
September 2019
17
U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Penalty
* $300 for each passenger transported and landed on or before November 2,
2015.
* $798 for each passenger transported and landed after November 2, 2015.
* Issued to the vessel operator or carrier not the passenger.
CBP does not have the authority to settle charge disputes between
carriers that may have been issued penalties and their passengers

 

The PVSA is very detailed as to the process for "mitigation" and how it is filed and that is is ruled on as they are received.   We all know how quickly things are processed by many government agencies, so I would expect you would need to allow at least 6 months,

 

[Floridado2020]

3 minutes ago, 3yorkies said:

Passenger falls and breaks an ankle, requiring surgery and cannot return to the ship; the companion opts to also not return. The cruise line will incur a fine of $1,524 for the two passengers because they never went to the foreign port -- they were simply transported between two U.S. ports -- Cape Liberty and Bar Harbor. It is up to the cruise line whether the charges will be passed along to the passengers via their onboard accounts.

In many cases, the cruise line can apply for and often receive a waiver from CBP for medical emergencies that require disembarkation, so it is advisable to notify the ship of an emergency in port that prevents you from returning. Be prepared to provide documentation that it is a true emergency. It may mean the difference between the fine being passed along or not.

 

Above is from a Cruise Critic article in 2020.  The line has the right to pass the cost on to the passenger..  It is currently $798 per person per government website, so not sure why the $143 difference.    There may also be an issue as to whether the medical emergency of one person required the disembarkation of the second.   But certainly it can take weeks, if not months, for a ship to be able to process a waiver/exemption request.  

 

From gov website:   

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act
September 2019
17
U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Penalty
* $300 for each passenger transported and landed on or before November 2,
2015.
* $798 for each passenger transported and landed after November 2, 2015.
* Issued to the vessel operator or carrier not the passenger.
CBP does not have the authority to settle charge disputes between
carriers that may have been issued penalties and their passengers

 

The PVSA is very detailed as to the process for "mitigation" and how it is filed and that is is ruled on as they are received.   We all know how quickly things are processed by many government agencies, so I would expect you would need to allow at least 6 months,

 

Thank you ! It was just my mom and dad in the sailing . My mom turned in a letter from the hospital that the hospital provided her to the ship on the day of the event  . We have full hospital records now to provide in case they ask for more documentation . 🙏 just hoping for the best or that at least they can give us proof of fee payment to submit to their travel insurance . Travel insurance said we have 90 days to submit claim receipts 

[craig01020]

4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

There are fines for leaving mid journey.

Cruise lines have no problem leaving you behind if you're late returning from a port of call.

[nelblu]

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

The penalty imposed for the unlawful transportation of passengers between coastwise

A medical emergency considered unlawful.  There's has to be some common sense otherwise it makes no sense.

[smokeybandit]

35 minutes ago, nelblu said:

A medical emergency considered unlawful.  There's has to be some common sense otherwise it makes no sense.

By rule it is unlawful. That doesn't mean the cruise line couldn't get a waiver.

[notscb]

20 hours ago, MommaBear55 said:

challenge this through the credit card

That won't suddenly absolve OP's parents of the debt.

RCL will just go directly after them via collections and as another commenter pointed out, likely get them banned from RCL in the future.

 

OP, you should write a brief email (specifics only, no feelings, no extra details) to executive relations explaining the situation and asking for a reversal of the exact amount (give them the actual number) of charges given the situation.

RoyalGuestRelations@rccl.com
Guestclaims@rccl.com

 

Wait a week for a response. If that doesn't work, work your way up- don't just email the CEO as the first line of defense- if they say "no", there's nobody else who can help you.

 

 

[notscb]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Elliot Group (though not a big fan)

 

You should check out Consumer Rescue- they're an offshoot of Elliott's original team and have been doing better work overall IMHO.

[nelblu]

5 minutes ago, notscb said:

That won't suddenly absolve OP's parents of the debt.

RCL will just go directly after them via collections and as another commenter pointed out, likely get them banned from RCL in the future.

But they have to provide documentation which is what the OP is simply asking.

[kearney]

If they have travel insurance...they will need documentation from the cruise line... assuming they have insurance and that it would cover this type of charge.

[Floridado2020]

15 minutes ago, kearney said:

If they have travel insurance...they will need documentation from the cruise line... assuming they have insurance and that it would cover this type of charge.

Yes the problem is the folio has the charges listed as “guest services” so we need a more specific receipt of the charges in order to submit to their travel insurance . Travel insurance told us they have 90 days to submit the appropriate receipts . We are awaiting for RCLs response on the charges and/or a proper receipt .

Thank you !

[Floridado2020]

28 minutes ago, notscb said:

That won't suddenly absolve OP's parents of the debt.

RCL will just go directly after them via collections and as another commenter pointed out, likely get them banned from RCL in the future.

 

OP, you should write a brief email (specifics only, no feelings, no extra details) to executive relations explaining the situation and asking for a reversal of the exact amount (give them the actual number) of charges given the situation.

RoyalGuestRelations@rccl.com
Guestclaims@rccl.com

 

Wait a week for a response. If that doesn't work, work your way up- don't just email the CEO as the first line of defense- if they say "no", there's nobody else who can help you.

 

 

Thank you !! That’s our plan . Will keep you all updated