Crew to Passenger Ratio / Cutbacks Impacting Service?

[NutsAboutGolf]

21 hours ago, deliver42 said:

Tom Sunday is the You Tuber, and he absolutely loves Celebrity, so don't think he's a hater.

 

Most cheerleaders define a hater as anyone who isn't providing 100% praise 🙃

 

As I've stated many times, without us non-cheerleaders getting them to make changes, you'd have vaping in the casino, only a 4 item dinner buffet, no MDR prime rib or ribeye, no free cookies at Cafe Al Bacio, no MDR classics, etc

[rmalbers]

The staffing levels described in that youtube link posted sounds like what I saw in Feb.  It was very noticeable.  The thing is, if you had not sailed X a lot before you would not know or notice the difference.  The workers that do want to make the cruise industry their career, migrate to the smaller ships like Viking, etc., over time.  It is a much better working environment on the small ships, even though it is still long days and work, of course.  

[Dolebludger]

There used to be a web site that reported crew/passenger ratios for all ships, but I’ve lost track of it. I would like to find it again. The idea is the closer to one crew member to one passenger, the better the service. This ratio is not a perfect indicator of service, as the crew number includes non-service crew. But we have found that the closer this ratio is to “1 to 1”, the better the service. For example, Silversea has a crew/passenger ratio of 1/1.25, meaning there i one crew member for 1.25 passengers. That is a ratio that indicates luxury service. In contrast, last I saw, NCL had a ratio of 1/2.7. In cruising these lines, the difference was very noticeable. This thread would be helped by having this ratio for Celebrity ships before and after the pandemic. 
 

Then, we wonder if crew shortages on some ships is the result of management decisions or the result of a shortage of available labor for these jobs. If the former, management deserves the “black eye” it is getting. If the latter, management may only be trying to get along with reduced availability of staff. I’m curious which is which. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Dolebludger

[the penguins]

30 minutes ago, rmalbers said:

The staffing levels described in that youtube link posted sounds like what I saw in Feb.  It was very noticeable.  The thing is, if you had not sailed X a lot before you would not know or notice the difference.  The workers that do want to make the cruise industry their career, migrate to the smaller ships like Viking, etc., over time.  It is a much better working environment on the small ships, even though it is still long days and work, of course.  

Curious where your evidence for migration comes from.

Over 80% of X 's staff returned post pandemic  and it would have been higher had it not been for vaccination/visa issues.

 

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

23 minutes ago, rmalbers said:

The staffing levels described in that youtube link posted sounds like what I saw in Feb.  It was very noticeable.  The thing is, if you had not sailed X a lot before you would not know or notice the difference.  The workers that do want to make the cruise industry their career, migrate to the smaller ships like Viking, etc., over time.  It is a much better working environment on the small ships, even though it is still long days and work, of course.  

 

Also higher odds they get more tips.  On my 2017 crystal cruise, every day I saw multiple people tip in cash with a $5 or higher for every drink.  This is despite all gratuities being included

 

The crew get virtually no benefits working in the cruise indrusty, can't blame some who have the ambition to get employed in a western country

[rmalbers]

7 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Curious where your evidence for migration comes from.

Over 80% of X 's staff returned post pandemic  and it would have been higher had it not been for vaccination/visa issues.

 

 

From talking to crew members on Viking.  I'm not saying they came from X, their backgrounds were from all brands of big cruise lines. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by rmalbers

[weregoingcruising]

13 hours ago, SusieAV8R said:

I am a very positive person and generally ignore negative comments.  However, I used to think that postings about about poor/lack of service/crew cutbacks was linked to cabin category.  Now I am not so certain.  I think it's folks' expectations and post covid, a larger number of folks are more criticall/negative.  ("The Age of Rage")  I have not experienced  "cutbacks in service ' a.k.a. slow service any different post covid  to pre-covid.   It occurred both before and after.  Maybe expectations changed after covid?  Mine did not.   And realistically, the same sometime slow/poor service has been experienced in shoreside restaurants.  Life is about choices, and if unhappy, try something else:  another cruise line or land based vacation.  Life really is too short to be negatively focused.

I don't know what happiness is.Is it a new car?Great sex?I have no clue. I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who once said."A man is just as happy as he makes up his mind to be." That's how I do it.

Edited November 12, 2023 by weregoingcruising
spelling

[Dolebludger]

Sure, if someone is satisfied with the current service level (at the current price) then there is no problem for that person. But clearly this is a problem for many. If 80% of crew returned post pandemic, there could still be a 20% shortage which would result in noticeable decreases in service. Now, I have been told that ship crews are not direct employees of the line. Instead, the line contracts with an international staffing agency for the crew. True or not? IDK. But it would be interesting to know if there is a staffing shortage involved here. There certainly is on land in the US hospitality industries. We live in Colorado where the mountain towns exist from the hospitality industry. Restaurants and hotels are grossly understaffed, in spite of ordering jobs at $20/hour+. I just wonder if cruise ships are having the same problem, or if management is trying to squeeze out the last nickel.

[PAHORNER]

Having just gotten off the Equinox on 11/5, the staff cutback was definitely noticeable. Bar servers in most bars were invisible. Every night after we were ready for the evening we would go to martini bar. Not one single night did we wait les than 40/45 just to be ask what we wanted.  If you are sitting less than 6 feet from the bar and it takes that long somethings wrong. You almost felt like you were bothering them. Now when you got the drink it was great, problem was getting it. 
 
The food in main dining room, nothing special, ok at best. This was our second Celebrity cruise, usually cruise HAL and Princess, so we  are not novice. The ship was lovely, itinerary great. Service and quality lacking. I remember be so excited to see all incredible selections on the nightly menus. Certainly was not that way any longer. Vacation is what you make it, we had a fantastic time, will cruise again probably not with Celebrity. 

 

[doghog]

Our recent Eclipse cruise we had no issues with getting drinks and waited on at the different bars we frequented (best service was at the Passport Bar) and the pool bar wait staff, and the sommelier always kept our wine glasses full in the MDR. No issues with our wait staff in the MDR (breakfast and supper) or our stateroom attendant. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by doghog

[39august]

I was on EQ in Oct. and had maybe a 3 minutes wait at Martini Bar to order a drink at a couple of different times in the evening. Hardly any wait at other bars except one night at World Class when they were slammed and it took about 5 minutes. Passport was the slowest at around their opening time of 3 PM. Not enough bartenders at that time for quite a few customers. 

[C4HCG]

25 minutes ago, doghog said:

Our recent Eclipse cruise we had no issues with getting drinks and waited on at the different bars we frequented (best service was at the Passport Bar) and the pool bar wait staff, and the sommelier always kept our wine glasses full in the MDR. No issues with our wait staff in the MDR (breakfast and supper) or our stateroom attendant. 

We had the same experience on Equinox in September, fantastic crew. Thanks to this Boards posts from those people who are not cheerleaders apparently 🤔

Edited November 12, 2023 by C4HCG

[C4HCG]

44 minutes ago, PAHORNER said:

Having just gotten off the Equinox on 11/5, the staff cutback was definitely noticeable. Bar servers in most bars were invisible. Every night after we were ready for the evening we would go to martini bar. Not one single night did we wait les than 40/45 just to be ask what we wanted.  If you are sitting less than 6 feet from the bar and it takes that long somethings wrong. You almost felt like you were bothering them. Now when you got the drink it was great, problem was getting it. 
 
The food in main dining room, nothing special, ok at best. This was our second Celebrity cruise, usually cruise HAL and Princess, so we  are not novice. The ship was lovely, itinerary great. Service and quality lacking. I remember be so excited to see all incredible selections on the nightly menus. Certainly was not that way any longer. Vacation is what you make it, we had a fantastic time, will cruise again probably not with Celebrity. 

 

Not doubting your word but we were on the same ship in September, full, and never had a problem getting served anywhere. Something must have changed.

[Dolebludger]

The above series of posts is evidence of understaffing. If a bar or restaurant facility is below capacity, short staffing can still result in good service. It is when the facility is totally full that short staffing will result in poor service. Places in the mountain tourist town where we live are short staffed due to a labor shortage. They have found a way to handle the problem, somewhat. They require visitors to be seated by staff. They won’t seat you, even if there are vacant tables, if staff is insufficient to serve those tables. This probably wouldn’t work on a cruise ship.

[PAHORNER]

52 minutes ago, C4HCG said:

Not doubting your word but we were on the same ship in September, full, and never had a problem getting served anywhere. Something must have changed.

Our experience was just that, our experience.I said we had a wonderful time. We were on that ship 8 nights, every night started the same, waiting in the martini bar for 40/45 minutes. Short staffed. That was what my husband and I personally experienced. 

[C4HCG]

32 minutes ago, PAHORNER said:

Our experience was just that, our experience.I said we had a wonderful time. We were on that ship 8 nights, every night started the same, waiting in the martini bar for 40/45 minutes. Short staffed. That was what my husband and I personally experienced. 

As I said, never doubted you. If I’d had to wait 40/45 minutes for a drink every night that would have gone a long way to spoiling my cruise, glad you had a wonderful time regardless. 

[the penguins]

4 hours ago, rmalbers said:

From talking to crew members on Viking.  I'm not saying they came from X, their backgrounds were from all brands of big cruise lines. 

That's not what you implied in your original post. Clearly when you only have a few ships each small and only needing relatively few crew recruiting experienced staff makes sense.

[phoenix_dream]

Did a recent B2B on Eclipse.  We were in the Retreat.  Overall, the only diminishing in service I felt was the lack of a dedicated butler.  Don't want to move this thread in that direction as its been discussed ad nauseum so please don't take it there.  Anyway, while service was still very good I did feel like the staff was feeling overwhelmed and overworked.  Don't get me wrong - no one complained about it to me. But I am particularly good at reading body language and I always feel a strong connection to the staff, and I definitely felt they were very stressed out with the excess workload.  Not sure how long they can hold out under these circumstances.

[the penguins]

3 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Sure, if someone is satisfied with the current service level (at the current price) then there is no problem for that person. But clearly this is a problem for many. If 80% of crew returned post pandemic, there could still be a 20% shortage which would result in noticeable decreases in service. Now, I have been told that ship crews are not direct employees of the line. Instead, the line contracts with an international staffing agency for the crew. True or not? IDK. But it would be interesting to know if there is a staffing shortage involved here. There certainly is on land in the US hospitality industries. We live in Colorado where the mountain towns exist from the hospitality industry. Restaurants and hotels are grossly understaffed, in spite of ordering jobs at $20/hour+. I just wonder if cruise ships are having the same problem, or if management is trying to squeeze out the last nickel.

The 80% I quoted was the overall figure given by X in a Q and A on Silhouette. This does not mean they are short of staff just that overall 20% of the staff was new to X but not necessarily new to the cruise industry  - our wonderful sommelier on Reflection was from MSC.

As X said when the first few ships started sailing filling the ships with crew was easy but it became increasingly difficult as more crew was needed and the first crews started to come to the end of their contracts. Taking into account the Covid vacination/quarantine requirements at the time it took up to 6 weeks from X offering a job until the crew member was able to start work on the ship. The crew were paid throughout this period.

The fact that 80% came back, when you take into account the length of time the ships were idle, the problems for staff in many countries getting approved vaccines and visas plus the loss of staff from Russia, Ukraine etc is amazing.

X has now set up recruitment offices  / programmes in many countries outside of it's traditional areas including in the Caribbean and South America.

We noticed no reduction in service on our Reflection TA in October.

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, PAHORNER said:

Our experience was just that, our experience.I said we had a wonderful time. We were on that ship 8 nights, every night started the same, waiting in the martini bar for 40/45 minutes. Short staffed. That was what my husband and I personally experienced. 

Just curious.

Waiting once I can understand but after that did you raise the matter with a Senior Manager /Officer?

I have lost count of the number of Hotel Directors who have said that its no good posting this sort of comment on line or putting it in the surveys - raise it on the ship so the issue can be addressed or at least they can explain why nothing can be done.

 

[KansasK]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:29 PM, deliver42 said:

Our wonderful president is bringing staffing level equal to RCCL, but at a very premium price.

Has Celebrity gone to once a day cabin cleaning yet?  Royal had this and while we adapted to it because nobody has any oher choice, it is a definite drop in service.  The main dining room food was not good in that there was so little variety in side dishes and the concept of every night serving food from a different country does not work well with cutting back on the food served. I am trying Celebrity in April and trying Carnival in July,  We try to adapt to the changes, but felt we are no longer getting what we paid for. 

[buncosquad]

Our experience is that service has been excellent on all four of our Celebrity cruises.*

 

*We've only sailed with Celebrity on the Beyond and only in Iconic Suites and Edge Villas. Four cruises total so far on Celebrity and we made Elite+ after our fourth cruise. We don't travel to earn points, rather we go by brand/location/itinerary. 

 

Perhaps service is lacking around every ship, which is sad, but our experience (to counter others' experiences) has been great.

 

In fact, we've booked an 11-night Caribbean on Beyond in another IC and an 18-night transpacific in an IC on Edge.

 

Total satisfaction with Celebrity.

 

World Class Bar and Cafe al Baccio are our favorite hang-outs, so will miss World Class on Edge.

[hcat]

2 hours ago, PAHORNER said:

Our experience was just that, our experience.I said we had a wonderful time. We were on that ship 8 nights, every night started the same, waiting in the martini bar for 40/45 minutes. Short staffed. That was what my husband and I personally experienced. 

we would not be so patient..that's way too long.. why didn't you try another bar?    

[Dolebludger]

Suites of the level of IS and EV still have dedicated butler service, unless I am misinformed. And they also have included use of the mini fridge, included specialty restaurants, and some other perks. These things would make it difficult for me to say service was lacking. I suspect that matters are different outside of the higher level suites in the Retreat. On our last two Celebrity cruises (pre-pandemic) we were in CS and RS . Even then, I could detect that service in the Retreat was far better than outside the Retreat. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Dolebludger

[jean87510]

47 minutes ago, buncosquad said:

Our experience is that service has been excellent on all four of our Celebrity cruises.*

 

*We've only sailed with Celebrity on the Beyond and only in Iconic Suites and Edge Villas. Four cruises total so far on Celebrity and we made Elite+ after our fourth cruise. We don't travel to earn points, rather we go by brand/location/itinerary. 

 

Perhaps service is lacking around every ship, which is sad, but our experience (to counter others' experiences) has been great.

 

In fact, we've booked an 11-night Caribbean on Beyond in another IC and an 18-night transpacific in an IC on Edge.

 

Total satisfaction with Celebrity.

 

World Class Bar and Cafe al Baccio are our favorite hang-outs, so will miss World Class on Edge.

Seeing that you have only sailed in the Iconic and Edge Villa on a new edge class ship, I am truly not surprised you are totally satisfied.  I think 99% of us would probably be satisfied as well a la Thurston Howe III.