A few flight tips...

[Stockjock]

I wanted to follow up on this post.  As mentioned, I needed a flight from BCN to SAN using award miles, but nothing was available at a reasonable number of award points on the date in question.  I booked a total of 4 flights within a day or two of what I actually wanted, in the hopes that at least one of them would be cancelled or substantially modified, so that I could get what I really wanted at the point level I was comfortable spending.  

One person here gave me a hard time about my strategy, because in his view, some random person might not get exactly the award seats he or she wanted at exactly the award level they wanted, and of course I don't personally care about that.  I also mentioned that the flights in question appear to be mostly empty, and was given a hard time about this as well, but whatever.

Today, the last flight I booked on November 29, yep the one with the massive layover in Prague, was cancelled/changed and it was a schedule change of over 24 hours, although I think they tend to accommodate a flight change if it's one hour or more.

The airline changed it to a 1-stop flight on the date that I wanted, with a 90 minute layover, and upgraded the seats to Economy Plus for the trouble for no extra charge.  I'll now be cancelling the other 3 flights, so that poor soul in Toledo (or wherever) might get precisely the award seats he or she wants and the exact award level that they are comfortable with.  I feel confident that Saint Peter will approve, once I meet him at the Pearly Gates.

The strategy worked perfectly.  Only took a few weeks to get what I was after.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Stockjock

[NMTraveller]

This is truly an interesting strategy.  I think that most of my flights this year were rescheduled and I was able to choose new times for most if not all of them...

 

 

[Stockjock]

58 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

This is truly an interesting strategy.  I think that most of my flights this year were rescheduled and I was able to choose new times for most if not all of them...

 

 

I didn't read about it elsewhere.  Created in my own devious mind, lol. 

One nice thing about UAL is that they typically have the authority to do a minor seat upgrade (Economy to Economy Plus, in my case) in the event of a schedule change, such as what I've described.  I don't think every airline has that authority, i.e. AA does not unless it's a supervisor making the change.

But it worked out perfectly for me.  I'm fine w/Economy Plus and I think I got the best seats in that category.  This took me about 3 weeks, but of course there was no guarantee it would be successful.

I think that the longer and more convoluted the flight itinerary booked (many hours, multiple airlines, long layovers), the better the odds that a flight will be cancelled or substantially modified.  Fortunately, these are also the flights that are typically the cheapest in terms of award travel. 

Just to clarify my earlier post, 3 of the 4 flights were within 2 days of what I actually was after.  The 4th was 6 days after my target date.  That one was very cheap at only 21k award miles per person, but it was the funky, long flight 1 day before my target date that ended up being cancelled (30k per person).  Had I simply booked it outright, I think the cost was 76,000 award miles per person, so 60k miles for my strategy versus 152k.  Pretty big difference.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Stockjock

[Stockjock]

Just to add one more thing.  In terms of the Economy Plus seats we were comped, had I bought them, they would have been $197 each from BCN to NYC and $197 each also from NYC to SAN.  So not only am I getting the award seats for less than half of the posted price, but also receiving $788 in seat upgrades for no cost.

I know some prefer business class, and of course I do too, but it's far more expensive and requires a ton of additional miles or cash.  My GF and I are fine with something like Economy Plus, as that extra room makes a pretty big difference.  Well, to me it does, as I'm about 6'0 and she's roughly a foot shorter, so it's not like she needs a lot of leg room.

[6rugrats]

If someone gave you an E+ seat for this flight at no charge, they did so against UA rules, and I’m not sure why.

As an aside E+ is not considered an upgrade.

[Stockjock]

2 hours ago, 6rugrats said:

If someone gave you an E+ seat for this flight at no charge, they did so against UA rules, and I’m not sure why.

As an aside E+ is not considered an upgrade.

I don't believe that's true.  I've had this occur before, and the agent, who was not a supervisor, told me that they had the ability to do this.  It's the 2nd or 3rd time it's happened, and no supervisors involved.  I had requested Premium Economy (didn't think I'd get it, but can't hurt to ask), and the agent said, "In the case of a schedule change, I am not allowed to move you to Premium Economy."  I asked, "Are you allowed to move me to Economy Plus", and the answer was, "Yes I am.  Which seats would you like?"

AA, on the other hand, apparently requires a supervisor to provide any form of seat upgrade, even minor and they've told me so several times.  In fact, an AA supervisor also told me this.

As a side note, when requesting an upgrade, I did so in a polite and non-demanding way.  Had they said "no", I wouldn't have argued in favor of one.  I see no harm in asking for what you're after.  The worst they can do is deny the request.  Heck, I've even requested a Business Class upgrade.  It's always been denied, but again, no harm in asking.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Stockjock

[6rugrats]

I am not sure what you think isn't true.  E+ is not considered an upgrade, it's still in economy class.  It is not SOP to hand out free E+ seats for a schedule change while speaking with a pax on the phone (I have no idea how far in the future your flight is).  You may get a free  E+ seat if there are no other seats left to assign, but this is usually up to the gate agent to decide right before boarding, and they have criteria they are supposed to use in deciding who to give a free E+ seat to.  Of course, if they have to get the flight out, sometimes they do the best they can.

 

Rules have changed from 20 years ago, and everyone on the flight that has requested an upgrade to business, supported by money, miles or PlusPoints, is watching that upgrade list like a hawk.  They are not going to sit quietly if they see someone not on the list above them get an upgrade.  Even NRSAs are watching their list and will raise hell if they feel they have been passed over for someone with less seniority.  UA doesn't give away free upgrades on international flights, they don't give Club passes if you feel you've been inconvenienced, etc.  

 

Every agent is empowered to issue you a small travel credit or miles to your MP account, or a meal voucher, but major things because they just feel like it?  No.

Edited December 18, 2023 by 6rugrats

[Stockjock]

18 minutes ago, 6rugrats said:

I am not sure what you think isn't true.  E+ is not considered an upgrade, it's still in economy class.  It is not SOP to hand out free E+ seats for a schedule change while speaking with a pax on the phone (I have no idea how far in the future your flight is).  You may get a free  E+ seat if there are no other seats left to assign, but this is usually up to the gate agent to decide right before boarding, and they have criteria they are supposed to use in deciding who to give a free E+ seat to.  Of course, if they have to get the flight out, sometimes they do the best they can.

 

Rules have changed from 20 years ago, and everyone on the flight that has requested an upgrade to business, supported by money, miles or PlusPoints, is watching that upgrade list like a hawk.  They are not going to sit quietly if they see someone not on the list above them get an upgrade.  Even NRSAs are watching their list and will raise hell if they feel they have been passed over for someone with less seniority.  UA doesn't give away free upgrades on international flights, they don't give Club passes if you feel you've been inconvenienced, etc.  

 

Every agent is empowered to issue you a small travel credit or miles to your MP account, or a meal voucher, but major things because they just feel like it?  No.

So it has happened twice now with UA in the span of 4-5 months or so.  I guess it was my imagination.  

I consider E+ an upgrade.  I don't really care what a given airline's formal definition is.  If booked a standard seat with limited leg room and I'm moved into a E+ seat w/nearly unlimited legroom, in my book, that's an upgrade.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Stockjock

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, Stockjock said:

 I don't really care what a given airline's formal definition is. 

 

Goes along with "I don't care about anyone else".  And "I've got a gimmick, and look how great it works". And "I talked the airline into giving me X".

 

Why do I take this all with a large grain of salt?

 

BTW....how many levels of cabin upgrade do you get on your cruises?  We all want to know the secrets.

[voyager1964]

So you buy several flights with award points/miles while they are cheap, wait for schedule change, get what you want and then release back what you don't? Here is the flaw in the plan as I see it: when you release the award flights, they are sold to your competitors by the dynamic pricing, much > miles than you paid...

[d9704011]

31 minutes ago, voyager1964 said:

So you buy several flights with award points/miles while they are cheap, wait for schedule change, get what you want and then release back what you don't? Here is the flaw in the plan as I see it: when you release the award flights, they are sold to your competitors by the dynamic pricing, much > miles than you paid...

I don't believe the OP sees this as a flaw.  He has already stated that he is not concerned about other people.

[Stockjock]

2 hours ago, d9704011 said:

I don't believe the OP sees this as a flaw.  He has already stated that he is not concerned about other people.

In this context, I couldn't care less.  I have no control over what the airlines do in terms of their inventory, or how many points/miles/dollars they charge.

P.S. Ideally, one can purchase what they want from the onset, which is what I did on the outbound flight.  I think I booked on the day it was released, or shortly thereafter.  But there were no good options on the return flight, so this strategy worked out well.

But for those who don't want to do it, then don't do it.  Spend double or triple the points, if it makes you happy.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Stockjock

[Zach1213]

19 hours ago, Stockjock said:

I consider E+ an upgrade.  I don't really care what a given airline's formal definition is.  If booked a standard seat with limited leg room and I'm moved into a E+ seat w/nearly unlimited legroom, in my book, that's an upgrade.

 

I get that. Just be aware that there are actual definitions in air travel and they can matter. Your own definition may be that E+ is an upgrade, but it technically isn't. Much like direct and nonstop flights are very different. Just things to be aware of (more for the greater good of others reading)...E+ is not, in fact, an upgrade...it's the same seat and service with a few extra inches of legroom (not that there's ever anything wrong with a few extra inches........)

[Stockjock]

8 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

I get that. Just be aware that there are actual definitions in air travel and they can matter. Your own definition may be that E+ is an upgrade, but it technically isn't. Much like direct and nonstop flights are very different. Just things to be aware of (more for the greater good of others reading)...E+ is not, in fact, an upgrade...it's the same seat and service with a few extra inches of legroom (not that there's ever anything wrong with a few extra inches........)

I understand.  I referred to it as an upgrade from my personal perspective only, i.e. a seat with massive legroom is a major "upgrade" from a seat where you have very little legroom.

[richart]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:46 PM, Stockjock said:

I feel confident that Saint Peter will approve, once I meet him at the Pearly Gates.
The strategy worked perfectly.  Only took a few weeks to get what I was after.

LOL! I hope your final flight to the Pearly Gates doesn't get cancelled/changed.

[clo]

On 11/29/2023 at 12:39 PM, Stockjock said:

As an ex-cop, I am quite direct. 

Of all the words that come to my mind here, "direct" sure isn't one of them.

BTW I've traveled to six continents and have never had to resort to such.

[clo]

On 12/18/2023 at 2:30 PM, FlyerTalker said:

 

Goes along with "I don't care about anyone else".  And "I've got a gimmick, and look how great it works". And "I talked the airline into giving me X".

 

Why do I take this all with a large grain of salt?

 

BTW....how many levels of cabin upgrade do you get on your cruises?  We all want to know the secrets.

Times a gazillion.

[SelectSys]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:51 PM, Stockjock said:

i.e. a seat with massive legroom is a major "upgrade" from a seat where you have very little legroom.

Especially if you are tall!  Some of the bulkhead seats in normal economy are worth way more to me than a premium economy middle seat.

[Stockjock]

2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Especially if you are tall!  Some of the bulkhead seats in normal economy are worth way more to me than a premium economy middle seat.

I agree 100%. I am roughly 6 foot tall or 183 cm, and those extra inches make a massive difference.  If I spend $100+ for a seat with an extra 5 inches of legroom, to me, that’s an excellent value and well worth the cost.  
 

Spending thousands of dollars for a lie flat seat is something that I could pay without blinking, but to me, it’s just not a good value. I know that some disagree with that, and of course I respect that opinion.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Stockjock

[SNUBES]

On 11/29/2023 at 5:12 PM, Stockjock said:

P.S. Alaska doesn't fly to Europe, but you can book European travel on Alaska via their partners, or some combination of the partners and Alaska.

Partners include, but aren't limited to, American Airlines, Air Lingus, Finn Air, Iceland Air, etc.  So you might book something like this: Air Lingus BCN to DUB.  Air Lingus DUB to SEA.  Alaska SEA to SAN.

That's right. I booked our HNL to SYD flight in Biz class on Qantas through Alaska Airline website and it was about 1K cheaper per person then on Qantas site. Also booked Air Tahiti Nui PPT to LAX in Biz on Qantas site for same 1K pp cheaper then ATN site.

Also found it was a lot cheaper to have two separate tickets for each leg then one all the way trough for Biz class ticket. It pays to play airline games.

 

[Globaliser]

8 minutes ago, SNUBES said:

Also found it was a lot cheaper to have two separate tickets for each leg then one all the way trough for Biz class ticket. It pays to play airline games.

 

As long as you know what the downside is, and how you plan to manage the disadvantages, hassle and risk.

[SNUBES]

1 minute ago, Globaliser said:

 

As long as you know what the downside is, and how you plan to manage the disadvantages, hassle and risk.

Yes, absolutely, everything needs to be taken in consideration to have a successful trip. For somebody who flies a lot, as in my case, cancelling, booking, re-booking, taking flight vouchers/credits and using them is not a problem. For Biz class savings of a couple of thousands per ticket it's worth it. For economy, savings of a couple of hundred definitely not worth it.

[grandma*knows*best]

On 12/18/2023 at 3:01 PM, Stockjock said:

So it has happened twice now with UA in the span of 4-5 months or so.  I guess it was my imagination.  

I consider E+ an upgrade.  I don't really care what a given airline's formal definition is.  If booked a standard seat with limited leg room and I'm moved into a E+ seat w/nearly unlimited legroom, in my book, that's an upgrade.

You need to learn your opinion is not fact.  E+ is NOT an upgrade and it is not UA’s policy to move people into E+ because they ask.  Of course, some agents don’t follow the rules.  E+ certainly does not have unlimited leg room.

[Zach1213]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:57 PM, grandma*knows*best said:

You need to learn your opinion is not fact.  E+ is NOT an upgrade and it is not UA’s policy to move people into E+ because they ask.  Of course, some agents don’t follow the rules.  E+ certainly does not have unlimited leg room.