Is tipping mandatory

[Joe33472]

21 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

Pretty much the same as starting a sentence with I'm not a racist but......

 

Interesting that you mentioned race.   I was just googling tipping culture in the US to better understand where all this tipping is coming from and apparently tipping in the US finds its origins in racism and sexism. 

 

I’m guilty as the next person of participating and perpetuating the tipping culture.  I wouldn’t remove auto-gratuities and have budgeted an onboard amount for additional tips.  I guess I look at the issue pragmatically.  Workers should be paid a fair wage, but many are not, and rely upon tips to support themselves and their families.   I guess I just hope that RCI is allocating the funds fairly as a motivation to provide excellent service.   I think it’s the “black box” nature of that allocation that some people don’t like.  

 

I’m surprised an employee hasn’t “leaked” some document or other information about how this really works.  Or maybe they don’t even know?    

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Joe33472

[ChutChut]

Tip if you desire. Don't if you want. It's all up to you. That's the beauty of "discretionary." 

[ChutChut]

15 minutes ago, Joe33472 said:

 

Interesting that you mentioned race.   I was just googling tipping culture in the US to better understand where all this tipping is coming from and apparently tipping in the US finds its origins in racism and sexism. 

 

I’m guilty as the next person of participating and perpetuating the tipping culture.  I wouldn’t remove auto-gratuities and have budgeted an onboard amount for additional tips.  I guess I look at the issue pragmatically.  Workers should be paid a fair wage, but many are not, and rely upon tips to support themselves and their families.   I guess I just hope that RCI is allocating the funds fairly as a motivation to provide excellent service.   I think it’s the “black box” nature of that allocation that some people don’t like.  

 

I’m surprised an employee hasn’t “leaked” some document or other information about how this really works.  Or maybe they don’t even know?    

 

Tipping was a "thing" long before the Civil War. As such, it did not come about as a result of the 13th or 15th Amendment. Southern Democrat business owners (e.g. restaurants, railroads, etc.) took advantage of it to pay - mostly black - workers a low wage and reap greater profits for themselves. Southern Democrat politicians attempted to ban tipping in several southern states because they felt whites shouldn't have to "lower" themselves to tip blacks. Those laws were either deemed unconstitutional or overturned for other reasons. The ability to tip was then codified into federal law in the 1930s (I believe) and allowed. 

 

I tip to reward great service. If I were to stop tipping now, it would be hurting the very people who need it the most. It's fine to lobby the cruise lines, etc. to do away with tipping (increasing fares) and just pay their people more. But how do we know any increase in wage (with no tip) will be greater than what they have now (lower wage with generous tipping). I guess it's up to cruise employees to make their opinions known. 

[Moltar]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:58 PM, Missusdubbya said:

Just FYI in case you don’t realise, on RCI and Celebrity your gratuities are included in your cruise fare when booking on the Australian website. 
 

I must add here that I am Australian and I always tip where it is culturally expected - aligning with other cultures is part of responsible travel.

I don't think I've ever been more impressed with a post. You won the internet today in my book. I couldn't agree more.

[UNCFanatik]

Remove the auto-gratuities. Tipping is not mandatory unless Royal forces it on you. 

 

If tipping is supposed to be a reward for good service, then why the mandatory 18% tacked onto food/beverage purchases made on cruise planner? Its really a service fee. How do I even know if that 18% makes it to the crew on my sailing? Why pay for service BEFORE it is rendered.

 

AND with the cutbacks in room cleaning, the daily auto-grats went UP not DOWN. So, we are supposed to pay MORE for LESS service??? 

 

My cruise fare helps the cruise line hire more staff. Royal is responsible for compensating their staff, not me. Im not stiffing or hurting anyone because I paid the advertised fare and removed the auto-grats

 

I say let Royal and other competitors raise their fares and eliminate and auto-gratuities and let the free market sort it all out. They could have already been doing this but dont. Tells you all you need to know about their employment practices. 

[not-enough-cruising]

10 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Which just shows what a stupid and idiotic thing the entire tipping culture is. I mean the chef can spend hours providing you with the best dish you have ever eaten, working furiously in a hot kitchen but the waiter can stroll out with a smile and gets the tips.

The chef is paid MUCH better 

[UNCFanatik]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The chef is paid MUCH better 

Not necessarily. On an hourly basis, the server at a high end restaurant can make more. Also, at a chef owned restaurant, the Chef may be scraping by for restaurant to succeed. 

 

Then in restaurants where there is just a kitchen manager and no chefs, servers can definitely make more on tips then the kitchen manager will earn. 

 

 

[UNCFanatik]

yes, tipping culture is stupid. How many people in the US care about how much a cook makes in a restaurant? Do you think people in the US care that the tipping culture leads to sexism, ageism, racism, sexual harassment, unfair wage practices, etc...etc..etc...

 

Tipping culture is out of control in the US. 

[sanger727]

17 hours ago, glentally said:

Let me explain it for you  sanger000.  The $20 or more I slip them is WELL OVER the $180  (pre Gratuities) they split up amongst 1200 employees.  Nothing Selfish. Why would you say that?  My previous post is below, nothing about MY pleasure? 

"I am amazed at the pleasure I see from the recipient receiving tips when not expected or larger than the normal. "

 

Right, except on the back end they are losing their pay. It's as if your employer gives you an unexpected $200 bonus; so you are extremely appreciative. And then when you get your paycheck you were docked $180. 

[smokeybandit]

Yes the tipping culture in the USA is insane. It has gotten even worse as we came out of covid.

But tipping needs to go back to being a "thanks for good service" and not a mandatory fee.  

[not-enough-cruising]

12 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

Not necessarily. On an hourly basis, the server at a high end restaurant can make more. Also, at a chef owned restaurant, the Chef may be scraping by for restaurant to succeed. 

 

Then in restaurants where there is just a kitchen manager and no chefs, servers can definitely make more on tips then the kitchen manager will earn. 

 

 

“On an hourly basis” included tips. 
 

the chef’s base salary is higher than the servers, was my point. 

[UNCFanatik]

2 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

“On an hourly basis” included tips. 
 

the chef’s base salary is higher than the servers, was my point. 

most case...yes. 

 

Chef owned and operated restaurant, chef may be taking limited salary in first couple of years or depending on capital backer 

[Joe33472]

6 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Yes the tipping culture in the USA is insane. It has gotten even worse as we came out of covid.

But tipping needs to go back to being a "thanks for good service" and not a mandatory fee.  

 

At a national chain bagel store, the last couple of times I go in to get a dozen unsliced bagels, I asked to charge my purchase.  On the screen it comes up with the amount of tip I want to include.  There is no option to remove the tip.  The minimum is $1, which I don't mind tipping $1 and would probably leave that in cash or the change if the change was like $.75 or more, but actually requiring a tip, that's a bit much.  This weekend I'm going to bring some cash and see what happens then.   I'll probably put the same $1 in the jar, but requiring me to tip 🤷‍♂️  I'm not even having the bagels sliced, it's like putting 13 bagels in a bag.   Exceptional service how?   

 

 

[travelberlin]

12 minutes ago, Joe33472 said:

 

At a national chain bagel store, the last couple of times I go in to get a dozen unsliced bagels, I asked to charge my purchase.  On the screen it comes up with the amount of tip I want to include.  There is no option to remove the tip.  The minimum is $1, which I don't mind tipping $1 and would probably leave that in cash or the change if the change was like $.75 or more, but actually requiring a tip, that's a bit much.  This weekend I'm going to bring some cash and see what happens then.   I'll probably put the same $1 in the jar, but requiring me to tip 🤷‍♂️  I'm not even having the bagels sliced, it's like putting 13 bagels in a bag.   Exceptional service how?   

 

 

Your example shows how ridiculous it is. I have read that many stores are requiring self checkout but at the end it comes a tip request at the bill 😳

[glentally]

31 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Right, except on the back end they are losing their pay. It's as if your employer gives you an unexpected $200 bonus; so you are extremely appreciative. And then when you get your paycheck you were docked $180. 

Your math and comparison is fuzzy and murky.  Let me help you.  So it's like you got $30 from the 

person in Cabin 3003 and your money from the tip pool is now $0.50 less than if the $30 was given to everyone!

[sanger727]

2 minutes ago, glentally said:

Your math and comparison is fuzzy and murky.  Let me help you.  So it's like you got $30 from the 

person in Cabin 3003 and your money from the tip pool is now $0.50 less than if the $30 was given to everyone!

 

You seriously believe that the employer doesn't hold it against the employee that their customers removed the tips? We live in different worlds. 

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, sanger727 said:

 

You seriously believe that the employer doesn't hold it against the employee that their customers removed the tips? We live in different worlds. 

As the percentage of cruisers removing the auto gratuity grows, the employer has to see it for what it is- a message from the clientele. 

[travelberlin]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

As the percentage of cruisers removing the auto gratuity grows, the employer has to see it for what it is- a message from the clientele. 

You are right, but the porcentaje of people removing gratuities will not increase. Look how many people are defending the custom. And this happens in all threads about this subject. It is amazing. 

[sanger727]

5 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

As the percentage of cruisers removing the auto gratuity grows, the employer has to see it for what it is- a message from the clientele. 

 

Maybe that is your perspective. auto gratuities aren't going away. The cruise line is using them to pay their employees so won't give that up. It's more effective for them to punish the employees whose customers remove gratuities to get them to encourage people to leave them on.

 

Yes, technically cruise lines are committed to make up the minimum contract pay. I used to waitress and the restaurant had guarantee us minimum wage and make up the difference if we didn't make that in tips. Do you really think they kept servers on that they had to pay? 

Edited December 19, 2023 by sanger727

[livingonthebeach]

17 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

You seriously believe that the employer doesn't hold it against the employee that their customers removed the tips? We live in different worlds. 

 

How on God's Green Earth would they know which employee (if any) was responsible for a passenger removing the auto grats? 

[Tatka]

12 hours ago, time4u2go said:

What?  This sentence confuses me.  "Switch" people?  "Less $400-500"?

How long ago you started cruising? We started in 2003. At that time there was no collected gratuities. It was all cash with recommended amounts. 3.50 to waiter, 3.50 to steward and so on. Basically gratuities were paid directly to people who served you. They were getting sometimes very large amounts (of course as they were all cash not everyone paid) even $4k+ 

 

At the same time non customer facing crew was paid very low amounts. $400-500 a months. I talked to many crew from Eastern Europe in various positions. (Customer facing and not) Some from counties which used to be parts of mine before dissolution. 
 

Since moving to autogratuities pay for lowest positions was increased to min $1200, and now it’s higher. 

[grandgeezer]

It is up to the cruise line, not the customer, to make sure the employees make a livable wage. They can do that by raising their base pay or find a way to make tipping mandatory. Until them it’s between the employee and employer, the customer has no responsibility in this case.

[UNCFanatik]

16 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

It is up to the cruise line, not the customer, to make sure the employees make a livable wage. They can do that by raising their base pay or find a way to make tipping mandatory. Until them it’s between the employee and employer, the customer has no responsibility in this case.

 

Amen. 

 

and they already do make tipping mandatory with cruise planner food/bev purchases and mandatory 18% added on for any drinks you order at a bar. So that $8 beer costs you $9.44 cause you know its worth $1.44 for a bartender just to hand you a beer. Crazy. 

 

But dont tell people this with savior complexes when it comes to the crew...

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

What is funny is that the auto-gratuities are LESS than I remember my mom being told she needed to set aside for our first cruise (back in the 80s). Then it was broken out - server, beverage server, stateroom attendant...maybe one other - and I don't remember specific amounts, but I know it was more per envelope than what the auto gratuities give them now. She's even commented that the tip amounts automatically deducted are less than the recommended amounts back then.

[sanger727]

59 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

How on God's Green Earth would they know which employee (if any) was responsible for a passenger removing the auto grats? 

 

They know which staff serve which guest. No, unless you complain about a specific staff member, they don't know which staff member triggered you to take off tips. But generally speaking, if you take off the wait staff tips, its reasonable to assume you were unhappy with your wait staff team. If you take off the room stewards tips, its reasonable to assume you were unhappy with your room steward team. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by sanger727