Is tipping mandatory

[Tatka]

4 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

They don’t pay U.S. taxes on any monies they collect as they are incorporated in Liberia to avoid all U.S.taxes as well as labor laws. The ships are registered in the Bahamas.
 

Only the corporate office is based in Miami - the executives and other workers at headquarters I would assume pay U.S. taxes on their earned income and bonuses.

Other than that and port taxes they pay to ports of call, that’s about all the taxes they pay. If there’s a shortage for crew pay, the shortfall could be taken out of the savings they realize by not paying U.S. corporate taxes, rather than the pockets of passengers already paying lofty fares.

 

I know it is registered in Liberia. They do pay taxes here, also they give lots of business to US.

[gmerick]

@HappyTexan44 - My understanding after reading things from about 8 lawsuits is everything from prepaid gratuities, the 18% tacked onto bills, and the additional tips signed for on receipts all go into the pool.  How I understand the pool is divided up, everyone gets a share of the pool based on points.  A crew member with 15 points would get 1/3 of what a member with 45 points gets, but a members share will not drop below the guaranteed minimum. 

The big issue in the lawsuits was that the cash tips received did not go to the pool, and sometimes made up a great majority of the members pay.  When a crew member was involuntarily temporarily removed from a tip lucrative position (like sanitizing the ship, or medical restriction), RCCL would not make up for the cash tips.

[goldfish65]

3 hours ago, HappyTexan44 said:

@gmerick Could you explain more your understanding of that lawsuit?    It sounds like it is about some positions getting much more than the minimum.   That doesn't make sense to me.  Or maybe it is some complaining that others are getting paid more than them?  

It also jumped out at me that extra tips added to the bill were added to the pool.  That would tick me off.  

 

I agree, when I tip an additional amount, I want it to go to the specific person, that's why we always bring an ample supply of assorted denominations. 

[HappyTexan44]

33 minutes ago, gmerick said:

@HappyTexan44 - My understanding after reading things from about 8 lawsuits is everything from prepaid gratuities, the 18% tacked onto bills, and the additional tips signed for on receipts all go into the pool.  How I understand the pool is divided up, everyone gets a share of the pool based on points.  A crew member with 15 points would get 1/3 of what a member with 45 points gets, but a members share will not drop below the guaranteed minimum. 

The big issue in the lawsuits was that the cash tips received did not go to the pool, and sometimes made up a great majority of the members pay.  When a crew member was involuntarily temporarily removed from a tip lucrative position (like sanitizing the ship, or medical restriction), RCCL would not make up for the cash tips.

Thinking about this, Royal created this problem by having everyone and their dog included in the 'tip' pool.    
 

[livingonthebeach]

2 hours ago, Tatka said:

 

I know it is registered in Liberia. They do pay taxes here, also they give lots of business to US.

 

I don't know what you mean by "here".  They are a foreign corporation and as such are not required to pay U.S. corporate taxes.  Maybe they pay a small amount of their operating revenue from U.S. sources but I think they found a loophole around this through section 882 of the tax code.  They have cruise ships all over the world and revenue from many parts all over the globe which they owe no taxes on. 

 

That they give business to suppliers in the U.S., mainly Florida, Texas, California, New York, New Jersey and Maryland, I agree with. 

[vjmatty]

15 hours ago, Debgra6057 said:

Well now, I did not realise this, so thank you for sharing.  I will still give my Steward an extra tip, as I always do.  Happy cruising people.

Better to over tip than to tip over….

[sanger727]

7 hours ago, glentally said:

Being the OP I would like to thank Debgra6057 for jumping in the firepit for me. 

 

Someone said the whole thing is murky with mixed info from various people and assorted rules with how the cruise lines apply your tips.  Let me add to the murkiness. 

 

I was on a MSC cruise this year and another "tip expert" told me MSC uses the tips for their wages first and if the tips are not enough to meet the contracted wage MSC adds more.

 

I did the folded $20's in my hand and shook the hands of the appropriate people.  I travel internationally a lot and am amazed at the pleasure I see from the recipient receiving tips when not expected or larger than the normal.  Isn't that what tipping is?  I'm sorry but tipping the guy or girl running the dishwashing machine in the bowels of the ship doesn't make a lot of sense nor should I feel bad. When I was 12 and cleaning the bathroom and floors at the local restaurant no one shared their tips.  I worked hard, moved up to fry cook and eventually a waiter. That's Life.

 

 

Cruise lines have contracted minimum wages, just like a restaurant does. As you know, when you are wait staff you are guaranteed minimum wage by your employer and if your tipped income doesn't meet that they have to make up the difference. However, most wait staff exceed minimum wage with tips. Cruise lines are the same way, yes, they are guaranteed their minimum wage, but with tips they should exceed it. The auto grats are designed to fairly compensate the staff and give them some guarantees of the pay they should expect. Removing those is likely to reduce their pay unless you make up the same amount in cash tips. Seems like a selfish way to make yourself feel good by letting them think you are tipping them extra, and then taking back their normal pay to justify it. 

[glentally]

24 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

Seems like a selfish way to make yourself feel good by letting them think you are tipping them extra, and then taking back their normal pay to justify it. 

Let me explain it for you  sanger000.  The $20 or more I slip them is WELL OVER the $180  (pre Gratuities) they split up amongst 1200 employees.  Nothing Selfish. Why would you say that?  My previous post is below, nothing about MY pleasure? 

"I am amazed at the pleasure I see from the recipient receiving tips when not expected or larger than the normal. "

Edited December 18, 2023 by glentally

[livingonthebeach]

The way I see it is the Cruise Industry resembles more All Inclusive Resorts than just restaurants. Almost all AI resorts include gratuities in the rate (they don't charge you a daily extra for tips). People do tip over this amount, as I do, in the form of cash and it is very much appreciated by the staff that serve you.

 

In the hotel industry, not every position receives tips like in some restaurants. I tend to follow the hospitality industry to base my decisions on tipping rather than restaurants. I do tip cruise line crew who serve me generously in cash as I see fit, rather than have the corporation decide how to distribute my discretionary funds.  

[Tatka]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I don't know what you mean by "here".  They are a foreign corporation and as such are not required to pay U.S. corporate taxes.  Maybe they pay a small amount of their operating revenue from U.S. sources but I think they found a loophole around this through section 882 of the tax code.  They have cruise ships all over the world and revenue from many parts all over the globe which they owe no taxes on. 

 

That they give business to suppliers in the U.S., mainly Florida, Texas, California, New York, New Jersey and Maryland, I agree with. 

 

https://cruiseradio.net/fact-check-do-cruise-lines-pay-us-taxes/

 

How much do cruise lines pay in taxes?

In 2019, Carnival Corp. paid $71 million in taxes on $3.06 billion in income. In the same year, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. paid $25.5 million in taxes on $1.8 billion in income, and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings paid $18.9 million in taxes on more than $911 million in income.

That works out to a tax rate of 2.32% for Carnival Corp., 1.4% for Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. and 2.07% for Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings.

 

According to PricewaterhouseCoopers, the federal tax rate for foreign corporations that are not tax-exempt is 21%; when combined with state and local taxes, that rate goes up to 25.75% for non-tax-exempt foreign corporations. 

 

They do not pay federal taxes, but they do pay taxes

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, Tatka said:

 

https://cruiseradio.net/fact-check-do-cruise-lines-pay-us-taxes/

 

How much do cruise lines pay in taxes?

In 2019, Carnival Corp. paid $71 million in taxes on $3.06 billion in income. In the same year, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. paid $25.5 million in taxes on $1.8 billion in income, and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings paid $18.9 million in taxes on more than $911 million in income.

That works out to a tax rate of 2.32% for Carnival Corp., 1.4% for Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. and 2.07% for Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings.

 

According to PricewaterhouseCoopers, the federal tax rate for foreign corporations that are not tax-exempt is 21%; when combined with state and local taxes, that rate goes up to 25.75% for non-tax-exempt foreign corporations. 

 

They do not pay federal taxes, but they do pay taxes

 

 

 

That 1.4% tax rate was before Covid. Those are not corporate taxes and after Covid they are using loopholes to avoid them altogether. 

[ONECRUISER]

19 hours ago, Another_Critic said:

They get a report.

Been a while, preCV, but I did the list those that had Tips removed. Whats that saying dont mess with people that prepare/serve your Food. 😁  I Managed Restaurants for yrs, my waitstaff made $2.13 hr, rate stayed that way there for Decades and even now 40yrs later its only up to $3.93hr. So it's not just Cruise Ships that workers live off their Tips. Do miss days when your Waiter, Asst Waiter and Room Attendant were only ones getting handed the money Directly. But even then was 50 cents PPPD(per person per day) for Asst Waiter, other 2 each received $1.25 PPPD

Edited December 18, 2023 by ONECRUISER

[Tatka]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

That 1.4% tax rate was before Covid. Those are not corporate taxes and after Covid they are using loopholes to avoid them altogether. 

After losing 22 bil anyone will. 

[3yorkies]

22 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

You are screwing over crew members who depend on tips, but who work behind the scenes and never interact with passengers. However, under the current system you aren’t doing anything wrong, unless it bothers you that you are taking advantage of hard working crew members. 

Sorry, but a tip or gratuity is intended for those you have direct interaction with.  I tip the maid in my hotel room, but NOT the laundry people and I will do the same on a cruise.

[not-enough-cruising]

9 hours ago, Tatka said:

 

I know it is registered in Liberia. They do pay taxes here, also they give lots of business to US.

Not payroll taxes,(except on US based employees)  I think that was the point. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by not-enough-cruising

[3yorkies]

11 hours ago, HappyTexan44 said:

@gmerick Could you explain more your understanding of that lawsuit?    It sounds like it is about some positions getting much more than the minimum.   That doesn't make sense to me.  Or maybe it is some complaining that others are getting paid more than them?  

It also jumped out at me that extra tips added to the bill were added to the pool.  That would tick me off.  

 

Which is why I always carry cash and tip everyone I want to tip in cash.   But I do that in land based places too.   I want the staff to be able to put in their own pocket, not have the employer decide when and what they get.

[Tatka]

14 minutes ago, 3yorkies said:

Sorry, but a tip or gratuity is intended for those you have direct interaction with.  I tip the maid in my hotel room, but NOT the laundry people and I will do the same on a cruise.

It’s basically a Daily Service Charge. Resort Fee. On some lines it’s even called this. 
Before switch people who served directly where getting a lot, while general workers who are not working less $400-500.

[PhillyFan33579]

19 minutes ago, 3yorkies said:

Sorry, but a tip or gratuity is intended for those you have direct interaction with.  I tip the maid in my hotel room, but NOT the laundry people and I will do the same on a cruise.

The problem with your approach is you are penalizing a lot of people who depend on gratuities. While I don’t disagree with your “definition” of a gratuity or tip, most major cruise lines pay a significant portion of their employees thru gratuities. While I am not a fan of this, my conscience does not allow me to remove gratuities because I know how many crew members depend on them. But that is getting more into ethics and morality, which I realize varies drastically among people. 

[3yorkies]

5 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

The problem with your approach is you are penalizing a lot of people who depend on gratuities. While I don’t disagree with your “definition” of a gratuity or tip, most major cruise lines pay a significant portion of their employees thru gratuities. While I am not a fan of this, my conscience does not allow me to remove gratuities because I know how many crew members depend on them. But that is getting more into ethics and morality, which I realize varies drastically among people. 

And what about the corporate ethics and morality?   Sorry, but if we just go along with it, including raising it twice in a year while simultaneously reducing many services, we are just condoning it.

[time4u2go]

46 minutes ago, Tatka said:

Before switch people who served directly where getting a lot, while general workers who are not working less $400-500.

What?  This sentence confuses me.  "Switch" people?  "Less $400-500"?

[bretts173]

2 hours ago, 3yorkies said:

Sorry, but a tip or gratuity is intended for those you have direct interaction with.  I tip the maid in my hotel room, but NOT the laundry people and I will do the same on a cruise.

Which just shows what a stupid and idiotic thing the entire tipping culture is. I mean the chef can spend hours providing you with the best dish you have ever eaten, working furiously in a hot kitchen but the waiter can stroll out with a smile and gets the tips.

[teddie]

It’s certainly up to the individual. 
 

I cruise and I tip autograts, and also give cash to those who I feel are deserving of extra.  I’m not going to begrudge some poor guy busting his butt in the laundry room his piteous cut. It’s the way it is for me and I’m fine with it.

Teddie

[uvadover]

Has there ever been a poster who touts the fact he/she declines the auto gratuity without declaring that he/she GENEROUSLY tips in cash? 

[bretts173]

7 hours ago, uvadover said:

Has there ever been a poster who touts the fact he/she declines the auto gratuity without declaring that he/she GENEROUSLY tips in cash? 

Pretty much the same as starting a sentence with I'm not a racist but......

Edited December 19, 2023 by bretts173

[Biker19]

10 hours ago, time4u2go said:

This sentence confuses me.  "Switch" people? 

There should have been a comma after "switch" and I think they meant 20+ years ago before the switch to auto-grats and inclusion of downstream staff in that pool of money.

 

Biker, who assumes that kind of sloppy grammar really grates @Merion_Mom

Edited December 19, 2023 by Biker19