Queen Mary 2 world voyage 2024….Red Sea?

[watsonbeau]

Agree with tjunmin. Takes sometime to secure port facilities - they need to have all that sorted before Dubai as you say. It would still risk the ship even passengerless - and what a coup should the ship be targeted. They’d do best to do the Cape route if there are still issues in the area. 

[DeanUU]

3 hours ago, tjunmin said:

If Cunard decides to reroute QM2 around the Cape of Good Hope, the decision will probably have to be made by the time the ship leaves Singapore on March 23, thus the 2 month timeline I previously mentioned.

If Cunard waits until the ship arrives in Dubai to reroute around Africa to avoid the Red Sea, QM2 will be unable to reach Southampton by April 28.

Someone on CC floated the possibility of all passengers disembarking in Dubai, and QM2 sailing empty through the Red Sea and passengers reboarding in Athens on April 19. This option eliminates the passenger liability for Cunard, but in my personal opinion, QM2 is still at risk of being attacked.

FWIW I think you’re on the money here.

First, the insurers will be much happier if QM2 gives the whole region a wide berth. A British symbol owned by an American conglomerate? May as well paint a big bullseye on the hull.

I suspect we’ll see QM2 divert south after the Colombo port stop, bypassing Dubai and the other Middle Eastern ports to transit via the Cape. The customers scheduled to board in Dubai will be issued FCC’s or will have arrangements made to join the ship in Cape Town. Maybe also offer incentives to join early in Singapore instead. 
 We know QM2 has a scheduled departure on 28 April from Southampton-NY, so Cunard will be looking closely at the cost ramifications of missing that sailing date and concluding that bypassing the Middle East is the safest and most cost effective solution. 
 

 

[SaltyCroc]

Here is the notice from the US Dept of Transportation which will stop Cunard (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the US-based Carnival Corporation) from sailing the QM2 into the Red Sea.  This notice has NO expiry date.  No US-owned ship (which is what the QM2 is) will break this.  It will be replaced by a subsequent warning by 5 Feb 2024

 

My wife and I are booked on QM2 from Dubai to New York.  It isn't going to happen.

 

https://www.maritime.dot.gov/msci/2024-001b-red-sea-and-gulf-aden-potential-retaliatory-attacks-houthi-forces

Edited January 16 by SaltyCroc

[DeanUU]

10 minutes ago, SaltyCroc said:

Here is the notice from the US Dept of Transportation which will stop Cunard (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the US-based Carnival Corporation) from sailing the QM2 into the Red Sea.  This notice has NO expiry date.  No US-owned ship (which is what the QM2 is) will break this.

 

My wife and I are booked on QM2 from Dubai to New York.  It isn't going to happen.

 

https://www.maritime.dot.gov/msci/2024-001b-red-sea-and-gulf-aden-potential-retaliatory-attacks-houthi-forces

Well that’s crystal clear, isn’t it? Not much room for interpretation.

Sorry to hear that this will probably impact your travel. Hopefully Cunard will offer a meaningful alternative in the coming weeks (assuming that’s an option for you).

[LittleFish1976]

1 hour ago, DeanUU said:

Well that’s crystal clear, isn’t it? Not much room for interpretation.

Sorry to hear that this will probably impact your travel. Hopefully Cunard will offer a meaningful alternative in the coming weeks (assuming that’s an option for you).

 

1 hour ago, SaltyCroc said:

Here is the notice from the US Dept of Transportation which will stop Cunard (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the US-based Carnival Corporation) from sailing the QM2 into the Red Sea.  This notice has NO expiry date.  No US-owned ship (which is what the QM2 is) will break this.  It will be replaced by a subsequent warning by 5 Feb 2024

 

My wife and I are booked on QM2 from Dubai to New York.  It isn't going to happen.

 

https://www.maritime.dot.gov/msci/2024-001b-red-sea-and-gulf-aden-potential-retaliatory-attacks-houthi-forces

 

My experience with Cunard having to drop an embarkation or disembarkation port is that they just cancel your voyage. You'll get an email and an option probably of either a refund or a FCC. At least you'll get more than one day's notice which is what I got.

 

I'm sorry for your disappointing outcome - hopefully they may offer a creative option regarding joining at a different port.

 

[SaltyCroc]

42 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

 

My experience with Cunard having to drop an embarkation or disembarkation port is that they just cancel your voyage. You'll get an email and an option probably of either a refund or a FCC. At least you'll get more than one day's notice which is what I got.

 

I'm sorry for your disappointing outcome - hopefully they may offer a creative option regarding joining at a different port.

 

I am not particularly disappointed because this will be the third cruise that Cunard has cancelled on me (3 strikes and you are out as it goes in baseball).  But everyone on that cruise leaving Singapore should be aware that Cunard WILL change the trip, it is just a matter of when we all get told.

[roscoe39]

2 hours ago, SaltyCroc said:

Here is the notice from the US Dept of Transportation which will stop Cunard (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the US-based Carnival Corporation) from sailing the QM2 into the Red Sea.  This notice has NO expiry date.  No US-owned ship (which is what the QM2 is) will break this.  It will be replaced by a subsequent warning by 5 Feb 2024

 

My wife and I are booked on QM2 from Dubai to New York.  It isn't going to happen.

 

https://www.maritime.dot.gov/msci/2024-001b-red-sea-and-gulf-aden-potential-retaliatory-attacks-houthi-forces

with all due respect saltycroc and not to downplay the situation - the is only a recommendation and a lot can still happen in the next few weeks. Rather than panic passengers it's probably better to wait and hear from Cunard and/or see what happens in the next month or so. It doesn't look too good but I wouldn't cancel plans just yet..

[rog747]

IMPO if I was booked to join QM2 in Dubai for the Suez Passage to SOU and also those staying on to NYC then I would be seriously looking at my Air and Hotel bookings (if I had arranged those independently) to check my Change/and or Refund options should QM2 be rerouted via the Cape.  

If that change occurs, and it is not for you, then that is usually deemed a 'Major Change' to your Holiday, and as HostHattie says above, you should be able to Cancel your Cunard booking and get a full refund, or take it as a FCC.

However, as I mentioned above, if you have booked Air/Hotels independently pre/post World Voyage, then they are what you need to see if you can Cancel/or Amend those bookings without a Penalty.
(Cunard has in the past offered Customers compensation in those cases on a case by case on-application where loss is incurred).

As discussed above, there is at least a month or so before Cunard should be making decisions on QM2's routing, and of course all this is dependant on HM Govt's advice to Shipping Lines, and as to whether the Red Sea/Gulf Conflict continues apace, or calms down.  

 

Edited January 16 by rog747

[exlondoner]

7 hours ago, SaltyCroc said:

Here is the notice from the US Dept of Transportation which will stop Cunard (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the US-based Carnival Corporation) from sailing the QM2 into the Red Sea.  This notice has NO expiry date.  No US-owned ship (which is what the QM2 is) will break this.  It will be replaced by a subsequent warning by 5 Feb 2024

 

My wife and I are booked on QM2 from Dubai to New York.  It isn't going to happen.

 

https://www.maritime.dot.gov/msci/2024-001b-red-sea-and-gulf-aden-potential-retaliatory-attacks-houthi-forces

Just to be clear about this: what makes Carnival/Cunard ships US owned?The company is quoted on both the NY and London stock exchanges, while Cunard’s registered office is in Southampton.

[Austcruiser84]

10 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Just to be clear about this: what makes Carnival/Cunard ships US owned?The company is quoted on both the NY and London stock exchanges, while Cunard’s registered office is in Southampton.

I’d say it doesn’t matter who owns QM2, it’s seen as belonging to the West. That’s all that concerns those launching strikes against shipping. 
 

Doha and Dubai are safe ports and I’d say the WC will continue to there, before diverting around via the Cape and up to Seville. From there back to Southampton. She will miss Salalah, Petra, Athens and Barcelona. While possible to include a port enroute from Dubai to Seville, it’s entirely possible they may sail non stop to get back to Southampton on time for the first TA after the WC. That’s a lot of sea days even at higher speeds (cruising speed is usually only 20 knots or so vs 33 knots she is capable to achieving) so a port visit somewhere on the African coast is probable. 
 

Those doing the whole WC could be in for a treat with experiencing QM2 at liner speeds. Of course, QM2 could still transit Suez under destroyer escort but would miss Salalah and Petra, docking in Athens as next port after Dubai. Even then, passengers would be treated to the experience of naval escort. 
 

 

[Victoria2]

I can just see the actuaries calculating now...

 

now let's see, if those awful chappies/chappettes around the Red Sea decide to have a punt at that pretty as a picture QM2, will the goodies be able to shoot down those nasty missiles before they get a chance to hole the lovely boat we insure...

 

 

hmmm , the jury is out to afternoon tea on that!!! 🙃

[exlondoner]

14 minutes ago, Austcruiser84 said:

I’d say it doesn’t matter who owns QM2, it’s seen as belonging to the West. That’s all that concerns those launching strikes against shipping. 
 

Doha and Dubai are safe ports and I’d say the WC will continue to there, before diverting around via the Cape and up to Seville. From there back to Southampton. She will miss Salalah, Petra, Athens and Barcelona. While possible to include a port enroute from Dubai to Seville, it’s entirely possible they may sail non stop to get back to Southampton on time for the first TA after the WC. That’s a lot of sea days even at higher speeds (cruising speed is usually only 20 knots or so vs 33 knots she is capable to achieving) so a port visit somewhere on the African coast is probable. 
 

Those doing the whole WC could be in for a treat with experiencing QM2 at liner speeds. Of course, QM2 could still transit Suez under destroyer escort but would miss Salalah and Petra, docking in Athens as next port after Dubai. Even then, passengers would be treated to the experience of naval escort. 
 

 

That wasn’t my issue. My issue was whether the statement the QM2 was US owned and therefore subject to US regulation was accurate, and if so on what grounds.

[Austcruiser84]

5 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

That wasn’t my issue. My issue was whether the statement the QM2 was US owned and therefore subject to US regulation was accurate, and if so on what grounds.

 

Carnival (as the parent company) is based in both the US and UK and is subject to regulations of both countries. 

[Patria21]

For what it’s worth, the below is what we were told in today’s daily program;

 

From the Captain

You will have seen the news over recent days regarding the developing geopolitical situation in the Red Sea off Yemen. As some of you will be onboard in Aprit when were scheduled to transit that area, I would like to reassure anyone with concerns at present that the company together with various national authorities and government departments are continuously monitoring the situation as are many global shipping companies. We will make any necessary decision in good time with the safety and security of the ship and all onboard being the paramount consideration.

[Host Hattie]

Thanks for the update @Patria21, I hope you're having a good time on board. 

[Easybimble]

52 minutes ago, Patria21 said:

For what it’s worth, the below is what we were told in today’s daily program;

 

From the Captain

You will have seen the news over recent days regarding the developing geopolitical situation in the Red Sea off Yemen. As some of you will be onboard in Aprit when were scheduled to transit that area, I would like to reassure anyone with concerns at present that the company together with various national authorities and government departments are continuously monitoring the situation as are many global shipping companies. We will make any necessary decision in good time with the safety and security of the ship and all onboard being the paramount consideration.

Thanks for passing this on, I was wondering what was being said to passengers on board at the moment?

[rog747]

My Sister's side of the family (Her Hubbie, their siblings and his other relatives) have all worked at Lloyd's of London in Marine Hull and Aviation Underwriting Insurance for over 60 years, and I was just asking my Nephew (He is now V-P of a major Underwriters of Tankers, Oil Rigs and Gas Pipelines) what he thought of the current situation.
His Dad insured Torrey Canyon, Pan Am Tenerife, Exxon Valdez, Hurricane Hugo, Air India off Ireland, Pan Am Lockerbie, and Piper Alpha which was a turning point for Lloyd’s and the Insurance industry as a whole.

BP's Deepwater Horizon and the resulting catastrophe is still considered to be the largest accidental Marine spill in the history of the petroleum industry. As insurers, Lloyd’s paid out over $600m.  
 

I await news...

He's going to ask one of his mates in 'Hulls' underwriting. 

Edited January 16 by rog747

[Patria21]

1 hour ago, Host Hattie said:

Thanks for the update @Patria21, I hope you're having a good time on board. 

My friends and I are all having a great time - but that’s helped by the fact that none of us is getting on or off in Dubai so we’re more comfortable living with an uncertain itinerary. Plus we’ve all been through something similar before: It’s the cost of traveling in an uncertain world. So we float. 

[canoncruiser]

QM2 is my absolute favorite-I’ve travelled on her every year since 2004. I have just been on Holland America’s 73 Day Africa Grand Voyage-superb by the way. We left Ft. Lauderdale 3 days after the terrorist attack in Israel - we sailed through Suez and the Red Sea after the conflict had broadened. There were regular and clear - and reassuring announcements from the Captain. Toward the southern end of the Red Sea we passed an American warship on patrol. That  was rather unnerving but evidence of what has now come- missile attacks on commercial vessels. 

I would be surprised -amazed-astonished if Cunard sent their flagship into an increasingly hot war zone-a la Lusitania 1915.

Without a sharp cooling down in the war zone, I do not think they will. There’s a new Cunard TV commercial featuring QM2-she would present a fine target. Sorry booked cruisers but I think there will be changes.

[Poole Boy]

I think it unlikely that QM 2 will go anywhere near the Red Sea, for what its worth my guess is there are  two routes to get her back to Southampton.  Singapore to Southampton Via Cape Town, slightly less disruptive as only 2 segments cancelled, however it does mean a duplicated itinerary for all those on the WC, timings work as it would mirror QV's itinerary from Singapore to Southampton( +/- 3days).

 

Other option but more disruptive, from Sydney ( or possibly Hong Kong) transit across the Pacific round Cape Horn and possibly a South American  / Caribbean itinerary. ( probable not stopping in any US ports)

 

More segments cancelled , but would not  contain any repeated ports for those on the full WC.

 

 

[exlondoner]

4 minutes ago, Poole Boy said:

I think it unlikely that QM 2 will go anywhere near the Red Sea, for what its worth my guess is there are  two routes to get her back to Southampton.  Singapore to Southampton Via Cape Town, slightly less disruptive as only 2 segments cancelled, however it does mean a duplicated itinerary for all those on the WC, timings work as it would mirror QV's itinerary from Singapore to Southampton( +/- 3days).

 

Other option but more disruptive, from Sydney ( or possibly Hong Kong) transit across the Pacific round Cape Horn and possibly a South American  / Caribbean itinerary. ( probable not stopping in any US ports)

 

More segments cancelled , but would not  contain any repeated ports for those on the full WC.

 

 

Yes, I was wondering whether she might come back across the Pacific, to avoid repetitions. As you say more disruptive.

[Austcruiser84]

40 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Yes, I was wondering whether she might come back across the Pacific, to avoid repetitions. As you say more disruptive.

Interesting, though I’d imagine there’s only be a small number doing the full WC vs segments so surely better to repeat than cancel more segments?

[Pippa04]

1 hour ago, Austcruiser84 said:

Interesting, though I’d imagine there’s only be a small number doing the full WC vs segments so surely better to repeat than cancel more segments?

In a way, but people would have chosen segments for that particular itinerary and it may be better to make alterations before embarkation.  At least they could choose whether they wanted to sail.

[exlondoner]

12 minutes ago, Pippa04 said:

In a way, but people would have chosen segments for that particular itinerary and it may be better to make alterations before embarkation.  At least they could choose whether they wanted to sail.

For some people, who are lucky enough to be able to be flexible, the thought of a passage round Cape Horn, plus a couple of interesting and unvisited South American ports might actually be more enjoyable. I would be quite excited, but I’m sure lots wouldn’t.

[maggielou362]

20 hours ago, Patria21 said:

...It’s the cost of traveling in an uncertain world. So we float. 

I love that, Patria21. keep on floating and I hope you continue to have a lovely voyage.