Apex cruising Speed

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Dottymac said:

To me cruise ships must be permanently having ongoing maintenance going on as a result of the 10's of thousands of miles they must sail each year with B2B itineraries, so isn't this just business as usual? Or is this a unique situation?

If there were not maintenance being constantly done on the hundreds of pieces of equipment onboard, there would not be a need for the engineering department of 50-70 people.  Yes, something is being maintained/repaired every single day.  And, things like the diesel engines are maintained on running hours, not miles the ship has sailed, so maintenance is done at intervals like 250, 500, 1000, 2000 hours of running, and a complete overhaul is done every 12,000 hours.  Given a cruise ship's typical usage, that equates to every 2.5 years.  Think of getting a complete new engine in your car every 3 years.  As I noted before, the Anthem situation that PinkT mentioned was caused by one engine being down for this routine maintenance (which can last for 4 weeks or more) and then another engine breaking down and requiring repair with a part not available.  This is a fairly uncommon occurrence, but a bit more common post-Covid due to supply chain issues (like now aggravated by the Suez/Red Sea issues).

[Dottymac]

Thanks chengkp75

It is really interesting to understand this and thank you for the clarification on hours vs miles.

I will speak to my TA tomorrow.

We do not have to pay the full balance for another few months so will watch with interest to see if Celebrity are not disclosing a bigger issue, as suspected by the more experienced cruising community, or not. I am hoping not. I just want to look forward to a nice holiday

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Celebrity not being transparent causes unnecessary alarm.  They could have said one engine is down for maintenance,  but we have x other engines.

 

48 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

This.  If I received a letter like this I would probably keep the cruise.

 

Due to the uncertainty I would be tempted to cancel.  What really is the issue?

So, using the RCI Anthem example, if they said they had "routine engine maintenance" then you would have kept the cruise, but what would your decision have been if they said "we have one engine down for maintenance, and one out of service awaiting parts, but we have two engines fully operational"?

 

How much transparency do you require?

[NMTraveller]

13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

So, using the RCI Anthem example, if they said they had "routine engine maintenance" then you would have kept the cruise, but what would your decision have been if they said "we have one engine down for maintenance, and one out of service awaiting parts, but we have two engines fully operational"?

 

How much transparency do you require?

You are correct.  If they did not tell me that two engines were down I would not count that towards transparency.  Perhaps if people knew they would cancel ...

 

Does  Apex have two down?  Anyways if one is down for maintenance,  it seems like if another goes down it just gets worse.  Perhaps not probable,  but ...

 

I am not sure what I would do here.  It would probably depend upon the ease of changing my reservations...  It seems like the cruisers are taking a chance that is difficult to quantify.

 

Some times the captain can speed up the ship to make up for lost time.  That is not going to happen here.

 

 

Edited February 25 by NMTraveller

[BigAl94]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Do the airlines tell you what the exact reason is why your scheduled aircraft has been replaced with another aircraft at the last moment, causing a delay?  Not in my experience, it is just a "due to a mechanical problem" explanation.  Why should cruise lines be different?  How many aircraft fly with deferred maintenance items?  Quite a lot.  Cruise ships are the same, except a cruise ship can perform the maintenance underway, while an aircraft cannot.

I don't think there's any comparison. Your unlikely to have spent so much on a flight and certainly not on the plane for 12 nights! 

As has been mentioned, if Celebrity said there was an issue with an engine due to maintenance thus reducing speed, personally I would have no issue. If it was something else, I might. Would engine maintenance last several months - possibly as there are several and this is a possible explanation.

Celebrity need to take steps to avoid the speculation.

[Guest Cable3232]

Just my two cents: I think most of you are off the mark. The last two ports, the leaving port of Alesund and the arrival port of Kristiansand have not changed, and there is a fair distance between the two ports.

Therefore, I think this is an issue with Norway, but no other cruise line seems to have the same problem.

 

It would be helpful if Celebrity provided more information since they have changed the cruise we were expecting for my sailing.

 

 

If this were an airline, they would have to explain to the insurance companies if they could not swap the plane from their vast fleet and had to explain why their clients were making claims.

 

Edited February 26 by Cable3232
More readable

[villauk]

46 minutes ago, Cable3232 said:

Therefore, I think this is an issue with Norway

 

How can it be an issue with Norway only when the OP is sailing the Caribbean (see post #7) and reported their notification 🤷‍♀️?

[Guest Cable3232]

29 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

How can it be an issue with Norway only when the OP is sailing the Caribbean (see post #7) and reported their notification 🤷‍♀️?

I thought the Nov cruise was Nordic and didn't realise it was the same person. 😬😬😬

 

In that case, there must be a more significant issue than regular "maintenance". If it were a parts issue, other options wouldn't last 6+ months unless it is dry dock-only maintence.

 

As I stated, it would be good for Celebrity to explain in more detail, but time will tell one way or another.

 

When did Apex dry dock change from Oct/Nov 24 to 2025? 

 

Edited February 26 by Cable3232

[Lastdance]

Trying to get an accurate answer from so many working for Celebrity is a conundrum at best.  I just know that when I pay my deposit, cruiser beware is my motto, as anything can happen and will when one books early.  I have Apex booked for October, 2025, b2b with a TA.  I could die by then, but I do have insurance on my deposit!😆  Transparency is not always transparent either, so it is difficult when you are a “why” person.  

[mickeysgal]

On 2/25/2024 at 1:13 PM, tommy921 said:

Yes, whilst this (our) Portugal/Med cruise isn't too badly affected, our other cruise to Norway is.

For that cruise, we now arrive in Flam 1 hour earlier at 7am, BUT we leave 3 hours earlier at 3pm. This has caused huge inconvenience for many who have booked excursions there - especially on the train. So we lose 2 hours.

For Tromso, we arrive 4 hours later at 1pm and leave at the same time - so we lose 4 hours.

For Honningsvag we arrive 1 hour earlier but leave 2 hours earlier.

We have been on a many Celebrity cruises and have had our fair share of cancellation of ports due to weather, which are not the fault of Celebrity. The most memorable being anchored outside St Petersburg for 2 days (high winds) and missing Bar Harbor (a weather bomb).

Like BigAl94 - post #60, I don't recall anyone saying the ship is not seaworthy. The post by chengkp75 - post  #56 is very informative as to the rules and regulations.

As we had to transfer two cruises last year to this year for medical reasons with my wife, we are very loathed to cancel these two, and we will just have to 'lump it'. But our UK Celebrity cruise rep will be told our dissatisfaction!



 

We are also on this sailing and are disappointed in the port time changes.  It's a very expensive cruise to say the least.  My concern is sailing in the North Sea if there is an issue with engines or stability.  Hoping Celebrity gives more detail so the speculation of what's truly behind all this can stop and give booked customers the time they need to make a decision go/not go.  I remember this happening on a Princess Alaska cruise a few years ago...it created quite a stir...reduced port time, cancelled ports, little compensation, people cancelling, etc.  

Edited February 28 by mickeysgal

[chengkp75]

38 minutes ago, mickeysgal said:

My concern is sailing in the North Sea if there is an issue with engines or stability.

As I've said above, virtually every cruise ship has sailed around for weeks at a time, every year, with one engine down for overhaul, and no one is the wiser, and no one is endangered.  Similarly, I have sailed on a cruise ship that had one complete fin stabilizer removed because of damage, and the ship sailed for 4 years with only the starboard fin operating, and there was no real issue with rolling (there is never an issue with "stability" when a stabilizer doesn't work) until the next dry dock.  Did the passengers notice that the fin was removed?  Nope.  Cruise ships make up less than 5% of all the ships crossing the oceans every day, and almost none of those other ships have more than one propeller (unlike cruise ships), nor more than one engine capable of driving that propeller (unlike cruise ships), and therefore having less "reliability" than a cruise ship, even one with an engine down, and yet they sail for years at a time with no problems.

 

I can't address your own comfort level with choosing to cruise, but these are the simple facts about going to sea, and you may have likely sailed on several cruise ships that were experiencing "issues" with engines, and never knew about it.

[Reese718]

On 2/24/2024 at 7:36 AM, Jumping Cruiser said:

She is due for dry dock in March/April 25. Unless there is a severe maintenance  or safety issue, then this will not be moved forward. 

It's been reported that Celebrity has moved up Apex's dry-dock to happen this Fall instead of next Spring.  That seems to support the idea that they're having a propulsion or stabilizer problem, combined with so many itineraries being changed in similar fashion (longer sailing times port-to-port) and shorter times in port.  Our itinerary for a June 15, 2024 sailing has already been changed twice, each time shortening port stays by an hour here and an hour there.

[Lastdance]

1 minute ago, Reese718 said:

It's been reported that Celebrity has moved up Apex's dry-dock to happen this Fall instead of next Spring.  That seems to support the idea that they're having a propulsion or stabilizer problem, combined with so many itineraries being changed in similar fashion (longer sailing times port-to-port) and shorter times in port.  Our itinerary for a June 15, 2024 sailing has already been changed twice, each time shortening port stays by an hour here and an hour there.

Well, hopefully the issue is fixed...sorry about all your changes, as it does make a difference at some ports.

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 2/25/2024 at 1:39 PM, NMTraveller said:

You are correct.  If they did not tell me that two engines were down I would not count that towards transparency.  Perhaps if people knew they would cancel ...

 

Does  Apex have two down?  Anyways if one is down for maintenance,  it seems like if another goes down it just gets worse.  Perhaps not probable,  but ...

 

I am not sure what I would do here.  It would probably depend upon the ease of changing my reservations...  It seems like the cruisers are taking a chance that is difficult to quantify.

 

Some times the captain can speed up the ship to make up for lost time.  That is not going to happen here.

 

 

If two engines were down then the ship would not set sail.

They are a couple kts slower with one engine down.

Too much conspiracy theories here.

Cheng is correct.

[hcat]

All we can do is follow posts of passengers about the cruise speed and comfort..on their cruises.

 

Eventually info will leak out..if there is any info to be leaked...

[tommy921]

38 minutes ago, Reese718 said:

It's been reported that Celebrity has moved up Apex's dry-dock to happen this Fall instead of next Spring.  That seems to support the idea that they're having a propulsion or stabilizer problem, combined with so many itineraries being changed in similar fashion (longer sailing times port-to-port) and shorter times in port.  Our itinerary for a June 15, 2024 sailing has already been changed twice, each time shortening port stays by an hour here and an hour there.

Where have you seen this recent information about an autumn (fall) dry dock?

Celebrity are still selling cruises for the Apex, for all of 2024 and early 2025, until after the transatlantic crossing on 8 March 2025, on their website.

There is a gap in the schedule between 21 March 2025 and 6 April 2025. Presumably this is for the dry dock in Europe?

Sort by date on this link;
https://www.celebritycruises.com/gb/itinerary-search?q=apex&sailStartDate=2024-10-01&sailEndDate=2025-04-30&dateToggle=M

[chengkp75]

40 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

If two engines were down then the ship would not set sail.

They are a couple kts slower with one engine down.

Too much conspiracy theories here.

Cheng is correct.

I believe you are mistaking "engines" for "propellers".  Yes, with 2 propellers down, the ship would not sail.  What I am suggesting is that one or more of the 5 diesel engines that generate electricity to drive the ship may be down, and the ship could very easily sail with 2 engines down.

[chengkp75]

52 minutes ago, Reese718 said:

It's been reported that Celebrity has moved up Apex's dry-dock to happen this Fall instead of next Spring.  That seems to support the idea that they're having a propulsion or stabilizer problem, combined with so many itineraries being changed in similar fashion (longer sailing times port-to-port) and shorter times in port.  Our itinerary for a June 15, 2024 sailing has already been changed twice, each time shortening port stays by an hour here and an hour there.

While this could happen, if they did it, they would then move the entire survey schedule for the remainder of the ship's life up by 6 months or so.  You don't get credit for doing dry dock inspections earlier than the allowed window, so since this dry docking marks the end of the ship's first survey period (5 years), doing it early would require starting the clock over at the earlier time.  That cuts a few months off the ship's life towards the period when the surveys and inspections start to really add up.

 

And, again, going slower for a stabilizer problem is counter-productive, so that is not the issue.

[Reese718]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While this could happen, if they did it, they would then move the entire survey schedule for the remainder of the ship's life up by 6 months or so.  You don't get credit for doing dry dock inspections earlier than the allowed window, so since this dry docking marks the end of the ship's first survey period (5 years), doing it early would require starting the clock over at the earlier time.  That cuts a few months off the ship's life towards the period when the surveys and inspections start to really add up.

 

And, again, going slower for a stabilizer problem is counter-productive, so that is not the issue.

I think it's most likely a propulsion problem.  Celebrity has made similar changes to itineraries in the past with other ships with propulsion issues until they could get them in a yard: Silhouette and Millennium come to mind. 

[Reese718]

32 minutes ago, tommy921 said:

Where have you seen this recent information about an autumn (fall) dry dock?

Celebrity are still selling cruises for the Apex, for all of 2024 and early 2025, until after the transatlantic crossing on 8 March 2025, on their website.

There is a gap in the schedule between 21 March 2025 and 6 April 2025. Presumably this is for the dry dock in Europe?

Sort by date on this link;
https://www.celebritycruises.com/gb/itinerary-search?q=apex&sailStartDate=2024-10-01&sailEndDate=2025-04-30&dateToggle=M

It's been in the news since last Summer: 

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/09/celebrity-cruises-reschedule-apexs-drydock/#:~:text=With this goal in mind,planned%2C” the company said.

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/06/celebrity-apex-sailings-cancelled-to-accommodate-drydock/

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/celebrity-cruises-cancels-a-month-of-sailings-for-one-ship/104124

 

Edited February 28 by Reese718

[tommy921]

3 minutes ago, Reese718 said:

It's been in the news since last Summer: 

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/09/celebrity-cruises-reschedule-apexs-drydock/#:~:text=With this goal in mind,planned%2C” the company said.

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/06/celebrity-apex-sailings-cancelled-to-accommodate-drydock/

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/celebrity-cruises-cancels-a-month-of-sailings-for-one-ship/104124

 

The first two links say 'false' at the top.

And in 3rd link, they say ;"Four sailings are now cancelled, including an 11-night Canary Islands cruise from Southampton, the ship’s post-dry dock transatlantic sailing, and two Caribbean itineraries. The impacted cruises are the October 24, November 3, November 16, and November 23 departure dates, all in 2024."

But these four sailings are still on sale on the website. It just doesn't make sense! Why if they are cancelled?

 

[Dottymac]

It appears that continuing to speculate is a waste of time and energy as it seems clear that noone really knows the facts for the itinerary changes, except Celebrity of course. I get the impression that they are not going to respond to this thread, so Customers will just have to wait and see. If it is overly worrying to people to do this they are entitled to cancel or move their cruise and plan something more definite. Nothing in life is certain (except the obvious). 

[tscoffey]

On May 2nd, I only care of the food is good, the room is comfortable, and the ship is as nice as I have seen. I won’t care one iota if we are 1 knot or 2 slower going across the Atlantic.

 

Worst case, the Apex stalls in the middle of the Atlantic somewhere. We all get put on other ships, or towed, and flown home from the nearest large city, plus reimbursed for missed ports and flights, as well as likely a generous  FCC - all at Celebrity’s expense. It would make for an interesting vacation, to be sure!

But the odds of this occurring are near zero.

Edited February 28 by tscoffey

[Harrisonkid]

I started this thread when I received a "port change notification " for our November 10th Anniversary cruise. They have been clear that 'at this time cancelation is not planned'. Of course, cancelation , could happen with any cruise due to any unforseen issues.

So, I must agree that the reason is unclear but the issues will not require a 4 to 6 week stay in drydock. So,stay tuned is our plan ...

[Reese718]

57 minutes ago, tommy921 said:

The first two links say 'false' at the top.

And in 3rd link, they say ;"Four sailings are now cancelled, including an 11-night Canary Islands cruise from Southampton, the ship’s post-dry dock transatlantic sailing, and two Caribbean itineraries. The impacted cruises are the October 24, November 3, November 16, and November 23 departure dates, all in 2024."

But these four sailings are still on sale on the website. It just doesn't make sense! Why if they are cancelled?

 

We'll have to wait until Celebrity announces something about the drydock.

But in their emails to us about itinerary changes, Celebrity has already  stated the changes are required due to " cruising speed restrictions". So  something's up with the ship