Medical emergency Edge

[kwokpot]

I'm currently on the Ovation of the Seas heading to Vancouver from Kona for disembarkation on 5/9 when earlier today we were notified that a medical emergency warrants us to detour ASAP to near the coast of San Francisco tomorrow around 4pm for medical evacuation. The captain also stated at present we don't know how this will affect Thursday mornings  disembarkation in Vancouver.

[1Virgo]

If you are not a licensed helicopter pilot or airplane pilot, never taken the courses, passed and licensed, nor done years of courses and training to be a Ship Captain, You have no right to question the decisions made. Decisions are made with safety in mind.  For Everyone.  Safety first!
 

[NMTraveller]

We had a helo evac on Millie for an Asia cruise.  We watched the helo fly in and out from our balcony.  We had calm seas and winds.

[chengkp75]

The decision as to whether to use a helicopter for evacuation or divert the ship is made by committee.  That committee consists of the ship's doctor (what condition is the patient in), the ship's Captain (what is the risk to the ship, crew, and passengers, the helicopter flight crew (are weather conditions or distance okay to make it safe), and the USCG flight surgeon (is there more risk in winching the patient off the ship and spending an hour or two with sub-optimal life support (this is a helicopter, not an ER), or is the patient stable enough with the life support systems on the ship to make the diversion).  All of these decisions put together are what determine whether a helicopter evac is warranted.

 

If the distances that the helicopter has to cover are great, USCG will deploy a fixed wing aircraft to supervise the scene, in case things go sideways, they can deploy lifesaving equipment.

 

The helipads on cruise ships are almost never used for landing, and being on the bow, they are difficult to use for winching operations.  The ship must continue to move, in order to remain as stable as possible, and so the helicopter is forced to make a "moving hover" (staying stationary over a moving spot) with the front of the ship in his face while backing away.  For this reason, most winching is done from an upper deck, around midships.  This presents problems as well, as the thermal updrafts from the ship's exhausts are near, and can cause problems with hovering.

 

No commercial helicopter (certainly not a MediAir type) company trains for hovering over a moving ship, nor winching exercises, nor even landing on a moving ship (ship would still need to be moving to maintain a stable helipad), and no Captain would think of allowing a commercial helicopter anywhere near his ship.  Some countries do outsource their SAR responsibilities to private companies (Holland for one, I think), but these are typically ex-military pilots who do train for these operations.

[papaflamingo]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:20 AM, John GLISSMEYER said:

Bridge just notified us we have to return to port Kona about 4hours for medical emergency. He says to windy for helicopter to land about 15 MPh on ship?

sounds a little fishy? What is actually happening? 

I am a retired Coast Guard pilot.  Looking at Edge, the helipad on the bow is very small and would make a Coast Guard Helicopter landing unlikely.  Additionally the closest Coast Guard Airstation (unless something has changed) is on Oahu, so it would be a pretty long flight for a Coast Guard helicopter to fly to the Kona area.  In any event, hoisting is not always the first option, it's really the last option.  If you look at Edge, there are a lot of structure issues that would make a hoist complicated.  So if a helicopter evacuation isn't 100% medically required they won't do it.  

[cruisestitch]

I have unfortunately seen several helicopter evacuations, most recently in February on constellation.(below)  With a forward facing room, the helicopter was hovering practically in front of me. I have also seen one case where a copter landed on the bow of a ship. One thing I remember vividly about that incident was the number of crewmembers on deck who were completely donned in hazmat suits with firefighting equipment in case something terrible had happened and the copter  had crashed.

 

. 

[ExArkie]

From a few years ago…

 

Important part is the pictures in posts 20 and 21. Not likely a helicopter would land on that helipad in any sea conditions. 
 

 

[kwokpot]

19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If the distances that the helicopter has to cover are great, USCG will deploy a fixed wing aircraft to supervise the scene, in case things go sideways, they can deploy lifesaving equipment

That must be the case here,right now, for Ovation of the Seas, we're off the San Francisco coast. They also deployed a refueling ship? For the helicopter.

[chengkp75]

The USCG helicopters don't have aerial refueling probes like some Army helicopters do, but USCG helicopters do practice an "aerial refueling" of a sort, where the helicopter hovers over the deck of a cutter if the helicopter is too large, or the cutter motion is too great for the helicopter to land on the cutter.  Otherwise, the helicopter will land on the cutter and refuel.  That doesn't look like a USCG helicopter, maybe Army, so maybe less range, hence the cutter to refuel.

[kwokpot]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The USCG helicopters don't have aerial refueling probes like some Army helicopters do, but USCG helicopters do practice an "aerial refueling" of a sort, where the helicopter hovers over the deck of a cutter if the helicopter is too large, or the cutter motion is too great for the helicopter to land on the cutter.  Otherwise, the helicopter will land on the cutter and refuel.  That doesn't look like a USCG helicopter, maybe Army, so maybe less range, hence the cutter to refuel.

Someone caught a photo of the actual patient transfer.

 

Yesterday the captain had said this transfer was going to happen today around 4-4:30pm so it seems it was accelerated 6 hours.

[chengkp75]

And that helicopter does have aerial refueling capability, see the probe extending out of picture lower right.

[kwokpot]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And that helicopter does have aerial refueling capability, see the probe extending out of picture lower right.

Thank you for your insight on the Ovation rescue. Let's all hope the Edge medical transfer goes similarly. As an aside unbeknownst to me the patient transfer was actually shown on the in room TV cam.

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, kwokpot said:

Thank you for your insight on the Ovation rescue. Let's all hope the Edge medical transfer goes similarly. As an aside unbeknownst to me the patient transfer was actually shown on the in room TV cam.

Probably done to minimize the passengers out there with their cameras and flashes  distracting the pilot.

[kwokpot]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Probably done to minimize the passengers out there with their cameras and flashes  distracting the pilot.

The captain just informed us our arrival to Vancouver on Thursday, May 9th will be delayed from early morning to 2:00 pm. The delayed docking is further exacerbated by the tides schedule and having to cross a bridge in The Vancouver area at 1:00 pm, otherwise the ship would not be able to clear the bridge. So as we see lots of moving parts when a medical evacuation is required.

[markeb]

5 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

The captain just informed us our arrival to Vancouver on Thursday, May 9th will be delayed from early morning to 2:00 pm. The delayed docking is further exacerbated by the tides schedule and having to cross a bridge in The Vancouver area at 1:00 pm, otherwise the ship would not be able to clear the bridge. So as we see lots of moving parts when a medical evacuation is required.

 

An extreme case, of course, but the argument to "can I make a XX:xx flight"? We're overnighting in Vancouver after our Alaska cruise to not be rushed and have a day in Vancouver, but...

 

Hope all goes well with the patient. That's the most important thing.

[the penguins]

13 hours ago, kwokpot said:

Thank you for your insight on the Ovation rescue. Let's all hope the Edge medical transfer goes similarly. As an aside unbeknownst to me the patient transfer was actually shown on the in room TV cam.

in our experience it's standard practice for the ship to show the event on the cabin tv's as it keeps passengers off the deck. 

[hcat]

hope patient does well..very intricate evac scenario...

 

to the experts:  if the helipad area location is not best suited, why is it placed where it is on most ships?

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, hcat said:

hope patient does well..very intricate evac scenario...

 

to the experts:  if the helipad area location is not best suited, why is it placed where it is on most ships?

Just like the little loop on the back of men's shirts, who knows?

[papaflamingo]

59 minutes ago, hcat said:

hope patient does well..very intricate evac scenario...

 

to the experts:  if the helipad area location is not best suited, why is it placed where it is on most ships?

The bow of a cruise ship is the only place free of obstructions with enough space for a helicopter to land.  Any rails or flag staffs are removed or lowered on hinges to the deck so for the helicopter to land.  

[chengkp75]

53 minutes ago, papaflamingo said:

The bow of a cruise ship is the only place free of obstructions with enough space for a helicopter to land.  Any rails or flag staffs are removed or lowered on hinges to the deck so for the helicopter to land.  

But, most of the helipads are not strong enough, or large enough for most SAR helicopters to land, though I suspect they could try to stay "light on the skids" to reduce weight on the pad.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

Soon it will all done by drones 😁

It is amazing what AI and drones can do know

my son in the military, his division spend almost 25% of their budget on drones 

Some of the things they are doing is crazy 

[kearney]

Great discussion..... 

[chengkp75]

59 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Soon it will all done by drones 😁

It is amazing what AI and drones can do know

my son in the military, his division spend almost 25% of their budget on drones 

Some of the things they are doing is crazy 

While it could be flown as a drone, there still needs to be a paramedic onboard for patient care.

[hcat]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Just like the little loop on the back of men's shirts, who knows?

made my day!

[PTC DAWG]

If the so called helipad says “winch only”, no landing.  Only the winching up of a basket..

 

I’m told the E class ships use the lawn club area on the top deck for evacuations like this..