Westerdam took the wrong route - is this fair compensation ?

[Copper10-8]

12 hours ago, asebastian said:

At least not Captain Wouter van Hoogdalem who stuffed up our stop at Komodo Island (Singapore Indonesia Discovery cruise) in Nov-Dec last year by disallowing anyone not on a ship excursion from taking the tender to the island (vague safety reasons were provided even though people with mobility issues were seen getting into the tender). After a lot of complaints, we received a letter of apology signed by the captain as well as USD250 non-refundable OBC to each passenger. We were literally 2 days from ending the cruise in Singapore so there was a rush to the shops to spend the OBC! I would have preferred the money to be in the form of FCC.

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on that one! I worked a full 3-month contract for Captain Oebele "Wouter" van Hoogdalem on Zuiderdam. One of the best captains I've worked for. Prior to that one, he was my immediate boss as staff captain on the Volendam 

[Copper10-8]

7 minutes ago, Despegue said:

He was balding the same way as I am it seems , the struggle is real people!

 

 

Het beste Kaptein! / All the best Captain!

[Khlela]

4 hours ago, wetterthanwater said:

I'd take the Canadian inside passage over most of those tourist trap ports in Alaska.

I'd take the Canadian inside passage over most of those tourist trap ports in Alaska.

 

The CIP was absolutely glorious on Friday on Koningsdam. 

For me an Alaskan cruise isn’t about those ports. I enjoy the open sea, the wildlife and Glacier Bay. I may be bias because I live in the PNW so the “amazing views” of the Canadian Inside Passage is no different than taking my boat up the Columbia Gorge. There is nothing special, it’s just calmer waters. It’s also why I don’t fall into “tourist traps” because I can get my own fresh Dungeness crab here. 
 

Either way, I personally found the inside passage to be lacking and less beautiful and less sea life than when I have taken the outer way back. But if others love it for some reason, more power to them. Everyone has different priorities. 

 

Feel free to continue to call ports “tourist traps” and completely disregard the thousands of people that enjoy the cruise every year. I would venture there are far more “tourist trap” ports in other regions. But whatever. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I was just sharing my opinion. 

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, Khlela said:

For me an Alaskan cruise isn’t about those ports. I enjoy the open sea, the wildlife and Glacier Bay. I may be bias because I live in the PNW so the “amazing views” of the Canadian Inside Passage is no different than taking my boat up the Columbia Gorge. There is nothing special, it’s just calmer waters. It’s also why I don’t fall into “tourist traps” because I can get my own fresh Dungeness crab here. 
 

Either way, I personally found the inside passage to be lacking and less beautiful and less sea life than when I have taken the outer way back. But if others love it for some reason, more power to them. Everyone has different priorities. 

 

Feel free to continue to call ports “tourist traps” and completely disregard the thousands of people that enjoy the cruise every year. I would venture there are far more “tourist trap” ports in other regions. But whatever. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I was just sharing my opinion. 

People forget some of those ports are National Parks ; as much as Yellowstone and Yosemite are tourist traps I guess the ports  are too.  

[asebastian]

11 hours ago, REOVA said:

If you don't have either a HAL tour or a private tour, they don't want you on the island

Yes I realize that, those of us who were denied entry were actually booked on a large group tour (about 120 people), we were not planning to go ashore and wonder around by ourselves! There was another smaller group of 24 people booked on another tour as well, and they were also denied (and some claimed they didn't get any compensation).

[asebastian]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

Het beste Kaptein! / All the best Captain!

We all thought the same of him too, we were 56 days in the voyage with him, until he made the fateful decision at Komodo Island.

[Copper10-8]

32 minutes ago, asebastian said:

We all thought the same of him too, we were 56 days in the voyage with him, until he made the fateful decision at Komodo Island.

 

 

Just a heads up; that particular quote of mine was directed at Poster Despegue from Belgium, a Boeing 747 (among others) airline captain 😉 I somehow seriously doubt that Captain van Hoogdalem is reading this fascinating thread

[asebastian]

56 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

Just a heads up

Thanks for clarifying, John.

[Heidi13]

On 5/13/2024 at 7:28 AM, BaileyMJ said:

OMG - I am in shock a sea captain stated they took a wrong turn - I can’t imagine he or the staff captain can make such a mistake and still be in employed.  
 

Now you plot a course and that can change due to weather/winds ship engines etc but that is what the officers on the bridge do 24/7.   I could see the scenario that due to weather sea conditions Captain would deviate the course to minimize or avoid rough seas for safety of the passengers and that would cause delay to your entry point into the inside passenger - there are only so many pilots available.

I am sorry you missed a scenic cruising but you must of had an amazing crossing snd more importantly I hope you had calm seas and no one fell or was injured.

 

The Captain and Bridge Team didn't take a wrong turn, as without a Coast Pilot onboard, the Master cannot enter compulsory pilotage waters. If the Ops Office or vessel hadn't ordered the pilot, BC Coast Pilots don't have any based in Port Hardy, they send them up from Vancouver/Victoria, as required.

 

Large cruise ships also need senior 5 yr + pilots, and since the pilotage is 12 hrs +, they require 2 pilots. The chance of having 2 additional senior pilots sitting in Port Hardy is negligible, so the only option is going down the coast and entering Juan de Fuca.

[Copper10-8]

52 minutes ago, asebastian said:

Thanks for clarifying, John.

Absolutely no prob! You take care and be safe in beautiful Melbourne, Oz land!

[ellieanne]

14 hours ago, AKJonesy said:

HOWEVER IN SAYING ALL OF THAT...I did confirm what other people have been saying on this board regarding cutbacks.  I have never responded very negatively to HAL when I've seen cut backs over years, but this time, I am.  It was beyond ridiculous...4/5 star mariners not allowed their loyalty benefit of having ANY priority for tenders?  I had to wait 45 minutes IN THE LOUNGE to receive a tender ticket AND to hear my number called.  The dining room staff cut-backs were evident and our MDR meal took 30 minutes between courses.  We did talk to the dining room manager about it and it seemed to improve, BUT it probably just meant the poor guys and gals just had to hustle even more.

Even before Covid, on several of my cruises, 4 & 5 Star Priority was discontinued as there were more 4 & 5 Star passengers than not. If everyone has priority, then no one does. I know that is a controversial decision, but I think it's a fair call when more than 80% of the passengers have 4 & 5 Star status.
On my last cruise in September, I noticed a delay in dinner service in the Main Dining Room. I blame that on Post-Covid and the Anytime Dining program. My experience was the delays were beginning before Covid, as the staff were more overworked with the Anytime Diners disrupting the smooth flow of fixed-time dinner service. I prefer fixed-time dinner service, and my experience is it is far easier to time everything in the Kitchens & Dining Room with a fixed-time service. I also noticed that the loss of wine stewards force the waiters & assistant waiters to be drink runners and that takes time away from dinner service. I felt bad for them, having to rush around without much time for thinking because someone is always unhappy with the service...either drink or meal. The current situation is a no-win for the dining room staff. I would personally bring back the wine stewards/drink servers and ditch the Anytime Dining. But that's me and my logical view of trying to make things smoother and easier for everyone.

[ski ww]

16 hours ago, Despegue said:

Hello ski ww,

 

This is not how things work at HAL or any other Cruise line that values Safety.

There is a concept called Just Culture, where one is not punished for mistakes that are not due to wilful disregard of procedures. ( google has some good websites explaining the concept, which originated in Aviation, like many Safety concepts onboard by the way). This promotes an open Safety culture where one is not afraid to come clear about errors made, where it is realised that most errors are the result of a wider failure in many departments, and focusing on ‘what went wrong, and how to avoid it in the future” rather than  who did this and how can we put the blame on him. It is vital for a Safe Operation of your Cruise ( or flight).

 

 

kind regards 

 

A Belgian Captain.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

On 5/14/2024 at 1:02 AM, asebastian said:

At least not Captain Wouter van Hoogdalem who stuffed up our stop at Komodo Island (Singapore Indonesia Discovery cruise) in Nov-Dec last year by disallowing anyone not on a ship excursion from taking the tender to the island (vague safety reasons were provided even though people with mobility issues were seen getting into the tender). After a lot of complaints, we received a letter of apology signed by the captain as well as USD250 non-refundable OBC to each passenger. We were literally 2 days from ending the cruise in Singapore so there was a rush to the shops to spend the OBC! I would have preferred the money to be in the form of FCC.

People without a prearranged excursion and written proof that a guide will be waiting for them are NEVER allowed to go ashore. That’s not a cruise line rule, it’s an Indonesian rule. It’s not the captain’s call. 
Edit: I notice you DID have a prearranged tour, just not with HAL. The captain made a definite mistake there, and you should, indeed, have been compensated!

Edited May 15 by Horizon chaser 1957

[Mary229]

17 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

People without a prearranged excursion and written proof that a guide will be waiting for them are NEVER allowed to go ashore. That’s not a cruise line rule, it’s an Indonesian rule. It’s not the captain’s call. 
Edit: I notice you DID have a prearranged tour, just not with HAL. The captain made a definite mistake there, and you should, indeed, have been compensated!

Maybe the guide did not follow the rules   It is a fairly recent rule and I can understand the confusion. I wonder if this was ever noted in port talks or daily programs 

Edited May 15 by Mary229

[AKJonesy]

8 hours ago, ellieanne said:

4 & 5 Star Priority was discontinued as there were more 4 & 5 Star passengers than not. If everyone has priority, then no one does. I know that is a controversial decision, but I think it's a fair call when more than 80% of the passengers have 4 & 5 Star status

In the Mariner Society Membership awards, priority tendering, embarkation and disembarkation is an EARNED benefit.  If HAL REVISED and published the MS benefits, then that is one thing, but they have not as far as I know and as a LOYAL HAL cruiser, yes, I would like the benefits as earned and as promised.  If they have published something new that changes the benefits, then that is something else.  To put this in a little more perspective it was the disorganization of how HAL was going about it.  The left did not seem to know what the right was doing.  I was not one of the people that went to the desk when this happened but many mariners did and guess what...we received a letter apologizing and the next tender port was open to mariners as a priority.  I am pretty low key on these things, but it was the snotty officer that angered me as if he had a right to talk down to me.  "Well, you got priority tendering in Sitka; didn't you?" Still...no priority disembarkation and that was the biggest cluster.  

[CruiserBruce]

On Zaandam last month, 4 and 5 star Mariners went to a separate location and got priority disembarkation tender tickets. No more just showing up at the tender platform and show your room key for priority.

[Mary229]

15 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

On Zaandam last month, 4 and 5 star Mariners went to a separate location and got priority disembarkation tender tickets. No more just showing up at the tender platform and show your room key for priority.

Same on the Koningsdam but the instructions were not clear.  The cruise director never did announce nor publish the second location and only those who got the message by word of mouth used the priority system.  Some spent a lot of time in line only to be sent to the “special area”

[Hlitner]

Our reaction would be BS!  Almost exactly 1 year ago, we were on a similar Westerdam itinerary from Japan to Seattle (same time of the year).  Just like on your cruise, we deviated from the Inside Passage itinerary with an explanation (from HAL) that it was for "Operational Reasons."  Off the record, we were told by senior staff that no pilot was available,  Interesting that this would happen on nearly identical voyages, with the same ship, almost exactly one year apart.

 

On that same voyage, we met a mariner/passenger who happens to live near the inside passage and owns his own vessel.  He explained to us that coming through the inside passage, during this time of the year, was a difficult sailing due to unusual fast-moving currents.  He was not surprised that the Westy did not make the passage, but was surprised that HAL would even schedule an itinerary that they should know was not going to happen!  Not sure if this mariner truly understood the situation, but he sure did seem quite knowledgeable about those waters.  Anoither interesting tidbit is we are not aware of other cruise lines having this similar issue (with scheduling an inside passage voyage that they cannot complete).

 

It is also hard to believe that a HAL ship would mistakenly take the wrong route.  The routing (and associated course changes) is worked-out well in advance (the responsibility of the Master and his team).   One is supposed to believe that the Captain, and all of his senior officers, did not notice that a plotted course was completely wrong?  If you believe this, I have the Rotterdam I for sale at a great price :).

 

Hank

[Fouremco]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

On that same voyage, we met a mariner/passenger who happens to live near the inside passage and owns his own vessel.  He explained to us that coming through the inside passage, during this time of the year, was a difficult sailing due to unusual fast-moving currents.  He was not surprised that the Westy did not make the passage, but was surprised that HAL would even schedule an itinerary that they should know was not going to happen! 

As HAL and multiple other lines have cruises departing and/or returning to Vancouver at this time of year that use the inner passage, I doubt that the currents are the cause of the Westerdam's changed itinerary.

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

As HAL and multiple other lines have cruises departing and/or returning to Vancouver at this time of year that use the inner passage, I doubt that the currents are the cause of the Westerdam's changed itinerary.

It is not clear to me when this occurrence took place but I agree it is not currents but sea ice could be an issue(?)

Edited May 15 by Mary229

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

As HAL and multiple other lines have cruises departing and/or returning to Vancouver at this time of year that use the inner passage, I doubt that the currents are the cause of the Westerdam's changed itinerary.

I also have some degree of skepticism, re the current issues, but thought the tale worth repeating (along with my own doubts).  What is indisputable is that two nearly identical HAL cruises (one year apart) with similar published itinerary, failed to follow the itinerary as published.  Perhaps the best answer is those who want to cruise the inside passage, with a high degree of certainty, look to cruise lines other than HAL.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

9 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

It is not clear to me when this occurrence took place but I agree it is not currents but sea ice could be an issue(?)

These cruises both happened in May.  If ice is the issue (unlikely) why would this not be disclosed?  We have been on other HAL cruises where ice was an issue (Prince Christian Sound) and the ice situation was fully explained.  Besides, the Inside Passage remains ice free, year-round, due to the moderating influence of the Pacific Ocean and relatively warm Japan Current.

 

Hank

[Fouremco]

10 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

It is not clear to me when this occurrence took place but I agree it is not currents but sea ice could be an issue(?)

Maybe, although I'm not seeing reports of other cruises that use the inside passage at this time of year being diverted to the west side of Vancouver Island due to sea ice. I still think that the cause was the result of human error or oversight, not Mother Nature.

[Mary229]

26 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

These cruises both happened in May.  If ice is the issue (unlikely) why would this not be disclosed?  We have been on other HAL cruises where ice was an issue (Prince Christian Sound) and the ice situation was fully explained.  Besides, the Inside Passage remains ice free, year-round, due to the moderating influence of the Pacific Ocean and relatively warm Japan Current.

 

Hank

Knowing it is May does clarify.  The traditional inside passage season does start in late April.  

[jeh10641]

23 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Besides my obvious first name some of us want to protect our privacy. If I post my full name someone could easily find me and know when I am away 

hi, Mary,

I did not mean your whole name. I hate writing to "Hey you". just a first name.

Jim