Silversea redundancies

[turtlemichael]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Read the industry news articles about NCL:  their CEO is crowing about all the ways they are finding to cut costs and boost passenger revenue.  [I don't care about Norwegian, but they own Oceania and Regent.]  No luxury line can survive if owned by a mega-cruise conglomerate.

So, of the three that most people would have regarded as luxury, Seabourn, Regent and Silversea, none will survive in your view? 

[Host Jazzbeau]

Just now, turtlemichael said:

So, of the three that most people would have regarded as luxury, Seabourn, Regent and Silversea, none will survive in your view? 

Not as luxury.  They will all be starved down to premium level.

[turtlemichael]

4 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Not as luxury.  They will all be starved down to premium level.

Yes, sorry, I was assuming that is what you meant. If you are correct and if the market is as strong as we tend to believe on these boards, there might be some good opportunities for an enterprising business out there.

[Tothesunset]

32 minutes ago, turtlemichael said:

Yes, sorry, I was assuming that is what you meant. If you are correct and if the market is as strong as we tend to believe on these boards, there might be some good opportunities for an enterprising business out there.

Crystal? 

[turtlemichael]

11 minutes ago, Tothesunset said:

Crystal? 

Crystal has two ships. Even if they expand there should still be plenty of opportunities in the market if Silversea, Seabourn and Regent vacate the field. 

[agape01]

Guess that is where Ritz Carlton, Explora and the upcoming Four Seasons would come into play.

[nfcu]

5 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Not as luxury.  They will all be starved down to premium level.

Hasn't Seabourn been owned by Carnival for decades?

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, nfcu said:

Hasn't Seabourn been owned by Carnival for decades?

Yes, but the complaints about cutbacks on their CC forum are recent.

[commodoredave]

On 5/23/2024 at 8:23 AM, nfcu said:

Hasn't Seabourn been owned by Carnival for decades?

It seems that the biggest cutbacks and price increases have come post-Covid as the mega-cruise companies try to increase profits to pay down debt. This applies to all of the cruise lines from mass market to luxury. 

[vistaman]

18 hours ago, commodoredave said:

It seems that the biggest cutbacks and price increases have come post-Covid as the mega-cruise companies try to increase profits to pay down debt. This applies to all of the cruise lines from mass market to luxury. 

that is very true   : Silver Dawn last year in July  -  Silver Dawn April 

a serious downfal in the F&B operations  

[turtlemichael]

This thread started advising of staff terminations in Australia. Our TA, a very experienced one operating solely in the luxury market, has now got experience of the new arrangements. 

 

We are having to change an upcoming cruise (final payment is due in a couple of weeks) for personal reasons. We know exactly what we want to do and the TA knows too. The agent now has to contact the call centre in the Philippines rather than the Sydney Office.

 

The problem our TA has had is twofold:  understanding what the call centre agent is actually saying because of strong accents and secondly, getting on to an agent who has even a basic understanding of how Silversea works.

 

In the end the agent abandoned the call and tried again. Same issues. It was eventually resolved when the agent got onto a personal contact elsewhere in the Silversea system.

 

If this is the future, we will all have a problem when our queries go beyond the most basic of issues.

[drron29]

Very sad @turtlemichael

I am getting much more certain in my belief that our remaining bookings on SS will be our last.

[Elizabethbea]

 Yes , my TA, also very experienced dealing in Luxe market, informs me that on the weekends she now does not contact SS, as the call is rerouted to Phillipines /India where the accent is so strong it is impossible to understand , and the SS agent is not familiar with the SS product. 

[Fletcher]

My hitherto reliable personal cruise consultant, based in Silversea's London office, no longer responds to emails or is available by phone.  We are very close to cancelling our upcoming cruise.

[MBP&O2/O]

I see that P&O Australia have been assimilated into their parent company and they are being rebranded accordingly. I wonder if, down the line, the same will happen with Silversea?

As the Borg said ... Resistance is futile 😉

 

[mahasamatman]

On 5/19/2024 at 5:54 PM, DavyWavey70 said:

Don’t you have any real laws over there?

 

Yes, they're just different from yours. Please don't assume that your country is the gold standard, because you will be wrong in the eyes of most of the world.

 

Most U.S. companies operate as "at will" employers, which means that either side may terminate the employment relationship for any reason at any time without notice. If the termination is not "for cause" (basically criminal behaviour or egregious malfeasance), the employee is legally entitled to termination benefits, which can be substantial for someone with years of experience. I know people who have received over two years of salary and benefits for being layed off.

[AveSaloon]

2 hours ago, mahasamatman said:

If the termination is not "for cause" (basically criminal behaviour or egregious malfeasance), the employee is legally entitled to termination benefits, 

 

Try again.

 

There is no legal requirement for "termination benefits" as a matter of US Federal employment law, with the exception of COBRA for health insurance coverage.   There may be specific state laws that come into play, but anything else is a matter of company policy, not federal law.  Also, employees may have pension or 401K or IRA issues that are outside of any "benefits", and whether or not the employee is covered by any kind of labor/employment contract.

 

Federal law is primarily aimed at wrongful terminations, such as for retaliation on a whistleblower or regarding union activity.  Also, it concerns discriminatory firings, such as for race, religion and other "protected classes".

 

I do know that Canadian employment law is significantly different than US, which may be what you are thinking of.

 

And if you want to see laws that truly "protect" the worker, look to France.

 

 

[DavyWavey70]

2 hours ago, mahasamatman said:

 

Yes, they're just different from yours. Please don't assume that your country is the gold standard, because you will be wrong in the eyes of most of the world.

 

Most U.S. companies operate as "at will" employers, which means that either side may terminate the employment relationship for any reason at any time without notice. If the termination is not "for cause" (basically criminal behaviour or egregious malfeasance), the employee is legally entitled to termination benefits, which can be substantial for someone with years of experience. I know people who have received over two years of salary and benefits for being layed off.

I’ve no first hand knowledge, I was merely asking the question after reading others responses that imply that there is little or no protection. Did the people that you know that have received over two years salary receive those benefits because of a legal entitlement? Just curious. 

[DavyWavey70]

23 minutes ago, AveSaloon said:

And if you want to see laws that truly "protect" the worker, look to France.

 

 

I’d rather not!

[tfred]

15 hours ago, mahasamatman said:

 

Yes, they're just different from yours. Please don't assume that your country is the gold standard, because you will be wrong in the eyes of most of the world.

 

Most U.S. companies operate as "at will" employers, which means that either side may terminate the employment relationship for any reason at any time without notice. If the termination is not "for cause" (basically criminal behaviour or egregious malfeasance), the employee is legally entitled to termination benefits, which can be substantial for someone with years of experience. I know people who have received over two years of salary and benefits for being layed off.

Companies have any number of ways to fire you without any benefits (other than your ability to buy insurance)   Happens every day, especially now

 

First is a re-organization where the staff is juggled and your position and title are eliminated   Someone else does your job with a different title.  

 

Second is a PIP (Personal Improvement Program) that details the ways your are not performing up to the level the company mandates.  The "improvement" period and measurements are almost impossible to achieve - by design.  

 

Multi year severance programs are unheard of. 

[Gourmet Gal]

29 minutes ago, tfred said:

 

 

Second is a PIP (Personal Improvement Program) that details the ways your are not performing up to the level the company mandates.  The "improvement" period and measurements are almost impossible to achieve - by design.  

 

 

As a manager in California who had to work create PIPs with employees who were not performing, I can tell you the programs were not impossible to achieve.  We had successes and in some cases the employee discovered the job was not right for them after all and in the end a few had to be let go.  The PIPs cannot legally be out of the norm for what is expected of any employee.  Nothing nefarious but I’m sure there are abuses.