Don't Shoot the Messengers About NCL's/O's Cost-cutting Measures: A Fact of Life Today

[clo]

4 hours ago, pinotlover said:

scampering

Perfect.

[JeffElizabeth]

Strange that they feel the need to do cost cutting when it looks like bookings keep rising. 

Does anyone else notice how much advertising Oceania does? WSJ in addition to all the mailers and catalogs.  

[Hlitner]

13 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

Strange that they feel the need to do cost cutting when it looks like bookings keep rising. 

Does anyone else notice how much advertising Oceania does? WSJ in addition to all the mailers and catalogs.  

Not so strange.  Businesses fail, all the time, despite having lots of customers.  While the number of bookings is very important, it comes down to the cost per person/day vs the revenue per person/day.   A ship can make a profit with 50% of berths sold, as long as the revenue per day of those sold berths is enough to cover costs plus.  On the other hand, they could lose money with 100% of berths sold unless they generate sufficient revenue per person/day.

 

Some of us here on CC, have been interested in the first years of the new Explora Journeys cruise line.  That line is obviously operating at a loss (probably big loss) since it began operations about 1 year ago.  Some of us wonder how many years the Aponte family (who owns the MSC empire) will accept the losses before they make "adjustments."  Unlike "O" and the other lines of the NCLH, CCL and RCI corporations, the MSC family (which includes Explora Journeys) is financially able to subsidize a new luxury line that is constantly losing money.  

 

The difference is that O is part of NCLH, which is a public company.  Not only do they need to cover costs, which now includes huge debt service obligations, but they also need to satisfy their major stockholders.  That puts a lot of pressure on the "suits" to generate an immediate profit which means increasing prices and decreasing costs.  MSC, on the other hand, is a privately held corporation, that only needs to satisfy a single owner (the Aponte's) who is willing to lose money (in the near term) to create their "baby."   Why did I mention EJ?  Because we think that line has the best cuisine at sea, because their owners are willing to lose money if that is what it takes to build a good reputation and high-end line.

 

Hank

[pinotlover]

People need to take a look at all the sales continuously going on for 2024 cruises. Look at berths available, after Final Payment Date, after the Lookie Loos have been cleared out. None of my last three cruises have been near full , including an early sailing on the Vista. 

[Vallesan]

31 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

People need to take a look at all the sales continuously going on for 2024 cruises. Look at berths available, after Final Payment Date, after the Lookie Loos have been cleared out. None of my last three cruises have been near full , including an early sailing on the Vista. 

I have a feeling this autumn may be slightly different. I’ve been looking at September/October and am yet to find any  balcony cabin that’s not at either end of a ship or isn’t exorbitant. I’m watching Oceania, Seabourn, Silversea and even Regent who would be my last choice. I’m waitlisted, no:1 on one Oceania cruise but after speaking with my Oceania rep she thinks waitlisted cabins that free up are going to be few and far between! Will just have to wait and see I guess.

 

P.S. it seems that there are no where near the same number of ‘Lookie Loos’,as you call them, since the introduction of penalties prior to final payment.

Edited Wednesday at 01:38 PM by Vallesan

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, Vallesan said:

I have a feeling this autumn may be slightly different. I’ve been looking at September/October and am yet to find any  balcony cabin that’s not at either end of a ship or isn’t exorbitant. I’m watching Oceania, Seabourn, Silversea and even Regent who would be my last choice. I’m waitlisted, no:1 on one Oceania cruise but after speaking with my Oceania rep she thinks waitlisted cabins that free up are going to be few and far between! Will just have to wait and see I guess.

 

P.S. it seems that there are no where near the same number of ‘Lookie Loos’,as you call them, since the introduction of penalties prior to final payment.

So cabins available, that O wants/needs to sell, just none that you personally want. There’s a difference. Kinda like people that say they can’t get dinner reservations, but then admit that only two tops at 6:30 is acceptable.

 

That new cancellation charge is chump change for many of O cruisers. May slow a few down, but not very many.

Edited Wednesday at 03:16 PM by pinotlover

[Vallesan]

17 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

So cabins available, that O wants/needs to sell, just none that you personally want. There’s a difference. Kinda like people that say they can’t get dinner reservations, but then admit that only two tops at 6:30 is acceptable.

 

That new cancellation charge is chump change for many of O cruisers. May slow a few down, but not very many.

Maybe you’re right but I have to say on the cruise I’m really interested in there are only a handful, literally, of B cabins in odd places and I’m not sure I want to spend that sort of money on those cabins when not a lot more gives me something I really want. If it was 50% less I might think about it!

 

I agree that the new charges aren’t that high in the US but in the UK they mount up pretty quickly they go from immediately after booking , £150pp 181 days or more prior to departure, to £500 pp 180 - 121 days prior to departure which is basically final payment date. So, at today’s rates that’s near enough to $190 & $630pp. Maybe not substantial to some but I certainly wouldn’t want a ‘choice’ of cruises booked if each one was going to incur a cancellation fee of $380 to $1360 per cruise!
 

[EJL2023]

Our cruise in October has been wait listed for several months except for a category or two every once in a while. And usually then only one cabin would show available. It has been completely Wait Listed since about 10 days prior to final payment. 

[Vallesan]

4 minutes ago, EJL2023 said:

Our cruise in October has been wait listed for several months except for a category or two every once in a while. And usually then only one cabin would show available. It has been completely Wait Listed since about 10 days prior to final payment. 

Yes I understand that. I have to be honest I don’t think a cabin will open up for us. Maybe that’s the way it’s meant to be!

[EJL2023]

5 minutes ago, Vallesan said:

Yes I understand that. I have to be honest I don’t think a cabin will open up for us. Maybe that’s the way it’s meant to be!

Just keep an eye open for your next Oceania adventure! All you can do sometimes. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:28 PM by EJL2023

[Kay S]

1 hour ago, EJL2023 said:

Our cruise in October has been wait listed for several months except for a category or two every once in a while. And usually then only one cabin would show available. It has been completely Wait Listed since about 10 days prior to final payment. 

Same situation here, which is why we chose to go with a lower cabin rather than risk the waitlist.  This cruise is the exact itinerary and dates we wanted.  We might have gone with another line if they had a cruise that satisfied those requirements.  I'm sure my first O cruise is going to be fabulous!

[sunlover12]

My September cruise on Nautica is waitlisted in every category except inside staterooms. PH and veranda staterooms have been waitlisted for several months. There sure aren't many looky-loos for this cruise. Final payment is tomorrow but I'm not expecting any cabins to become available. 

 

This cruise has never been included in any of the sales.  Not only that, but the price per day is the highest of any cruise I've ever been on.  Demand remains high. 

[ORV]

One word, "Itinerary"

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, pinotlover said:

People need to take a look at all the sales continuously going on for 2024 cruises. Look at berths available, after Final Payment Date, after the Lookie Loos have been cleared out. None of my last three cruises have been near full , including an early sailing on the Vista. 

We are O newbies, having just taken one O cruise (and having another cancelled due to COVID issues).  But when we shop around (among many lines) for future cruises, we have noticed that O does tend to sell-out their better itineraries...more then a year in advance.  This is not so common on other cruise lines.  O is also one of the few cruise lines that maintains waiting lists and charges a deposit to be on the wait list.  For whatever reason, we get the feeling a lot of O fans quickly book future cruises, to hold space, and often cancel before final payment.  We do not see this on most other lines with which we deal.  

 

MSC used to have a problem with folks booking their popular Yacht Club, to hold space, and later cancelling.  Since the YC tended to sell out rather early, this was a way for folks to guarantee a berth with no risk (deposits were low and refundable).  MSC finally caught on, and decided to make YC deposits non-refundable!  That stopped the false booking issue :).

 

We are seeing the trend, among many lines, towards non-refundable deposits.  In some cases the various lines give a discount for folks choosing non-refundable and in other cases (like MSC) you have no choice.  Some lines, like the new Explora Journeys, give a discount for paying the entire fare at or near the time of booking.  These schemes tend to keep out the folks that book many cruises with the intent of only taking a very few.

 

Hank

[EJL2023]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We are O newbies, having just taken one O cruise (and having another cancelled due to COVID issues).  But when we shop around (among many lines) for future cruises, we have noticed that O does tend to sell-out their better itineraries...more then a year in advance.  This is not so common on other cruise lines.  O is also one of the few cruise lines that maintains waiting lists and charges a deposit to be on the wait list.  For whatever reason, we get the feeling a lot of O fans quickly book future cruises, to hold space, and often cancel before final payment.  We do not see this on most other lines with which we deal.  

 

MSC used to have a problem with folks booking their popular Yacht Club, to hold space, and later cancelling.  Since the YC tended to sell out rather early, this was a way for folks to guarantee a berth with no risk (deposits were low and refundable).  MSC finally caught on, and decided to make YC deposits non-refundable!  That stopped the false booking issue :).

 

We are seeing the trend, among many lines, towards non-refundable deposits.  In some cases the various lines give a discount for folks choosing non-refundable and in other cases (like MSC) you have no choice.  Some lines, like the new Explora Journeys, give a discount for paying the entire fare at or near the time of booking.  These schemes tend to keep out the folks that book many cruises with the intent of only taking a very few.

 

Hank

You are only charged a deposit for wait listing if you are wanting to be added to the Priority Wait List. Standard Wait List does not require a deposit. At least that is as I recall. 

[Sthrngary]

One of the most profitable companies in the world is Toyota Motor Sales (TMS).  Every year they found ways to cut costs.  Even years with great earnings.  The key, as I have mentioned before, was cut costs, but not quality.  They were the best that that kind of thinking. 

 

Now do I put NCL or Oceania or Regent in the same category, NO.  I do say, "if the value received does not exceed the price by one penny, the client will consider buying elsewhere." 

 

Any cruise line, if they cut to a point where it does not suit me or any other client, I will purchase elsewhere.  If you charge me a fare, tell me what I will receive and do not deliver, you lose your client base and have to depend on other coming to your brand for the first time.  Why, they are looking for a change from the brand they used to love. 

 

If Oceania or any cruise brand does not fulfil my needs, I will let my pocket book to the talking.  Until that happens, I look forward to my next cruise, on Oceania for 10-days on the Vista in the Mediterranean in October 2025. 

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, Sthrngary said:

One of the most profitable companies in the world is Toyota Motor Sales (TMS).  Every year they found ways to cut costs.  Even years with great earnings.  The key, as I have mentioned before, was cut costs, but not quality.  They were the best that that kind of thinking. 

 

Now do I put NCL or Oceania or Regent in the same category, NO.  I do say, "if the value received does not exceed the price by one penny, the client will consider buying elsewhere." 

 

Any cruise line, if they cut to a point where it does not suit me or any other client, I will purchase elsewhere.  If you charge me a fare, tell me what I will receive and do not deliver, you lose your client base and have to depend on other coming to your brand for the first time.  Why, they are looking for a change from the brand they used to love. 

 

If Oceania or any cruise brand does not fulfil my needs, I will let my pocket book to the talking.  Until that happens, I look forward to my next cruise, on Oceania for 10-days on the Vista in the Mediterranean in October 2025. 

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

Herein lies the problem. I was on an 17 day SE Asia O R ship cruise in 2017 with a lady that only briefly left the ship.she proudly proclaimed she had lobster 34 times during the cruise. Never ate in the GDR because lobster wasn’t served.

 

Here’s the question: would 99% of us care if lobster was only served 3 maybe 4 times per week in the Terrace? Would that even be a cost savings if they did? I can get Oceania quality frozen lobster tails for as little as $5.99 each, regularly at $6.99 each.  I rarely find ship lobster to be good as it is often grotesquely overcooked. Some people obviously love rubber band chewy lobster. 

Lots of reasonable cost savings are at hand. The issue is which can be achieved at the lowest volume level. I’m certain that lady would have squealed loudly if she only got lobster 33 times. Is that significant enough to overlook cost saving potentials?

 

[Kay S]

Some people really like lobster. When I was a much younger person I equated cruising with non-stop lobster and caviar. Then I went on a cruise. 😂  I think that idea is still out there. A cruise isn’t luxurious without lobster. 

[clo]

1 hour ago, Kay S said:

A cruise isn’t luxurious without lobster. 

I only had it in the TC so luxury not required 🙂 I really loved the lamb chop.

[Waltershipman]

1 hour ago, Kay S said:

Some people really like lobster. When I was a much younger person I equated cruising with non-stop lobster and caviar. Then I went on a cruise. 😂  I think that idea is still out there. A cruise isn’t luxurious without lobster. 

While in Barbados on cruise in February got off ship and ate 2 lb lobsters in local restaurant BIG FUN

[Kay S]

3 hours ago, clo said:

I only had it in the TC so luxury not required 🙂 I really loved the lamb chop.

Frankly, I'd rather have a lamb chop than a lobster.

[Hlitner]

10 hours ago, Kay S said:

Frankly, I'd rather have a lamb chop than a lobster.

When we are paying for a premium or luxury line, we prefer both lamb chops and lobster.  O did deliver on our recent Vista cruise and did a pretty good job with both items.

 

Hank

[Waltershipman]

26 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

When we are paying for a premium or luxury line, we prefer both lamb chops and lobster.  O did deliver on our recent Vista cruise and did a pretty good job with both items.

 

Hank

Agreed Back a few years in early 2000 I had lamb and lobster for breakfast or dinner on O most every day

[Thought2go]

On 6/26/2024 at 9:36 AM, Vallesan said:

On 6/26/2024 at 9:05 AM, pinotlover said:

People need to take a look at all the sales continuously going on for 2024 cruises. Look at berths available, after Final Payment Date, after the Lookie Loos have been cleared out. None of my last three cruises have been near full , including an early sailing on the Vista. 

Expand  

I have a feeling this autumn may be slightly different. I’ve been looking at September/October and am yet to find any  balcony cabin that’s not at either end of a ship or isn’t exorbitant. I’m watching Oceania, Seabourn, Silversea and even Regent who would be my last choice. I’m waitlisted, no:1 on one Oceania cruise but after speaking with my Oceania rep she thinks waitlisted cabins that free up are going to be few and far between! Will just have to wait and see I guess.

Well showing the cruise waitlisted I would imagine would spur some folks to do whatever they needed to do to up their chances of getting onboard. Also Shore excursions prices can increase during that time period and often do. Wonderful psychological tactic too.

Instead of making 100 bikes for sale at $5- cut Mfg costs on labor & materials (great for shareholders and stock prices) and sell 10  bikes for $50

[Liao]

These conversations are happening on social media sites, you know the ones we can’t mention here.  And to a person for each they are all the same, just fill in the cruise line xxxxx, cutbacks, meat quality, awful or no lobster, reduced wine choices and quality, blah blah blah.  The cruise industry is filling the ships regardless of all the naysayers.  Frankly it’s so tiresome.