Another man overboard (Freedom of the Seas)

[36kruzes]

[quote name='pmshirl']Just got off the Liberty this past Sunday. Had a balcony cabin and the 2 men (approx. in late 20's) were plastered every night and out on the balcony. We could hear the chairs being knocked against the balcony glass, the two of them horsing around and pushing each other while falling on to the balcony deck. When they were inside their cabins, it sounded as if someone was gonna come through the wall, and this went on until 5am. We tried to call and report it, and the call was on hold for over 45 minutes and no one ever picked up the call. The next morning we reported it in person, and the noise continued every night and nothing was done about it. The security dept. must take action against these type of cruisers, or they will continue to have over board pax!

After arriving at the Miami airport on 6/16, we were told by an airline employee, that 11 Cubans were caught climbing from a row boat on to a carnival cruise ship, after it left Miami pier. The coast guard did not interfere with removing the 11 cubans until the ship was to get into international waters. That way they would be returned to Cuba.
I would like to know how someone can get on to the ship, just like how someone can fall overboard![/quote]


I feel for you on that cruise with the noisy kids -- last year on Navigator we had similar problems with young people above us in the cabin and on their balcony -- I did get thru to security and made a huge deal out of it -- more than once - and it quieted down. Yay.

Ever notice how these same "overboard" and "drinking" issues tend not to be so common in cooler waters, like the Alaska cruises? It's always the Caribbean, Mexico, etc., where young people just can't seem to stay on the ships! Hmm........... could it be all the partying and drinking and the preponderance of those under age 30 on so many of these cruises now? Cruising ain't what it used to be --Give me the good old days. Last cruise for us was a year ago and no plans for any in future.

[Biz45]

[quote name='WMG/LMG']If he is dumb and stupid who cares what happens? i feel sorry for the other passengers who will miss a stop in St. Thomas because of this idiot.[/quote]

I really do think that you should retract this post. It would be one very sad world, if we all stopped caring.:confused:

[Kelan]

[quote name='SherriZ366']I bet the family will still sue. And if International Cruise Victims Association gets involved, they will pressure the family to sue even if their first inclination is not to take legal action.[/quote]

Taking legal action is pointless. They won't get their son back sueing RCCL. On the other hand, I wonder if affected passengers could sue RCCL for the change in intinerary or the stress caused by the authorities inside the Freedom.

[36kruzes]

[quote name='cruisefanatic01']Maybe RCCL bartenders should start rejecting service to already intoxicated people like they do in the local bars. If people keep falling overboard, that's going to lead to lawsuits, which are going to lead to more expensive cruises for us.[/quote]


Sure, the bartenders could refuse service to the obviously inebriated, but most of the partiers probably have plenty more in their cabins, so that wouldn't slow them down much.

[TRadle]

[quote name='36kruzes']
Ever notice how these same "overboard" and "drinking" issues tend not to be so common in cooler waters, like the Alaska cruises? It's always the Caribbean, Mexico, etc., where young people just can't seem to stay on the ships! Hmm........... could it be all the partying and drinking and the preponderance of those under age 30 on so many of these cruises now? Cruising ain't what it used to be --Give me the good old days. Last cruise for us was a year ago and no plans for any in future.[/quote]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] Towards the end of the last article linked they had a statistic: “Cruise lines reported at least 24 missing people from 2000 to 2005, compared with the estimated 10 million passengers that travel every year.”[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]I don’t think it happens as often as it seems given those numbers. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SherriZ366]

[quote name='Kelan']Taking legal action is pointless. They won't get their son back sueing RCCL. On the other hand, I wonder if affected passengers could sue RCCL for the change in intinerary or the stress caused by the authorities inside the Freedom.[/QUOTE] Legal action got the wife of the missing honeymooner a settlement of $1 million plus from RCCL. I agree that it won't get their son back but the Internation Cruise Victims Association seems to promote legal action. Frankly, if the other passengers sued and got settlements from RCCL or other cruise lines, it would be reflected in higher cruise prices.

One idea that could do some good is to have video spots inserted in onboard TV programs about the dangers of sitting on a balcony or climbing from balcony to balcony etc.

[Catnip]

[quote name='36kruzes'] Cruising ain't what it used to be --Give me the good old days. [/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]AMEN!!!!!!!!! [/SIZE][/FONT]

[MINIDRVR]

I suppose the Long John's Silver TV commercial that I've heard about hasn't helped the situation, has it:eek: . Maybe he got the idea from that...........

I'm for Pro-self-Control instead of our culture giving in to every selfish impulse...........if it was self murder then the person is never thinking about those left behind.......:(

[sweet angel]

[quote name='luvmytbear']For some reason, your response to my Pavlov question gave me a mental picture of drooling dogs going overboard a ship. Brain lapse, and I forgot to elaborate before hitting submit. It was too late to edit by the time I re-read my post since it was just now. I should stop posting on my study breaks when my brain is usually occupied elsewhere! :D I'm sorry! :)[/quote]

Ah, okay. I thought I was totally off the wall on something!

I just noticed you have a quote from Shawn Michaels? I luvvvvvs me some Shawn Michaels. :D

[fungirl76]

in reference to the cubans that a cruise ship took onboard. It was the Princess Coral. I was on the ship and some of the comments passengers said made me sick. There were 16 cubans on a row boat that was sinking. The staff did a great job of rescuing them and taking them aboard while we sailed to meet the coast guard. The cubans were so thankful for everything the cruise ship did for them and as 2000 passengers wathced them get taken off by the coast guard they looked up and said Gracias to all of us. I feel for those young people who risked their lives to have a better chance at it.

[AmyGarner]

When I was on the VOS in 2003, we picked up a small "boat" with cubans in it on our way back from Cozumel. I don't know what happened to them though.

[BillOh]

[quote name='scejas']U.S. Coast Guard is working to search for a passenger that was reported over board from the Royal Caribbean Freedom of the Seas somewhere between Exuma, Bahamas and San Salvador.[/quote]


They can't narrow down when he fell to a few days? That is like saying the guy got off the bus somewhere between NY and Tuscon.

[EBFURR]

"[I]I think I read where the family of the young man who fell off the Mariner were originally not going to sue after they viewed the video tape of their son going overboard and the tape of he and friends drinking the smuggled booze. However, they have become active in the International Cruise Victims Association (started by the Smiths and others) and may have changed their mind due to this type of influence."[/I]

We were on the Mariner last year a couple of weeks after this boy went overboard. We talked at length to one of the bartenders about it. According to her, the security video clearly showed the boy on the promenade deck (#4) sitting in a chair for a long while. He was just staring out at the ocean, then suddenly got up and went to the rail. He then climbed up and jumped. The boy's mother asked for the section of railing that he jumped from and RCI cut it out and gave it to her. We could see the new section of railing when we went out to the spot.

The boys had been drinking heavily all day, both from their smuggled stash, and from the ship's bars. The boy in question had been cut off at one bar. He simply went to another bar and ordered more drinks. The bartender that we spoke with said that RCI had been stressing to them for quite some time NOT to over serve customers. This event, of course, caused even more emphasis on the matter. The main problem (other than smuggled booze) is that people can go from place to place and order drinks. Sometimes it is very difficult for a bartender to determine the intoxication level of someone who has just appeared at the bar. They are not always "falling down drunk". It is very hard to know which drink will put them over their limit.

As this poster said, the parents of the boy seemed at the time to accept the fact that their son had made a tragic mistake and did not blame RCI. In the past year, they have apparently been persuaded to think otherwise.

[Catnip]

[quote name='psychboss']Many politician will not vote for it because so many of them are lawyers, but it is mostly the Dems that are blocking it! This country needs it BAD!

Everybody wants to sue everybody for everything and all it does is cost you and you and you and I money. BUT THE LAWYERS GET RICH - DO YOU KNOW HOW EDWARDS MADE ALL HIS MONEY - LOOK IT UP![/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=5]
AMEN!!!!!!! [/SIZE][/FONT]

[SherriZ366]

[quote name='EBFURR']"[I]I think I read where the family of the young man who fell off the Mariner were originally not going to sue after they viewed the video tape of their son going overboard and the tape of he and friends drinking the smuggled booze. However, they have become active in the International Cruise Victims Association (started by the Smiths and others) and may have changed their mind due to this type of influence."[/I]

We were on the Mariner last year a couple of weeks after this boy went overboard. We talked at length to one of the bartenders about it. According to her, the security video clearly showed the boy on the promenade deck (#4) sitting in a chair for a long while. He was just staring out at the ocean, then suddenly got up and went to the rail. He then climbed up and jumped. The boy's mother asked for the section of railing that he jumped from and RCI cut it out and gave it to her. We could see the new section of railing when we went out to the spot.

The boys had been drinking heavily all day, both from their smuggled stash, and from the ship's bars. The boy in question had been cut off at one bar. He simply went to another bar and ordered more drinks. The bartender that we spoke with said that RCI had been stressing to them for quite some time NOT to over serve customers. This event, of course, caused even more emphasis on the matter. The main problem (other than smuggled booze) is that people can go from place to place and order drinks. Sometimes it is very difficult for a bartender to determine the intoxication level of someone who has just appeared at the bar. They are not always "falling down drunk". It is very hard to know which drink will put them over their limit.

As this poster said, the parents of the boy seemed at the time to accept the fact that their son had made a tragic mistake and did not blame RCI. In the past year, they have apparently been persuaded to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]
That's the first account where it sounds more like suicide for the boy who fell off the Mariner. That really puts the lawsuit in an even different light.

[TRadle]

That's the first account where it sounds more like suicide for the boy who fell off the Mariner. That really puts the lawsuit in an even different light.

 

 

I think I would put more stock into the published news account about what was seen on the tape than hearsay from a bartender. Are you familiar with the telephone game? ;)

[wernew2cruising]

Legal action got the wife of the missing honeymooner a settlement of $1 million plus from RCCL. I agree that it won't get their son back but the Internation Cruise Victims Association seems to promote legal action. Frankly, if the other passengers sued and got settlements from RCCL or other cruise lines, it would be reflected in higher cruise prices.

 

One idea that could do some good is to have video spots inserted in onboard TV programs about the dangers of sitting on a balcony or climbing from balcony to balcony etc.

 

 

Maybe we need to get a jury of cruise critic members, no award given, lawsuits will stop!!!! There is an idea!!!!!

[Sundagger]

They can't narrow down when he fell to a few days? That is like saying the guy got off the bus somewhere between NY and Tuscon.

If you would actually read the information presented before posting, you would know the time last seen (Monday 1:45am) and the time reported missing ("about 7 hours later"). NY and Tucson are only around 100 miles apart? They must have moved one of them.

[mollyeilis]

And some think it's rude or wrong to hold the family or the passenger (if found), responsible for expenses? This nonsense has to stop.

 

I thought I had another quote about billing the families, but I can't find it now.

 

 

I've only read people being hesitant about billing the FAMILIES of someone who harms themselves either by their will or their irresponsibility.

 

The problem with billing the families is that they are not, or are only marginally, at fault for the decisions made by a person. So to pass that along doesn't solve anything.

 

My own FIL lied all his life about leaving lots of money for his family, he held his will over his "loved ones" to keep them in line. And then left nothing. In fact he left a legacy of lies to find out, including the fact that he hadn't even FILED taxes since 2000 (abusive, controlling marriage + wife who was not allowed to become fluent in English = easy life for FIL, but horrible situation once he died) which means MIL has to pay over 50K in back taxes and fees for tax years he told her were taken care of (turbo tax electronic signature really helped him out in his lies).

 

Knowing that his wife would pay for his cremation from her PITTANCE of a SS payment, knowing that his wife would have to deal with the taxes, knowing that he had no life insurance, that he had stolen almost all of the value of HER life insurance that very year (so she couldn't cash out for the expected 20K, and instead got around $700)....knowing ALL of those things meant NOTHING to the man.

 

And he was almost 80, he knew he was going to die sooner rather than later.

 

To think that a younger, possibly depressed, possibly drinking, person is going to take that seriously enough to actually change their behaviour, is to put quite a bit onto that person. Now, for someone like me, that does change my behaviour, but I've always been a very serious person.

 

 

It is cause and effect. If a person is a responsible drinker, he will not get so drunk that he falls off. .... We don't need more rules, we need more responsible persons.

 

 

Ach. Alcohol by its very nature changes behaviour. And behaviour changes aren't always for the better. I'm a responsible drinker, but I've been surprised sometimes by alcohol's effects even when drinking it responsibly, b/c the nature of drinking causes you to feel better, much of the time, and not as drunk, than/as you are.

 

 

It's very sad, about this guy. It's very sad, to be the family in a situation where you can't *just* grieve, where there is anger, shock, and the like, along with the sadness. You are angry with the person, and that can translate to wanting to place blame on others. In the case of my FIL, we felt a case could surely been made against the "care" he received at the hospital (I could go ON but I won't), but it would probably have been borderline in actually making our case to the medical watchdog types and no one had the money to try. Whereas in a case where the media is already watching, where lawyers are dropping by...it's probably much easier to let the anger at the person's actions spill over into whatever company can pay.

 

(by the way, IMO, payment after someone's death doesn't take away the pain of the death, but if it's found that the company WAS at fault, a suit will show that they were at fault, and the money is to punish them in a way that can be felt by a company, b/c a "tsk tsk" from the judge won't deter future bad actions) (figured that out in the years since my mom's death at the hands of her doctors, when my stepfather refused to let me even try to prove they were at fault)

 

Discussion of above does NOT mean that I think RCCL is necessarily at fault. It's just a discussion.

 

 

And I still feel so bad for his family.

[EBFURR]

I think I would put more stock into the published news account about what was seen on the tape than hearsay from a bartender. Are you familiar with the telephone game? ;)

 

Tradle, which news account are you referring to? I am under the impression that there is no question that the young man jumped off the railing. My understanding is that the lawsuit is based on three major contentions:

 

1. That the cruise line creates an environment where over indulgence is encouraged.

2. That the young man was served alchohol by the cruise line after he was already thoroughly intoxicated (he was refused service at one bar, but was later served at another).

3. That the security cameras are not properly monitored. They contend that if the cruise line monitored the cameras they would have seen him jump and there would have been an opportunity for rescue.

 

The bartender that I quoted actually served the young man earlier on that day and she was very, very upset about what happened. None of the staff wants to be a party to such a tragic death.

 

I am curious as to what you have seen that contradicts this. I am not doubting you, I am just curious since we heard so much about it on board last year.

[Nliedel]

Billing families is not a good idea, imo. My father has issues, I love him, but am not responsible for him.

 

People are going to fall and jump off ship. It's tragic and it's sad and it's not stoppable. It's one of those things that everyone has to grit their teeth and get through. It's horrible for the families and sad all the way around.

[TRadle]

Tradle, which news account are you referring to? I am under the impression that there is no question that the young man jumped off the railing. My understanding is that the lawsuit is based on three major contentions:

 

1. That the cruise line creates an environment where over indulgence is encouraged.

2. That the young man was served alchohol by the cruise line after he was already thoroughly intoxicated (he was refused service at one bar, but was later served at another).

3. That the security cameras are not properly monitored. They contend that if the cruise line monitored the cameras they would have seen him jump and there would have been an opportunity for rescue.

 

The bartender that I quoted actually served the young man earlier on that day and she was very, very upset about what happened. None of the staff wants to be a party to such a tragic death.

 

I am curious as to what you have seen that contradicts this. I am not doubting you, I am just curious since we heard so much about it on board last year.

 

There is a link posted on this thread to a news article about it.

[sal7202]

Hummm .... Billing families is not fair because they are not responsible for the actions of another .... Then by the same logic, it should follow that families should not be able to sue the cruise line.

 

Unfortunately, they seem more than willing to cash in on the irresponsible actions of that same family member. I often wonder are they really that greedy that they are ready to play "Lawsuit Lotto" at the drop of a hat? Or, are they just so mortified that their loved one went out in public and behaved so reprehensibly that it resulted in their own death, and therefore they are trying to blame someone else so that the deceased doesn't appear to be such a miscreant?

[sweet angel]

So the $200 per cabin credit that RCI issued...who should reimburse them for that? Or should RCI suck it up since it's their ship and they are responsible for the actions of a drunk man who couldn't be responsible for himself? :rolleyes: Personally, I think that's ridiculous. I think that cost should be passed on to the family.

 

Again I ask, when a person dies in the hospital after receiving medical treatment, is payment still expected or does that debt die with him?

 

THe person who jumped/fell is responsible for his/her actions unless the cruiseline is CLEARLY negligent, which, in most of these cases is not the case. Therefore the person's estate should be barred from lawsuits and made to pay restitution for the expenses incurred for the search and rescue.

[lilmisstramp]

Therefore the person's estate should be barred from lawsuits and made to pay restitution for the expenses incurred for the search and rescue.

 

This is ridiculous and has no basis in law whatsoever.