Another man overboard (Freedom of the Seas)

[Arizona Laura]

mheeren I agree with you. We all have done stupid things.

Don't think we really know the whole story or anything about this young man's life.

Sometimes I think there is underlying depression if drinking and intentional harmful acts. If unintentional still very sad. What concerns me is drinking with so many young people on antidepressants. They just don't realize the possible effects.

Whatever happened it is a life lossed too early.

The family is left behind to mourn and probably feeling somewhat guilty.

I do have concerns that it is well known now how easy it is to get rid of someone or commit suicide on a cruise ship.

[Inshape]

I really do think it is time now to put limits on those drinking. True that they are not driving but it is obvious that the problems occur when so over the top drunk. I think the cruise lines now must place restrictions or need to call a buddy when one is too drunk. Profits cannot always be placed first.

I followed this story about the 24 yr old man overboard and although hard to imagine how it can happen, even if drunk, a stupid tragic mistake with a real high price to pay.

[AmyGarner]

http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/288950518260481.php

I was looking for more information about this, and came across this article. Seemed relevent to what has been discussed in the thread so far.

[PhoenixCruiser]

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d76a4230030003&sectionId=60

 

This happened on an NCL ship.

 

Gosh, how sad!

 

###

[ShedQueen77]

How sad that the search has been called off. I hope that the family is able to find closure and peace.

 

PS- I'm still trying to understand the Pavlov reference. What does Pavlov's experiment have to do with this situation? :confused: A dog salivating and expecting food when it hears a certain sound and a man going overboard on a cruise ship...I don't see the similarity.

 

Yes, I have taken college level Psychology classes and am pretty familiar with Pavlov. Can someone please reassure me that I'm not losing my mind and give me the explanation?

[terri23]

http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/288950518260481.php

I was looking for more information about this, and came across this article. Seemed relevent to what has been discussed in the thread so far.

 

"people who feel victimized by cruise lines because of missing loved ones.." (emph added). I find this very frustrating and don't agree with this sentiment at all for these types of cases.

 

I also disagree with those who think the cruiseline should be responsible for monitoring alcohol intake. Not their job! Many people can be very drunk without obvious signs of distress (so who's responsible?). Most can have quite a few "par-tay" drinks on their hard-earned VACATION with no negative effect (cut those people off and they will kiss the cruise industry goodbye). Many can go to cozumel and drink tequila all day long and then come back onboard and ... pass out or get into trouble (how can the cruiseline be held accountable for the latter?). I am a responsible adult and don't expect to be "policed" on vacation because of incidents like this. Of course, if someone is visibly inebriated, they should be cut off. But there should be no other restrictive measures implemented by RC - they just aren't responsible (IMHO) for what I believe to be a shortage of passenger common sense.

 

I do, of course, agree these cases are tragic for all involved. Very sad.

[BecciBoo]

The similarity is in conditioning our young people to be more responsible at an earlier age by letting them suffer the consequences of their poor behavior instead of making excuses for it. There is a direct correlation to Pavlov's findings and the fact that we learn from experience. If you get burned by an iron, it is a much better deterent than just hearing you will get burned, and don't go saying I advocate the burning of children. That's obsurd. You people really do not get the message. It was specifically refering to drinking and its after affects, not falling off a balcony. It is cause and effect. If a person is a responsible drinker, he will not get so drunk that he falls off. And in any case, I was making a statement in reply to the "Should the cruise line take responsibility for everybodies misbehavior and penalize everyone with more rules because a few persons will not take responsibility for their own actions. We do not know if alcohol had a part in this particular incident yet. I was commenting on making more laws. We don't need more rules, we need more responsible persons. That is the only comment I was making. I have plenty of sympathy for the family of this person. I don't have sympathy for the laxity of parents these days.

[JsWife07]

I'm at work and don't have time to read all the posts, but have the found the guy who went overboard yet? If so, is he alive?

[nrdsb4]

mheeren I agree with you. We all have done stupid things.

Don't think we really know the whole story or anything about this young man's life.

Sometimes I think there is underlying depression if drinking and intentional harmful acts. If unintentional still very sad. What concerns me is drinking with so many young people on antidepressants. They just don't realize the possible effects.

Whatever happened it is a life lossed too early.

The family is left behind to mourn and probably feeling somewhat guilty.

I do have concerns that it is well known now how easy it is to get rid of someone or commit suicide on a cruise ship.

 

True, but it is easy to commit suicide anywhere. Walk in front of oncoming traffic, jump out of a hotel balcony, off a bridge, jump in front of the subway, etc., etc., etc. Where there's a will, there's a way. I remember sitting on my balcony once at about 3 a.m. It was so quiet, nothing but the sound of the ship cutting through the ocean. I thought, "Man, this could be the perfect murder...Oh, I don't know what happened to my wife...the last I saw her she was sitting out on the balcony drinking a glass of wine..." Creepy!

[Cruising89143]

True, but it is easy to commit suicide anywhere. Walk in front of oncoming traffic, jump out of a hotel balcony, off a bridge, jump in front of the subway, etc., etc., etc. Where there's a will, there's a way. I remember sitting on my balcony once at about 3 a.m. It was so quiet, nothing but the sound of the ship cutting through the ocean. I thought, "Man, this could be the perfect murder...Oh, I don't know what happened to my wife...the last I saw her she was sitting out on the balcony drinking a glass of wine..." Creepy!

 

 

If you get the chance, read the book Skinny Dip by Carl Hiaasen. It is just about that subject.

[Gonzo70]

I'm at work and don't have time to read all the posts, but have the found the guy who went overboard yet? If so, is he alive?

 

He was not found. Coast Guard has called of the search.

[sweet angel]

How sad that the search has been called off. I hope that the family is able to find closure and peace.

 

PS- I'm still trying to understand the Pavlov reference. What does Pavlov's experiment have to do with this situation? :confused: A dog salivating and expecting food when it hears a certain sound and a man going overboard on a cruise ship...I don't see the similarity.

 

Yes, I have taken college level Psychology classes and am pretty familiar with Pavlov. Can someone please reassure me that I'm not losing my mind and give me the explanation?

My guess would be that as the dogs salivate because they know food is near, so should people realize that if OTHERS were killed/lost at sea by going overboard, they probably will be as well.

[sweet angel]

"people who feel victimized by cruise lines because of missing loved ones.." (emph added). I find this very frustrating and don't agree with this sentiment at all for these types of cases.

 

I also disagree with those who think the cruiseline should be responsible for monitoring alcohol intake. Not their job! Many people can be very drunk without obvious signs of distress (so who's responsible?). Most can have quite a few "par-tay" drinks on their hard-earned VACATION with no negative effect (cut those people off and they will kiss the cruise industry goodbye). Many can go to cozumel and drink tequila all day long and then come back onboard and ... pass out or get into trouble (how can the cruiseline be held accountable for the latter?). I am a responsible adult and don't expect to be "policed" on vacation because of incidents like this. Of course, if someone is visibly inebriated, they should be cut off. But there should be no other restrictive measures implemented by RC - they just aren't responsible (IMHO) for what I believe to be a shortage of passenger common sense.

 

I do, of course, agree these cases are tragic for all involved. Very sad.

 

I agree with you. On my Explorer cruise in April, there were MANY teenagers drinking in Costa Maya and Cozumel -- being served by the bar staff ON LAND. How and why should the cruiseline be responsible for them, when their OWN PARENTS were nowhere to be seen? My son told me several stories about one boy in particular who was totally out of control.

[TRadle]

Becci, I would like you to elaborate on how we should condition young people about the affects of alcohol on their bodies using Pavlov’s theory. For that type of conditioning to take place we would have to get the kids drunk over and over again. For the best learning to take place this would need to be done before they are 21 years old so that when they are of legal drinking age in the US they will know their limitations while drunk.

I do understand the point about personal responsibility and learning from one’s mistakes. However, Pavlov’s conditioning is really not applicable to this situation.

[SherriZ366]

http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/288950518260481.php

I was looking for more information about this, and came across this article. Seemed relevent to what has been discussed in the thread so far.

This is the family that is suing because their son fell off the Mariner. In addtion to the video mentioned in the article where he falls over the ship, RCCL has video (taken by the young men) of he and his friends drinking the booze they smuggled onto the ship in mouthwash containers, etc.

[vickiw0318]

I am trying to imagine the uproar that would occur if sobriety tests were given to passengers returning from port with the end result being that the a cruiseline would confine anyone blowing over the legal limit in a specific location until they sobered up. (Couldn't just send them to their cabins and post guards because of the balconies. Anyway, where would they get the personnel?) The sad fact is that alcohol intake and responsible drinking don't always go hand in hand. Vacations are times can be times when a person who doesn't usually drink a lot can go on a binge. Those who qualify for membership in the Friends of Bill W., but haven't "joined" yet, can also be a problem.

 

I am one of the 90% that is very blessed that some of the stupid things I did did not have more serious results. However, it they had, it would have been my fault for making the choice - not someone else's for not watching me.

 

I am so sad for the family of this young person and for the friends that left him asleep on his balcony. They probably thought he was okay and was just sleeping it off (if alcohol was indeed involved). They must feel absolutely awful.

[Catnip]

He was not found. Coast Guard has called of the search.

 

 

HOLY COW!!!!!!!! I just read my local newspaper and this guy is from here! :eek: Right here where I live! I know the company they worked for........

 

http://www.newsargus.com/news/archives/2007/06/20/search_called_off_for_missing_man/index.shtml

[hollaatya35]

I just read that a young man (24yrs old) was missing from the royal caribbean cruise ship bound for Puerto Rico, the search was called off by the Coast Guard. You may read the story on www.newsargus.com

He was from goldsboro,nc

[Sunsets4Me]

My husband sent me an email with this info today while I was at work. We were on the FOS last week (6/10-6/17) with our 2 young sons. This was our first cruise and we intentionally booked an inside stateroom with no balcony since our 5 year old is pretty unpredictable.

 

How terribly sobering it is to hear of this happening one day after we got off the ship! Wow! Seems unreal and I feel so saddened for this young man's family.

[Arizona Laura]

True, but it is easy to commit suicide anywhere. Walk in front of oncoming traffic, jump out of a hotel balcony, off a bridge, jump in front of the subway, etc., etc., etc. Where there's a will, there's a way. I remember sitting on my balcony once at about 3 a.m. It was so quiet, nothing but the sound of the ship cutting through the ocean. I thought, "Man, this could be the perfect murder...Oh, I don't know what happened to my wife...the last I saw her she was sitting out on the balcony drinking a glass of wine..." Creepy!

 

I think there definately is an association with cruise ships and intentional jumping during disputes of couples that are under the influence of heavy alcohol and probably in unhealthy (possibly abusive -controlling) relationships to begin with. Spending days on end together with drinking, maybe lack of sleep, underlying depression could also be factors.

 

I don't think there would be much going on a cruise to intentionally end your life because that certainly would be associated with a lengthy planning stage.

 

I had the same feeling on the balcony of the ship at night on my cruise how easy it would be to kill someone. Make sure they are seen drinking heavily and intoxicated and supposedly you leave them alone and they are all of a sudden missing the next morning.

 

I do think all public areas of the ship should be under surveillance. It may get to the point where ships to protect themselves from lawsuits have all balcony areas as well monitored. You may not have an occurrence visualized live but you would on tape. Passengers would just know that they are not being intentionally watched on their balconies but if there was an incident your actions on the balcony would be available for review.

 

I do have a concern about families of those that go overboard holding the cruise line so heavily responsible for the actions of that passenger. The cruise lines are the most responsible for quick reporting of an incident, taking all immediate actions to help locate that overboard passenger, and protecting the possible scene for investigation.

 

There is, as been said here, a personal responsibilty for all our actions including the amount of ETOH we consume.

[nrdsb4]

I do think all public areas of the ship should be under surveillance. It may get to the point where ships to protect themselves from lawsuits have all balcony areas as well monitored. You may not have an occurrence visualized live but you would on tape. Passengers would just know that they are not being intentionally watched on their balconies but if there was an incident your actions on the balcony would be available for review.

 

 

That would sure put a damper on all those "Do you ever have nookie on your balcony?" threads!:eek:

 

I have to say that if ever we get to the point that our balconies are being monitored, that's probably when I'll stop cruising. What a shame it is that cruiselines would even have to consider it. I keep reading posts that suggest the cruiselines should be responsible for protecting us from ourselves. I see many of the same sentiments expressed about our government. I really think we need to reclaim personal responsibility for ourselves. Otherwise, we run the risk of creating a society of perpetual children. Not for me.

[psychboss]

Okay guys :( . Please stop trying to beat eachother up and lets just pray for this guy and his family. My fiance and I made a special effort to see how someone could just fall or slip over the railing' date=' its seemingly impossible. You'd have to be impaired in some way or it isn't an accident. :confused: I really hope that they find him alive.[/b']

 

 

Being 'in the business' I once attended a session where there was a discussion about all the bad press that the poor cruise lines get because the Media makes the most out of the "Person Overboard From Cruise Ship"! OK - What is the common thread??? Anyone? Anyone?

YOU Got IT!! Alcohol!!! Bingo! If you don't drink more than you can handle, and you don't get stupid, YOU will have a wonderful cruise! You will love it and I will bet you will cruise again!

 

It is NOT fair to blame any particular cruise line because an individual drinks too much and does something stupid. You don't blame Ford, or Honda or Toyota when a drunk driver kills someone do you?

[RAJay]

Hey Critics,

 

My wife and I are on the Freedom of the Seas right now... actually on our Honeymoon. We were playing Bingo on Deck 5 around 10 am and they paged this guy like 50 times... It seemed like every 4-5 minutes. Around noon (or so) the captain announced that there was a man missing and that the ship had turned around to return to the point where the ship was when the man was last seen. They had his name and pictured plastered on every TV screen on the ship, and constantly (still) on channel 10 of RCTV. Everyone on the ship was talking about what to do and different scenarios etc... Orginally they cancelled San Juan and said we were going to St. Maarten & Thomas. But later when the ship finally stopped retracing its path and continued on the voyage they said we were cancelling St. Thomas and going to San Juan first. Talk on the ship was that we were going to San Juan because it is a U.S controlled territory so they would have control over everyone as they left the ship for port. At port the Coast Guard boarded the ship and escorted us to the pier, then FBI (about 20 people) boarded the ship. They had an evidence response team and dog etc... It's a crazy thing to be witness to.

 

Luckily everyone on board has been pretty understanding and we hope this guy is found safe.

 

At 50 cents a minute I think this post has been worth it... but I probably won't be on again till I get back from the cruise.

 

Crazy First Cruise!!!! Crazy Honeymoon Cruise!!!!

 

-Jason & his now wife, Megan

 

P.S. They gave everyone onboard a $200 ship credit.

[Sea Island Lady]

Thanks for the update and congratulations!

 

This article proves that it (stupid stunts or accidents) doesn't just happen on cruise ships.

 

"Clothing was discovered on the roof, leading authorities to suspect the man and woman, in their early 20s, may have been having sex. Their identities were not released."

http://www.thestate.com/136/story/97081.html

 

Please, no jokes! This is very sad. :(

[Sylvia and Rich]

:( How Sad....