Another man overboard (Freedom of the Seas)

[Jeanie821]

No matter what the cause of the fall overboard, what a tragedy for the man's family. My prayers are with them.

[BecciBoo]

just gotta say it:

Thomas Payne once said, "That government which governs least, governs best." His comment on too many rules. If we don't start allowing people to suffer the consequences of their behaviour, the state of our society will never recover from too much governing. We have grown to be a completely irresponsible society because we aren't made responsible. People don't need more protecting from RCI about drinking too much or acting too silly, they just need to suffer the consequences and grow up. Didn't anybody ever take beginning psych? Pavlovian behaviour training works best. Once burned, twice shy. That's how humans learn...by doing the wrong thing. If we don't allow them to do the wrong thing, they will repeat it.

[Merion_Mom]

Latest from RCL as of 11 a.m.

 

The Freedom of the Seas has retraced it's path twice now -- they (the FOS) will sail a revised itinerary for the remainder of its sailing, which includes port calls in Puerto Rico and St. Maarten, both part of the original itinerary.

 

No other specifics were given -- the Coast Guard will continue it's search by air at this point due to the large search area.

 

Would you mind telling us what you do at your news station?

[TRadle]

just gotta say it:

 

Thomas Payne once said, "That government which governs least, governs best." His comment on too many rules. If we don't start allowing people to suffer the consequences of their behaviour, the state of our society will never recover from too much governing. We have grown to be a completely irresponsible society because we aren't made responsible. People don't need more protecting from RCI about drinking too much or acting too silly, they just need to suffer the consequences and grow up. Didn't anybody ever take beginning psych? Pavlovian behaviour training works best. Once burned, twice shy. That's how humans learn...by doing the wrong thing. If we don't allow them to do the wrong thing, they will repeat it.

 

 

However, it is very sad when someone loses their life while learning these life lessons.

[HB Cruiser]

Our sympathies go out to the family of this individual. They also go out to the crew in the Bridge that have been frantically looking for this person the last several hours. Can only imagine what is going through their minds right now and how defeated they must feel. Just think about it, they have been searching for several hours with their concentration level on you cannot believe how high, and then to think they must go on and make the remaining passengers happy.

 

Tim & Crystal

[BecciBoo]

However, it is very sad when someone loses their life while learning these life lessons.

 

Don't mean to sound insensitive, but if they had learned at a young age, probably would not be learning such a hard lesson. As my mom used to tell me. Would you rather deal with me or with God? I picked her:o

[TRadle]

Don't mean to sound insensitive, but if they had learned at a young age, probably would not be learning such a hard lesson. As my mom used to tell me. Would you rather deal with me or with God? I picked her:o

 

 

I always wonder about lessons with alcohol consumption and youth. I’m sailing with 6 people in their 20’s and emailed all of them the article posted in this thread. Added some serious humor and told them it had best not be them…..or else.

They are young and immortal…..or so they think. :(

[Cruisin Kay D]

Am very surprised the Freedom has spent 2 whole days there searching!!!

 

Back in January of 2000 when we were on old Crown Prin, a crew member jumped overboard one morning about 9:15 AM from an upper deck & was witnessed by passengers -- the ship almost immediately turned around & returned to area and searched the area all day (we were south of Grand Cayman heading to Costa Rica) but by dusk the ship's captain reported that the search was ended and ship would continue on it's way.

 

Next thing someone will blame the balconies & they will put cages around the balconies or do away with balconies or some fool idea.

 

It's hard to believe one can be so drunk they can do something so permanently stupid as to stand/sit on railings.

 

I sure hope the cruise line fines/charges those people that "fell" and were rescued alive!! Dead is a problem because then it's the families who have enough to deal with.....

[Trainman-2]

It is unfortunate, but drunks do dumb things. Consider the number killed while driving drunk.

 

I would expect the cruise lines to put stickers up on the balcony railings with messages such as "Do Not Lean Over Railing" or "Do not Climb On Railing." Some smart lawyer, sooner or later, will get them because they didn't warn the passengers.

 

When I think back and ponder on the things I did when I was young and smarter than my parents, I consider myself lucky to be alive.

[Shanafan]

No matter what the cause of the fall overboard, what a tragedy for the man's family. My prayers are with them.

Well put. People seem to forget that whether it was a stupid drunken accident or a suicide there are loved ones left to deal with the pain of losing a loved one. I know first hand. My brother took his life 7 months ago. We still do not have the autopsy report back and although I know it really doesn't matter what he had in his system at the time he did such a stupid, selfish act, it is a piece of the puzzle and hopefully will help in our healing process.

 

All too often people are too worried about missing a port or being put out in some way. Is it any different if someone has a heart attack and you have to turn around to go to an island with better medical facilities? That happened on one of our cruises and it certainly did not wreck my vacation because we only had a couple hours in Jamaica. I am just grateful that we have never had an emergency situation in our family that would require the ship to turn around. Sometimes we need to stop and be grateful for what we have and consider the hurt and pain others are going through......like the family of this boy.

[BunkerVA]

I always wonder about lessons with alcohol consumption and youth. I’m sailing with 6 people in their 20’s and emailed all of them the article posted in this thread. Added some serious humor and told them it had best not be them…..or else.

They are young and immortal…..or so they think. :(

 

Not all 20-somethings think they are immortal and not all of us get so inebriated we think its fun to climb the ship. This is more about personal responsibility then age.

[paggerscorvette]

Sometimes we need to stop and be grateful for what we have and consider the hurt and pain others are going through......like the family of this boy.

Very well put. We also loved a loss one to suicide, my heart and best wishes go to you and your family, also to the family of the man on RCCL.

[BunkerVA]

Well put. People seem to forget that whether it was a stupid drunken accident or a suicide there are loved ones left to deal with the pain of losing a loved one. I know first hand. My brother took his life 7 months ago. We still do not have the autopsy report back and although I know it really doesn't matter what he had in his system at the time he did such a stupid, selfish act, it is a piece of the puzzle and hopefully will help in our healing process.

 

All too often people are too worried about missing a port or being put out in some way. Is it any different if someone has a heart attack and you have to turn around to go to an island with better medical facilities? That happened on one of our cruises and it certainly did not wreck my vacation because we only had a couple hours in Jamaica. I am just grateful that we have never had an emergency situation in our family that would require the ship to turn around. Sometimes we need to stop and be grateful for what we have and consider the hurt and pain others are going through......like the family of this boy.

 

 

Shanafan- As someone who has seen firsthand the pain a suicide inflicts on families, you have my deepest sympathies.

 

We, too, have been on a cruise where we have had to stop for a medical emergency. We watched as a poor woman who had fallen and injured herself badly, than off of the ship and loaded onto a pilot boat off the coast of the Dominican Republic without her family. They were able to disembark at the next port of call. I cannot imagine how scary that must have been for her or the pain her family must have felt watching their daughter float away to be med-evac'd to Miami. Never once did it cross the minds of anyone we spoke to that our delayed arrival in the next port of call ruined our vacation. We were just thankful for our health and the wellness of our families.

 

This is a tragedy. Should people learn a lesson from it, I certainly hope so. Being on vacation does not mean losing control.

[flagger]

They shouldn't look for the victim?!?

Not at the expense of the vacations of all of the others. I have been touched by suicide and my life had to go on despite her SELFISH act. This is not like someone getting hurt or having an emergency through no fault of their own.

 

Rare is the incident where someone accidentally fell over. Usually they were doing something stupid or wanted to end their life. Jumping off a bridge usually affects 1,000s as well trying to get to work or home because they shut off the freeway. I am numb to it and while I have empathy for the feelings I have no sympathy for the SELFISH people who choose that path and affect so many others.

[TRadle]

Not all 20-somethings think they are immortal and not all of us get so inebriated we think its fun to climb the ship. This is more about personal responsibility then age.

 

 

Did I say “all”….no I didn’t.

I am the mother of 3 children in their 20’s and they all have SO’s. Not one of them is a fall down drunk, nor for that matter have I ever seen them drunk. We lost a member of our family to a drunk driver and I know for a fact that my kids NEVER drink and drive.

Do they worry about dying….no. They are young and have their entire lives in front of them. I’m their mother. Do I worry that they will make one small error in judgment and get hurt. Yes, I have had that worry since the second they were born.

Do you have kids?

[ShedQueen77]

Just a pondering and opinion...No, I abolutely agree that the publicity isn't good for the cruise lines. I wish, however, there were more reporting about the circumstances around the disappearance of cruise ship passengers. Drinking, suicide, stupid accidents...

 

Can you imagine the uproar if a cruise line were to impliment a limitation on how many drinks you are allowed to have in a given period? I'm not thinking it would go over all that well. Not to mention it would cut into their profit margins. When people on cruisecritic talk about their bar tabs for a cruise being in the $500-$1000 range, I imagine dollar signs light up in the eyes of stockholders!!!!

 

How about personal responsibility?? How about saying I've had too much? Perhaps the cruise line should impliment a designated sober drinking buddy whose responsibilities include babysitting intoxicated adults and keeping them from climbing the railings.

 

I am so sorry. None of this is meant to be angry, but what should the cruise lines do to save people from themselves? And why should they have to do it?

 

I truly hope this poor young man's family is able to find peace. (I'm gonna be a naysayer and think there's no way they will recover him alive...)

 

Sam

 

PS- Lora: I hope your Carnival wedding goes way better than ours did!!! Congratulations!!!!

 

I agree with you 100%! Unfortunately, the cruise lines probably WILL have to do something just to 'save face', so to speak. Should they have to? Absolutely not. People *should* just be more responsible and behave like adults.

 

PS-- Thanks! We're doing our wedding on a Carnival cruise, but on the island (Barbados) through a coordinator on the island. Tried talking to Carnival's wedding department twice. Just from two times, I knew there was no way I was letting them get near my wedding! :) They use the same sub-contracted company RC does.

[BunkerVA]

Did I say “all”….no I didn’t.

I am the mother of 3 children in their 20’s and they all have SO’s. Not one of them is a fall down drunk, nor for that matter have I ever seen them drunk. We lost a member of our family to a drunk driver and I know for a fact that my kids NEVER drink and drive.

Do they worry about dying….no. They are young and have their entire lives in front of them. I’m their mother. Do I worry that they will make one small error in judgment and get hurt. Yes, I have had that worry since the second they were born.

Do you have kids?

 

What you said was that you worried about the lessons of alcohol and youth. Not all drunks are young. Did you email all the people you are sailing with the article or just those in their 20's? My read on your post was that you look on 20-somethings as more likely to be irresponsible, including your children. (since you "warned" them)

 

No, I don't have kids, but I am 26 and I *do* worry about dying. I know my whole life is in front of me and I'd like to be here for it. I have a 32 year old DH who feels the same. It's about maturity and responsibility. Not about age.

[cruisin from florida]

Here are the results of a poll I posted a long time ago...

 

Have you ever made a stupid choice that could have led to harm to yourself or others?

Yes, and I have the hospital bills/scars to show for it. 12 9.76%

Yes, but I got lucky. 111 90.24%

 

(note - "no, never" was supposed to have been one of the response options, but I messed up in posting the poll)

 

 

SADLY, here is the exact text of the post that went along with the poll....

 

I don't have the heart to judge the young man who went overboard. I am a 45 year-old responsible parent and adult, and yet, when I look back at my late teens and early 20's, I can think of multiple "guardian angel on hazard pay" moments.

 

If you never got into a vehicle with someone who had had a few too many, or got behind the wheel when you had; if you never went somewhere with someone you didn't know well enough; if you never did something that in the light of later years makes you shake your head in gratitude that nothing bad happened, good for you.

 

On the other hand, if you get the there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I feeling when you read some of these stories, please join me in sympathetic thoughts for the family and hopes that our own kids make it through unscathed, as we did.

[BunkerVA]

SIZE]

I am the mother of 3 children in their 20’s and they all have SO’s. Not one of them is a fall down drunk, nor for that matter have I ever seen them drunk.

 

 

Does that mean they never have been? No.. Not all of us like to get drunk in front of our parents.

[BunkerVA]

I agree with you 100%! Unfortunately, the cruise lines probably WILL have to do something just to 'save face', so to speak. Should they have to? Absolutely not. People *should* just be more responsible and behave like adults.

 

PS-- Thanks! We're doing our wedding on a Carnival cruise, but on the island (Barbados) through a coordinator on the island. Tried talking to Carnival's wedding department twice. Just from two times, I knew there was no way I was letting them get near my wedding! :) They use the same sub-contracted company RC does.

 

The company we were married through was A Wedding for You, out of Florida...it wasn't pretty...in fact, it was three days late! I am blissfully happy with my husband...not so much with Carnival and A Wedding for You. :)

 

I wish you many, many, many happy years!!!

Sam :D

[TRadle]

What you said was that you worried about the lessons of alcohol and youth. Not all drunks are young. Did you email all the people you are sailing with the article or just those in their 20's? My read on your post was that you look on 20-somethings as more likely to be irresponsible, including your children. (since you "warned" them)

 

No, I don't have kids, but I am 26 and I *do* worry about dying. I know my whole life is in front of me and I'd like to be here for it. I have a 32 year old DH who feels the same. It's about maturity and responsibility. Not about age.

 

 

I responded to a post about youth and experience so it is a valid response. The post was about lake of experience and not irresponsibility.

And for all we know the young man who went overboard may not have done anything irresponsible; that is an assumption. One of the young men traveling with us is very tall so I tease him about not bending over the side.

As for my email, I emailed those that I parent. And yes, I do some parenting to the SO’s.

[logan1_2000]

My thoughts exactly! While I'm reading everyones varying responses/thoughts to the OP I'm just sitting here thinking "How the

#$%! do you fall overboard?!?!" I've never found it to be difficult to stay on the insides of the railings. Hmmmm.

 

Ditto.

[xpcdoojk]

just gotta say it:

 

Thomas Payne once said, "That government which governs least, governs best." His comment on too many rules. If we don't start allowing people to suffer the consequences of their behaviour, the state of our society will never recover from too much governing. We have grown to be a completely irresponsible society because we aren't made responsible. People don't need more protecting from RCI about drinking too much or acting too silly, they just need to suffer the consequences and grow up. Didn't anybody ever take beginning psych? Pavlovian behaviour training works best. Once burned, twice shy. That's how humans learn...by doing the wrong thing. If we don't allow them to do the wrong thing, they will repeat it.

 

Hallelujah and amen, sistah!:D

 

jc

[threeofus]

Here are the results of a poll I posted a long time ago...

 

Have you ever made a stupid choice that could have led to harm to yourself or others?

Yes, and I have the hospital bills/scars to show for it. 12 9.76%

Yes, but I got lucky. 111 90.24%

 

(note - "no, never" was supposed to have been one of the response options, but I messed up in posting the poll)

 

 

SADLY, here is the exact text of the post that went along with the poll....

 

I don't have the heart to judge the young man who went overboard. I am a 45 year-old responsible parent and adult, and yet, when I look back at my late teens and early 20's, I can think of multiple "guardian angel on hazard pay" moments.

 

If you never got into a vehicle with someone who had had a few too many, or got behind the wheel when you had; if you never went somewhere with someone you didn't know well enough; if you never did something that in the light of later years makes you shake your head in gratitude that nothing bad happened, good for you.

 

On the other hand, if you get the there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I feeling when you read some of these stories, please join me in sympathetic thoughts for the family and hopes that our own kids make it through unscathed, as we did.

 

 

 

Yes yes yes...I could not agree more. We have all made mistakes that could have been life changing but for we were spared....

Since we were, we have an obligation to be empathic and caring.

[scejas]

The 24-year-old man has been identified -- the family has request their identity not be published....

 

They are from Raleigh, N.C. and the 24-yr-old is the oldest of 3 kids cruising with their family.

 

The Coast Guard continues to search -- meanwhile the FOS has dropped the port of St. Thomas from it's voyage and has reschedule San Juan for Wednesday and then will stop in St. Marteen before returning to Miami.