Comair Snafu-Big Trouble for Cruisers

[iowacruiser]

This morning on Fox News they had a report on the Comair computer crash that forced the airline to cancel all 1100 flights yesterday. Only a small percentage of the flightsd were back on today.

They did an interview with a woman who was suppose to board a cruise ship in FLL today but couldn't there.. Her flight was cancelled and because it's XMAS, all other flights to sout6h Florida were booked solid.

Needless to say she was a bit ****** off

[HeatherInFlorida]

That's a big time:eek: !!!!! if ever there was one. Who to blame? What do you do besides cry a lot? I watched the same news report and all I could think of was all the folks trying to get home from their Holiday celebrations. Hadn't even thought about cruise passengers.

 

So this is one of those times where we would have been better off booking air through the cruiseline. Everyone's always saying it's better the other way around, but this is one of those times it works the other way.

 

What a sad mess.

[Krazy Kruizers]

And that isn't the only problem.

It all started with a HUGE snow storm in Cincinnati. Many flights were cancelled. Then Delta ran out of de-icing agent. In the mean-time all those cancellations caused cancellations and missed flights in amny other cities. Philadelphia had trouble with US Airways - thousands of pieces of luggage went astray - also happened in Pittsburgh.

It has been reported that some people won't have their luggage for at least 3 - 4 days - maybe longer. Most of it is being put on planes to be sent to Atlanta to begin re-routing - a couple of the planes removed the seats inorder to fill the planes with as much luggage as possible.

It would not have made any difference whether you booked your own air or went with the cruise lines - many of the cruise lines now go with Comair and other short-hop flights to save money. It has been diaster up here for everyone.

[TedC]

I feel the best advice is to always get to the cruise port at least a day or two early. And that's for domestic ports. In Europe and Asia I would want to be there at least three days early to allow for any eventuality, and to enjoy the port city.

 

Even with cruise air, if the remaining flights are full you won't be on them. (They don't allow you to sit on the wings anymore.)

 

Just saw a local couple on TV who were stranded and missed their Star Princess cruise. Apparently they had no insurance because the woman said they were out $7000.

 

 

Things don't always go smoothly on land or sea - so play safe and get there early.

[sail7seas]

Maybe I am stupid, but I am having a hard time figuring out why a long time, experienced airline would not have pre-ordered and had on hand for the long winter, enough de-icing material to handle the need. This is the very start of winter and Delta ran out of de-ice? I read the reports of highway closures and trucks not allowed to bring it to the airport. Why wasn't it already on hand? Sure....maybe not enough for the entire winter but this was the first real storm. Should have been enough for at least one day's use I would think????

 

 

There are also many reports of an inordinate number of flight attendants and baggage handlers who all called in sick the day before Christmas. Must be something very contagious going around among airline employees.

[HeatherInFlorida]

......

It would not have made any difference whether you booked your own air or went with the cruise lines - many of the cruise lines now go with Comair and other short-hop flights to save money. It has been diaster up here for everyone.

It would have made a difference in that if you booked through the cruiseline it becomes their responsibility. If you book air on your own, missing the cruise becomes your responsibility. That is all I meant.

 

And, unfortunately, not everyone has the luxury of time to be at ports 2, 3 or 4 days early.

[Grumpy1]

I think the answer is logistics and managing the bottom line. They amount that can be stored onsite is limited. This early in the season, they may not have had a full supply, based on historical usage and a reluctance to tie up funds. When the storm hit and flights started being delayed, it compounded the problem since a plane must take off within a specific period of time after deicing or go through the process again. Result, more material used for fewer planes.

 

As to the labor problems, it's not surprising since there is a lot of bad blood between useless air and their unions right now. I'll bet if their contracts had a provision that employees would not be paid for the holiday if they did not work their scheduled day before and after the holiday, there would be a lot less absentee problems.

 

Grumpy

[Pudgesmom]

In most airports, the deicing is handled by the airport authority. Of course, they too, should be aware of snowfall amounts for their area. We can't blame the airlines for everything.

 

I think the missing employees are a combination of winter illness (remember, they're in those germ-filled tubes all day long), unreported job actions, and just plain selfish employees who won't wait their turn for major holidays off.

 

Beth

P.S. I've been married to a pilot for 24 years, 17 at a major airline, and he just got Christmas afternoon off!:rolleyes:

[Dolphins]

The recent holiday airline chaos prompts me to express my gratitude to NCL for taking the gamble of inaugurating year-round cruises out of New York. It has proven so popular with passengers who loathe flying that HAL will also have their new Noordam sailing winter cruises out of New York. From now on, all my future cruises will be round-trip out of New York. You can use the money you save on flights to upgrade your cruise.

[sail7seas]

We do not live in New York but still are considering sailing Noordam from there. It is a minimum of 4+ hours from Boston to New York by any form of transportation. (A flight is only 35 minutes but we all know how they can turn a quick hop into a half day odyssey. )

 

 

While it is a far shorter distance than going to FLL, it is not necessarily much less expensive. The shuttle is costly. Amtrak is more economical but questionable as to convenience. We'll have to research.

[iluvcruzin]

Maybe I am stupid, but I am having a hard time figuring out why a long time, experienced airline would not have pre-ordered and had on hand for the long winter, enough de-icing material to handle the need. This is the very start of winter and Delta ran out of de-ice? I read the reports of highway closures and trucks not allowed to bring it to the airport. Why wasn't it already on hand? Sure....maybe not enough for the entire winter but this was the first real storm. Should have been enough for at least one day's use I would think????

OK.. I guess the best thing to start with is to explain.. Where is in the world is Cincinnati?:confused:

 

Geographically we are located where Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana meet. Actually the Airport is in rural Northern Kentucky. Snow at this time of the year is RARE. Receiving up to 20 inches in less than a 24 hr time frame along with a few inches of ice isn't the norm either. In an area where a snow plow is not worth investment, when a major snow storm hits.. it can cause major problems. Some years we get no snow. On the average though.. we don’t see snow until the end of January or February and it's just a few inches.

 

For the de-icer issue. The airlines went through a normal 2 to 3-week supply of de-icer in a 24 hr period. I imagine this was due to the heavy holiday travel and the Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky airport is a major hub for connecting flights. There were 13 tankers with de-icer on the road that were stuck on the interstate. Now.. to give a visualization of the area of Kentucky and Indiana, you are talking RURAL (farms). In both KY & IN these are areas where there isn’t a big department of highway transportation to clear the highways. It’s not unusual for the highways to shut down between Cincinnati and Louisville or Cincinnati and Indianapolis. Some areas are flat for travel, others are hilly which can cause difficult if not impossible travel in areas.

 

There were many people in the tri-state area that were out of electricity. There are still around 5400 homes that have been without electricity since Wednesday. This shows you the impact of this storm. We had a level 3 emergency in which no one was allowed on the roads on Thursday. It took a couple hrs and 5 people to dig out my driveway as we had 20 inches.

 

For the issues with Comair and the computer problems, here’s the article in our local paper http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041226/BIZ01/412260340. It was the 3rd thing to happen at the airport this holiday season. There was also an evacuation due to some pipes bursting. I’m sure it will be a holiday season that soon won’t be forgotten at the airport.

 

They were showing all the luggage backed up on the news tonight. I imagine that will take a few days to get straightened out. They said that many Delta employees were working 20 hr shifts trying to get everything caught up before Wednesday which is the next major travel day. Hopefully there won’t be issues then.

 

Just to give you an idea of upcoming temps, this may help understand why having lots of snow and low temps is unusual. Mon - 30/14, Tue 40/34, Wed, 43/35, Thurs 55/49, Fri 59/51, Sat 60/46.

 

I booked my son and his new bride on flights out of Louisville KY which is 90 miles away. As a smaller airport, they didn’t have the delays and issues as in CVG. Being they were flying on Christmas eve, I figured they would have a better chance of making it home without delays. I was right as it was on time. They did say however that they couldn’t count the amount of cars along the highway that were abandoned. They were quite shocked on what they found upon arriving home.

 

As far as it's better to book air through the cruiseline. That's not necessarily true. They only have an obligation to get you to the next port of call if it's delayed - not reimbursement for unforseen events like weather. It's a false sense of security to purchase air though the cruiseline for such reasons. The best thing to do is get travel insurance for total reimbursement. It doesn't hurt to add the $9.00 flight delay insurance offered through American express when purchasing airline tickets. It provides hotel accomidations and other benefits like meal reimbursement for situations like this. The airlines are only obligated to get you to the next destination - but not by a certain date. This is why they don't cover overnight stay for weather related delays.

 

Sorry for the long post.. I just wanted to provide some FYI to give an understanding to those who live in northern parts of the country and may not realize or understand where we are actually located. (S7S.. I’ve been in Boston in the winter and it’s much colder and snowier than here so I understand your confusion).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kryos]

It would have made a difference in that if you booked through the cruiseline it becomes their responsibility. If you book air on your own, missing the cruise becomes your responsibility. That is all I meant.

 

And, unfortunately, not everyone has the luxury of time to be at ports 2, 3 or 4 days early.

I'm sure there will be a lot of law suits from people seeking compensation for those missed cruises. Of course, generally it's almost impossible to win a suit like that and if you're lucky, you might get a couple of vouchers for free flights from the airline.

 

But since there are so many people affected by the Conair snafu, perhaps any affected cruise passengers who blew their cruises because of this might be able to band together and get a class action suit going. They might be able to recover at least some of their lost money that way.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Philip217]

You should never never ever ever even consider taking a cruise on a big family holiday.

These airline problems are just a very small part of the endless hassles you are nearly sure to encounter if you try to cruise with all of humanity at Christmas.

Dont do it !!

 

Let the nimrods go through all the hassles at Thanksgiving, Hannukah, Christmas, and Easter. You should choose any other time and you will probably return home refreshed and happy - instead of planning lawsuits.

[sail7seas]

Maureen.......

 

Thanks for your excellent explanation.

 

Being from Boston, I do shake my head a bit but after your post I have a fuller picture.

 

We had 12" of snow yesterday/last night and by 5:00 A.M., my snow plow guy had my driveway clear; the roads are all plowed and sanded and it is 'almost' business as usual in most areas. There may be some spots where it will take longer but, for the most part, unless idiots left their vehicles illegally parked which blocked access to snow plows, the streets will be usable.

 

Logan Airport did have 'snow/wind problems' but most of the headaches there resulted from the system collapsing elsewhere.

[DFD1]

I think Phillip 217 has a good point. We try never to schedule a cruise over a major holiday unless we can drive to the port. Even then we try to allow extra time in case of highway "tie ups".

 

I recognize that many people have no choice except to cruise over the holiday because of limited vacation time and my heart goes out to them when things to go hell in a handbasket on such a large scale the way they did this time.

 

For me the worst thing in all of this was the employees of US Air who failed to report to work just for spite or out of selfishness. That was mean and it hurt thousands of innocent people during what was supposed to be a time of goodwill. Too bad.

[HeatherInFlorida]

We just heard on the news that people were stranded at LaGuardia (NY) for 4 days!!! So these 2 messes with Comair and USAir had far reaching effects. There are thousands of pieces of luggage everywhere and no one seems to know how to find anything.

 

But the truth is that the Comair mess is a glitch that could happen at any time ... holiday or no ... had nothing to do with weather. So there is no "safe" time when it comes to flying.

[peaches from georgia]

.... So there is no "safe" time when it comes to flying.

Which is exactly why we drive. You'd have to be crazy to consider flying if the drive was only one day or less.

[sail7seas]

Which is exactly why we drive. You'd have to be crazy to consider flying if the drive was only one day or less.

It's a toss up for us....which do we hate more??? Flying is disgusting; driving is also IMO

 

We hate airports. We HATE car trips.

 

However, I do not consider us crazy. Four to five hour car trip is my max.

[1cruiselvr]

Driving is not the perfect answer either. Bad weather can affect that plan of action as well. We learned NOT to cruise over the holidays in 1998 when it was ruined by several things. It didn't help that we paid 2x the price for the vacation since CLs hike the prices for holiday cruises. NEVER AGAIN we vowed and so far we have stuck with it. Happy Sailing!

[peaches from georgia]

Driving is not the perfect answer either. Bad weather can affect that plan of action as well.

I agree, there is no perfect answer. But with driving you are in control of your own situation more than with any other form of travel. You can now find quite accurate weather forecasts up to at least 10 days in the future for your route and can alter your travel plans accordingly. That is usually not possible with flight tkts and you are stuck traveling (or not) on a day of bad weather even if you knew it beforehand. You're stuck with somebody else's schedule, not with what works best for you as conditions change. I would rather have our luggage with us and leave home at our convenience before bad weather hits than sit in an airport snowbound and miss my cruise.

[the2ofus]

Maureen,

That was a really great and well detailed description of the climate and terrain at the Cincinnati airport. I used to live in a hilly, rural (more cows than people) county of New York state, south-west of Rochester. We used to get lots of snow and our towns and county had great snow removal equipment (think BIG plows and huge truck-mounted snowblowers) that kept us moving most days of the winter.

 

When I moved to Cincinnati in 1981, I loved the milder winters, but was amazed at how a 2 or 3 inch snowfall could bring that city to a halt. There were fewer snowplows and salt trucks for the whole area than for my little rural NY home county. They simply don't need to invest in such equipment because these big storms happen so seldom and usually the snow is gone in a couple of days. Every ten years or so a weather system like the current one happens and reminds us all how lucky we are, and how fickle and powerful Mother Nature can be.

 

BTW, my grandkids are having the time of their lives with their Christmas sleds this year! Its a rare and wonderful experience for them.

[Giorgi-one]

It would have made a difference in that if you booked through the cruiseline it becomes their responsibility. If you book air on your own, missing the cruise becomes your responsibility. That is all I meant.

 

And, unfortunately, not everyone has the luxury of time to be at ports 2, 3 or 4 days early.

 

We had a problem once with lost luggage on a flight booked thru the cruise line. When I arrived at the ship, I was told that the cruise line is not responsible for my luggage and that they only book the flights as a service to their passengers. If I did not chose to sail, I would not receive a refund. Does the cruise line really accept responsibility for late or cancelled flights?

[Opinions]

It would have made a difference in that if you booked through the cruiseline it becomes their responsibility. /QUOTE]

 

If you check your cruise contract you will see that cruise lines do not accept "responsibility" even if they book the airline...They may help, but "responsibility", no way.

[lipoppop]

Maureen.......

 

Thanks for your excellent explanation.

 

Being from Boston, I do shake my head a bit but after your post I have a fuller picture.

 

We had 12" of snow yesterday/last night and by 5:00 A.M., my snow plow guy had my driveway clear; the roads are all plowed and sanded and it is 'almost' business as usual in most areas. There may be some spots where it will take longer but, for the most part, unless idiots left their vehicles illegally parked which blocked access to snow plows, the streets will be usable.

 

Logan Airport did have 'snow/wind problems' but most of the headaches there resulted from the system collapsing elsewhere.

 

Sail, Logan only had one runway open. The NE Patriots had to take a bus home after beating the Jet's (don't hate them like I hate the Yankess) because Logan was restricting flights in.

[Tatka]

Maureen.......

 

Thanks for your excellent explanation.

 

Being from Boston, I do shake my head a bit but after your post I have a fuller picture.

 

We had 12" of snow yesterday/last night and by 5:00 A.M., my snow plow guy had my driveway clear; the roads are all plowed and sanded and it is 'almost' business as usual in most areas. There may be some spots where it will take longer but, for the most part, unless idiots left their vehicles illegally parked which blocked access to snow plows, the streets will be usable.

I was SOOOOOOOOOOO mad yesterday!!! Our son had hockey tournament in Westboro at 7 pm...and it was snowing hard. We saw many plow trucks standing next to exits and drivers were talking to each other. Other plows were cleaning private driveways... While we had to drive absolutely snowy and scarey Route #495 and #9!!! We could be injured/killed at least 5 times.:mad: