HAL Ryndam insult to British & American passengers

could someone maybe explain why or how the OP was insulted and just why he made such a complaint?

I certainly don't have a clue. It's International Night, not "countries represented by the passengers on this cruise" night.

Roy

D-Day was an important anniversary not only for the Brits and Americans, but Canadians too. Don't forget that historical fact.

 

That being said, we Canadians still saw celebrations and commemorative events for D-Day. I think it is important for the older generation to remind the younger folks of these important historical events.

I agree, and, lest we forget there, were at least 11 other nations represented on the Beaches including Free French, Free Netherlands etc.

Although the Canadians fought under the Union Flag, Prime Minister MacKenzie King insisted that they be a separate army with their own command structure.

Should they decorate the MDR for the anniversaries of Pearl Harbor, Anzio, D-Day, Waterloo, 911?

Let's get real here. As a couple with 52 years of combined military service we would have never made this an issue and would have loved sailing on the MS Ryndam.

What a whimpering society we have become.

My wife and I sailed with Holland America Line (HAL) MS Ryndam to the Norwegian Fjords on 31st May 2014. The Captain had already told us that 70% of the passengers were British and the remainder were mainly American's or Canadian's. On Friday 6th June the theme in the main dining room was International Around the World and each table had a flag setting. I asked the waiter where the Union Flag was as we were 5 British people but he just shrugged. My friend & I checked the upper level of the dining room and could find only 1 Union Flag & 1 American flag so I complained to the person in charge of the upper level. I asked him if he knew the relevance of the day and he said it was the 70th anniversary of D-Day. I told him that I felt insulted that in the pre-dinner announcements no mention was made of the anniversary and that the Union flag was represented on only 1 table. The response I got was that he would pass on my comments. I e-mailed HAL with my complaints and have had a response but with no mention of my complaint re-lack of Union flags & D-day.

 

I know other passengers were suitable disgusted at Ryndam's apparent inability to amend the normal Around the World night to recognise such an important Anniversary relevant to the overwhelming majority of it's passengers....

Let's see...this is supposed to be an international festive celebratory dinner. You've doing a quote count of flags. And you think a celebratory dinner is the appropriate event to mark a wartime battle where 12,000 Allied service members died?

A moment of silence at 11AM would have been more appropriate. Forget the party favors.

Should they decorate the MDR for the anniversaries of Pearl Harbor, Anzio, D-Day, Waterloo, 911?

 

Let's get real here. As a couple with 52 years of combined military service we would have never made this an issue and would have loved sailing on the MS Ryndam.

 

What a whimpering society we have become.

Right on Chief.:)

It's a dinner. A dinner of international flavors. So HAL puts out flags to decorate the tables. The flags aren't there to commemorate war heroes or war villains. The flags are to bring an international flavor to the dining room to complement the international flavors of the foods.

It's unfortunate for HAL, and perhaps insensitive, that they picked D-Day for the International Dinner, an emotional day for many nations peoples. And it's unfortunate that HAL didn't make the intent of the dinner clear at the time, doubly insensitive that they didn't address this in their reply to a letter to their Customer Service. sigh The cruise world can't be everything to everybody.

IMHO, it's hard to have a bad day on cruise ship, especially if you don't have to go the infirmary! I may be sad that the OP didn't get a satisfactory reply to their letter, but not surprised.

m--

Should they decorate the MDR for the anniversaries of Pearl Harbor, Anzio, D-Day, Waterloo, 911?

 

Let's get real here. As a couple with 52 years of combined military service we would have never made this an issue and would have loved sailing on the MS Ryndam.

 

What a whimpering society we have become.

Let's see...this is supposed to be an international festive celebratory dinner. You've doing a quote count of flags. And you think a celebratory dinner is the appropriate event to mark a wartime battle where 12,000 Allied service members died?

 

A moment of silence at 11AM would have been more appropriate. Forget the party favors.

Well said both. I agree with the 11:00 AM moment of silence if something were being done.

I think HAL commemorated the D-Day anniversary to the best of my knowledge with a specific cruise to honour the occasion. Nice touch to bring those passionate about WWII together. With their largest ship.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2013/08/16/d-day-anniversary-cruise/2663831/

Not having booked the cruise I have no specific idea as to the themed dinners but I can imagine it was as the cruise title suggests.

To me that is appropriate.

To be outraged that an International dinner does not honour a specific anniversary like D-Day on an unrelated cruise with theme specific flags honouring the Allies is a stretch. Where does that rabbit hole end?

I think HAL did a great thing having a D-Day cruise and anyone that passionate about it could have availed themselves of it.

I'm sorry that OP felt his/her cruise was compromised on this issue. Different strokes I guess.

typos only allowed for some...then it would have been - how dare you correct someone's comment?

 

Looking forward to cruise - 476 hours

Not sure why you felt the need to post that, but seeing as you did.....

I spent over a year surfing this forum before I dared to post. I researched everything. I got to know whose information you could count on, and whose you could not. I recall actually reading - and in my gullible newness, believing - that a Jacob's Ladder was used in one of the Alaska excursions where you transferred to a catamaran, and it scared the heck out of me. I will find out for myself for sure next week. There are true typos, and there is constant misinformation.

Sorry about the detour, now back to the topic in hand.... and no, I do not believe the captain or Holland insulted anyone.

typos only allowed for some...then it would have been - how dare you correct someone's comment?

 

Looking forward to cruise - 476 hours

:D:D Actually the 1942 was a big one so I did appreciate it:) But still:D:D

Joanie

Not sure why you felt the need to post that' date=' but seeing as you did.....

 

I spent over a year surfing this forum before I dared to post. I researched [i']everything[/i]. I got to know whose information you could count on, and whose you could not. I recall actually reading - and in my gullible newness, believing - that a Jacob's Ladder was used in one of the Alaska excursions where you transferred to a catamaran, and it scared the heck out of me. I will find out for myself for sure next week. There are true typos, and there is constant misinformation.

 

Sorry about the detour, now back to the topic in hand.... and no, I do not believe the captain or Holland insulted anyone.

No worries; the transfer to the Cat will be via a portable ramp, carried on the Cat. No Jacob's ladder involved; Enjoy that cruise!

I don't think it would have hurt HAL or any other cruise line to actually acknowledge the fact that it was D-Day.......make an announcement about it and offer a moment of silence for ALL the troops (on either side of the conflict).

If that had happened, then I think the OP would probably not have had a complaint about the International Dinner flags. Just acknowledging that is was an important day in history would have appeased most people. jmho

I don't think it would have hurt HAL or any other cruise line to actually acknowledge the fact that it was D-Day.......make an announcement about it and offer a moment of silence for ALL the troops (on either side of the conflict).

 

If that had happened, then I think the OP would probably not have had a complaint about the International Dinner flags. Just acknowledging that is was an important day in history would have appeased most people. jmho

It was probably mentioned into the news bulletins that are available, but I really don't see the need to mention it otherwise. It's not like June 6 is a national holiday anywhere -- not the US nor Great Britain. People who remember the day will remember the day. To everyone else, it was just a Friday.

Of course the OP had a right to notice and be offended, but I have the equal right to comment that to me (and a majority of the rest of the world) the perceived insult was not really a big deal.

But then I nitpick about other things -- closing a public lounge on the full ship a full 3 hours before the art auction on a rainy cold sea day. That's insulting to me. We all notice different things.

Let's see...this is supposed to be an international festive celebratory dinner. You've doing a quote count of flags. And you think a celebratory dinner is the appropriate event to mark a wartime battle where 12,000 Allied service members died?

 

A moment of silence at 11AM would have been more appropriate. Forget the party favors.

Great suggestion. Wondering what they do for 9/11?

Maybe HAL would consider full size flags at both entrances to the MDR on International night and eliminate individual table sized flags. I have many private and public dates that I honor privately. How any international company could keep track of the significant dates of every country is beyond me. In any event, I refuse to allow things that are out of my control upset me. It is my vacation - not HAL's. Now if they ran out of Ketel One vodka...

Let me think about this; see, the OP was cruising the Norwegian fjords. My husband had an uncle that was a German paratrooper in WWII that died jumping into Norway during the German invasion. Perhaps a moment of silence for those brave men fighting for their country would have been appropriate?

Guess not, only the victors have the right to a moment of silence.

No worries; the transfer to the Cat will be via a portable ramp, carried on the Cat. No Jacob's ladder involved; Enjoy that cruise!

Thank you for that reassurance. I also found some similar comments recently during my research. I am approaching the excursion with less trepidition now!:o

Let me think about this; see, the OP was cruising the Norwegian fjords. My husband had an uncle that was a German paratrooper in WWII that died jumping into Norway during the German invasion. Perhaps a moment of silence for those brave men fighting for their country would have been appropriate?

 

Guess not, only the victors have the right to a moment of silence.

It may please you to know that about a month ago the Canadian Forces held a service in Halifax at the memorial to the deceased US servicemen from the War of 1812 who were buried nearby. It was covered extensively on the local news.

I thought it was quite touching.

I come from a family of WWII veterans (long generations in our family). One thing on my bucket list is to see the Normandy beaches for myself and the Canadian cemetery. My dad's 3 brothers landed on that day. I do not expect HAL to do this for me. When it is time I will book a cruise with that on the itinerary or do a land vacation so DH can locate the WWI trenches which is something he has told me he wants to do since we were dating.

I have seen pictures that bring tears to my eyes and I will do it. I would not expect HAL, in all regions of the world, to honour all countries special dates/events in history. It is up to us to keep the torch lit and I would not have given this dinner a second thought as I personally feel that the OP has taken the meaning of the dinner out of context. I am not saying they are wrong in any way, just for us, I would have enjoyed the international dinner and said a prayer with my family over the D-Day anniversary. It just so happens that the dinner and the anniversary where on the same night. I probably would not have connected the dots myself, seing as the ship was in Norway and not France.

So the OP was more clued in than me. I think the OP is to be commended for their desire to remember and that is what is important as history forgotten is bound to be repeated. But I don't think it is a cruise line's job to remember for us. We need to take responsibility for it ourselves and teach each new generation the importance of these events.

I come from a family of WWII veterans (long generations in our family). One thing on my bucket list is to see the Normandy beaches for myself and the Canadian cemetery. My dad's 3 brothers landed on that day. I do not expect HAL to do this for me. When it is time I will book a cruise with that on the itinerary or do a land vacation so DH can locate the WWI trenches which is something he has told me he wants to do since we were dating.

 

I have seen pictures that bring tears to my eyes and I will do it. I would not expect HAL, in all regions of the world, to honour all countries special dates/events in history. It is up to us to keep the torch lit and I would not have given this dinner a second thought as I personally feel that the OP has taken the meaning of the dinner out of context. I am not saying they are wrong in any way, just for us, I would have enjoyed the international dinner and said a prayer with my family over the D-Day anniversary. It just so happens that the dinner and the anniversary where on the same night. I probably would not have connected the dots myself, seing as the ship was in Norway and not France.

 

So the OP was more clued in than me. I think the OP is to be commended for their desire to remember and that is what is important as history forgotten is bound to be repeated. But I don't think it is a cruise line's job to remember for us. We need to take responsibility for it ourselves and teach each new generation the importance of these events.

Outstanding post! Hope you get to fulfill that wish. We had a chance to visit the U.S. cemetery at Collville-sur-Mer above the Normandy beaches some years ago. It's a very moving experience!

I come from a family of WWII veterans (long generations in our family). One thing on my bucket list is to see the Normandy beaches for myself and the Canadian cemetery. My dad's 3 brothers landed on that day. I do not expect HAL to do this for me. When it is time I will book a cruise with that on the itinerary or do a land vacation so DH can locate the WWI trenches which is something he has told me he wants to do since we were dating.

 

I have seen pictures that bring tears to my eyes and I will do it. I would not expect HAL, in all regions of the world, to honour all countries special dates/events in history. It is up to us to keep the torch lit and I would not have given this dinner a second thought as I personally feel that the OP has taken the meaning of the dinner out of context. I am not saying they are wrong in any way, just for us, I would have enjoyed the international dinner and said a prayer with my family over the D-Day anniversary. It just so happens that the dinner and the anniversary where on the same night. I probably would not have connected the dots myself, seing as the ship was in Norway and not France.

 

So the OP was more clued in than me. I think the OP is to be commended for their desire to remember and that is what is important as history forgotten is bound to be repeated. But I don't think it is a cruise line's job to remember for us. We need to take responsibility for it ourselves and teach each new generation the importance of these events.

My thoughts exactly and I knew if I waited long enough someone would express them more eloquently than I could. You are that person, no surprise, and I thank you.

Just as an aside, YES people do filch the flags from the International Night dinner tables. We met a man who was originally from the Czech Republic on our Caribbean cruise last December. We had gone to the Pinnacle that night, but when we met up in the Explorer's Lounge later, he showed us the Czech flag he had "acquired" and made several jokes about us having to bail him out of the brig later. I feel certain he is not the only one.

No worries; the transfer to the Cat will be via a portable ramp, carried on the Cat. No Jacob's ladder involved; Enjoy that cruise!

I must have read that same post because I kept visualizing the ladder - even tho I KNEW from reading the post that it was the ramps. Still the vision was in my head - there is no bleach for that!!!

I come from a family of WWII veterans (long generations in our family). One thing on my bucket list is to see the Normandy beaches for myself and the Canadian cemetery. My dad's 3 brothers landed on that day. I do not expect HAL to do this for me. When it is time I will book a cruise with that on the itinerary or do a land vacation so DH can locate the WWI trenches which is something he has told me he wants to do since we were dating.

<snip>

I strongly urge you and your husband to plan on a multiple day trip. The beaches themselves as well as the adjacent cemeteries require a good deal of time and you definitely don't want to be constantly checking your watch to be sure you're back to the ship on time.

There's so much more to see and do such as a visit to Pont de Hoc, which I found incredibly moving. There are still a few German fortifications there as well. Then there's Sainte Mere-Eglise, where a paratrooper had his chute snag on the church roof.

In honor of the bravery of the D Day invasion the church in Sainte Mere-Eglise actually has stained glass windows depicting the swarm of parachutes that landed on D Day.

But what was most memorable to us was how much gratitude there remains among the local folks in Normandy several generations later. We were treated so wonderfully by the folks who were genuine when they asked if we were Americans and when we said yes, we heard several say "God bless you."

And finally the WW II memorial in Caen, about an hour south of the Normandy beaches is worth a full day.

My suggestion is don't put it off. Get it off your bucket list by booking a land trip now and make sure you plan for a multiple day trip. You'll create lasting memories for yourself and your husband.

I honestly believe this was a total oversight. Think about working on a ship. These people work hard week after week. I can only imagine how dates and even days of the week run together. I'm sure the date didn't even register with them. That is not their fault.

To make an issue of it....well I find it kind of sad. I understand the date means a lot to some people. The fact that it was not mentioned or announced is not a reason to complain. You are on a cruise for heavens sake. A lot of people will never ever be able to go on a cruise. In fact, I would bet a lot of people call going to their neighboring city or town for the day a vacation.

Pick your battles.