Withholding tips practice and future cruise mates.

We have met a couple that have suggested taking a cruise together, but they said that they always pull their daily auto tips. I politely explained to them my reasons for not doing that ourselves. We have only traveled with another couple once before, and am not sure if we should travel with this couple. We do seem to get along with them quite well.

Tipping is a hot issue with me, and I know that I wouldn't even know if they did or not, but now I do.

We have all probably had a bad day at work, and not always performed at our top level, but even so we are usually fully paid our wages.

At an on-shore restaurant it is a very rare occasion that I would tip less than 15% these days, mostly tip 20%. Many of these servers are struggling to make ends meet, and have very difficult working conditions with rude customers and demanding bosses.

I just don't understand why people are so tough on cruise ship staff.

If you are friends and you get along/agree on most things the there shouldn't be any reason not to cruise them.

I have friends and family that say/do things I don't agree with but I don't walk in their shoes and I don't know their reasons.

Maybe they give them in cash instead or have had a bad experience with stewards in the past? Theres a chance they might change their minds once on board (like my husband did on our first cruise). Theres also the chance that if things don't work out you can politely 'miss' them on board as the ship is so big...book your cabins a little bit away form each other.

I once met a couple on a cruise that didn't pay any tips, buy any drinks (so had a 0 on their account at the end of the cruise) but apparently did charitable donations in ports. Never heard of anyone do that/claim to do that since.

I don't even agree with myself all of the time and if I were only friends with people that I agreed with on most everything I'd have no friends. They are who they are and how they tip (or not) is really up to them. I agree with you that it shouldn't be done, but I can only control what I do (although I would explain why I think it's important not to do what they do). I had to dine out twice in one day a couple of years ago and the tips for the two meals (breakfast and dinner) came to $9.50 a person and we weren't eating in high end establishments. What the cruise lines charge for 3 meals a day and steward service twice a day is definitely a bargain.

It's commonly said that politics and religion are two subjects which shouldn't be discussed amongst friends who hold different opinions.

Add tipping to that list & your problem is solved ;)

Enjoy your cruise

JB :)

If you go on NCL, you are not allowed to remove tips onboard - it is completely impossible for the onboard staff to do that and you have to write to the company after the cruise in order to be reimbursed. In order to be reimbursed, you are required to have documented that you complained onboard and have proof that your complaint was not resolved.

Maybe that will solve this problem BEFORE it even occurs?

I would avoid them as cruise companions. They will want to cheap out on shore, speciality restaurants, ship excursions and may stick you with a bar tab or more.

You didn't mention which cruise line you might be sailing on, but the rules concerning tips are different on the various lines.

For example on HAL, if you remove the Hotel Service Charge, and decide to tip individually, the crew must turn in those personal tips to be divided among all crew members. That is why we leave the Hotel Service Charge in place and anyone whom we feel has made our cruise an enjoyable we do tip extra.

We have met a couple that have suggested taking a cruise together, but they said that they always pull their daily auto tips. I politely explained to them my reasons for not doing that ourselves. We have only traveled with another couple once before, and am not sure if we should travel with this couple. We do seem to get along with them quite well.

 

Tipping is a hot issue with me, and I know that I wouldn't even know if they did or not, but now I do.

 

We have all probably had a bad day at work, and not always performed at our top level, but even so we are usually fully paid our wages.

 

At an on-shore restaurant it is a very rare occasion that I would tip less than 15% these days, mostly tip 20%. Many of these servers are struggling to make ends meet, and have very difficult working conditions with rude customers and demanding bosses.

 

I just don't understand why people are so tough on cruise ship staff.

Tipping is a personal thing... we usually tip well above the auto tip, leaving the auto tip on like you, I would pay no mind to what anyone did or did not do... not my business.

Why would you want to spend a week with a couple who take advantage of the staff who work day and night to serve.

I wouldn't want to go anywhere with someone who brags that they are cheap. Why did they​ feel it was necessary to tell you what they do?

So they are cheap braggarts.

They wouldn't be my friends.

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Just a rhetorical question (from a very long time cruiser). If tips are mandatory and the amount specified by the cruise line....are they really tips? Cruise lines have various reasons for continuing the "tip" tradition...and none of these reasons have anything to do with supporting the cruisers or enhancing service. It is interesting that several of the Ultra Luxury cruise lines do not encourage tipping and some go out of their way to discourage tipping. For example, Regent recommends that if you really feel like tipping...they simply donate to the Crew Welfare Fund (which helps fund crew parties). Seabourn tells cruisers that tips are neither "required" or expected by any of the crew (some cruisers will tip anyway).

But the thing about the mass market cruise lines and "tipping" is interesting. For example, do you have any idea where your auto tips go? Nope. In fact, the cruise lines now do their best to keep this information secret. Mass market lines do a great job (for themselves) in specific low prices for a cruise because they do not include (taxes and fees) or tips. So when you see a cruise for $999 per person that is likely to really be something like $1200 per person! It is all part of the cost deception practiced by many in the travel industry. In Australia, where tipping is not accepted in the culture....cruise lines have had to revamp their pricing for ships based in that country. For example, the Sea Princess (which has been home ported in Sydney for years) prices cruises (for Australians) at a higher price....but does not try charging these folks "auto tips." Life would be a lot easier if lines followed this type of policy in the US. If an inside cabin is priced at $999....then the cruiser should pay $999! What a simple concept.

Hank

Most hotels in Vegas charge a resort fee, how long until cruise lines try that added charge.

Just a rhetorical question (from a very long time cruiser). If tips are mandatory and the amount specified by the cruise line....are they really tips? Cruise lines have various reasons for continuing the "tip" tradition...and none of these reasons have anything to do with supporting the cruisers or enhancing service. It is interesting that several of the Ultra Luxury cruise lines do not encourage tipping and some go out of their way to discourage tipping. For example, Regent recommends that if you really feel like tipping...they simply donate to the Crew Welfare Fund (which helps fund crew parties). Seabourn tells cruisers that tips are neither "required" or expected by any of the crew (some cruisers will tip anyway).

 

But the thing about the mass market cruise lines and "tipping" is interesting. For example, do you have any idea where your auto tips go? Nope. In fact, the cruise lines now do their best to keep this information secret. Mass market lines do a great job (for themselves) in specific low prices for a cruise because they do not include (taxes and fees) or tips. So when you see a cruise for $999 per person that is likely to really be something like $1200 per person! It is all part of the cost deception practiced by many in the travel industry. In Australia, where tipping is not accepted in the culture....cruise lines have had to revamp their pricing for ships based in that country. For example, the Sea Princess (which has been home ported in Sydney for years) prices cruises (for Australians) at a higher price....but does not try charging these folks "auto tips." Life would be a lot easier if lines followed this type of policy in the US. If an inside cabin is priced at $999....then the cruiser should pay $999! What a simple concept.

 

Hank

You and them are clearly not on the same page. Ditch them and go on your own.

I can ignore many personality quirks. But pulling tips as a matter of course is disrespectful to the hard working staff who make our cruises more pleasant. I would not want to spend time with people who disrespect others for their own personal gain. .

I would tell them to find someone else to cruise with. In fact, I would tell them not to bother contacting us again.

I had to dine out twice in one day a couple of years ago and the tips for the two meals (breakfast and dinner) came to $9.50 a person and we weren't eating in high end establishments. What the cruise lines charge for 3 meals a day and steward service twice a day is definitely a bargain.

Its not really a bargain when you consider how much the lines make in a year and how much they could pay their staff instead of us doing it.

On a random note to the OP, is it possible they are the type to 'try and shock' ie say 'I am not tipping' just to be controversial

when actually they do?

Its not really a bargain when you consider how much the lines make in a year and how much they could pay their staff instead of us doing it.

?

Be careful what you are wishing for. When labor costs go higher, so does your cruise fare. The two always go hand in hand.

Its not really a bargain when you consider how much the lines make in a year and how much they could pay their staff instead of us doing it.

Every time I read something like this, I laugh out loud. Do you really think that the cruse line executives are the ones who are paying the salary of their employees out of their own pockets? Absolutely not! It is their customers who are paying those salaries. The funds the companies receive from us pay their expenses, from the captain's salary, to maintenance of the ship, to fuel and equipment upgrades. It is the paying customers who pay for all of this. And it is the paying customers who are asked to pay the staff's salary in the form of gratuities. If they were being paid by the cruise line, we'd be paying comparably higher fares to cover those salaries.

So what darn difference does it make how they collect these funds for their staff's pay? Whether it is as gratuities or as increased fare prices, it is the customers who will be paying those costs. If paying the gratuities offends you, then you should not be cruising, because the additional fares you would be paying should offend you as well.

I'd love to see the day when cruise fares include the service costs. Until then, I will keep the automatic gratuities and also tip where warranted. As to cruising with non-tippers, yuck! How could you feel comfortable sitting at dinner with people who have admitted they plan to stiff the servers?

My traveling companion and I have differing views on end of cruise gratuities for stateroom and dining staff. She feels I am too generous given the daily hotel charge. To avoid argument, we each "do our own thing". We prepare separate gratuity envelopes with notes for those for whom we wish to reward. Interestingly, our service this January by the staff of the Ocean Bar on the Nieuw Amsterdam resulted in agreement that our two regular Stewards deserved much more than the standard 15% gratuity added to our bar bills.

Every time I read something like this, I laugh out loud. Do you really think that the cruse line executives are the ones who are paying the salary of their employees out of their own pockets? Absolutely not! It is their customers who are paying those salaries. The funds the companies receive from us pay their expenses, from the captain's salary, to maintenance of the ship, to fuel and equipment upgrades. It is the paying customers who pay for all of this. And it is the paying customers who are asked to pay the staff's salary in the form of gratuities. If they were being paid by the cruise line, we'd be paying comparably higher fares to cover those salaries.

 

So what darn difference does it make how they collect these funds for their staff's pay? Whether it is as gratuities or as increased fare prices, it is the customers who will be paying those costs. If paying the gratuities offends you, then you should not be cruising, because the additional fares you would be paying should offend you as well.

I also roll my eyes when I read comments like the one you are referring to. I don't know where they think the money for these "living wages" (whatever that means) that they are used to in their own countries comes from. From a magical fairy with a pot of gold who suddenly appears out of thin air and drops money into the hands of their service people? CLUE: It's from the customers in the form of higher prices!

This "our way is the best way" mentality is rather arrogant, actually.

Besides, these narrow minded people have no idea what the income arrangements are that the cruise line service staff deal with. What is entirely oblivious to these complainers is that the majority of service staff on a cruise ship come from Asian countries. Most of these countries have high levels of corruption in their governments. The taxes they pay on income is high, and much of those taxes fill the pockets of corrupt politicians and officials, instead of being used for the benefit of the masses. In most of these countries, only salary is taxed. Income from tips is not. This is partially because income from gratuities can be hidden from the corrupt officials and remains in the pockets of the people actually receiving them.

If they were paid their entire income in salary, all of it would have to be reported. The agency that hires them out to the cruise lines would get a cut, the corrupt politicians and officials in their countries would get their cut, and the employees would end up with much less than they are getting with gratuities as separate sources of income.

So, to those of you who constantly complain about the gratuity system not being they way you want it to be, try thinking about the people who are at the receiving end of these gratuities instead of only thinking about yourselves. You might actually learn to show some compassion in spite of yourselves if you do. :rolleyes:

Be careful what you are wishing for. When labor costs go higher, so does your cruise fare. The two always go hand in hand.

Every time I read something like this, I laugh out loud. Do you really think that the cruse line executives are the ones who are paying the salary of their employees out of their own pockets? Absolutely not! It is their customers who are paying those salaries. The funds the companies receive from us pay their expenses, from the captain's salary, to maintenance of the ship, to fuel and equipment upgrades. It is the paying customers who pay for all of this. And it is the paying customers who are asked to pay the staff's salary in the form of gratuities. If they were being paid by the cruise line, we'd be paying comparably higher fares to cover those salaries.

 

So what darn difference does it make how they collect these funds for their staff's pay? Whether it is as gratuities or as increased fare prices, it is the customers who will be paying those costs. If paying the gratuities offends you, then you should not be cruising, because the additional fares you would be paying should offend you as well.

I was just musing at the fact that someone thinks cruise grats are a bargain.

Safaa,I have said this many times before on here and I will repeat it. It is most odd that when main stream cruise lines sail in Asia and Oz that suddenly tips are included and cruise fair is the same price as US/Europe. Carnival is big example of this...their Oz cruises are very very cheap to me....shame the air fare isn't but there you go. I also read an interesting business page that cruise line profits are sky high in recent times. From their gross profit and doing the maths they have plenty to build new ships, heck new offices, hire more admin and bigwigs AND pay staff at a living wage.

Santa,I realise how business and custom works.As far as most of the world is concerned you paid the staff wages when you paid your cruise fair...then you have to pay again because of (said this so many times too) the tipping trickster culture. I have pretty much rationally and nicely said this in so many ways on here but it seems to me like some US folk get miffed they pay more for social endeavours than most around the world.

The tipping thing almost stopped me cruising for a short breath but I figured its something I have to deal with for 7-14 days and then I pay and go. I am so glad that when I head home to the UK and head out for drinks and eats that the staff serving me are paid a decent wage. If the service is good they get 10%-12% from my party....and despite popular belief about European service staff they usually are because we treat them well.

Peace.

I also roll my eyes when I read comments like the one you are referring to. I don't know where they think the money for these "living wages" (whatever that means) that they are used to in their own countries comes from. From a magical fairy with a pot of gold who suddenly appears out of thin air and drops money into the hands of their service people? CLUE: It's from the customers in the form of higher prices!

 

This "our way is the best way" mentality is rather arrogant, actually.

 

Besides, these narrow minded people have no idea what the income arrangements are that the cruise line service staff deal with. What is entirely oblivious to these complainers is that the majority of service staff on a cruise ship come from Asian countries. Most of these countries have high levels of corruption in their governments. The taxes they pay on income is high, and much of those taxes fill the pockets of corrupt politicians and officials, instead of being used for the benefit of the masses. In most of these countries, only salary is taxed. Income from tips is not. This is partially because income from gratuities can be hidden from the corrupt officials and remains in the pockets of the people actually receiving them.

 

If they were paid their entire income in salary, all of it would have to be reported. The agency that hires them out to the cruise lines would get a cut, the corrupt politicians and officials in their countries would get their cut, and the employees would end up with much less than they are getting with gratuities as separate sources of income.

 

So, to those of you who constantly complain about the gratuity system not being they way you want it to be, try thinking about the people who are at the receiving end of these gratuities instead of only thinking about yourselves. You might actually learn to show some compassion in spite of yourselves if you do. :rolleyes:

living wage = hourly rate that means a full time worker has enough to pay the average bills/housing/food costs. Varies from country to country depending on economy. This is paid by the buisness or by the region/area council. If you can't afford these costs you don't start up if you can't employ or if you have certain charity status you get government help...this is the UK model but is common in other countries also.

Current UK one is £8.25 ($11)

Interesting you mention about corrupt asian countries as it varies depending on region too. There are also the other majority of eastern European workers who do not have that problem. One could also flip it and say cruise lines are also exploiting workers as no westerner from a economically sound country would talk up that job. As much as I am glad there are cruise lines providing job chances I also find it unfair they are paid less than those doing the same job around the world. But then again I wasn't comfortable knowing how little the great service staff were paid when in the US.

I care about those who help/serve me and would prefer it if they knew they were getting a living wage no matter what happened or who they were serving. Its not about 'my way is best and I am right' its about being fair to everyone.

It reminds me of the economist pie analogy but changed:

A cruise company owner, a cabin steward and a cruiser are served a delicious pie cut into 5 pieces . The cruise company boss takes 4 peices and leaves as he says to the cabin steward 'Don't worry, the cruiser will share his slice with you'.

OP, cruise with your friends and enjoy it....it may turn into a lasting relationship.

I would avoid them as cruise companions. They will want to cheap out on shore, speciality restaurants, ship excursions and may stick you with a bar tab or more.

Agreed. I used to know someone who every time we had dinner in a restaurant she would eat at least half of the dish and then complain to the waiter how terrible it was until the charge was removed. Didn't take long before I would refuse to go anywhere with her. It was embarrassing. I really don't think I could consider these people to be friends knowing they were going to stiff the staff. Maybe it's just me, but it would bother me a lot. There's a saying - if someone is nice to you but mean to the waiter, they are not a nice person.

Respect, do you respect this couple? If so have fun.