Class action suit against Southwest EBCI

It's about time that Southwest addressed problems with their "Early Bird Check In" product. There is no limit to the number that can be purchased, no guarantee that you'll actually board "early" or get any particular seat preference or location, no restriction of other passengers saving seats. Southwest dismisses concerns expressed about the product and their failure to protect its value. Pleased to see that someone is taking this step:

http://consumerist.com/2014/11/21/southwest-airlines-sued-over-early-bird-fees-that-dont-guarantee-priority-boarding/

This has always cracked me up about Southwest. People will have no problem paying $12.50 for a chance to possibly, maybe get a slightly better seat (including the, what, 6 extra legroom (exit) seats out of 137+), but bitch and moan when other airlines guarantee you an extra legroom seat for $20.

But, to defend Southwest, they have never promised anything like a better seat or A boarding group with EBCI.

This has always cracked me up about Southwest. People will have no problem paying $12.50 for a chance to possibly, maybe get a slightly better seat (including the, what, 6 extra legroom (exit) seats out of 137+), but bitch and moan when other airlines guarantee you an extra legroom seat for $20.

 

But, to defend Southwest, they have never promised anything like a better seat or A boarding group with EBCI.

I personally paid a total of $570 EXTRA for JetBlue's "even more space" seats for the three of us, round-trip PWM-LAS for next July. Most flights are $25 - $50 extra and we do pay it.

The challenge with EBCI is they offer a better boarding position, more seat selection options and earlier access to overhead bins. In my experience, if you're after family boarding, you have very little to choose from. Even if you are before family boarding, seat-savers often block space for others who did not pay. The lawsuit challenges the fact that Southwest will assign better positions to T-24 check-ins if earlier positions cancel (which I have personally seen a number of times.) I'm hoping the suit forces them to also resolve the issues I mentioned.

https://www.southwest.com/flight/early-bird-retrieve-reservation.html?clk=HOMEICON3RLYBRD141118

I print out boarding passes for my guests at the hotel. I've seen many an Early Bird pass come out with a mid-B number right at the second OLCI becomes available. Sometimes, insult is added to injury when the guest has also lost the Pre-Check lotto and will have to stand in "untrusted" line at our airport, which can take 20-25 minutes to clear...

Paying this fee doesn't guarantee you will be in the "A" group, and this is clearly noted on Southwest's webpage. Poorly written article that doesn't provide much information. Did two people just file a complaint? Has this class been certified?

I personally paid a total of $570 EXTRA for JetBlue's "even more space" seats for the three of us, round-trip PWM-LAS for next July. Most flights are $25 - $50 extra and we do pay it.

 

The challenge with EBCI is they offer a better boarding position, more seat selection options and earlier access to overhead bins. In my experience, if you're after family boarding, you have very little to choose from. Even if you are before family boarding, seat-savers often block space for others who did not pay. The lawsuit challenges the fact that Southwest will assign better positions to T-24 check-ins if earlier positions cancel (which I have personally seen a number of times.) I'm hoping the suit forces them to also resolve the issues I mentioned.

 

https://www.southwest.com/flight/early-bird-retrieve-reservation.html?clk=HOMEICON3RLYBRD141118

Seat saving is not allowed, and you are welcome to sit in any open seat. If the seat saver chooses not to sit next to you, they are welcome to move to a different open seat. The flight attendants will side with you on this. I haven't flown WN in over a decade, but has a friend who's corporate policy requires her to fly them almost weekly, and she selects a seat and sits in it--and doesn't care if some selfish seat saver tries to tell her it's saved. She won't budge and they can go to double hockey sticks as far as she is concerned. The FA's ALWAYS side with her--that is corporate policy. At this point I think she is enjoying it just to rile up the ignorant people who try to game the system.

Seat saving is not allowed, and you are welcome to sit in any open seat. If the seat saver chooses not to sit next to you, they are welcome to move to a different open seat. The flight attendants will side with you on this. I haven't flown WN in over a decade, but has a friend who's corporate policy requires her to fly them almost weekly, and she selects a seat and sits in it--and doesn't care if some selfish seat saver tries to tell her it's saved. She won't budge and they can go to double hockey sticks as far as she is concerned. The FA's ALWAYS side with her--that is corporate policy. At this point I think she is enjoying it just to rile up the ignorant people who try to game the system.

Southwest's position is that they don't have a position on seat-saving. I, too, have challenged seat-savers on two occasions; both times the FA offered to call a supervisor and the seat-saver moved.

Paying this fee doesn't guarantee you will be in the "A" group, and this is clearly noted on Southwest's webpage. Poorly written article that doesn't provide much information. Did two people just file a complaint? Has this class been certified?

Actually, it says that while it's not guaranteed, you will "most likely" get it. I think that sets the reasonable expectation that if one is paying the extra fee, one will be among the first group to board. What seems most ridiculous though, is that Southwest does not limit the number of people who may purchase early check in, so theoretically every single passenger could purchase it and it would thus be meaningless.

Southwest's position is that they don't have a position on seat-saving. I, too, have challenged seat-savers on two occasions; both times the FA offered to call a supervisor and the seat-saver moved.

Good for you!

I can understand if someone is saving a seat for their spouse and small child because while waiting in line together the child suddenly had a bathroom emergency. But the arrogance of people who think only one person in the party needs to buy a seat that guarantees A boarding or the EBCI and then can save seats for others is pretty outrageous.

A lawsuit is not the answer, though. If you don't like the terms, don't pay for EBCI! I usually don't, but my DH likes not having to be on the computer at T-24.

I'm sick and tired of people who say "I didn't like the outcome! I'm going to sue you!"

A lawsuit is not the answer, though. If you don't like the terms, don't pay for EBCI! I usually don't, but my DH likes not having to be on the computer at T-24.

 

 

 

I'm sick and tired of people who say "I didn't like the outcome! I'm going to sue you!"

I disagree. Lawsuits aren't always about money. Sometimes they are only to force transparency.

Actually, it says that while it's not guaranteed, you will "most likely" get it. I think that sets the reasonable expectation that if one is paying the extra fee, one will be among the first group to board. What seems most ridiculous though, is that Southwest does not limit the number of people who may purchase early check in, so theoretically every single passenger could purchase it and it would thus be meaningless.

If you frequent online travel boards, there are many complaints by people paying for EBCI and getting in the B boarding group.

Keep in mind that A boarding group doesn't help much if you're boarding a connecting flight already filled with passengers!

What bothers me is when I purchase tickets for both my wife and I at the SAME exact time and add EBCI to our tickets and she ends up mid to end B, while I get mid to end A. Why is this? It is supposed to be based on the amount of A-listers on the plane and then goes by purchase date. There should be no reason for that. In this instance, yes I do save a seat for my wife until she gets on there, or even on occasion the boarding agent will allow her to board with me.

I also check my flights before I pick one on whether they have through passengers on board or not.

I go to a website that you can input your flight number, time and date info into and it will tell you where your plane is coming from.

For instance, our flight is coming from Washington D.C. and then takes us to San Juan via Tampa (no plane change). I then go back to Southwest's website and check flights out of Washington to D.C. to San Juan to see if any flights connect in St. Louis, which they did not. So I know everyone coming from Washington D.C. to St. Louis will be getting off of that flight and the plane will be empty.

...I go to a website that you can input your flight number, time and date info into and it will tell you where your plane is coming from.....

If not against CC rules, would you please post a link to this site.

Simple solution....don't fly Southwest. Use and airline that you pick your seat at booking and problem solved.

If not against CC rules, would you please post a link to this site.

Http:www//Flight aware.com

If not against CC rules, would you please post a link to this site.

http://Http://www.flightaware.com

If not against CC rules, would you please post a link to this site.

I use http://www.flightview.com/ . For me it is easier to look at the flight connection etc. Simpler website and not as much clutter.

I use http://www.flightview.com/ . For me it is easier to look at the flight connection etc. Simpler website and not as much clutter.

Thanks!

Thanks!

No problem! Really does make it easier to figure out if there will be anyone on your flight before you board and spend the extra for ebci!

Link to paperwork filed for those who want to wade through it:

https://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/robert_j_zammetti_et_al_v_southwest_airlines_co_et_al__cacdce-14-01792__0011-0.pdf

I like all the included nonsense about no checked bag fees.

I fly Southwest regularly from Florida to Islip. I always pay for Early Check-In. the problem comes with the wheelchairs and the blue passes given for anyone who wants one.

Very often there are 20+ wheelchairs waiting to board. Each wheelchair passenger has another passenger with them. This means that a minimum of 40 people are boarding first. Usually there are about 5 passengers with the blue passes. this translates to another 10 passengers.

Therefore, even if I am A25, which is considered to be a great position, (since the A1-15 seats are for passengers that paid business select prices or $40 to board in the first 15 positions), I will actually be boarding after 59 people have already gone on the plane.

I have called customer service many times complaining of the wheelchair policy. It is very unfair to have all these people board and then have those with positions they have paid extra for, then be allowed to board. I feel the wheelchair passengers should board in their proper order. If this was the case, we would have far less wheelchair passengers to contend with. It has become a perk that has caught on with alarming frequency.

Now, when I travel with my husband (who needs to utilize a wheelchair), I do not pay for Early check-in, and board first. Even knowing I can take advantage of this unfair practice, I realize how ludicrous it is.

I fly Southwest regularly from Florida to Islip. I always pay for Early Check-In. the problem comes with the wheelchairs and the blue passes given for anyone who wants one.

 

Very often there are 20+ wheelchairs waiting to board. Each wheelchair passenger has another passenger with them. This means that a minimum of 40 people are boarding first. Usually there are about 5 passengers with the blue passes. this translates to another 10 passengers.

 

Therefore, even if I am A25, which is considered to be a great position, (since the A1-15 seats are for passengers that paid business select prices or $40 to board in the first 15 positions), I will actually be boarding after 59 people have already gone on the plane.

 

I have called customer service many times complaining of the wheelchair policy. It is very unfair to have all these people board and then have those with positions they have paid extra for, then be allowed to board. I feel the wheelchair passengers should board in their proper order. If this was the case, we would have far less wheelchair passengers to contend with. It has become a perk that has caught on with alarming frequency.

 

Now, when I travel with my husband (who needs to utilize a wheelchair), I do not pay for Early check-in, and board first. Even knowing I can take advantage of this unfair practice, I realize how ludicrous it is.

Also a problem with the blue passes is that they place these mobility challenged (and often large) folks in an aisle seat close to the front of the plane. They settle them in first and they take all the time they need to get themselves in and comfortable. BUT there are 2 seats on the side of every immobile one that WILL have to be filled since most flights I have been on SW have had all or almost all seats sold. In today's plane configuration just how the heck do you get to those seats when an immobile person (ie can not easily get in and out of the seat) is sitting in the aisle position. God Forbid but if there was an emergency and you have an immobile person blocking the row and you have maybe a 1/3 of the rows thus blocked by people who can not move without assistance what kind of disaster are you ready for? There are only 2 or 3 FA's and they can't help the number of disabled that are present. For safety I would think they need to limit the number of wheel chair passengers per flight. This immobility problem also is a problem for clearing the plane at the end of the flight in that you can't get past the wheel chair folks at the front let alone get their baggage etc.

I was just on a cruise and heard many of the elders saying they always have a wheelchair because of the long distances to travel in some airports. Others did admit that it helps to have someone take them to their seat and place their luggage. I am close to needing this but it really isn't fair for so much special treatment on a self declared basis of need. I have been buying EB -- maybe now I will just wave my cane and have my first aisle seat automatically.

Bottom line, in the event of an emergency you triage. You leave for dead the ones you have no way of helping and move on to help those who only need a bit of assistance. It might sound cold or cruel, but ask any first responder and that is the answer you will get. The reality is that FA's are trained first and foremost to evacuate in an emergency.

If you are seated next to a non-ambulatory person, climb over them. There is no sense two people dying when one can self-evacuate. Save yourself first, if you are able to help someone else without putting yourself at further risk, do so. But don't add yourself to the statistic pile trying to be a hero in a situation you can't win. That's why firemen don't always run into a burning building even when they know someone is inside.

Seat saving is not allowed, and you are welcome to sit in any open seat. If the seat saver chooses not to sit next to you, they are welcome to move to a different open seat. The flight attendants will side with you on this. I haven't flown WN in over a decade, but has a friend who's corporate policy requires her to fly them almost weekly, and she selects a seat and sits in it--and doesn't care if some selfish seat saver tries to tell her it's saved. She won't budge and they can go to double hockey sticks as far as she is concerned. The FA's ALWAYS side with her--that is corporate policy. At this point I think she is enjoying it just to rile up the ignorant people who try to game the system.

This is not always true. I just got off a flight yesterday and was seated in one of the exit rows. Across the aisle, there was a man sitting in the aisle seat of the exit row with the most leg room. The middle seat and window seat were both open. A man decided he was going to sit in the window seat and he called for his wife who had just passed to come back. The man who was sitting in the aisle seat stated that the middle seat was saved for his wife who still had not boarded the plane. It almost came to a fist fight as the second guy stated that there was no saving of seats allowed. He was 100% in the right. The flight attendant was standing right there and did nothing to stop it or even tell the first guy that he could not save the seat. The second guy's wife finally gave in and said they should just find another two seats. The flight attendant did absolutely nothing. I wonder what would have happened if the second man's wife did not talk her husband out of sitting there.