Class action suit against Southwest EBCI

[pms4104]

I fly Southwest regularly from Florida to Islip. I always pay for Early Check-In. the problem comes with the wheelchairs and the blue passes given for anyone who wants one.

 

Very often there are 20+ wheelchairs waiting to board. Each wheelchair passenger has another passenger with them. This means that a minimum of 40 people are boarding first. Usually there are about 5 passengers with the blue passes. this translates to another 10 passengers.

 

Therefore, even if I am A25, which is considered to be a great position, (since the A1-15 seats are for passengers that paid business select prices or $40 to board in the first 15 positions), I will actually be boarding after 59 people have already gone on the plane.

 

I have called customer service many times complaining of the wheelchair policy. It is very unfair to have all these people board and then have those with positions they have paid extra for, then be allowed to board. I feel the wheelchair passengers should board in their proper order. If this was the case, we would have far less wheelchair passengers to contend with. It has become a perk that has caught on with alarming frequency.

 

Now, when I travel with my husband (who needs to utilize a wheelchair), I do not pay for Early check-in, and board first. Even knowing I can take advantage of this unfair practice, I realize how ludicrous it is.

Yes, we also have stood behind mobs of people who claim to need assistance or extra time ... Southwest should board them either with families between group A and B, or between groups B and C. I've seen the actual boarding positions printed on the boarding passes of many who ask for and get priority treatment ... and noted C group positions:eek:

 

For what it's worth ... I was at an AA gate at Chicago O'Hare where passengers were waiting for a flight to West Palm Beach ... During the 5 minutes I was in line (to ask the gate agent to rebook a traveler who had missed her connection because her flight to ORD had come in late) 3 people butted in line to request extra time/priority boarding. The gate agent said that AA didn't offer such a service ... but asked if it would be okay for them TO BOARD WITH FIRST CLASS. Yes, of course, they told the agent that would be just fine. Huh? So, it isn't just a Southwest thing.

Edited December 1, 2014 by pms4104

[doglover214]

The issue with Southwest is that there are no assigned seats. So, those that board first sit in the front rows, usually in aisle seats.

 

On other airlines that allow early boarding for those that need extra time, the seats are assigned and they could be sitting anywhere, including the back of the plane. Southwest is the only airline that guarantees front seats for passengers that board early.

[waterbug123]

Yes, we also have stood behind mobs of people who claim to need assistance or extra time ... asked if it would be okay for them TO BOARD WITH FIRST CLASS. Yes, of course, they told the agent that would be just fine. Huh? So, it isn't just a Southwest thing.

 

I fly Delta and they always call for "...and those needing a little extra time." What?!?! I have seen plenty of able-bodied people board then. But they way they phrase it I guess anyone can decide they "need a little extra time" and board early. :rolleyes:

 

The issue with Southwest is that there are no assigned seats. So, those that board first sit in the front rows, usually in aisle seats.

 

On other airlines that allow early boarding for those that need extra time, the seats are assigned and they could be sitting anywhere, including the back of the plane.

 

You can generally pick your seats ahead of time, rather than wait for them to be randomly assigned. Might cost you to do so, but if it's that important, the option usually exists to do so.

[ducklite]

This is not always true. I just got off a flight yesterday and was seated in one of the exit rows. Across the aisle, there was a man sitting in the aisle seat of the exit row with the most leg room. The middle seat and window seat were both open. A man decided he was going to sit in the window seat and he called for his wife who had just passed to come back. The man who was sitting in the aisle seat stated that the middle seat was saved for his wife who still had not boarded the plane. It almost came to a fist fight as the second guy stated that there was no saving of seats allowed. He was 100% in the right. The flight attendant was standing right there and did nothing to stop it or even tell the first guy that he could not save the seat. The second guy's wife finally gave in and said they should just find another two seats. The flight attendant did absolutely nothing. I wonder what would have happened if the second man's wife did not talk her husband out of sitting there.

 

 

Just because they did nothing doesn't mean if they had been asked to intervene they would have agreed with the seated passenger. If this happens in the future, demand the seats and demand the CRO be boarded to sort it out. I guarantee you will get the seats you wish to sit in.

[ducklite]

SW could easily fix this by taking all preboards to the back of the plane. The exception would be for truly non-ambulatory who arrive in their personal wheelchair. Not scooter, because anyone who rides a scooter has the ability to take a few steps. No airport wheelchair. Personal wheelchair.

Edited December 1, 2014 by ducklite

[Bowie MeMe]

SW could easily fix this by taking all preboards to the back of the plane. The exception would be for truly non-ambulatory who arrive in their personal wheelchair. Not scooter, because anyone who rides a scooter has the ability to take a few steps. No airport wheelchair. Personal wheelchair.

 

Somewhere I also saw that an able-bodied attendant must go with the wheel chair bound person. Maybe for cruises or at least tenders -- can't remember. If non-mobiles had to have an attendant that could help them believe me they would not fly often. I am not really against handicapped persons -- it is tough but just like handicapped parking spaces some folks do not mind taking advantage of the situation and making it hard for everyone. It is not easy to regulate such things either and insensitive and crass often goes hand in hand with a demanding personality and loud voice.:rolleyes:

[slidergirl]

I fly Southwest regularly from Florida to Islip. I always pay for Early Check-In. the problem comes with the wheelchairs and the blue passes given for anyone who wants one.

 

Very often there are 20+ wheelchairs waiting to board. Each wheelchair passenger has another passenger with them. This means that a minimum of 40 people are boarding first. Usually there are about 5 passengers with the blue passes. this translates to another 10 passengers.

 

Therefore, even if I am A25, which is considered to be a great position, (since the A1-15 seats are for passengers that paid business select prices or $40 to board in the first 15 positions), I will actually be boarding after 59 people have already gone on the plane.

 

I have called customer service many times complaining of the wheelchair policy. It is very unfair to have all these people board and then have those with positions they have paid extra for, then be allowed to board. I feel the wheelchair passengers should board in their proper order. If this was the case, we would have far less wheelchair passengers to contend with. It has become a perk that has caught on with alarming frequency.

 

Now, when I travel with my husband (who needs to utilize a wheelchair), I do not pay for Early check-in, and board first. Even knowing I can take advantage of this unfair practice, I realize how ludicrous it is.

 

Sounds like you fly on the "Miracle" flights. Common for flights going to certain locations to have a planeload of people in wheelchairs waiting to board early. Documented Miracles happen onboard the plane; when it lands, no one needs a wheelchair to debark - they easily walk off. Flights going to Florida and India are known for the miracles ;)

[FlyerTalker]

Sounds like you fly on the "Miracle" flights. Common for flights going to certain locations to have a planeload of people in wheelchairs waiting to board early. Documented Miracles happen onboard the plane; when it lands, no one needs a wheelchair to debark - they easily walk off. Flights going to Florida and India are known for the miracles ;)

Sometimes referred to as the "Lourdes" flights. NYC to MIA/FLL/PBI are notorious.

 

Or maybe there is a faith healer prowling the aisles. ;)

[grandma*knows*best]

This is not always true. I just got off a flight yesterday and was seated in one of the exit rows. Across the aisle, there was a man sitting in the aisle seat of the exit row with the most leg room. The middle seat and window seat were both open. A man decided he was going to sit in the window seat and he called for his wife who had just passed to come back. The man who was sitting in the aisle seat stated that the middle seat was saved for his wife who still had not boarded the plane. It almost came to a fist fight as the second guy stated that there was no saving of seats allowed. He was 100% in the right. The flight attendant was standing right there and did nothing to stop it or even tell the first guy that he could not save the seat. The second guy's wife finally gave in and said they should just find another two seats. The flight attendant did absolutely nothing. I wonder what would have happened if the second man's wife did not talk her husband out of sitting there.

 

Can you blame the FAs for not getting involved? They must deal with this nonsense every day. As long as Southwest refuses to have a seat saving policy, what are the FAs supposed to do?

[ducklite]

Can you blame the FAs for not getting involved? They must deal with this nonsense every day. As long as Southwest refuses to have a seat saving policy, what are the FAs supposed to do?

 

 

Call in the CRO.

[dsrdsrdsr]

I am not really against handicapped persons ...

 

Big of you.

[Algebralovr]

SW could easily fix this by taking all preboards to the back of the plane. The exception would be for truly non-ambulatory who arrive in their personal wheelchair. Not scooter, because anyone who rides a scooter has the ability to take a few steps. No airport wheelchair. Personal wheelchair.

 

Somewhere I also saw that an able-bodied attendant must go with the wheel chair bound person. Maybe for cruises or at least tenders -- can't remember. If non-mobiles had to have an attendant that could help them believe me they would not fly often. I am not really against handicapped persons -- it is tough but just like handicapped parking spaces some folks do not mind taking advantage of the situation and making it hard for everyone. It is not easy to regulate such things either and insensitive and crass often goes hand in hand with a demanding personality and loud voice.:rolleyes:

 

We had an interesting summer, including flying to Europe and back. My DD was in a wheelchair, plus we traveled with my 70 yr old mother. We arrived at O'Hare with DD in a WC. She could take a few steps, but just a few. Because of the WC, she was pre-boarded. Since we were traveling as a family, they pre-boarded the entire family. She made her way down the aisle to her seat with assistance, and the rest of us get her bag put away.

 

When we arrived in Zurich to transfer planes, her chair was waiting for us along with a pusher to get us across the airport. Since our connection was a smaller plane, she would have had to climb about 20 steps to get in. That just wasn't going to happen. They transported the entire family out to the plane, raised the lifter to get us in, and we were on board before anyone else.

 

There is a reason to pre-board the individual in the WC and an assistant. We had assigned seating though.

 

Upon our return, through Toronto, we learned that there were 21 passengers on the plane who needed WC assistance. One was using crutches and had a leg in a cast. My DD had her own WC. The rest were primarily older, non-English speaking, or at least with limited English. The pusher said it had become a real problem, and they don't have enough staff or wheelchairs for all who want them when that happens.

 

I have to say that requiring one to bring their own WC would certainly limit the number of people wanting assistance, but would create another set of problems. I love the idea of saying they can board with families or in their own earned A position on Southwest. I'm starting to fly enough that I am likely to get an A position at T-24, although it certainly isn't guaranteed.

 

I still don't think a lawsuit is the answer to the EBCI though. The terms are written out, and nowhere does it say you'll get an A.

[Algebralovr]

Link to paperwork filed for those who want to wade through it:

 

https://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/robert_j_zammetti_et_al_v_southwest_airlines_co_et_al__cacdce-14-01792__0011-0.pdf

 

I like all the included nonsense about no checked bag fees.

 

Wow! I waded through it all and wow!

 

First, everyone knows there is n o such thing as a free lunch. The bags don't fly free, they include the cost in the cost of the ticket. You either pay with the ticket or you pay at the airport when you check a bag (unless you fly someone like Alegent who charges for everything).

 

Similarly, they reward their frequent customers with earlier boarding. This is listed on the website. I had to laugh about the statement of someone buying a ticket 30 minutes before boarding and getting a better position. They really wanted the land - side agent to re-issue boarding numbers because of a canceled passenger? Wow!

[Longislanderluvs2cruise]

Just because they did nothing doesn't mean if they had been asked to intervene they would have agreed with the seated passenger. If this happens in the future, demand the seats and demand the CRO be boarded to sort it out. I guarantee you will get the seats you wish to sit in.

 

I actually said something to the flight attendant and she just stood there and did absolutely nothing. The first guy was very arrogant and determined that HIS wife was going to sit in the middle seat and not someone else. In addition, he had his daughter sitting in the row behind him saving an aisle seat for his son who was with his wife. They both boarded towards the end. Obviously he played the game by paying for 2 early bird seats and the other 2 must have been towards the end of group C. He was a very nasty guy and my guess is the FA did not want to become involved.

[hawk/hornfan]

Although 3 hrs away at MDW this the reason I do not fly SWA. I will pay extra to have an assigned seat than put up with this bull crap!

[doglover214]

Of course, I have no problems with WC passengers being able to board first to allow more time, but because Southwest does not asssign seats they get the favored seats. That's what makes me crazy.

I have called a number of times regarding this policy, but it falls on deaf ears.

[slidergirl]

Algebralovr: I've done the lift thing, too. Mine was a catering truck (!) up to the rear doors of a 777 at CDG!!! I was temporarily WC-bound due to shattering my leg on that trip and was going home for surgery on it (I wasn't given crutches at the hospital in Italy and I could not put ANY weight on that leg). Taking 2 days and 4 flights (and an overnight at the Sheraton CDG) to get home and having to stay in the WC for 3 weeks post-surgery at home (in my 3 story house) gave me a totally new respect and empathy for anyone who must be in a wheelchair at all times.

That said: I believe the entire family should not be boarded with the person "needing extra time." One family member should be enough to get the non-ambulatory person settled and bags stowed. Everyone else should wait for their Zone/boarding number. This should go for any airline.

[dsrdsrdsr]

That said: I believe the entire family should not be boarded with the person "needing extra time." One family member should be enough to get the non-ambulatory person settled and bags stowed. Everyone else should wait for their Zone/boarding number. This should go for any airline.

That would mean setting a deliberate policy that wheelchair users must not travel with the rest of their family - they can sit with father or mother, not both; or with one child, while spouse looks after the other; or with one son while the other sits on his own somewhere else.

 

Which may be a policy that has to be done, if there's a good purpose to it. But if the only purpose is to allow a few passengers the right to sit one row further forward than they otherwise would, is that really worth deliberately splitting families?

[Brighton Line]

Very interesting thread creep since my Mom just called me to ask what she should do traveling by herself.

My Mom is moving from Boise (BOI) to Palm Beach Gardens (PBI), I was lucky to find a single connection flight on united thru IAH (most reasonable routing need 3 planes) but on RJ's.

Anyway, Mom on occasion needs a walker. She won't know as the condition she has she can wake up one morning and need it (balance issues) and any other day not need it. She already shipped her car and is driving a rental so she needs to return the car, has two checked bags, two carry ons and the walker and a change in terminals at IAH.

Coincidence that I was reading this thread when she called?

United told her to contact Hertz about assistance from the rental return to the air plane. Hertz said that when she arrives they will call for wheelchair assistance and all will be taken care of.

I wonder if United even marked the reservation as needing assistance?

I know my Mom (K-12 Teacher 30 years) will follow the rules. She will be first on but she will wait for assistance to deplane, no "Miracle" happening here, though I wish and will her be on the look out for any airborne faith healer!!

 

Just wanted to share the coincidence....

FWIW

[doglover214]

Again, on any other airline, allowing a WC passenger to embark first is never a big deal. They sit in their assigned seat no matter where it is.

 

The problem is with Southwest that charges for early boarding and then allows 50-60 people to board before you!

[ducklite]

Algebralovr: I've done the lift thing, too. Mine was a catering truck (!) up to the rear doors of a 777 at CDG!!! I was temporarily WC-bound due to shattering my leg on that trip and was going home for surgery on it (I wasn't given crutches at the hospital in Italy and I could not put ANY weight on that leg). Taking 2 days and 4 flights (and an overnight at the Sheraton CDG) to get home and having to stay in the WC for 3 weeks post-surgery at home (in my 3 story house) gave me a totally new respect and empathy for anyone who must be in a wheelchair at all times.

That said: I believe the entire family should not be boarded with the person "needing extra time." One family member should be enough to get the non-ambulatory person settled and bags stowed. Everyone else should wait for their Zone/boarding number. This should go for any airline.

 

Agree 100%. Obviously a little common sense needs to prevail, if the person in the wheelchair is traveling with their spouse and a child who is 12 or under, they should all board together.

[Bowie MeMe]

Although 3 hrs away at MDW this the reason I do not fly SWA. I will pay extra to have an assigned seat than put up with this bull crap!

 

Oh if it was only Southwest. On a flight to Rio from MIA, I paid for an assigned aisle seat on a legacy flight. I waited for group 5 to board just as nice as you please. When I got to my assigned seat a mother and 2 elementary age children had boarded family or in an earlier group and occupied my seat. She refused to move, she played the little children card, she cried, she yelled, she told the people all around us that I was being mean and that she could not and would not leave her baby (10 year old) to ride alone though I offered to "help" supervise the boy or the girl. The mother demanded that I change seats with her and her seat was last row middle -- bad as it gets for a long flight. I held my ground, I purchased the seat for extra money. I was embarrassed and had to stand in the aisle in front of the whole plane for over 1/2 an hour while she whaled and carried on to both FA and the crowd in the seats around us. Finally the CRO came on and told her to move or get off. She had 2 minutes to decide as plane was now late. The woman then went and begged two people in the back to trade seats and the FA promised them if they would she would make sure they had a great trip (free booze). FA would not even talk to me and barely acknowledged that I had the seat assigned from when I bought the ticket 6 months prior -- I was declared a trouble maker. No apology or kind word.

I think I like SWA boarding better -- with EB I have always had some choice of seat -- with assigned seats if the seat is broken (happened once and really uncomfortable as seat would not lock upright on one side) or some other fool decides they want your seat there is not any choice at all. And you pay for extra for assigned seating. FA will intervene and keep folks who have not paid for economy plus or business class out of those sections though I have seen some world class dramatic scenes in the aisles for folks who declared it wouldn't hurt anything for them to just move up. Company does have policy on that. With group seating- aisle seat is usually the last group allowed on with the problem of no bin space and a long wait for the earlier groups to take the bin space and get seated. NO WAY WORKS BUT SOME SEEM A LITTLE BETTER THAN OTHERS.

:D

Edited December 3, 2014 by Bowie MeMe

[ducklite]

I wouldn't have felt at all embarrassed. In fact I would have loudly told her that I had purchased the seat six months earlier, and if she actually cared about her children she wouldn't have been cheap and would have done the same. I also would not have offered to watch her kid. Stupid parents shouldn't be rewarded for poor judgement.

[FawnRiver]

I wouldn't have felt at all embarrassed. In fact I would have loudly told her that I had purchased the seat six months earlier, and if she actually cared about her children she wouldn't have been cheap and would have done the same. I also would not have offered to watch her kid. Stupid parents shouldn't be rewarded for poor judgement.

Totally agree, we've been lucky thus far to not have run into that kind of situation (we always pay for assigned seating in advance) but if/when I do, that person is likely going to wish they had never boarded that plane. And as to the FA, they are there to enforce the rules even if they don't like them, they had no reason to treat a passenger poorly for standing up for their rights, especially in the face of such blantant stupidity.

Some people think that they are entitled to what they want and don't have to pay or follow the rules like the rest of us.

Edited December 3, 2014 by FawnRiver
addition

[hawk/hornfan]

Ducklite, I have had that happen too, a father and his young daughter sitting in our seats do to an aircraft change, and refused to move. Told FA, she said just a find a seat, it was a short flight and not worth the hassle, as we had just finished a cruise, she directed us to available seats which were better than we had, and we slept till deplaning. Sometimes you got to just pick your battles, but in your case it would be worth the confrontation.

Edited December 3, 2014 by hawk/hornfan