Jones Act dilemma - Please help!!

We would like to take the Star Princess 3-day repositioning cruise (May 9, 2019-May 12, 2019) from Los Angeles to Vancouver and then continue on Star Princess for the Alaskan cruise (May 12, 2019-May 19, 2019) from Vancouver to Seattle. We were told that this could not be done because it is a violation of the "passenger services act" since we would be starting and ending in a US port? Is this really true?

This would be a good itinerary for us, and we would hate to lose out on this. Any help, comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated from my cruisecritic friends. Thank you.

This is from Carnival Cruise Lines FAQ: The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of Non-U.S registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships. Note: Puerto Rico and the U.S Virgin Islands (St. Thomas; St. Croix; St. John) are not in the category of U.S ports under this act.

The exception to this rule is if the itinerary includes a 'distant foreign port'. South America and the ABC Islands (Aruba-Bonaire-Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports. Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands do notqualify as distant foreign ports.

We would like to take the Star Princess 3-day repositioning cruise (May 9, 2019-May 12, 2019) from Los Angeles to Vancouver and then continue on Star Princess for the Alaskan cruise (May 12, 2019-May 19, 2019) from Vancouver to Seattle. We were told that this could not be done because it is a violation of the "passenger services act" since we would be starting and ending in a US port? Is this really true?

This would be a good itinerary for us, and we would hate to lose out on this. Any help, comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated from my cruisecritic friends. Thank you.

As noted, quite true.

Even though you're looking to book 2 different cruises, the PVSA (relates to passenger transport - Jones Act relates to cargo transport) only looks at where a passenger got on the ship and got off the ship, regardless of how many individual cruises there were.

The only options are only doing one cruise, or the other. Another possibility, take the first cruise on one ship and the second cruise on another. Often that's a possibility.

Yes it is true, but there is a great and easy solution:

Take the Star Princess May 9 - May 12, then disembark in Vancouver and get on the Holland America Westerdam or Noordam on May 12 from Vancouver or even better, spend one night at the Pan Pacific Hotel and board RCCL's Ovation of the Seas on May 13 for an 11 night Alaskan cruise.

Sorry... I meant Passenger Vessel Services Act. Not Jones Act.

Sorry... I meant Passenger Vessel Services Act. Not Jones Act.

Yes, I know, but the answer and solution are still the same.

Sorry... I meant Passenger Vessel Services Act. Not Jones Act.

Suite Traveler gave you the fix to your situation.

The law has been around roughly 100 years.

Only a U.S flagged cruise ship can carrry guests, or cargo from U.s port to US. port without a stop at near or distant foreign port.

I am confused about this. Princess offers Alaska cruises to and from San Francisco which stop in Victoria, BC to deal with the provision to stop at a foreign port. How is the OP's situation different than the SF cruises? Doesn't the Vancouver stop cover this rule? Or am I missing a key detail?

I am confused about this. Princess offers Alaska cruises to and from San Francisco which stop in Victoria, BC to deal with the provision to stop at a foreign port. How is the OP's situation different than the SF cruises? Doesn't the Vancouver stop cover this rule? Or am I missing a key detail?

This is a great question and the difference is Victoria. Do not ask me why (I have no clue) but under the PVSA.....Victoria is considered a "distant foreign port" whereas Vancouver is treated like a domestic port. That is why many cruises between Vancouver (or Seattle) and Alaska make a stop in Victoria...even if its for a very short duration. We were on one cruise that arrived at Victoria around 6pm and departed by 9:30....but that still meets the requirement of stopping at a distant foreign port.

Hank

I am confused about this. Princess offers Alaska cruises to and from San Francisco which stop in Victoria, BC to deal with the provision to stop at a foreign port. How is the OP's situation different than the SF cruises? Doesn't the Vancouver stop cover this rule? Or am I missing a key detail?

Yes the detail you are missing is that the cruiser would be embarking at one port and debarking at another. That would not be allowed without a distant foriegn port stop, for which Vancouver does not qualify. The SF cruise is closed loop so any foreign port works.

Just to clarify, is the "They" who told you you can't do it Princess? If not..... check with them.

This is a great question and the difference is Victoria. Do not ask me why (I have no clue) but under the PVSA.....Victoria is considered a "distant foreign port" whereas Vancouver is treated like a domestic port. That is why many cruises between Vancouver (or Seattle) and Alaska make a stop in Victoria...even if its for a very short duration. We were on one cruise that arrived at Victoria around 6pm and departed by 9:30....but that still meets the requirement of stopping at a distant foreign port.

 

Hank

Sorry Hank but you got this one wrong. Victoria only works for closed loop cruises. The problem for the OP is that his start and stop are 2 different US ports

Yes the detail you are missing is that the cruiser would be embarking at one port and debarking at another. That would not be allowed without a distant foriegn port stop, for which Vancouver does not qualify. The SF cruise is closed loop so any foreign port works.

If the cruiser boards in Seattle, for example, and makes final disembark in Seattle, the ship has not brought the cruiser, anywhere when all is said and done He /she is back where they started and have not been transported according to PVSA.

If the cruiser boards in Seattle, for example, and makes final disembark in Seattle, the ship has not brought the cruiser, anywhere when all is said and done He /she is back where they started and have not been transported according to PVSA.

Again you need to read the original post. He is trying to board in LA and disembark in Seattle. That is why this does not work if he uses the same ship.

I in fact did a similar trip years ago . Boarded in Seattle and ended in SF. The difference is that I switched ships in Vancouver, thus I was not viewed as continuing on a single cruise. Even though the OP would be booking it as 2 cruises on a back to back, the law looks at it as a single continuation on the same ship and thus the PVSA forbids it.

I am confused about this. Princess offers Alaska cruises to and from San Francisco which stop in Victoria, BC to deal with the provision to stop at a foreign port. How is the OP's situation different than the SF cruises? Doesn't the Vancouver stop cover this rule? Or am I missing a key detail?

This is a great question and the difference is Victoria. Do not ask me why (I have no clue) but under the PVSA.....Victoria is considered a "distant foreign port" whereas Vancouver is treated like a domestic port. That is why many cruises between Vancouver (or Seattle) and Alaska make a stop in Victoria...even if its for a very short duration. We were on one cruise that arrived at Victoria around 6pm and departed by 9:30....but that still meets the requirement of stopping at a distant foreign port.

 

Hank

The difference is - in order for a foreign flagged ship to embark passengers in one US port and debark them in a different US port, the ship must stop at a DISTANT foreign port. A distant foreign port is described (in the PVSA) as any port NOT " in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, orthe West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands ofthe Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)."

Cruises that start and end in the SAME US port only require a foreign port stop (any foreign port, near or distant).

Under PVSA there are three possibilities:

1. The cruise starts and/or ends in a non-US port. In that case PVSA does not apply. This covers the one way cruises that go from Vancouver to Whittier and back.

2. Cruise that start and end in the same US port. These must go to any foreign port in order to be allowed under PVSA. This is why cruise that are round trip Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles will stop in Victoria, BC, Canada as part of the Alaskan cruise.

3. Cruises that start in one US port and end in another. These would have to call on a "distant" foreign port. Eligible ports would be The ABC Islands, South America, Asia, Africa & Europe. Clearly they are too far off course, so no Alaskan cruise does this.

Again you need to read the original post. He is trying to board in LA and disembark in Seattle. That is why this does not work if he uses the same ship.

I in fact did a similar trip years ago . Boarded in Seattle and ended in SF. The difference is that I switched ships in Vancouver, thus I was not viewed as continuing on a single cruise. Even though the OP would be booking it as 2 cruises on a back to back, the law looks at it as a single continuation on the same ship and thus the PVSA forbids it.

Yes, I ' get it'. :)

OP, post #4 from Suite traveler hits the nail on the head.

This is a great question and the difference is Victoria. Do not ask me why (I have no clue) but under the PVSA.....Victoria is considered a "distant foreign port" whereas Vancouver is treated like a domestic port.

 

Hank

Absolutely not. There are no distant foreign ports in North America. Victoria is used as a Foreign port for closed loop cruises out of Seattle. Closed loop must hit a foreign port, any foreign port. Cruises that start and end in two different US ports must hit a Foreign DISTANT port.

OP, sorry, your cruise is illegal on the same ship. The route can be done but you'd have to switch ships

Thanks to those of you who educated me on how this works. I now understand that Victoria doesn't qualify as a true foreign port, but does qualify for closed loop cruises. There are so many nuances in these laws that they are often difficult to keep straight.

Thanks to those of you who educated me on how this works. I now understand that Victoria doesn't qualify as a true foreign port, but does qualify for closed loop cruises. There are so many nuances in these laws that they are often difficult to keep straight.

It is a foreign port unless the US have invaded ;) but it's not a foreign distant port. Useless for those one ways between two different US ports.

Thanks to those of you who educated me on how this works. I now understand that Victoria doesn't qualify as a true foreign port, but does qualify for closed loop cruises. There are so many nuances in these laws that they are often difficult to keep straight.

The simplest thing to remember is that a distant foriegn port must be outside of north or Central America. That is why ships transiting the canal form LA or SF to FLL or Miami stop in Cartagena or one of the ABC islands. Those islands are classified as being in South America and so they work.

They used to make an exception to the law for a short one or two night "cruise to nowhere", but that exception has ended, and hence so have those cruises...:(