Big ships biggest failure, or, ship within a ship: haven: NCL's worst decision.

A financial fiaso as in the steerage passengers (aka non-haven) with experience won't go back on the ship. I can sail on the Breakaway from NY, or for that matter any of the mega-ships for 30% less than I can the Gem but I won't, and judging by the last minute deals, the Gem is always sold out while the Breakaway has empty rooms.

 

You are correct the dawn doesn't have a haven but the did remove its spinnaker lounge to make way for ultra-suites. This was the pre-cursor to the Haven concept: Making a 2-class ship.

So the Haven takes up 30% of the space, but all 4000 passengers are outside of it???

They don't make their money on the 'steerage' (as you called them) passengers. Maybe they recoup costs, but it's the $10,000 / week rooms where the profit lies.

There's a NEED for a 2-class ship, as evidenced by the Haven sailing full most of the time. If they didn't have the Haven, I'd be looking for a different line. (Not including my test of MSC later this year - I'm just curious about it).

Stephen

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So the Haven takes up 30% of the space, but all 4000 passengers are outside of it???

 

 

They don't make their money on the 'steerage' (as you called them) passengers. Maybe they recoup costs, but it's the $10,000 / week rooms where the profit lies.

 

 

There's a NEED for a 2-class ship, as evidenced by the Haven sailing full most of the time. If they didn't have the Haven, I'd be looking for a different line. (Not including my test of MSC later this year - I'm just curious about it).

 

 

 

Stephen

 

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the profit comes from the casino/gambling, and the folks that pay for their drinks.

"On Norwegian Breakaway, there are 2,014 cabins in 11 main categories, including 42 cabins in The Haven," Those 80 something passenger in the haven are not making them big bucks (run the numbers, 42*10000=0.4 Million, 2014*3000=6.0 Million,) but yes, 4000 people people are in 2/3rds of the ship and the the 42 cabins for the haven guests get the whole ship including the 30% extra. That is exactly why I won't go on a 4000+ ship again. Even in the Haven, you are trapped on an overcrowded ship (but at least you can hide in haven only areas.)

Sorry, If I had 10k for a weeks vacation, I'd be on the Queen Mary or a super luxury ship, with my tuxedo.

The problem is the 1972 regular cabins, not the Haven.

We only sail either Haven on the megas or on DCL in a regular (family) balcony. The big DCL ships (Fantasy and Dream) are literally almost the same exact size as the NCL megas, but only have 1250 cabins. They both have a maximum passenger qty of around 4000. The big difference is the smaller jam packed cabins filled with all those adults on NCL. On DCL, the actual sailing number of passengers rarely gets close to the full 4000 because they don’t usually hit the average 3.2 number of passengers required per cabin. (Yes, lots of families for Disney, but we travel as just two adults for example). Because of this, (and because the kids always pack into the kids clubs), the public areas of DCL always feel less crowded. So we don’t do Conceirge in DCL.

On NCL, we loved the aft penthouses on the Jewel class. No Haven access, just the bigger room and the perks, and that was perfect. On our one trip on the Breakaway, we only liked it because of the escape of the Haven. WAAAAY too many people and way too overcrowded in the public areas. The extra 750 NCL cabins over DCL leads to ~1500 more adults, and that just packs EVERYTHING. If you want to also factor in the lost room from the Haven areas, you can. But I think the extra people are the bigger difference.

Of course DCL charges close to Haven prices at times, but that’s a separate issue...

The problem is the 1972 regular cabins, not the Haven.

 

We only sail either Haven on the megas or on DCL in a regular (family) balcony. The big DCL ships (Fantasy and Dream) are literally almost the same exact size as the NCL megas, but only have 1250 cabins. They both have a maximum passenger qty of around 4000. The big difference is the smaller jam packed cabins filled with all those adults on NCL. On DCL, the actual sailing number of passengers rarely gets close to the full 4000 because they don’t usually hit the average 3.2 number of passengers required per cabin. (Yes, lots of families for Disney, but we travel as just two adults for example). Because of this, (and because the kids always pack into the kids clubs), the public areas of DCL always feel less crowded. So we don’t do Conceirge in DCL.

 

 

On NCL, we loved the aft penthouses on the Jewel class. No Haven access, just the bigger room and the perks, and that was perfect. On our one trip on the Breakaway, we only liked it because of the escape of the Haven. WAAAAY too many people and way too overcrowded in the public areas. The extra 750 NCL cabins over DCL leads to ~1500 more adults, and that just packs EVERYTHING. If you want to also factor in the lost room from the Haven areas, you can. But I think the extra people are the bigger difference.

 

Of course DCL charges close to Haven prices at times, but that’s a separate issue...

No doubt about it. its all about the number of people. I only mention the haven as an issue because sectioning off 1/3 of the ship for some 200 passengers only makes the situation for the other 4000 people that much worse, but you are correct, even with the additional 30% of space that the haven uses, you still would be well beyond the point of comfort in the Breakaway.

No doubt about it. its all about the number of people. I only mention the haven as an issue because sectioning off 1/3 of the ship for some 200 passengers only makes the situation for the other 4000 people that much worse, but you are correct, even with the additional 30% of space that the haven uses, you still would be well beyond the point of comfort in the Breakaway.

You just have to look at RCCL's Quantum class to see what "could" be where the Haven is. I think that is a better approach, much more general passenger space and the solarium is damn near a Haven without the exclusive price tag. This is exactly what was crossing my mind when on the Escape, in the Haven 2 months ago. I'm thinking "Man, Oasis and Quantum have the solarium up here, with a much better view, no kids, the ships are less crowded, and you don't have to pay 3X the price for it!"

If this is true then where is the bridge going

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The Haven on BA/GA isn't just for the staterooms within the Haven. The H9, H7, and H6 staterooms also have Haven access.

So you have only been on 1 smaller ship and 1 mega ship. You didn't like that mega ship so all mega ships on NCL are terrible? Seems like a poorly thought out conclusion. Personally, I am not a fan of the Breakaway class and much prefer the Breakaway Plus class. Maybe try another class?

So, are you saying that the Encore at 4,200 and coming out in 2019 will be the last of their mega ships?

 

NCL doesn't have anything that I can find planned for 2020, but the other major lines do and out of 8 ships planned, five are between 4,100 to 5,200 passengers.

From a future cruise talk on the Star last week it was shown that NCL will be taking a break from new ships in 2020 and 2021. From 2022-25 , a new 3000 person ship will be delivered yearly from their Italy shipyard.

I totally agree. Love the gem. Hate the BA. Amazingly though I loved the getaway. Why?

We cruised during high school and under spring break this year and as seasoned cruisers didn't feel the need to do certain venues such as bliss and headliners.

However the beauty of sailing when it's mostly families is that the casino...while still disgusting with its smoke...is much less crowded as parents are either with the kids or making family memories Plus the reality is most parents of young kids these days just do not smoke They realize the danger

Also in spice it was not smoky either

The pool is ridiculous and I never use them or hot tubs on ships any longer but spice has the waterfall. Plenty of chairs..just look around the side corner...and lots of sun and nice people

Of course my kids were 18/22/23 so we could all enjoy

Parents of younger kids do just as well on this ship with the slides ropes course etc

Plenty to keep busy and 4 great beach ports

The western Carib on the getaway is a win win situation. Even during the week after Easter with zero college kids on board Lots of high school seniors but they all live in a bubble and rarely notice anyone who isn t taking a selfie

I'm lucky. My high schooler turned 18 right before the cruise so spice it was for us!!!

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This thread just sounds like Haven-envy.

This is NOT Titanic era cruising. ANYONE can purchase Haven suites.

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My last cruise was porthole obstructed view, including alcohol, specialty restaurants, taxes, mandara spa (for 1) all gratuities (alcohol, restaurants and room) for two: 10 days- $2750. I'll take that 3-5x a year over 1x a year for the haven in a cold second.

And I am just the opposite.

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From personal experience, I would never cruise a NCL Mega ship without being in the Haven!

 

 

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Ditto

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Ditto

 

 

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Yeah. Me too. Maybe because my philosophy will never be something like what I’ve seen here “ the worst day on a cruise is better than any day in the office”. I don’t know if it’s just that I’ve had some great days in the office (great people, exciting work at least at times) or that I’m just not a big vacationer that makes me feel that way ( probs a combo).

In any event, I wouldn’t even consider going on a mega cruise except in the Haven which I can afford in part because I just have no desire to go away from home all that often. Look for my summer Bliss review which I’ve already decided to call “ A Homebody goes to Haven”

My last cruise was porthole obstructed view, including alcohol, specialty restaurants, taxes, mandara spa (for 1) all gratuities (alcohol, restaurants and room) for two: 10 days- $2750. I'll take that 3-5x a year over 1x a year for the haven in a cold second.

I agree!

This thread just sounds like Haven-envy.

 

This is NOT Titanic era cruising. ANYONE can purchase Haven suites.

 

 

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If ANYONE can purchase them then why would you think anybody was envious?

This thread just sounds like Haven-envy.

 

This is NOT Titanic era cruising. ANYONE can purchase Haven suites.

 

 

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Not at all. Just think the OP doesn’t like the crowded conditions on the mega ships.

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Not at all. Just think the OP doesn’t like the crowded conditions on the mega ships.

 

 

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Take out the Haven and fill that same space with "regular rooms at regular rates" it would be even more crowded. They arenot going to give up that income to just create more common area.

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Which is reason #2 I don’t book on mega ships.

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A financial fiaso as in the steerage passengers (aka non-haven) with experience won't go back on the ship. I can sail on the Breakaway from NY, or for that matter any of the mega-ships for 30% less than I can the Gem but I won't, and judging by the last minute deals, the Gem is always sold out while the Breakaway has empty rooms.

 

You are correct the dawn doesn't have a haven but the did remove its spinnaker lounge to make way for ultra-suites. This was the pre-cursor to the Haven concept: Making a 2-class ship.

Not sure what you mean by ultra suites. To me that means better than what was on there before. Marketing (IMO) created DOS on deck 12 which are a higher category but routinely sell for or less than a S4 on Star/Dawn. The other suites were actually new class of new category suites that are actually at entry level suite prices. So I don't see anything ultra about the suites added on 12 and the area is accessible by anyone. There are even inside rooms on 12 plus a library and a couple meeting rooms.

I wouldn’t say these mega ships from NCL, RCCL, Celebrity, CCL, Princess, etc are a failure. I personally like them. They are chock full of things to do in addition to the ports they frequent.

I LOVE (absolutely LOVE) the Haven. I’ll throw the Yacht Club at MSC into that mix. I LOVE it, too.

So, I suppose what I’m saying, I love the hustle-bustle of these mega ships and want ALL that they offer, too. I also like coming back to the confines of the Suites.

I’m sailing the GEM in an Aft-Penthouse Suite in a couple of weeks. It will be the first time I’ve sailed a ship the size of the GEM since I did the CCL Conquest, if you can call that a small ship. I’m wondering if I’ll miss NCL’s newer restaurants as a result. Or, if it will truly feel less crowded? No matter, I know I’ll enjoy it.

I like the “hustle and bustle” of the “away” ships. Aside from the $10 watch sales, they flow where they don’t feel crowded, regardless of their size. I find the RCCL mega ships to be too crowded for comfort. But, that doesn’t keep me from sailing them (sailed the Harmony last summer).

That said, it sounds like the OP would be happier on a HAL ship? Maybe step up to Seabourn or Viking?

We’ve been on all of the Jewel class, plus Dream, Sun, Escape, Getaway, and Epic, and have enjoyed them all. We book for the destinations. Being on a ship is an added benefit. Haven’t been disappointed yet.

The only big ship I’ve been on has been the Epic and I’m not a fan. I think the Dawn Class and Jewel Class are the perfect size.

Having been on the Escape and Away ships, both in the Haven and not, we enjoyed our cruises on them as much as we have on the smaller ships. Yes, a Spinnaker-like space on these big ships would be great, but—at least for us—this and crowded pool decks aren’t a big deal.

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This is of course an editorial/ opinion, but I'm looking for a discussion on the matter. I've only sailed NCL, and at that only 2 ships, the Gem, a 2000 passenger ship, and the Breakaway, a 4000 passenger ship. My first cruise was on the Gem and we loved it. ...

 

(edited down to save space-- and because reading it once... was ... well ... perhaps once too many.)

 

I've also talked with the planners of NCL. After this mega-ship, the new ones are being scaled back to 3000 passenger ships if you look at what the 2020 and on ships that are being planned are.

Congratulations! With your astute analysis, what position has NCL offered you:

As your first order of business, stop by Accounting & Finance. You may pick up a couple of tips to save you embarrassment in your executive meetings.