Beware future cruise deposits

I understand your reasoning but it doesn’t explain why Brits can book cruises with NCL, RCCL and Disney with US TAs. I think it is more to do with Princess (and other lines within Canival Corp) protecting the commission of UK TAs - regional pricing they call it.

Keep in mind that Princess, as a former part of P&O UK has a substantial corporate presence in the UK, unlike NCL, RCCL, and Disney. If you look at the front page of the CCL 10k filings you will note that in addition to Carnival Corporation, Panama you also see Carnival PLC, England and Wales.

Compared to RCCL, Liberia NCLH, Bermuda, DIS, Delaware, USA

The UK travel protection laws clearly state that they apply to any trips that are marketed and sold in the UK. As such Princess has to make it certain in its policies that US terms are not being offered for sale in the UK and that UK travel protections do not apply. By restricting purchase of cruises to the UK TA and website for anyone with a UK address they make it clear that if someone goes around the rules and purchases in the US, usually with a US address, that UK travel protections do not apply.

The other cruise lines also do this to some degree offering different terms on their UK web site, but clearly CCL companies with both the corporate incorporation and the cruise departures from the UK could be considered to have a higher hurdle in establishing separation between cruises sold inside and outside of the UK.

Keep in mind that Princess, as a former part of P&O UK has a substantial corporate presence in the UK, unlike NCL, RCCL, and Disney. If you look at the front page of the CCL 10k filings you will note that in addition to Carnival Corporation, Panama you also see Carnival PLC, England and Wales.

 

Compared to RCCL, Liberia NCLH, Bermuda, DIS, Delaware, USA

 

The UK travel protection laws clearly state that they apply to any trips that are marketed and sold in the UK. As such Princess has to make it certain in its policies that US terms are not being offered for sale in the UK and that UK travel protections do not apply. By restricting purchase of cruises to the UK TA and website for anyone with a UK address they make it clear that if someone goes around the rules and purchases in the US, usually with a US address, that UK travel protections do not apply.

 

The other cruise lines also do this to some degree offering different terms on their UK web site, but clearly CCL companies with both the corporate incorporation and the cruise departures from the UK could be considered to have a higher hurdle in establishing separation between cruises sold inside and outside of the UK.

I agree with what you say but would add that the UK Package Tour regs 1992 pre date, by quite a period, Carnival Corp’s decision to ring fence bookings. This would lead me to believe there were other factors at play. It’s a good number of years since I read the rationale which prompted my previous post - I’ll try to find it.

Uhh… I'll stick with CCL having a better handle on costs management unless you can suggest why Miami

should give two figs about UK TA's commissions over US TA's commissions?

Prior to when the ‘rule’ came in that underpinned regional pricing, UK TAs were very vocal because UK cruisers were taking advantage of price promotions and different booking conditions offered in the US. The response by CCL was to geographically ring fence bookings. They were clearly concerned about the TA structure in the UK and ‘gave a fig’. There were other factors, but at the time the TA element was quoted as a reason for the decision.

Why would it be in CCL’s interest to undermine TAs across the globe? Also they can manipulate pricing and offers to their advantage. As you are aware, booking conditions in the UK and elsewhere are very different to the US and Canada.

If the FCD is in AUD then it's to be used on a cruise paid for in AUD. It doesn't matter where the cruise is. Also how is an US TA which sells cruises in US$ use and FCD in AUD...

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If the FCD is in AUD then it's to be used on a cruise paid for in AUD. It doesn't matter where the cruise is. Also how is an US TA which sells cruises in US$ use and FCD in AUD...

 

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i think what you wrote may be closer to whats happened.

if the op bought $AUD FCDs, they have to book in australian dollars which a north american TA can't do.

i have $CAD FCDs and i must book in canadian with them. the only difference is that i am allowed to use a US travel agent who can charge me in canadian. i imagine they don't have access to book in australian dollars.

I agree with what you say but would add that the UK Package Tour regs 1992 pre date, by quite a period, Carnival Corp’s decision to ring fence bookings. This would lead me to believe there were other factors at play. It’s a good number of years since I read the rationale which prompted my previous post - I’ll try to find it.

Keep in mind that a decision to make a change in policy might be due to events well after the law was initially passed. They may have been operating just fine, only to have a claim or claims filed and then sometime well after the initial law was passed, decided that the higher level was needed. Not unusual with corporate legal departments to feel that something was adequate, only until tested in court. Also the law is not totally static, a corporation will review and change its policies based upon ongoing legal cases and corresponding interpretation of the law., even if not against them.

Prior to when the ‘rule’ came in that underpinned regional pricing, UK TAs were very vocal because UK cruisers were taking advantage of price promotions and different booking conditions offered in the US. The response by CCL was to geographically ring fence bookings. They were clearly concerned about the TA structure in the UK and ‘gave a fig’. There were other factors, but at the time the TA element was quoted as a reason for the decision.

Why would it be in CCL’s interest to undermine TAs across the globe? Also they can manipulate pricing and offers to their advantage. As you are aware, booking conditions in the UK and elsewhere are very different to the US and Canada.

Regulations, currency risk, contractual agreements, competitive factors, risk management, air fare cost, market penetration, capacity, etc.

A whole range of items impact pricing.

Keep in mind that cruise lines are not only competing with other cruise lines but also land vacations. As such the relative costs for someone to take land vacation in a given country will also impact the relative competitive price point.

I agree with what you say but would add that the UK Package Tour regs 1992 pre date, by quite a period, Carnival Corp’s decision to ring fence bookings. This would lead me to believe there were other factors at play. It’s a good number of years since I read the rationale which prompted my previous post - I’ll try to find it.

One other note. Carnival Corp did not have a UK corporate presence until 2003 when it acquired P&O Princesses Cruises PLC, which was then renamed to Carnival PLC. Apparently the agreement to maintain the UK corporate structure was part agreement when it did a hostile takeover of P&O Princess in order to negate an agreement between P&O Princess and Royal Caribbean. Thus enabling CCL to get those cruise lines instead of RCL.

My original posting has drawn out a lot of comments, some helpful but most not. However none have answered the question so I'll state the facts as simply as I can:

1. In May 2017 I booked a cruise from Singapore to Southampton through a TA in Australia where I was living.

2. In April 2018 while on that cruise I bought future cruise deposits during the Suez Canal transit, if that matters. As usual, Princess continually pushed the benefits of FCDs, valid for 2 years, to be used when you're ready, etc but particularly their wording in the letter/receipt: "When you have decided on your next cruise, please contact YOUR travel agent to arrange your booking...." I can find nothing in the terms and conditions nor in the marketing literature to suggest that I am prevented from using a US TA or limited to using an Australian TA (I've used US TAs, Australian TAs and Princess direct in the past) to use those deposits.

3. In July 2018 I negotiated a cruise through my US based TA who I have used before, stating that I wished to use those FCDs. Princess told them I had no current FCDs. I called Princess and they admitted that yes, I did have FCDs but they could only be used through Australian TAs.

Now, can anyone provide a sensible answer as to why the deposits can't be used. I'd need a contract lawyer to understand what some replies have suggested and it still wouldn't answer the question "how they can make a clear offer, have it accepted, refuse to honour it, and get away scott free?"

To those who suggested I'm being unethical in trying to book through a US TA, may I point out that the US TA (and others I know of) is authorised to make bookings from non-US residents.

To those who suggested I could just get my FCD returned or book with another cruise company, why should I. I bought the deposits in good faith and will use them in due course. In the current case, I found a cruise that suited us, at a convenient time, to our required itinerary, and negotiated the best offer which happened to be through my US TA. I will still book it without the benefits offered by future cruise deposits.

If you paid for your FCD in AUD then they can only be used to book a cruise in AUD. ie. with an AUS TA. We have the same problem in the UK, if we buy a FCD in GBP its got to be used on a cruise booked in GBP. Why would you think an AUD FCD could be used on a cruise booked in US$...

My original posting has drawn out a lot of comments, some helpful but most not. However none have answered the question so I'll state the facts as simply as I can:

 

1. In May 2017 I booked a cruise from Singapore to Southampton through a TA in Australia where I was living.

 

2. In April 2018 while on that cruise I bought future cruise deposits during the Suez Canal transit, if that matters. As usual, Princess continually pushed the benefits of FCDs, valid for 2 years, to be used when you're ready, etc but particularly their wording in the letter/receipt: "When you have decided on your next cruise, please contact YOUR travel agent to arrange your booking...." I can find nothing in the terms and conditions nor in the marketing literature to suggest that I am prevented from using a US TA or limited to using an Australian TA (I've used US TAs, Australian TAs and Princess direct in the past) to use those deposits.

3. In July 2018 I negotiated a cruise through my US based TA who I have used before, stating that I wished to use those FCDs. Princess told them I had no current FCDs. I called Princess and they admitted that yes, I did have FCDs but they could only be used through Australian TAs.

 

Now, can anyone provide a sensible answer as to why the deposits can't be used. I'd need a contract lawyer to understand what some replies have suggested and it still wouldn't answer the question "how they can make a clear offer, have it accepted, refuse to honour it, and get away scott free?"

 

To those who suggested I'm being unethical in trying to book through a US TA, may I point out that the US TA (and others I know of) is authorised to make bookings from non-US residents.

 

To those who suggested I could just get my FCD returned or book with another cruise company, why should I. I bought the deposits in good faith and will use them in due course. In the current case, I found a cruise that suited us, at a convenient time, to our required itinerary, and negotiated the best offer which happened to be through my US TA. I will still book it without the benefits offered by future cruise deposits.

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Based on today's (7/21/18) exchange rate your FCD which you paid $100 AUS is only worth about $75 USD. That would be good enough reason for Princess to reject it.

My original posting has drawn out a lot of comments, some helpful but most not. However none have answered the question so I'll state the facts as simply as I can:

 

1. In May 2017 I booked a cruise from Singapore to Southampton through a TA in Australia where I was living.

 

2. In April 2018 while on that cruise I bought future cruise deposits during the Suez Canal transit, if that matters. As usual, Princess continually pushed the benefits of FCDs, valid for 2 years, to be used when you're ready, etc but particularly their wording in the letter/receipt: "When you have decided on your next cruise, please contact YOUR travel agent to arrange your booking...." I can find nothing in the terms and conditions nor in the marketing literature to suggest that I am prevented from using a US TA or limited to using an Australian TA (I've used US TAs, Australian TAs and Princess direct in the past) to use those deposits.

3. In July 2018 I negotiated a cruise through my US based TA who I have used before, stating that I wished to use those FCDs. Princess told them I had no current FCDs. I called Princess and they admitted that yes, I did have FCDs but they could only be used through Australian TAs.

 

Now, can anyone provide a sensible answer as to why the deposits can't be used. I'd need a contract lawyer to understand what some replies have suggested and it still wouldn't answer the question "how they can make a clear offer, have it accepted, refuse to honour it, and get away scott free?"

 

To those who suggested I'm being unethical in trying to book through a US TA, may I point out that the US TA (and others I know of) is authorised to make bookings from non-US residents.

 

To those who suggested I could just get my FCD returned or book with another cruise company, why should I. I bought the deposits in good faith and will use them in due course. In the current case, I found a cruise that suited us, at a convenient time, to our required itinerary, and negotiated the best offer which happened to be through my US TA. I will still book it without the benefits offered by future cruise deposits.

The sensible answer as to why you can not use the FCD that you bought in Australian funds is because you are wanting to book with an American TA who can not use the FCD that is in Australian funds. This TA is booking your cruise in American funds there for your FCD HAS TO BE in American funds. This TA or Princess is not going to accept your FCD that was paid for by $100.00 Australian for a deposit that is suppose to be $100.00 US. I am Canadian and we are allowed by Princess to book our cruises in either Canadians funds or American funds. If I want to use a FCD I must have it in the correct funds to book my cruise. If I am wanting to book my cruise in American funds and use a FCD than I MUST have purchased my FCD in American funds. If Princess or the American TA accepts your FCD that you paid $100.00 Australian for a cruise that is being paid in american funds they are losing money.

Hope this is a sensible answer.

Book the cruise you wish to go on yourself online without a TA. Call Princess afterwards to apply the FCD. You can then go through the simple process of assigning the cruise to your TA if that's what you want. We just did this for three cruises ourselves but decided to assign the cruises to a large retail warehouse vendor because they offered us a very large sum in OBC.

Book the cruise you wish to go on yourself online without a TA. Call Princess afterwards to apply the FCD. You can then go through the simple process of assigning the cruise to your TA if that's what you want. We just did this for three cruises ourselves but decided to assign the cruises to a large retail warehouse vendor because they offered us a very large sum in OBC.

That's exactly what we do.

I just compared offers with 2 TAs vs. Princess.

It was an interesting comparison. The TA I've used a lot gave a minimal OBC and a modest price savings on one of the cruises. The "new" TA gave no OBC and no price savings. Princess beat the price for both of them on 2 out of 3.

Next step...check out the big box store.

The Future Cruise Deposit Form. At least the one downloadable from the web site, the same as I have seen my last few cruises on Princess, "Your preferred travel agent back home can help complete your booking"

back home would certainly imply the country in which you reside.

Book the cruise you wish to go on yourself online without a TA. Call Princess afterwards to apply the FCD. You can then go through the simple process of assigning the cruise to your TA if that's what you want. We just did this for three cruises ourselves but decided to assign the cruises to a large retail warehouse vendor because they offered us a very large sum in OBC.

Problem is if they go online, they do so using the Australian web site, in which case they get the Australian pricing and terms and conditions (The T&Cs for the US site includes the phrase that the user must be a US resident over the age of 18).

Their entire problem is they have an FCC is Australian dollars, purchased while on a cruise booked with an Australian TA and now want to book a cruise with a US TA under US terms and conditions, which their TA is willing to do, but the system will not recognize or apply their Australian FCC.

If they want to use it they need to book under Australian T&Cs through the Australian site or TA at Australian pricing.

That's exactly what we do.

I just compared offers with 2 TAs vs. Princess.

It was an interesting comparison. The TA I've used a lot gave a minimal OBC and a modest price savings on one of the cruises. The "new" TA gave no OBC and no price savings. Princess beat the price for both of them on 2 out of 3.

Next step...check out the big box store.

No decent TA should have a price higher than Princess. If you are using a TA that charges more than Princess, it is time to find a new TA.

My original posting has drawn out a lot of comments, some helpful but most not. However none have answered the question so I'll state the facts as simply as I can:

 

1. In May 2017 I booked a cruise from Singapore to Southampton through a TA in Australia where I was living.

 

2. In April 2018 while on that cruise I bought future cruise deposits during the Suez Canal transit, if that matters. As usual, Princess continually pushed the benefits of FCDs, valid for 2 years, to be used when you're ready, etc but particularly their wording in the letter/receipt: "When you have decided on your next cruise, please contact YOUR travel agent to arrange your booking...." I can find nothing in the terms and conditions nor in the marketing literature to suggest that I am prevented from using a US TA or limited to using an Australian TA (I've used US TAs, Australian TAs and Princess direct in the past) to use those deposits.

3. In July 2018 I negotiated a cruise through my US based TA who I have used before, stating that I wished to use those FCDs. Princess told them I had no current FCDs. I called Princess and they admitted that yes, I did have FCDs but they could only be used through Australian TAs.

 

Now, can anyone provide a sensible answer as to why the deposits can't be used. I'd need a contract lawyer to understand what some replies have suggested and it still wouldn't answer the question "how they can make a clear offer, have it accepted, refuse to honour it, and get away scott free?"

 

To those who suggested I'm being unethical in trying to book through a US TA, may I point out that the US TA (and others I know of) is authorised to make bookings from non-US residents.

 

To those who suggested I could just get my FCD returned or book with another cruise company, why should I. I bought the deposits in good faith and will use them in due course. In the current case, I found a cruise that suited us, at a convenient time, to our required itinerary, and negotiated the best offer which happened to be through my US TA. I will still book it without the benefits offered by future cruise deposits.

This is exactly the same as if you were booking with lines such as Royal or Celebrity: if you book onboard, then your future cruise deposit is billed in the currency of whichever TA you booked the cruise you are presently on. So if you were on that cruise but had booked with your US TA in US$, your FCD would have been billed in US$. You, unfortunately, had booked your cruise with an Australian TA so that's the country that your new FCD would have been assigned to. On Royal and X, you can get around this as you can ask to sign a form requesting that you want your booking to be allocated to a specific TA (unsure if this is possible on Princess?), resulting in a future cruise deposit in US$.

If you paid for your FCD in AUD then they can only be used to book a cruise in AUD. ie. with an AUS TA. We have the same problem in the UK, if we buy a FCD in GBP its got to be used on a cruise booked in GBP. Why would you think an AUD FCD could be used on a cruise booked in US$...

 

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Correct, it is the same with other lines too: you can't use a FCD in another currency than the one you are booking in.

This is exactly the same as if you were booking with lines such as Royal or Celebrity: if you book onboard, then your future cruise deposit is billed in the currency of whichever TA you booked the cruise you are presently on. So if you were on that cruise but had booked with your US TA in US$, your FCD would have been billed in US$. You, unfortunately, had booked your cruise with an Australian TA so that's the country that your new FCD would have been assigned to. On Royal and X, you can get around this as you can ask to sign a form requesting that you want your booking to be allocated to a specific TA (unsure if this is possible on Princess?), resulting in a future cruise deposit in US$.

 

 

 

Correct, it is the same with other lines too: you can't use a FCD in another currency than the one you are booking in.

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..this is still going round in circles and missing the point and, yes, the OP does understand the bit about the currency purchased in (not sure whether you mean the currency I purchased the S'pore-S'hampton cruise or the cruise I'm trying to book now though.)

As I'm tired of repeating, there is absolutely nothing in the Princes marketing materials, onboard presentations, or the FCD receipt letter itself to indicate that my FCDs can only be used with a cruise booked through an Australian agent or with Princess directly. The onboard FCD consultants normally say that the FCD payment will not be charged to my onboard account but directly to my registered credit card (Amex in my case.) If there is more to it that I should be aware of, then the literature, marketing materials and FCD consultant should make that clear.

The FCD amount itself is peanuts and if it needs to be USD to book with a US agent, then bill me for the difference. It's 2018, we have a global economy, Amazon, Ebay and thousands of others do business internationally using credit cards, without a problem....and Princess are happy to risk a multi-thousand dollar sale, plus spoil my relationship with one of their large US agents, for the sake of what is a $25 difference in deposit, which they could bill me for anyway if necessary. Give me a break.....

..this is still going round in circles and missing the point and, yes, the OP does understand the bit about the currency purchased in (not sure whether you mean the currency I purchased the S'pore-S'hampton cruise or the cruise I'm trying to book now though.)

 

As I'm tired of repeating, there is absolutely nothing in the Princes marketing materials, onboard presentations, or the FCD receipt letter itself to indicate that my FCDs can only be used with a cruise booked through an Australian agent or with Princess directly. The onboard FCD consultants normally say that the FCD payment will not be charged to my onboard account but directly to my registered credit card (Amex in my case.) If there is more to it that I should be aware of, then the literature, marketing materials and FCD consultant should make that clear.

 

The FCD amount itself is peanuts and if it needs to be USD to book with a US agent, then bill me for the difference. It's 2018, we have a global economy, Amazon, Ebay and thousands of others do business internationally using credit cards, without a problem....and Princess are happy to risk a multi-thousand dollar sale, plus spoil my relationship with one of their large US agents, for the sake of what is a $25 difference in deposit, which they could bill me for anyway if necessary. Give me a break.....

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Why would you think you could apply AUD deposit to a cruise priced in US$....It all sounds pretty logical to me, whether it's stated in Princess paperwork or not.

 

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Because other cruiselines allow you to do precisely that by means of an exchange rate.....NCL, RCCL and Celebrity for instance.

 

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Princess allow you to allocate to any TA or none. We allows choose none as we use whoever as the best deal. The OP doesn't seem to understand the bit about the currency purchased in bit, as this has been pointed out a couple of times without reply.

 

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What I was trying to clarify was that the TA used doesn’t matter, but their country does. So, OP booked onboard and the sailing he/she was on was reserved in Australia with any TA, then the FCD automatically is assigned to the country in which the pax booked the cruise they were on e.g. booked cruise with Australian TA. Went on cruise and whilst onboard purchased a FCD. Then the FCD would be charged and allocated to the currency/country in which the initial TA was used. Which in the OP’s case would have been Australia ;). Sorry if I didn’t initially make it so clear ;).

Because other cruiselines allow you to do precisely that by means of an exchange rate.....NCL, RCCL and Celebrity for instance.

 

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I think you are getting a little confused as Royal and X allow you to purchase future cruises whilst onboard, but they automatically assign it to the TA/country that the cruise you are currently on is reserved in, unless you specifically ask for it to be assigned somewhere else and you have to complete a form with the Future Cruise person to get it changed. It is quite possible to book one cruise in a certain currency and another in say US$, but on the paperwork you would clearly have the currency and booking country that goes with each booking.

Additionally, if you booked a future cruise in a certain currency onboard, then you could not change that booking to a US TA if it was purchased, for example, in pounds sterling.