Viking Ocean vs. River

Viking Ocean
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
All times are GMT -4.
The time now is 02:02 AM.
#41
British Columbia
1,301 Posts
Joined Jun 2014
Originally posted by MikeyB
This must be the "new math" they taught after I graduated.
Yes, there are indeed more passengers per square inch on Viking.....but how does that make it "middle of the road" cruise line?
I ask that after taking 5 Viking River cruises.
Sounds like an opinion to me!
Aboard Blue Water cruise ships, you need to know the Gross or Net Tonnage to determine the passenger/space ratio. Gross tonnage is actually a measure of space, with each 100 cubic feet of interior space being equal to 1 ton. Due to many design factors, ocean going ships of the same length can have significantly different gross tonnages. Therefore, on blue water cruise ships, the ship's length means nothing when trying to determine the pax/space ratio.

On river cruises, the vessels are normally the same beam (width), which is determined by the locks and the same height, which is determined by low bridges. Therefore, river vessels of equal length, should have reasonably similar gross tonnages, so only knowing the length of the ship, you can get a reasonable indication of the pax/space ratio.

Host Jazz provided pax counts for vessels equal of length and therefore being river vessels, they will have similar gross tonnage. Based on the passenger counts provided, Viking River carries about 45% more passengers than Tauck, on ships that probably have similar passenger spaces. There the VR pax/space ratio is well below the normal for luxury river brands.

While Viking River may provided exemplary service consistent with Viking Ocean, the Viking River passenger space ratio is more consistent with mainstream than luxury. Whereas, the Viking Ocean ships are at the lower edges of the luxury lines pax/space ratios and are significantly higher than mainstream lines.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Andy & Judi

World Cruise & RV'ing Blog: www.andyandjudi.com

Upcoming Cruises
2020 - Viking Sun World Cruise - LA to Greenwich

Previous Cruises
1976 Uganda - Meddy
1977 Oriana - Vancouver to Sydney
1978 Oriana - UK
1978 Canberra - UK
1979 Uganda - Meddy
1979 Island Princess - Alaska B2B, Mexico B2B
1980 Sun Princess - Alaska B2B, Mexico B2B
1999 Sun Princess - Alaska
2002 Radiance of the Seas - Alaska
2005 Coral Princess - Panama
2005 Dawn Princess - West Coastal
2007 Dawn Princess - Mexico
2008 Island Princess - Panama
2008 Diamond Princess - Asia B2B
2010 Island Princess - Panama
2011 Diamond Princess - Alaska B2B
2013 Sapphire Princess - Alaska B2B
2014 Emerald Princess - Caribbean B2B
2014 Emerald Princess - Trans Atlantic
2015 Sea Princess - World Cruise
2017 CMV Columbus - Baltic
#42
NY
294 Posts
Joined Jan 2004
Again......cats and dogs.
Shouldn't a "luxury" cruise brand be determined with something more than the number of passengers on board?
#43
British Columbia
1,301 Posts
Joined Jun 2014
When you review the industry, all "Luxury" brands have smaller ships and lower passenger counts. Don't know of any "Mega" ships that are considered a luxury brand, so yes, the single factor consistent with luxury lines is smaller ships, lower passenger counts and larger pax/space ratios.

The luxury brands have many different perks, standards, etc that differ from the mainstream lines, but the aforementioned points pertaining to ship size and number of passengers are consistent across all luxury brands.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Andy & Judi

World Cruise & RV'ing Blog: www.andyandjudi.com

Upcoming Cruises
2020 - Viking Sun World Cruise - LA to Greenwich

Previous Cruises
1976 Uganda - Meddy
1977 Oriana - Vancouver to Sydney
1978 Oriana - UK
1978 Canberra - UK
1979 Uganda - Meddy
1979 Island Princess - Alaska B2B, Mexico B2B
1980 Sun Princess - Alaska B2B, Mexico B2B
1999 Sun Princess - Alaska
2002 Radiance of the Seas - Alaska
2005 Coral Princess - Panama
2005 Dawn Princess - West Coastal
2007 Dawn Princess - Mexico
2008 Island Princess - Panama
2008 Diamond Princess - Asia B2B
2010 Island Princess - Panama
2011 Diamond Princess - Alaska B2B
2013 Sapphire Princess - Alaska B2B
2014 Emerald Princess - Caribbean B2B
2014 Emerald Princess - Trans Atlantic
2015 Sea Princess - World Cruise
2017 CMV Columbus - Baltic
#44
New York
9,532 Posts
Joined Aug 2011
Originally posted by MikeyB
Again......cats and dogs.
Shouldn't a "luxury" cruise brand be determined with something more than the number of passengers on board?
Absolutely, and I could give you several areas in which Viking River doesn't match up with the luxury river cruise lines I mentioned. But my post was in response to two posters who attacked Caviargal for expressing an opinion about Viking River even though she has never sailed with them. Therefore the terms of this discussion have been restricted to facts – so I only mentioned the area in which I have objective facts.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Email me: [email protected]
Blogs: Jazzbeaux Blogs

I am not an employee of Cruise Critic and I don't speak for Cruise Critic. All opinions are mine alone. Also, I'm only a Host on the various River forums -- everywhere else I'm "just plain Jazz."

Booked:
Viking Sun British Isles Explorer 8-2018
Celebrity Edge Caribbean 1-2019
Ponant/Backroads Iceland 8-2019
Ponant New Zealand 3-2020

Completed:
AMA Discover Africa 5-2018 / Azamara Quest Costa Rica 1-2018 / Crown Princess Classic Canada & New England 10-2017 / Norwegian Pride of America Hawaii 10-2016 / Azamara Quest Norwegian Fjords 8-2016 / Celebrity Constellation Greek Isles 5-2016 / AmaDagio Provence 9-2015 / Celebrity Xpedition Galapagos 5-2015 / Celebrity Eclipse Southern Carib 3-2015 / Fresco Tours A Kinder Camino walking tour 9-2014 / Crystal Serenity Mediterranean 5-2014 / Coral Princess Panama Canal 1-2014 / AmaCello Rhine 8-2013 / Coral Princess Alaska 6-2013 / Ireland Fly-Drive 9-2012 / Norwegian Dawn Caribbean 3-2013 / Celebrity Summit Caribbean 1-2012 / Oceania Insignia Mediterranean 5-2011 / Fair Dinkum (Erie Canal bareboat) 7-2003 / Costa Italia Caribbean 5-1974
#45
Texas
819 Posts
Joined Jun 2009
Host Jazzbeau, how can an informed comparison be made when you’ve not cruised with a certain line, be it Viking, Uniworld, Avalon, etc? No one is attacking Caviargal, just stating this fact. If I’m not mistaken the subject line says it all. I’d feel the same if someone asked Scenic ocean vs river.


Sent from my iPad using Forums
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature






5.2011 Viking Emerald/China
2.2011 Carnival Triumph/Mexico
9.2009 Uniworld River Ambassador/Rhine
12.2008 Grand Circle Provence/Saone
12.2006 Grand Circle River Rhapsody/Danube
10.2005 Louis Hellenic Perla/Greece & Turkey
12.2003 M/S World/Egypt
#46
197 Posts
Joined Mar 2009
Originally posted by MikeyB
Again......cats and dogs.
Shouldn't a "luxury" cruise brand be determined with something more than the number of passengers on board?
Many thanks to those who point out the fallacy of using passenger count as a way of ranking, rating, and defining cruise lines. A common theme in this forum is the definition of Viking River as a middle-of the road line because of these self-serving metrics. (That, and as people have pointed out, the ongoing insistence by some that although they've never been on Viking they are comfortable criticizing the experience.)
Using the headcount model, I'd insist my Times Square Olive Garden is better than your Brooklyn based Peter Luger Steak House because Luger's has 32 extra people in it at the time.
Either that, or my sedan with 2 people is twice as good as your Rolls Royce with 4 people.
My last river cruise was on AMA and the last thing anyone thought of was how spacious and luxurious it was, particularly compared to Viking. In fact, I would suggest no one goes from Viking to AMA with the feeling "finally, a unique, upgraded experience with more room and service".
If anything, by adding ill conceived and ill designed booths at the front of the dining room the AMA room seemed noticeably cramped with narrow walkways for the staff and guests.
You're welcome to like or not like Viking (although many of us remain troubled by the "never travelled with them, but let me give you my opinion"), but please stop using the space per passenger trope as a way of expressing your opinions.
#47
New Hampshire
1,045 Posts
Joined Jun 2015
I think the space per passenger IS a good first order metric. But you need to look deeper; the "extra" space on some upscale river lines gets used for stuff like a massage room and a gym. I don't use these facilities on a river cruise and they subtract from the square foot per passenger space leaving less space for the common areas.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature

2018 Uniworld Portugal, Spain & Douro River Valley June & Viking Sky Med Odyssey October
2017 Viking Sea Viking Homelands May/June & Viking Forseti Chateaux & Bordeaux September
2016 Viking Lofn Amsterdam to Basel October 2016
2015 Viking Buri Portraits of Southern France April & Silversea Silver Spirit Mediterranean (Istanbul) September
2014 Viking Freya Romantic Danube September
#48
197 Posts
Joined Mar 2009
Originally posted by philw1776
I think the space per passenger IS a good first order metric. But you need to look deeper; the "extra" space on some upscale river lines gets used for stuff like a massage room and a gym. I don't use these facilities on a river cruise and they subtract from the square foot per passenger space leaving less space for the common areas.
Well put and I couldn't agree more. And you've touched on another one of those comparisons that I don't think is relevant, specifically such things as massage rooms and gyms. These features often come up to defend/explain "why I love XXX over Viking". To this day, I have never seen a single person using a river cruise gym or salon.
#49
Boston MA
7,849 Posts
Joined Dec 2006
Originally posted by drcpa
To this day, I have never seen a single person using a river cruise gym or salon.
No, they would prefer to take an early morning run on the "walking only" track.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
"Caminante no hay camino, se hace camino al andar." Antonio Machado
Expand for links to links to photos and more.
The high value put upon every minute of time, the idea of hurry-hurry as the most important objective of living, is unquestionably the most dangerous enemy of joy Herman Hesse





Click on the links below for photos

AT SEA: 1983/NCL Caribbean ~ 1985/Premier DisneyWorld+Cruise ~ 1997/NCL Alaska ~ 2000/Renaissance Istanbul to Athens ~ 2001/Celebrity Horizon Southern Caribbean ~ 200?/NCL Boston to Bermuda ~ 2005/Celebrity Zenith Central America/Western Caribbean ~ 2006/RCCL L.A. to Ensenada ~2007/Celebrity Century Scandinavia & Baltic Capitals ~2009/Celebrity Infinity South America around the Horn ~ 2016/Viking Sea Midnight Sun ~ 2016/Viking Sea NYE on the Med

RIVER DAYS: 2010/Viking River Cruises "China's Cultural Delights" ~ 2013/Viking "Footsteps of the Cossacks" ~ 2015/Viking "Passage to Eastern Europe"

Save
#50
Nottingham, MD
531 Posts
Joined Aug 2015
It is possible to decide that a particular cruise line is not for you without having to sail on it. Maybe the cost exceeds your budget or decor doesn't suit your taste or the level of service is too formal. However, I would not criticize a cruise line based on those factors, and certainly would not go to an online site to post complaints about a cruise line on which I had never traveled.

Even if I didn't like the payment schedule required or the gratuities policy or the "no children policy", I would just look for another company. That's why there are so many companies, because we don't all want the same thing!