Saying goodbye to Holland...Veendam A/C problems

[HeatherInFlorida]

You don't live in Texas, do you? :D

 

Or Florida ... :)

 

Before we took our first trip on the Maasdam back in 2009, I remember reading all sorts of horror stories about her as well, including permeating sewage smells, non-working plumbing and temperature controls accused of being only meaningless wall decorations. We found none of these problems ourselves in a verandah cabin, but obviously they happened to some of the passengers.

 

But it appears just like the Veendam these are issues that appear to be concentrated to only a few cabins or areas of the ship. Certainly not fair at all to those passengers to have this negative experiences, when the rest of the same fare paying passengers got a far better deal, but even will those similar tales on the Maasdam, it was our own experience that everything was fine.

 

Hate to think booking a trip is akin to winning or losing a lottery and hope all passengers can be assured of equality of treatment for the class of room they are paying for.

 

I guess you just can't stop yourself even as you seem to back away a bit from some of your previous posts.

 

Your experience on the Maasdam has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue on the Veendam. There are always going to be nightmare stories here or there on CC and we all have to read with care. But have you seen all the threads about the Veendam? Have you decided that all of us are lying? Stretching the truth? Embellishing?

 

We're not. On our cruise I didn't run into one person who didn't talk about the issue. If they themselves had no problem,. they knew someone who did. There were public rooms where we froze and areas it was hot. We were told as far as cabins were concerned it was where you were on the line ... you either froze or toasted.

 

So these are not "isolated incidents". And there's no way to know whether you're going into a hot or cold cabin and once there, you're told there's nothing they can do.

 

The whole thing adds up to insanity. Of course there's something they can do. Years and years of this nonsense and they keep sending the ship out.

 

After our 2007 cruise I knew she was going into drydock for sprucing up. It never crossed my mind that HAL would add a bunch of ruffles and flourishes and leave the A/C in the same state ... yet that is what they did.

 

Someone said Bermuda is not a hot climate. Try it in July or August. It is H-O-T. And judging by the temps in NY this year, it could be pretty hot all the way down and back. Besides, it's not a matter of how hot it is, when you can't open a window or a door you need A/C. This shouldn't even be a matter of discussion and I can't believe even one person would stand up for HAL on this. We should all be in absolute agreement and yet I continue to read lame excuses for HAL ... it's incredible.

 

Where's there's smoke there's fire, forewarned is forearmed ... as I said before: book Veendam at your own peril:).

[ironin]

Besides, it's not a matter of how hot it is, when you can't open a window or a door you need A/C. This shouldn't even be a matter of discussion and I can't believe even one person would stand up for HAL on this. We should all be in absolute agreement and yet I continue to read lame excuses for HAL ... it's incredible.

 

Where's there's smoke there's fire, forewarned is forearmed ... as I said before: book Veendam at your own peril:).

 

Well said!

 

The reported A/C problems weren't the only reason, but they were a factor in my decision to cancel a booked voyage on the Veendam for next year. Once aware of reported problems a couple of months ago, after looking back in the archives and finding they were not new but ongoing, I decided it just wasn't worth the risk. My choice - others have different priorities, I'm sure. ;)

[Gsel]

We don't even stay in our own home when the AC is out! (which it did in early July, in Texas, and it was in the 90's. We left, took the dog to the kennel, and stayed in a hotel until the AC was fixed. I certainly don't blame anyone for canceling a cruise with all the reports of problems with the AC on the Veendam. HAL needs to fix the problems with their ships! There are too many reports of plumbing and AC problems with these older ships and we have been "victims" of the plumbing problems ourselves.

[peaches from georgia]

What galls me almost as much as HAL's refusal to fix the Veendam or scrap the ship is that they have their customer service reps flat out lie to concerned pax when they plead for information. Even when a pax booked for a cruise calls and cites health issues that require working A/C he is told "there is no problem on the Veendam and don't believe the people on CC". This is fraud IMHO. Hopefully no one will suffer serious consequences if they are given a hot cabin and a fan. A fan be 'dammed.

[mamaofami]

What galls me almost as much as HAL's refusal to fix the Veendam or scrap the ship is that they have their customer service reps flat out lie to concerned pax when they plead for information. Even when a pax booked for a cruise calls and cites health issues that require working A/C he is told "there is no problem on the Veendam and don't believe the people on CC". This is fraud IMHO. Hopefully no one will suffer serious consequences if they are given a hot cabin and a fan. A fan be 'dammed.

 

A/C is important for MANY people with health issues.Those of us on CC(a very small amount of the passengers who sail HAL) have access to this information. Most people do not. If HAL is really concerned about their bottom line, they should be reading this board and realizing that if the problem persists, someone might have a serious health condition, word might get out to the public at large about this problem, and no one will want to book this ship.

 

While adding the new cabins and the retreat, I would guess the A/C would have been fixed if it could be.

[ballgown1]

What galls me almost as much as HAL's refusal to fix the Veendam or scrap the ship is that they have their customer service reps flat out lie to concerned pax when they plead for information. Even when a pax booked for a cruise calls and cites health issues that require working A/C he is told "there is no problem on the Veendam and don't believe the people on CC". This is fraud IMHO. Hopefully no one will suffer serious consequences if they are given a hot cabin and a fan. A fan be 'dammed.

 

 

Not to get off subject, but I had this happen to me when I called HAL about another issue that I learned about on CC. The CSR got all defensive and said that you cannot believe what you read on CC. Don't know if they have a rep on CC or not, but that would be helpful, I think.

[cruz chic]

 

I guess you just can't stop yourself even as you seem to back away a bit from some of your previous posts.

 

Your experience on the Maasdam has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue on the Veendam. There are always going to be nightmare stories here or there on CC and we all have to read with care. But have you seen all the threads about the Veendam? Have you decided that all of us are lying? Stretching the truth? Embellishing?

 

We're not. On our cruise I didn't run into one person who didn't talk about the issue. If they themselves had no problem,. they knew someone who did. There were public rooms where we froze and areas it was hot. We were told as far as cabins were concerned it was where you were on the line ... you either froze or toasted.

 

So these are not "isolated incidents". And there's no way to know whether you're going into a hot or cold cabin and once there, you're told there's nothing they can do.

 

The whole thing adds up to insanity. Of course there's something they can do. Years and years of this nonsense and they keep sending the ship out.

 

After our 2007 cruise I knew she was going into drydock for sprucing up. It never crossed my mind that HAL would add a bunch of ruffles and flourishes and leave the A/C in the same state ... yet that is what they did.

 

Someone said Bermuda is not a hot climate. Try it in July or August. It is H-O-T. And judging by the temps in NY this year, it could be pretty hot all the way down and back. Besides, it's not a matter of how hot it is, when you can't open a window or a door you need A/C. This shouldn't even be a matter of discussion and I can't believe even one person would stand up for HAL on this. We should all be in absolute agreement and yet I continue to read lame excuses for HAL ... it's incredible.

 

Where's there's smoke there's fire, forewarned is forearmed ... as I said before: book Veendam at your own peril:).

Great post! Unless some people suffer such problems....it's not a problem for them. If THEY suffer the issue it's the biggest problem in the world. Karma has to come back and bite these people.

[IRL_Joanie]

Just an FYI and a request.... Let's not book all of the HAL reps into the group of uncaring/unaware/denial of problems group.

 

I know that my PCC has read these threads and has related them to people calling her to book a cruise.

 

She will call me if she cannot find out info from 'inside' HAL and ask me to search for her. I know this is her job to know, but I have the time and the friendship so why not:)

 

I would hope that there are many more like her, but am afraid that they do not care as much as some PCC's do. To others it might just be a job:(, to her it is a job and love. She has been with the company for more than 14 years now.

 

Joanie

[peaches from georgia]

Just an FYI and a request.... Let's not book all of the HAL reps into the group of uncaring/unaware/denial of problems group.

 

 

Joanie

I never said the reps were uncaring/unaware/denial of problems group. They are trying to keep their jobs by giving callers the company line. As for your PCC, she shouldn't have you searching for info about HAL ships for her; "inside" HAL should be telling her the truth to relay to customers.

[Oceanwench]

Just an FYI and a request.... Let's not book all of the HAL reps into the group of uncaring/unaware/denial of problems group.

 

I know that my PCC has read these threads and has related them to people calling her to book a cruise.

 

She will call me if she cannot find out info from 'inside' HAL and ask me to search for her. I know this is her job to know, but I have the time and the friendship so why not:)

 

I would hope that there are many more like her, but am afraid that they do not care as much as some PCC's do. To others it might just be a job:(, to her it is a job and love. She has been with the company for more than 14 years now.

 

Joanie

 

You could be getting your PCC into hot water for posting this.

Believe me, companies give their reps "talking points" and loyalty to the company is demanded.

 

How does your PCC know your "knowledge" gleaned from reading the message boards is accurate? I've seen a lot of misinformation here. I am not talking about this thread, or the Veendam issues.

 

But *certain* posters play loose with the facts and often have to return to eat crow after others point out the errors.

[willersonm]

Hi, Ballgown, Your cabin isn't near those without a.c. I hope? I think if I had one I would do what I read this morning, park myself in the lobby until they got it fixed or moved me.

 

We just got back from eating dinner with some from church. My birthday was last week and they took us out to eat. I ATE TOO MUCH. I feel like I am on a ship right now.

 

Hope you have everything squared away and have the best trip ever! I think you will like Alaska. Did you see those heavy jackets? Sometimes you need them and sometimes not.

 

Mary:D

[woodofpine]

So... HAL has had trouble with a group of Veendan cabins a/c...

 

No - I don't expect them to scrap the ship.;) I don't event expect them to take the cabins out of service (generally) unless the failure has been 'constant' for a very long time - completely constant.

 

According to OP the temperature in the cabin was (25-26 celcius or) 77-79 (actually not quite 79; 77-78) so - for me - evaluating OP means evaluating how reasonable her compensation demand is... which I looked for, but don't see that she's disclosed.

 

You don't get a free cruise out of 77-78 degrees; while it may be 3-4 degrees warmer than I personally set a bedroom thermostat at night (3 degrees warmer than office; 1-2 degrees warmer than day home). 'On the warm side' for sure, but hardly broiling... So what is the level of compensation demanded (?) because it is apparent HAL has offered compensation.

[HeatherInFlorida]

 

Great post! Unless some people suffer such problems....it's not a problem for them. If THEY suffer the issue it's the biggest problem in the world. Karma has to come back and bite these people.

 

Thank you, Lorekauf. That's it exactly:)

 

Just an FYI and a request.... Let's not book all of the HAL reps into the group of uncaring/unaware/denial of problems group.

 

I know that my PCC has read these threads and has related them to people calling her to book a cruise.

 

She will call me if she cannot find out info from 'inside' HAL and ask me to search for her. I know this is her job to know, but I have the time and the friendship so why not:)

 

I would hope that there are many more like her, but am afraid that they do not care as much as some PCC's do. To others it might just be a job:(, to her it is a job and love. She has been with the company for more than 14 years now.

 

Joanie

 

Oh please!!!! Kill me now. Here we go again. First of all .... no one said the words "uncaring, unaware, denial of problems" with regard to all HAL reps, you did.

 

That being said, I'm going to hope that this post is an embellishment on your part because if there is a HAL rep who calls you to look up information about HAL on CC so she can tell her customers, she's going to be out a job in about 5 minutes. So give her a call and warn her.

 

Fortunately, I'm sure I'm either misreading or you misspoke.

 

Anyway ... I had a lightbulb moment on another Veendam A/C thread. A few people came on and said they had just returned from a wonderful cruise on Veendam and had no problem whatsoever. And I'm sure that's true because no one ever said that there's a problem in every cabin.

 

So instead of bellyaching all day and beating this issue to death, how about we start a brand new thread where everyone can post whether or not they had a problem. Just post the cabin and deck number and how the comfort level was. This is a little subjective, of course, as SwissMyst pointed out, but we all pretty much know what HOT and FREEZING is.

 

There is a similar type thread on Celebrity for Solstice. Everyone comes back from their cruise, posts their cabin and deck number, what the noise level was, how big the balcony was, etc.

 

I call it being proactive. If HAL won't fix the problem, we can at least address it to the best of our ability for the CC members here.

[TracieABD]

Hi Heather-

Someone has tried to do this, but there has been very little response... See this link:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1250471

TL

[fann1sh]

Just discovered this thread, and it's fascinating reading.

 

Temperature is critical to my health. I try to be cautious and pro-active. Early in my HAL sailing history (more than a decade ago) I queried phone reps/customer service/eventually head office, and even asked my usual travel agent to intercede to get information for me.

 

My query: "I want to book a cabin where I can be certain of working air conditioning. I need a temperature no higher than 72F/22C after the cabin has had a chance to cool. I will look at any ship, any cabin category to achieve this. What do you suggest?"

 

HAL suggested I book another cruise line.

 

Their position: 72F is not a normal or reasonable interior temperature, and no cruise ship could accommodate such an unrealistic expectation.

 

"This is not the cruise line you're looking for. Move along."

 

Happily, I ignored this, and booked HAL anyway. All of my cabins have (eventually, sometimes with engineering intervention) been cool enough. Many cabins got down to my preferred temp: 20C/68F.

 

I understand HAL being unwilling to guarantee anything.

 

But for those who roll eyes when people post about inadequate A/C, I have a question:

 

What should passengers do if cabin temperature is critical?

 

 

I have taken an accurate thermometer on my last three cruises in case of issues with my cabin's heating or cooling. I can see now that that would not be enough for you on any future cruises. I'll need to take along a bonded technician from an independent laboratory to certify temperature readings and a team of impartial observers to verify the record keeping. Then my legal team can battle it out with you and Holland America over whether 90 degrees Fahrenheit is within the comfortable range for an air-conditioned cabin.

 

I doubt that my legal team has a chance against HAL. The one sided cruise contract has about 6000 words. HAL's responsibility under the contract is covered in 8 words, "Owner agrees to transport you on the Ship".

 

Yup.

 

I also bring at least one digital thermometer. Often two...for all the good it does me. The one time I had a problem and reported the cabin temp to the front desk, the reply was "And why would that be a problem?"

 

Way off-topic, but I'm a writer & your comment has sent me into plot possibilities overdrive. Thanks!

 

My circle calls those "plot bunnies". Happy hoppin' .

 

P.S.: Thanks to RuthC. Just in case I have intractable A/C problems on my next HAL cruise, I've added "best strand of opera length pearls" to my computerized packing list.

[Wannaknow]

Before saying good by to Holland try and "R" Class or a Vista Class or Signature Class ship.

 

My guess would be that the Vista or Signature Class ships are fine - but the point is after suffering through a 7 day cruise with no A/C and a totally unacceptable "credit" offer from HAL - I don't think the OP is in any mood to try any of HAL's other offerings. I certainly wouldn't.

[jotabecu]

Thank you, Lorekauf. That's it exactly:)

 

 

 

Oh please!!!! Kill me now. Here we go again. First of all .... no one said the words "uncaring, unaware, denial of problems" with regard to all HAL reps, you did.

 

That being said, I'm going to hope that this post is an embellishment on your part because if there is a HAL rep who calls you to look up information about HAL on CC so she can tell her customers, she's going to be out a job in about 5 minutes. So give her a call and warn her.

 

Fortunately, I'm sure I'm either misreading or you misspoke.

 

Anyway ... I had a lightbulb moment on another Veendam A/C thread. A few people came on and said they had just returned from a wonderful cruise on Veendam and had no problem whatsoever. And I'm sure that's true because no one ever said that there's a problem in every cabin.

 

So instead of bellyaching all day and beating this issue to death, how about we start a brand new thread where everyone can post whether or not they had a problem. Just post the cabin and deck number and how the comfort level was. This is a little subjective, of course, as SwissMyst pointed out, but we all pretty much know what HOT and FREEZING is.

 

There is a similar type thread on Celebrity for Solstice. Everyone comes back from their cruise, posts their cabin and deck number, what the noise level was, how big the balcony was, etc.

 

I call it being proactive. If HAL won't fix the problem, we can at least address it to the best of our ability for the CC members here.

 

 

 

 

I am booked in cabin 632, any problems?

Thanks

[HeatherInFlorida]

Hi Heather-

Someone has tried to do this, but there has been very little response... See this link:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1250471

TL

 

Always someone one step ahead of me!!!:) Not such a lightbulb after all.

 

It will take time to get it going, but if people pick up on it I think it's one way around a situation we really can't do anything about except not cruise on Veendam (my personal choice;)).

[woodofpine]

Those that claim a truly 'critical' health need for 60's and low '70's temperatures ought never travel generally; especially never to southern climates. 'Nuff said. I'd be curious what specific health condition 'critically' can't handle temperatures in the upper 70's (less than 80 degrees)?

 

If it is preference... merely a preference to occupy meat locker temperatures then stop making it seem like a 'major failure' if any cruise line operating densely occupied ships to periodically regularly fail to fulfill that frigid desire or demand.

[TracieABD]

Those that claim a truly 'critical' health need for 60's and low '70's temperatures ought never travel generally; especially never to southern climates. 'Nuff said. I'd be curious what specific health condition 'critically' can't handle temperatures in the upper 70's (less than 80 degrees)?

 

If it is preference... merely a preference to occupy meat locker temperatures then stop making it seem like a 'major failure' if any cruise line operating densely occupied ships to periodically regularly fail to fulfill that frigid desire or demand.

 

I know that with my mom, her cardiologist recommended her sleeping temps to be between 65 and 70 for optimal rest (which she needs for her health). They also said that she should stay out of 90's and above at all costs. I know that when we travel together, I freeze--but I can always request an extra blanket (or 6).

 

I have had students with severe seizure disorders that require colder temps as well.

 

My SIL with MS risks an exacerbation to her symptoms if she is in prolonged heat. Her symptoms can include loss of vision, reduced mobility, pain, loss of coordination...

 

Temperature control is very important to some people, and they should not have to restrict their travel on a climate controlled cruiseline (a very accessable form of travel) because the the cruiseline can't get it right. just sayin'

[CanWeGoYet?]

I would also add, (& I believe this has been posted before) that 78 or 79 degrees in a house where windows & doors can be opened, is completely different from being in a stuffy inside cabin with no fresh air or air movement.

[Jade13]

/quote

how about we start a brand new thread where everyone can post whether or not they had a problem. Just post the cabin and deck number and how the comfort level was. This is a little subjective, of course, as SwissMyst pointed out, but we all pretty much know what HOT and FREEZING is.

 

There is a similar type thread on Celebrity for Solstice. Everyone comes back from their cruise, posts their cabin and deck number, what the noise level was, how big the balcony was, etc.

.

 

I think that is a great idea.

[ookpik]

Or Florida ... :)

 

 

 

I guess you just can't stop yourself even as you seem to back away a bit from some of your previous posts.

 

Your experience on the Maasdam has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue on the Veendam. There are always going to be nightmare stories here or there on CC and we all have to read with care. But have you seen all the threads about the Veendam? Have you decided that all of us are lying? Stretching the truth? Embellishing?

 

We're not. On our cruise I didn't run into one person who didn't talk about the issue. If they themselves had no problem,. they knew someone who did. There were public rooms where we froze and areas it was hot. We were told as far as cabins were concerned it was where you were on the line ... you either froze or toasted.

 

So these are not "isolated incidents". And there's no way to know whether you're going into a hot or cold cabin and once there, you're told there's nothing they can do.

 

The whole thing adds up to insanity. Of course there's something they can do. Years and years of this nonsense and they keep sending the ship out.

 

After our 2007 cruise I knew she was going into drydock for sprucing up. It never crossed my mind that HAL would add a bunch of ruffles and flourishes and leave the A/C in the same state ... yet that is what they did.

 

Someone said Bermuda is not a hot climate. Try it in July or August. It is H-O-T. And judging by the temps in NY this year, it could be pretty hot all the way down and back. Besides, it's not a matter of how hot it is, when you can't open a window or a door you need A/C. This shouldn't even be a matter of discussion and I can't believe even one person would stand up for HAL on this. We should all be in absolute agreement and yet I continue to read lame excuses for HAL ... it's incredible.

 

Where's there's smoke there's fire, forewarned is forearmed ... as I said before: book Veendam at your own peril:).

 

Well said!

Veendam was our favourite ship,but until she is fixed once and for all it's 'bye 'bye.

Believe me 'having lived in Bermuda for eighteen years I can assure you it is HOT HOT HOT in July and August and part of September too.

[happy cruzer]

I know that with my mom, her cardiologist recommended her sleeping temps to be between 65 and 70 for optimal rest (which she needs for her health). They also said that she should stay out of 90's and above at all costs. I know that when we travel together, I freeze--but I can always request an extra blanket (or 6).

 

I have had students with severe seizure disorders that require colder temps as well.

 

My SIL with MS risks an exacerbation to her symptoms if she is in prolonged heat. Her symptoms can include loss of vision, reduced mobility, pain, loss of coordination...

 

Temperature control is very important to some people, and they should not have to restrict their travel on a climate controlled cruiseline (a very accessable form of travel) because the the cruiseline can't get it right. just sayin'

 

So if the cabin is 84 degress, is the cruise line liable for these folks health issues?

 

I think woodpines point is well taken. It's kinda of like life threatening allergies perhaps you are better of avoiding any chance of an issue as woodpine posted. Life threatening is serious as you are stating, I'm not sure I would trust it to an AC system out at sea. I know we are discussing a systemic problem but even a "one of" problem with the AC is probably not worth the risks you are outlining. Alot of facilities have UPS and other backup systems for these kind of heath issues, that's not on a cruise ship.

[TracieABD]

So if the cabin is 84 degress, is the cruise line liable for these folks health issues?

 

I think woodpines point is well taken. It's kinda of like life threatening allergies perhaps you are better of avoiding any chance of an issue as woodpine posted. Life threatening is serious as you are stating, I'm not sure I would trust it to an AC system out at sea. I know we are discussing a systemic problem but even a "one of" problem with the AC is probably not worth the risks you are outlining.

The cruiseline advertises comfortable, climate controlled staterooms... I know that stuff happens, but this is a systemic issue on the Veendam. Yet HAL continues to sell these rooms in spite of continued complaints by pax. There is a lack of responsibility if not negligence on the cruiselines part.