Saying goodbye to Holland...Veendam A/C problems

[iancal]

I do not think that HAL will ever admit that there is an A/C problem-hopefully they will fix it.

 

Acknowledging a problem comes with it the obligation to responsibly deal with customers who have been inconvenienced by the 'problem'. Cruise lines will seldom admit to any problem for fear of incurring refunds or

customer accomodation costs. It also allows their CSR's to insist that there is no problem and the folks on CC are either batty or a bunch of complainers.

 

My advice to someone caught in this predicatment would be as follows...

 

-try sleeping in the Atrium one night and see how quickly you are moved. Don't forget to wear your best pj's

 

-make up a sheet of paper. Insist that the HAL engineer measure the temperature in your room every day, three times a day. Record the temp and get him/her to initial beside it. My best guess...HAL will never, never agree to this simple, reasonable request but it will show them that you mean business. And make a note of the date, time of every discussion that you have with management on the issue.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I still don't think posting cabin numbers with faulty air conditioning means a thing. That is not a set fact. It probably changes constantly. A given cabin may be very hot one cruise, the thermostat or whatever is fixed and works fine the next but something else causes it to malfunction a month later. I think posting cabin numbers will be like a dog chasing its tail.

 

IMO........

 

I don't think that's accurate at all, but even if it is that's the whole point. If people post where they had a problem over a period of time we would find out if it's consistent in a given cabin. Could end up there's no more than 20 cabins give or take and the same ones are being written about over and over.

 

The termostats aren't broken; it's not a temporary malfunction. This is an ongoing problem year after year ... not single breakdowns.

 

Certainly there are possible variables that may vary from cruise to cruise, but it's also likely that there are certain cabins that consistently have a problem. I'm sure HAL would know exactly which cabins they are, but they have chosen not to share that information. Can't imagine why:rolleyes:.

 

The Weather channel's charts don't back up your statement..These averages are compiled over many years..

 

http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/BDXX0001_f.html;_ylt=Ar_3K1fmTh2CRAvmKErdhceLYDIB?woeid=56803

 

 

Average High's & low's in St Georges Bermuda is:

 

June: 81.0 F & 73.0 F

July: 85.0 F & 77.0 F

Aug: 86.0 F & 78.0 F

Sep: 84.0 F & 76.0 F

 

....:)Betty

 

Betty, in the interest of space I have not quoted your entire post.

 

Ever looked at average temps for Florida? Take a peek: West Palm Beach Florida Weather - Average Temperature in Palm Beach Florida - World Travel Guide ... high temp averages all under 90.

 

I have spent a lot of time in Bermuda ... been there in February, April, July, August and November ... not on cruises; I have stayed there for a week or two at a time.

 

It is H-O-T in the summer months. So if you're on a cruise to Bermuda and have no A/C, or poor A/C, in your cabin, you will not be comfortable.

 

John,

 

Thank you for the detailed reply, no one else has bitten.

My biggest point was that if it has been going on for as long as it has been reported here, then there must be something systemic.

.................

 

Perhaps some here have blamed these problems on what Copper describes as a "lengthening of her butt" in drydock last year, but I think most people here have taken the A/C problems back much further than that.

 

I've said several times the problems were talked about here on CC for example in late 2007, way before dry dock. We cruised in November of that year and there were many complaints about no a/c, too much a/c, freezing, boiling, etc. The excuse I saw consistently here on these boards was the adjustment of going from the cold temps of Canada down to the hot temps of the Caribbean. I'm no engineer, but that made no sense to me.

[ookpik]

You are only proving my point...I live in Florida right on the water & I lived on L.I. right on the Ocean in Long Beach..I know what Humidity is...However my post was not discussing cabin temps..I was discussing the posters definition of HOT HOT HOT.

The poster claims that Bermuda in Aug is always HOT HOT HOT, but that is not what the U.S. weather service averages state.. Temps in the mid 80's even with high humidity is not HOT HOT HOT..Temps in Fla in the high 90's & in Arizona at 110 plus is HOT HOT HOT..

You believe that your thermostat should be set at 78 & I completely agree with you...But others on this board want it much colder..When I posted on another thread that our cabin on another cruise was 64 degrees & I was cold, people thought I was nuts & I was flamed..

I keep saying that ones idea of Hot or Cold is subjective, just like tastes are subjective..

Not one person on this thread has posted an actual temp in their cabins..That is what I'm asking..We carry a thermometor with us..I completely agree that there is no excuse for the AC's not to work but HAL also needs facts..

How can one register a complaint & expect a company to re-imburse them without facts..

Facts in this case are what the Temperatures were in their cabins on a daily basis...In addition the OP has never come back to us with these facts or even said what HAL's offer was..I can't understand why one would trash a company without giving facts....

Now next week we'll be on the Veendam, but you can damn well be sure, that I'll know our cabin's temp & I'll be sure to come back & tell you all...

JMO...:)Betty

 

First of all HOT HOT HOT is a song that is always played in Bermuda,so I guess I was attempting a little humour there. I now live in Florida by the water and I agree it is unbearably hot now;however I can stay in air conditioning,choose not to go to the beach and shop in air conditioned comfort.In Bermuda,I presume people would wish to go to the beach and shlepp around the tourist places.Bermudians walk around with hand towels for mopping their faces,believe me ,low eighties is not the norm as stated by the US weather bureau,we used to long forNovember,the humidity is worse than Florida.

Enjoy

[SailorNYC]

Hello -

We cruised to Bermuda in the middle of July... although the temps were reportedly no more than 80 every day, we absolutely boiled down there. I do believe it is due to the humidity (though I never saw the data). The heat was of the "break a sweat while standing still in the shade" variety. In both St George's & Hamilton, we were most definitely hot hot hot!! Frankly, hot hot hot is quite the reserved understatement! It felt much more like the 100s than the high 70s to both of us.

 

Still... we had a lovely, wonderful time and, even given the same temps, would go back to Bermuda on the Veendam in a New York minute. Best to all.

[RedmondCruiser]

I do not think that HAL will ever admit that there is an A/C problem-hopefully they will fix it.

 

Acknowledging a problem comes with it the obligation to responsibly deal with customers who have been inconvenienced by the 'problem'. Cruise lines will seldom admit to any problem for fear of incurring refunds or

customer accomodation costs. It also allows their CSR's to insist that there is no problem and the folks on CC are either batty or a bunch of complainers.

 

My advice to someone caught in this predicatment would be as follows...

 

-try sleeping in the Atrium one night and see how quickly you are moved. Don't forget to wear your best pj's

 

-make up a sheet of paper. Insist that the HAL engineer measure the temperature in your room every day, three times a day. Record the temp and get him/her to initial beside it. My best guess...HAL will never, never agree to this simple, reasonable request but it will show them that you mean business. And make a note of the date, time of every discussion that you have with management on the issue.

 

You may have the best idea of all. Go down to the atruim in your PJs, pillow and blanket --- and don't forget to bring your fan, to sleep in an airconditioned area of the ship. Guarenteed - you will get some action.

The person to blame for the S class AC problems is the navel architect who designed the system. Aside from that I still cannot fathom how HAL could spend all that money on the wading pool and not on solving the AC problems. They should allow ample time to fix the problem in the same drydock where they replace the wading pool with a proper Sea View Pool.

I think that AC deficiencies are inherent in the S class ships. I have seen them loading a pallet of fans onto another S class ship (not the Veendam) I hope that someone at 300 Elliott bites the bullet and sees that this problem is corrected.

[casamariposa]

I agree that there is definitely a slew of problems with the Veendam. My mother and I transited the Panama Canal on the Veendam in 1999. Two engines went "kaput" just before we entered the Canal. Engineers from the Italian company that built the ship were flown in and boarded the ship at the middle lock. The idea was they could start disassembling the two engines before the ship eventually reached Vancouver for the Alaska summer run and then later on fit on the parts that were being shipped to Vancouver. When we reached the Pacific, we missed one port due to heavy winds. The Captain explained that ordinarily the wind would have caused no problems, but with two engines out, he couldn't get the ship in and out of port easily. The Captain said there was no excuse for engines to fail on a ship only a few years old. Fincantieri's (the shipbuilder's) excuse was that they had "subcontracted" the engine work to a Polish shipyard! We received an OBC of $50 due to the missed port. From day one of the cruise out of Tampa, engineers were on board the ship tearing out ductwork. We had the opposite problem to the one that people have been facing on the ship lately. It was so cold inside the ship, including the cabins, that we nearly froze to death! I understand that because the replacement parts were waiting for the ship in Vancouver, it was delayed only a few hours and sailed that night. There IS a problem with this particular ship.

[sail7seas]

OK Ruel (sp, sorry), I'll bite and give it a try!

 

First of all, not having workable a/c in one's cabin on a modern cruise ship is a serious problem, granted and no argument from this side! When you turn up, or turn down, that box on your stateroom wall, you expect it to work!

 

Unless someone steps up to the plate and identifies him/herself as such, none of us here are air conditioning engineers. We don't know Adam about the mechanics of an a/c system, especially one onboard a cruise ship! How intricate is it, how susceptible to breakage, and what is involved in repairing it when it, or parts of it, go belly up.

 

There was a claim made here that the root of Veendam's "a/c problem" was caused by the lengthening of her butt in the Freeport dry-dock in May of last year. Something about "stretching" the existing a/c system in order for it to "cover" the new cabins on her stern. Makes sense? Picked out of a hat along with a rabbit? You be the judge; I don't have that expertese!

 

None of us here, with a few exceptions, work for HAL so none of us here have any clue how many times HAL's engineers are routinely forced to work on the ship's a/c system before, during or after a cruise, including the one on Veendam, because 3, 27, 691, or 1,266 cabins have no air. Is the a/c in the same cabin, or block of cabins, down continually? Every cruise? If that were the case, you would think Veendam's management, and you just know very rapidly, Seattle, would get flak every sunday when Veendam is back in New York City. You would think the occupiers of those cabins would eventually go public and, I don't mean on Cruise Critic. So how bad and continual really is this problem?

 

Veendam joined HAL in 1996 and last underwent a dry-dock from 02 April-01 May 09 (the infamous Retreat Pool/Lanai Cabins/Mix/Showroom at Sea, etc. refit). Before that, she was in dry-dock from 05-27 January 06 (SOE part 1), from 06-15 May 2004 (Neptune Lounge/Pinnacle Grill, etc.) and fom 03-11 September 2001 (standard maintenance). As you can see by that schedule, on the avg, HAL ships get taken 'out of the water' every two-three years for either regular standard maintenance & upkeep or upgrades, enhancements & new features.

We can be pretty sure that the 'powers to be' on Elliott Strasse in Seattle don't like bad publicity. If the a/c on a certain ship, say Veendam, breaks down on a continual basis, that, will cause bad publicity. Maybe I'm just naive, but if that goes on for several months, let alone for three years as some here claim, I'm thinking it will darn well be put on the agenda as a priority the next time that ship goes into dry-dock, so in May of last year! Never mind that, during that same dry-dock high profile projects like a Retreat wading pool, Lanai cabins, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah,are installed. You find the money, you get someone who knows shipboard a/c systems in and out, you fix the bloody problem, and you shut up the complainers......well, at least a percentage of them, maybe, because there is always "stuff" to complain about!;)

 

There are people here on CC who have come out and said they have cancelled their Veendam reservations, and will no longer sail Veendam in the future as a result of what they're reading here. Hey, you've gotta do what you've gotta do! Why take a chance if you're not comfortable? Pretty sure HAL does not like cancellations and especially not for the reasons given!

 

Back in 2006/2007 HAL did have a continual problem, and that was with one of the two azipods on Oosterdam which out of the blue quit working, not long after a scheduled dry-dock. They attempted repairs for almost three months; they sent divers down; nothing worked! So what did they do? They put her in an unscheduled dry-dock in Esquimalt, BC; they hauled out a spare azipod from Europe, and they installed that azipod, cancelling a cruise and taking that ship out of commission for eight days at the same time. Unhappy campers whose vacation just got cancelled? Did they lose money in the process? Did that unscheduled dry-dock, transporting a huge azipod, parts and labor etc. cost them beaucoup money? But they have done it!

 

Only time will tell what the future holds re: any a/c problems on Veendam!

 

Btw, we'll be her passengers in about a month! Should be interesting!;)

 

 

 

 

All of this is so logical but where were we promised good logic?

On paper and in theory, it's hard to argue. Now let's see if it applies...... but how does one do that? :confused:

[Tamaracboy]

They should allow ample time to fix the problem in the same drydock where they replace the wading pool with a proper Sea View Pool.

 

Now we're talking, but the same fools would probably put in a rock climbing wall :eek:

 

r.

[ookpik]

Thanks SailorNYC for telling it like it is!

If there is no air in your stateroom in Bermuda in July,August or September one fan is not going to cut it;personally I'd need a fan on every orifice.

Bermudians in the know and with the wherewithall leave (Like Floridians) for places north..usually islands of Georgian Bay:D

[HeatherInFlorida]

Copper said:

There are people here on CC who have come out and said they have cancelled their Veendam reservations, and will no longer sail Veendam in the future as a result of what they're reading here. Hey, you've gotta do what you've gotta do! Why take a chance if you're not comfortable? Pretty sure HAL does not like cancellations and especially not for the reasons given!

I have to be honest. I would never cancel a cruise based on comments here on CC. If I did, I would have canceled almost every cruise we've ever booked on HAL:).

I have said we'll never cruise on the Veendam again based on our own experience in 2007 followed by the confirmation here that the problems are ongoing.

And I should mention that our very good friends who cruise HAL almost exclusively had the same problem in South America. My world is pretty small all things considered so that cinches it for me

With all the ships at sea, why take a chance? So I won't.

John, knowing how social you are, I really hope that when you're on the Veendam you'll listen to the general comments around you as well as report your own experience. I'm sure there are a lot of very comfortable cabins on the Veendam with no issue at all. When we cruised there were complaints about the A/C throughout the ship, not just individual passengers in their own cabins.

This is not just a bunch of chronic complainers on CC, the ones HAL has come to know and love so much. This is a very real issue and one that really should be addressed. It's a shame because the S and R class HAL ships are my favorites along with the Prinsendam.

[woodofpine]

Nope...it's a need, not a preference, when we're talking about a week or more duration. Bless your heart for caring enough to post! I'll give your kind suggestion I not travel all due consideration.

 

I think your internal thermostat is broken Fann1sh...:D:rolleyes::D

[kelmac]

There are three reasons I'm holding off on booking another HAL cruise:

(My wife and I have cruised 35 times, with eight on Holland America)

 

--On our last Maasdam cruise (favorite HAL ship) the A/C didn't work two of the seven days.

--HAL's smoking policy is not progressive enough.

--We were forced to give up our assigned seating in the MDR twice and pushed into open seating.

 

We had a nice run alternating between Celebrity and Holland America, but we haven't booked a HAL cruise since June 2009.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[Vic The Parrot]

There are three reasons I'm holding off on booking another HAL cruise:

(My wife and I have cruised 35 times, with eight on Holland America)

 

--On our last Maasdam cruise (favorite HAL ship) the A/C didn't work two of the seven days.

--HAL's smoking policy is not progressive enough.

--We were forced to give up our assigned seating in the MDR twice and pushed into open seating.

 

We had a nice run alternating between Celebrity and Holland America, but we haven't booked a HAL cruise since June 2009.

 

 

 

 

 

What does smoking, and dining have to do with A/C issues?

[Copper10-8]

What does smoking, and dining have to do with A/C issues?

 

Ah, good afternoon Sir, and how are we today?;)

[Vic The Parrot]

Ah, good afternoon Sir, and how are we today?;)

 

 

 

Better ... :D

[Copper10-8]

Better?

[kelmac]

What does smoking, and dining have to do with A/C issues?

 

My head starts to smoke and I loose my appetite when the A/C is on the blitz:rolleyes::)

 

Enjoy!

Kel

[Vic The Parrot]

Better bring me a bucket, I'm going to throw up! :D

[Copper10-8]

Better bring me a bucket, I'm going to throw up! :D

 

A bucket for Monsieur!

[sapper1]

Better bring me a bucket, I'm going to throw up! :D

I guess you lose your dinner when your appetite gets loose---or something like that.:D

[Vic The Parrot]

I guess you lose your dinner when your appetite gets loose---or something like that.:D

 

 

Just some Monty Python stuff from me and John. :D

 

 

You'd have to try real hard to make me lose my meal! LOL

[Vic The Parrot]

A bucket for Monsieur!

 

 

 

 

Merci, Gaston!

[Vic The Parrot]

Gaston ... a new bucket for monsier!

 

 

And perhaps a hose.

[fann1sh]

I think your internal thermostat is broken Fann1sh...:D:rolleyes::D

 

Hello again WoodOfPine. Since you added the emoticons, I'm guessing you didn't aim to be offensive, right? Because 72F (my goal) is usually considered the most "average" U.S. room temp.

 

I think my original point may have gotten lost in this shuffle. It was that HAL cabins have always met my temperature needs, which is due a health issue. (Prefer not to share gory details.)

 

"Room temperature" is usually defined as between 68 - 77 F (20 - 25C).

 

Cooling to 68F/20C is expensive in a Florida summer, and heating to 77F/25C is equally expensive in a snowy winter.

 

The hospitality and tourism industry aims to accommodate everyone within that normal range. That's what hotel room/cabin thermostats are for.

 

When the thermostat doesn't work, and the temperature can't be adjusted, the response from the front desk shouldn't be "Some people like that temperature - it's within the normal range - get used to the heat/cold". The *correct* response is "We can adjust that temperature to match your preference." However, sometimes there are mechanical problems.

 

When the HVAC doesn't work at all? IMO, posters like the OP have every reason to call HAL to account.

 

The point has been made before on this thread....would those who scoff about high temperatures feel the same way if there were no heat in a cold climate? If their cabin was 50F/10C?

[Jade13]

There are three reasons I'm holding off on booking another HAL cruise:

\

--We were forced to give up our assigned seating in the MDR twice and pushed into open seating.

 

 

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

 

How did that happen?