Private Parties in Public Spaces - Ouch

[496and706]

Let me get this straight... you couldn't go out on a deck? Promenade deck is a wraparound deck and it takes a few seconds to get the port side view and then the starboard side view. You can go down one of the glass elevators in midship to get there.

[PathfinderEss]

Here is the link to the TV show which all cruisers should watch.

 

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=1139954767&play=1

 

 

Very interesting link, I think I had seen it before on the Travel channel. Thanks for posting it.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

OK I swore I was not going to post here but there is just a couple of things driving me nuts.

First off how many people here in CC have attended a Meet and Greet? For those that were involved in several I am sure some of those were large. I have been involved in just a few that were very large and those Meet and Greet "Group" gatherings all in the Crow's Nest because frankly that is the best place to place a large group. The large Groups I have been in always lasted more than an hour because frankly when you get that many people together and had been chatting on the boards for many months you tend to want to meet as many people as possible.

So those of you that have been part of a Large Cruise Critic Meet and Greet in the past do you think it is possible YOU may have ticked off someone that may have wanted to use the Crow's Nest?? I would not be surprised that at one time if the original poster who is offended was not part of a group that did;) I see several posting that are defending the OP that have been part of a large CC group:rolleyes: I am sure there were signs up on the Port side entrance saying closed for PRIVATE PARTY. How can you even begin to defend when some of you have actually been part of a group that used up the Crow's Nest.:eek:

Then there are those Trivia Players :D OMG It seems that everytime I have ever wanted to use the Crow's Nest and some have been during scenic cruising times the WHOLE Crow's Nest is taken up by those playing Trivia. Not a chair or seat can be found and it is so loud. Unfortunately that is life on a cruise ship with very limited areas to palce groups. So just saying.......

Then a note to Charles... you are exaggerating just a bit about travel agents and groups, trust me there are not many perks and there has to be a whole lot of cabins sold in the group to come to anything, think in terms of 100's.Truthfully these groups are far and few between. I do not think those in travel quite told you the whole story ;)

 

Just to give you a quick lesson.... a Group is 16 cabins or more which of the 16 cabins they MUST be double occupancy. The cruise price is divided into 3 prices which you may already know there is the base fare, then there is port fees or what the cruise line calls non-commissionables and then there are government taxes. How HAL and or many other cruise lines pay back to the group is the take the average cost of just the fare of those 16 cabins/32 people and that gets paid back to the agency but that money is not received till about 2 weeks after the cruise has been completed, if anyone cancels from the group even if in penalty period they do not get credit. This reimbursement does not pay for one free cabin, the escort or TA still needs to pay for the cabin upfront and if most in the group chose an Inside yet the one person going that escorted chose a balcony the average back is of those Inside and only the fare. In most case the cost of an Inside is less than the port fees/non commissionables. Yes some categories get lower prices when the group is set up such as some Inside and Ocean View and the category VD is normally then the same price as a VH. Passengers who book under Mariner pricing or Flash Rates or any other special discounted rates HAL has also cannot be part of this group. Often times when it gets closer to sailing the price for groups is much higher than purchasing HAL's lower pricing. While what was described to you sounds wonderful in realty it is much harder to achieve. But YES HAL still likes to have these groups because they know when they get a group together small or large those passengers do tend to spend more money on board the ship. So in realty if 16 cabins /32 people are sold the escort and or Travel agent may only get reimbursed a total of $300 on some 7 days cruises. That does not quite pay for a cruise ;)

I totally agree with edmusic and if anyone is offended by that you really need to go to your local community college and take a basic's economics class. Holland America is NOT a charity, they are a money making BIG business that must make their share holders happy. I for one am a shareholder and like hearing that the on board revenue has been good. That NCL special on MSNBC should be watched several times and not looked at like it was just NCL because while NCL does it quite well that is really what they are all attempting to achieve. The selling of a cabin no matter if it is a SA Deluxe Suite or a category MM Interior stateroom does not make the company money, they barely break even and in many sailings do not break even if a lot of Flash rate cabins were sold. How they begin to even make a small profit is on board spending, selling shore excursions, casino, shops, spa and bar and if it is filling up the Crow's Nest with 100 people that will most likely purchase drinks from the bar then that is what HAL needs to do.

[arewethereyet]

I apologize to you and anyone else who I offended by this comment. I've read many of your posts and value your comments highly. I hesitated in using the description "inside cabin penny pinchers" but decided to because that is exactly how the cruise lines refer to those who purchase them. I got those exact words from the CNBC TV documentary called 'Cruise Inc., Money on the High Seas' which cruised with NCL for a week. From the moment you get on until the moment you get off, the cruise lines goal is to extract as much money from your wallet as possible. To think any differently is being naive.

 

So, my use of that description, which comes from the cruise line itself, gives credence to the fact that the cruise line would much rather sell you a high priced cabin at the brochure rate then have you buy a low priced cabin from some discount online broker.

 

Here is the link to the TV show which all cruisers should watch.

 

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=1139954767&play=1

 

Again, I apologize for offending you and/or anyone else. That certainly was not my intention. And, by the way, for my next cruise, we're looking at an inside cabin because money is very tight these days. That doesn't change the way the cruise line will look at me.

 

Just to clear up a point, CNBC travel correspondent Peter Greenberg is the one who used those words. No one associated with NCL said that in that video.

[kazu]

Lisa - thanks for posting - I tried to make the point about the meet and greets earlier in the thread for those who had some concerns but you are far more eloquent than I.;)

 

I am sure that we all have gone to one function or another that outsiders would view as 'private parties' - or 'intrusions in public spaces'.

 

Let's live and let live. Life is good on a cruise and ship and btw - 'private parties' abound on all cruise ships so it is a part of life. :) just as it can be at a hotel or even a resort:p:D

[sail7seas]

Excellent post, Lisa.

I don't think I learned much new as I've been told just about exactly what you wrote and I fully agree.....

 

HAL is a for profit business and I for one hope they have a banner year. The better their business solvency, the happier we who love HAL will be. Profit usually equals continuing successful business. :)

 

I want those blue hull beauties to continue sailing for us to enjoy for many more years.

As you pointed out, there have been times when we were guests at the private party that closed a space to others and other times when a space was closed to us. It happens. There are plenty of other places on the ship to move to. IMO

 

[serendipity1499]

Ruth wouldn't be a bit surprised if that's what the cruise line thinks of her. It's the truth! I purchase HAL shore excursions, Internet service, a drink a day, a 4* price Pinnacle dinner, and maybe a photo or two. That's about it.

And if that's how HAL wants to describe me, I'm fine with that so long as I can keep cruising the way I want.

 

One of the problems in resentment of reserved space, as I see it, is the egalitarian attitude Americans (and other nationalities) have. We were brought up that we are all equal, and believe that.

But the reality is that the world is not fair. Some people get more than others. When that happens, it's how you deal with it that matters.

 

What an intelligent & nice lady you are Ruth!..(I bolded your last statement) I fully Agree!:):):)

Thanks Lisa for your post..Unfortunately not many people truly understand the Travel Business & they resent it when a group might get a perk that they can't get..I love your anology about the trivia games..I too don't like them especially when I'm in a quiet corner of the CN & trying to read..LOL;)..However, that's my problem to deal with & fully understand that is part of life on board..

It's a fact in every business, they normally cater to those who spend more than to those who don't spend much at all.. Our large Group Travel Agents had special phone lines to call us..They never had to wait more than a few seconds..We had Res. Agents dedicated to handle just their calls..Others had to wait their turn with normal Psgrs., when our phones were busy.. Was that fair? Probably not, but it was important in filling our flights & good business practice..

 

Cheers ...:)Betty

 

[RevNeal]

Holland America is NOT a charity, they are a money making BIG business that must make their share holders happy. I for one am a shareholder and like hearing that the on board revenue has been good.

 

Totally agreed. I, too, am a Carnival Stock shareholder, and so I'm pleased when HAL has no trouble filling its ships and has good onboard revenue. Granted, it's more difficult for me to cruise when I can't snag cheap cruises -- and most of the cruises I'm taking these days are pricey ones -- however, my retirement's bottom line is happier when business is good.

 

The selling of a cabin no matter if it is a SA Deluxe Suite or a category MM Interior stateroom does not make the company money, they barely break even and in many sailings do not break even if a lot of Flash rate cabins were sold. How they begin to even make a small profit is on board spending, selling shore excursions, casino, shops, spa and bar and if it is filling up the Crow's Nest with 100 people that will most likely purchase drinks from the bar then that is what HAL needs to do.

 

Agreed. My only point is that one's booking-category isn't an automatic indicator of one's onboard spending habits. I've known some fellow inside-cabin dwellers who have spent multiple-times their cruise fare on just their bar bills (not to mention spa, Shore Excursion, Casino, etc.)!!! :D And, of course, then there's our dear RuthC, who occupies the other end of the spectrum! :D I suspect that most of us are somewhere in-between.

 

I do, indeed, believe what's been said on these boards about HAL preferring to have first-time or infrequent cruisers rather than long-time and frequent cruisers because the new or infrequent cruisers tend to spend significantly more money aboard ship than those of us who cruise 2 or 3 times a year. While I might not personally like what that implies, and while I don't enjoy the higher single-supplements that are being slapped on me as a result, I nevertheless understand why such is the case. I just pray the day never comes that they start charging us a repeat-passenger surcharge, indexed to the number of days we've cruised! :D

[PathfinderEss]

Thanks Lisa, you've said in one post what some of us have been trying to say (sometimes badly) for over a week on this thread.:):)

RevNeal, if Hal starts charging a repeat passenger fee, alot of us will be in big trouble. We'll probably all be wanting to give back our 'medallions' and 'stars'.:D:D

[edmusic]

I guess I created a firestorm that had some infuriated and others agreeing. This has been a most interesting read for all of us. My point was not to generalize about any one person or cabin category type, but rather divulge from the cruise lines point of view, that the 'Perfect Storm' to avoid is the low fare passenger who then doesn't spend any money once they're on board. I'm sure the cruise line is very happy with the inside cabin passenger who has a bar tab, takes shore excursions, buys some photos, etc. Conversely, the suite passenger who doesn't spend any money on board also costs the ship profit. Not generalizing, just pointing out the Perfect Storm which really costs the ship money.

 

According to the video, NCL (and I'm sure every other cruise line) knows each day to the penny whether they are reaching their sales goals with the bar, the spa, the casino, the photos, and the shore excursions. If they are under their goals, they then set out a strategy on how to sell more the next day. Remember your previous cruises - from the moment you get on board, you get sales pitched to death with soda cards, wine packages, photos, spa treatments, casino games, etc., and if you're like me, you just keep saying No, No, No! In fact, that wonderful cruise director you all come to know and love during the week, his main job is to make sure everyone is enjoying their cruise so that they will spend more money.

 

Charles - very good info regarding groups

 

RevNeal - Excellent clarification. I wasn't try to generalize (see above).

 

Lorekauf - thanks for accepting my apology. Can we be friends again?

 

Ruth - I'm sure HAL loves you and your loyalty. Incredible post about egalitarian attitudes. You're so right - the world is not fair and it's how we deal with that which determines our happiness.

 

laffnvegas - thanks for having my back

 

arewethereyet - I re-watched the video and I stand corrected. It was the travel guy, not the cruise line which said those words. However, I believe the cruise line would be in lock step with his statement as I'm pretty sure they had to sign off and approve the final cut of the video before it could be aired.

 

CC is a great group and we have all benefited from it. Let's continue to keep the lines of communication open and realize that we are going to have different opinions yet they can most certainly be discussed in a civil, adult, professional manner.

[cavecreekguy]

I totally agree with edmusic and if anyone is offended by that you really need to go to your local community college and take a basic's economics class. Holland America is NOT a charity, they are a money making BIG business that must make their share holders happy. I for one am a shareholder and like hearing that the on board revenue has been good. That NCL special on MSNBC should be watched several times and not looked at like it was just NCL because while NCL does it quite well that is really what they are all attempting to achieve. The selling of a cabin no matter if it is a SA Deluxe Suite or a category MM Interior stateroom does not make the company money, they barely break even and in many sailings do not break even if a lot of Flash rate cabins were sold. How they begin to even make a small profit is on board spending, selling shore excursions, casino, shops, spa and bar and if it is filling up the Crow's Nest with 100 people that will most likely purchase drinks from the bar then that is what HAL needs to do.

 

The offensive part, at least to me, is making the assumption that everyone who books an inside cabin is a "penny pincher". The last time I booked an inside cabin I spent around the same amount in onboard purchases as I did for my cabin. I have seen that TV show before and "get it". But paying that Flash rate allowed me to spend more in onboard purchases. If I had an expensive cabin I probably wouldn't be as quick to pick up that round of drinks for the table of perfect strangers I just met at dinner, for example.

[cruz chic]

Lorekauf - thanks for accepting my apology. Can we be friends again?

.

I'd be thrilled if this was the worst thing that anyone ever said to me:D. I've also said some things that have gotten me into hot water so no biggie. I did enjoy watching the video so thank you for posting it.

[cruz chic]

If I had an expensive cabin I probably wouldn't be as quick to pick up that round of drinks for the table of perfect strangers I just met at dinner.

Can I sit at your table on your next cruise:D;)? All kidding aside, I once sat at a table with some folks in a suite. They were not happy with an excursion and HAL did not offer a refund. They decided to reduce the hotel service charge by the amount. I explained to them how that was just wrong but they didn't care. Then they went on to tell everyone at the table that you could opt out of paying these fees. I can just imagine how they cheaped out in other ways on the cruise.

[RuthC]

I just pray the day never comes that they start charging us a repeat-passenger surcharge, indexed to the number of days we've cruised! :D

Don't even think such a thing! It will set off mental telepathy vibes in the universe, and somehow, they will end up in Seattle! :eek:

[cavecreekguy]

Can I sit at your table on your next cruise:D;)?

 

Of course!

 

All kidding aside, I once sat at a table with some folks in a suite. They were not happy with an excursion and HAL did not offer a refund. They decided to reduce the hotel service charge by the amount. I explained to them how that was just wrong but they didn't care. Then they went on to tell everyone at the table that you could opt out of paying these fees. I can just imagine how they cheaped out in other ways on the cruise.

 

That is pathetic. Punishing the ship staff for something they had no control over.

[RevNeal]

RevNeal - Excellent clarification. I wasn't try to generalize (see above).

 

-CLIP-

 

CC is a great group and we have all benefited from it. Let's continue to keep the lines of communication open and realize that we are going to have different opinions yet they can most certainly be discussed in a civil, adult, professional manner.

 

Thank you, and I greatly appreciate what you're saying.

[cavecreekguy]

Anyone interested - "Cruise Inc." is starting at the top of the hour on CNBC. At least it is on my Dish Network.

[Boytjie]

Very interesting thread for sure. LOL The M&G for the upcoming cruise I will be going on was originally sced for right after the life boat drill. I thought that was pretty strange. Later learned it had been changed to the first sea day in the Crows Nest.

It will be an interesting M&G for sure. The meeting will be held on the dance floor of the Crows Nest. I wonder if the over 100 people signed up for the M&G will fit on the dance floor. LOL I'm sure though that something else will happen. If NOT, well I just make the best of it and I just ADAPT to the situation.

 

We had a M&G on the Eurodam with about 110 attending. As far as I can remember, we had the whole Crow's Nest for the event and it was not overly crowded. I think it was held just before lunch.

[Boytjie]

My dear friend, I call that, "Pulling a Joanie!!":D:D

 

And boy, have I been on the receiving end of that (in private emails)! :D

 

On second thought... you actually meant what you said. ;)

[edmusic]

Here's another thought: You know your room key which is referred to as your 'Sign & Sail' card? It is explained at the beginning of the cruise that it is for your 'convenience' that it is used to buy everything on board so there is no need to carry any cash. True, it is very convenient to use and eliminates the need to carry cash on you, but I believe there is another use for it that is not explained to you. By using the data gathered from the card, the cruise lines know who the big spenders are and who the 'thrifty' ones are. While I don't know this for a fact, I'd bet the house that HAL (and every other cruise line) has a marketing department dedicated to enticing or luring the big spenders (whales, as they are called in Vegas) back to cruising with offers that those of us who don't spend a lot of money never receive in our Inbox. So, in a sense, they are discriminating against the low spenders by not offering them the same cruising deal. Fair? Unfair? Agree? Disagree? Right? Wrong? That's the way it is so get over it?

 

From someone else on another board explaining it better than I can:

 

I have to believe that a sophisticated company like Carnival Corp and their subs. would have some sort of very advanced analytical sales/marketing software that looks at past dollars and future dollars for each cruiser...and how to use levers to maximize revenue and profit.

 

The cruise lines may trot out their heritages to invoke warm customer thoughts-but make no mistake they are driven by quarterly revenue and profits. Maintaining the highest possible stock values are key to their executive compensation plans.

 

I suspect they know exactly how much revenue and profit to expect in every profit centre on the ship. And broken down by age, sex, marital status, and nationality. This is the core of their business and good data can give them an edge on either realizing more revenue/profit or improving the expense ratios in challenging times.

[dakrewser]

Your supermarket and dept store do the same thing. Get over it.

[Charles4515]

Here's another thought: You know your room key which is referred to as your 'Sign & Sail' card? It is explained at the beginning of the cruise that it is for your 'convenience' that it is used to buy everything on board so there is no need to carry any cash. True, it is very convenient to use and eliminates the need to carry cash on you, but I believe there is another use for it that is not explained to you. By using the data gathered from the card, the cruise lines know who the big spenders are and who the 'thrifty' ones are. While I don't know this for a fact, I'd bet the house that HAL (and every other cruise line) has a marketing department dedicated to enticing or luring the big spenders (whales, as they are called in Vegas) back to cruising with offers that those of us who don't spend a lot of money never receive in our Inbox. So, in a sense, they are discriminating against the low spenders by not offering them the same cruising deal. Fair? Unfair? Agree? Disagree? Right? Wrong? That's the way it is so get over it?

 

From someone else on another board explaining it better than I can:

 

They do send directed deals, I have gotten some with special codes that friends did not get for sailings with better prices but I don't see how it is based on being a big spender since I don't fit that catagory. I think it is more likely they send big spenders deals on suites and higher priced sailings.

[sail7seas]

Here's another thought: You know your room key which is referred to as your 'Sign & Sail' card? It is explained at the beginning of the cruise that it is for your 'convenience' that it is used to buy everything on board so there is no need to carry any cash. True, it is very convenient to use and eliminates the need to carry cash on you, but I believe there is another use for it that is not explained to you. By using the data gathered from the card, the cruise lines know who the big spenders are and who the 'thrifty' ones are. While I don't know this for a fact, I'd bet the house that HAL (and every other cruise line) has a marketing department dedicated to enticing or luring the big spenders (whales, as they are called in Vegas) back to cruising with offers that those of us who don't spend a lot of money never receive in our Inbox. So, in a sense, they are discriminating against the low spenders by not offering them the same cruising deal. Fair? Unfair? Agree? Disagree? Right? Wrong? That's the way it is so get over it?

 

From someone else on another board explaining it better than I can:

 

 

Your theory is logical and sounds possible but not necessarily accurate.

 

There is a poster on this forum who has come here for years though comes and goes. (S)He has complained repeatedly through the years that their huge on board spending seems to be ignored and unappreciated. It has irrirtated her/him considerably that (s)he not only books a costly cabin but spends a great deal of money on the ships and has never so much as gotten a blink of an eye........ in their view.

 

(S)He became so irritated about that and a few other issues (some of which involved spending on board), that they have switched cruise lines.

 

They had been extremely loyal HAL cruisers for years but are now unlikely to return.

They felt ignored and totally unappreciated. :eek: That cash cow left the farm.

 

 

[edmusic]

Your theory is logical and sounds possible but not necessarily accurate.

 

There is a poster on this forum who has come here for years though comes and goes. (S)He has complained repeatedly through the years that their huge on board spending seems to be ignored and unappreciated. It has irrirtated her/him considerably that (s)he not only books a costly cabin but spends a great deal of money on the ships and has never so much as gotten a blink of an eye........ in their view.

 

(S)He became so irritated about that and a few other issues (some of which involved spending on board), that they have switched cruise lines.

 

They had been extremely loyal HAL cruisers for years but are now unlikely to return.

They felt ignored and totally unappreciated. :eek: That cash cow left the farm.

 

 

I don't doubt for a minute this story, but there might be another side to it. Perhaps HAL dropped the ball and they slipped through the cracks. Or, perhaps they have been thanked, but not enough for them to feel like they've been appreciated. Like you said - "in their view". Some folks need to have their back patted more than others. But, if it is as true as they portray it to be, then HAL is certainly 'missing the boat' no pun intended!

[PeaceLoveCruise]

This board too often degenerates into a battle ground these days. We used to be able to post and if someone disagreed, it didn't turn into personal attacks or snide comments.

 

My DH sometimes wanders in to read only (because I am always logged on) and this morning he commented "there sure are some miserable old farts on there".... this from an original old fart, LOL:D But he's right.

 

The nastiness has been increasing over the past few months. Posters get called liars and end up being the butt of very snide and/or sarcastic remarks. Come on guys, let's get back to what it's supposed to be about... sharing info, experiences and voicing an opinion without fear of retribution.

 

I know that this is a few pages back, but....AMEN!!! ;)