Ryndam, please avoid at all costs

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

...As a point of clarification, the figure of 1,260 is double occupancy. The link below shows that Ryndam has 630 total staterooms. Of these, 191 are triple capacity and 87 are quads. So that would indicate that the total number of berths is 1,625 (if I've done the math correctly: (630-191-87)*2 + 191*3 +87*4)).

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets//news/FastFacts.pdf

 

Lisa & others. Thanks very much for correcting my misconception...I always thought the stated passenger capacity for a ship was the maximum capacity, but now I understand that I was incorrect. Your post certainly explains a lot about why sometimes a ship seems more crowded on certain voyages, and it will be something that I will consider before booking on voyages with free or reduced 3rd/4th person fares.:eek: Thanks again :) -S.

[Tampa Girl]

Ah Ha! Thanks:p Now it is making perfect sense

 

 

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in that home!

[dakrewser]

Why in heavens name would HAL offer so many "free 3rd and 4th passenger" deals if they didn't have a financial incentive to do so? Trust me, it is financially advantageous for them to do so, or they'd cease the practice.

 

I don't disagree with this at all, just wanted to voice my opinion on the gratuities issue....

[GoldenLover]

My apologies . . . I usually read but seldom post. In this case the temptation was too great. Today, DW and I are reminiscing about "a year ago today . . .

we were spending a few days in London prior to sailing from Dover to the Norwegian Fjords aboard Ryndam. Hard to say if we enjoyed London or the fjords or Ryndam more. Looking back - it was all great and we are surely fortunate to have had the opportunity. Hope you enjoy future cruises and your beautiful city. Our British cousins are putting on a great show right now - thanks for being such terrific hosts to the world.

[George C]

Try Oceania..It does not cater to children & even mentions that on their WEB site that although children are welcome it does not have children's programs & does not cater to them..On both our Oceania cruises we never saw a child on board..

 

 

 

 

Been wanting to cruise Oceania, most of there ships were the old Renaissance Cruises ships. Our next vacation is Sandalls and that is adults only, still think it would be a good idea to have some adults only cruises

[doctork]

Thanks to the OP for posting the heads up, though I agree one should avoid too broad a brush. Especially since I am sailing on Ryndam on August 18!

 

Fortunately it is a charter cruise with Garrison Keillor and his Prairie Home Companion radio show crew, so the passengers will skew toward polite adult Minnesota Lutherans, not many children. And personally I am cruising solo in a double cabin so someone else can bring a child along in that 3rd berth without changing the total.

 

That said, 6 years ago, DH and I sailed on HAL to Alaska with our then-16-year-old son as the occupant of that 3rd berth and he had a wonderful time, as did both of us parents. There was only a small group of teens, maybe 15 or 20, and there were no problems with misbehavior. We even had the opposite experience - a number of passengers who recognized DH and I as Spencer's parents remarked to us on how polite and mature he was, sustaining adult table conversation in the Lido for example, if he happened to sit at their table.

 

HAL should not board "too many" children, exceeding the capacity of their children's programs, but I think the it is ultimately the responsibility of the parents to maintain discipline in their kids, "bring them up right." But good on HAL for disembarking the teens who were beyond the line and beyond parental control, as that can spoil the whole cruise for some others.

[localady]

Thanks to the OP for posting the heads up, though I agree one should avoid too broad a brush. Especially since I am sailing on Ryndam on August 18!

 

Fortunately it is a charter cruise with Garrison Keillor and his Prairie Home Companion radio show crew, so the passengers will skew toward polite adult Minnesota Lutherans, not many children. And personally I am cruising solo in a double cabin so someone else can bring a child along in that 3rd berth without changing the total.

 

That said, 6 years ago, DH and I sailed on HAL to Alaska with our then-16-year-old son as the occupant of that 3rd berth and he had a wonderful time, as did both of us parents. There was only a small group of teens, maybe 15 or 20, and there were no problems with misbehavior. We even had the opposite experience - a number of passengers who recognized DH and I as Spencer's parents remarked to us on how polite and mature he was, sustaining adult table conversation in the Lido for example, if he happened to sit at their table.

 

HAL should not board "too many" children, exceeding the capacity of their children's programs, but I think the it is ultimately the responsibility of the parents to maintain discipline in their kids, "bring them up right." But good on HAL for disembarking the teens who were beyond the line and beyond parental control, as that can spoil the whole cruise for some others.

 

I am sure you will bave a fabulous cruise!! By then any problems should be fully resolved.

We've also cruised with our teen boys who knew exactly what was expected of them behavior wise before we ever boarded the ship. ;)

They also were aware that if there were any problems ever, that would be their last cruise with us (and my boys love to cruise :D)....

It is a shame that the behavior of a few can so spoil the cruise for so many others.

[doctork]

Thanks, Sher. I think it will be a great cruise!

[styles27]

While we're on the subject of children, anyone know the "usual kid situation" on a New England/Canada cruise during the summer months?

If and when we sell our inn, I would like to plan one of those.

 

 

Sheila we did that cruise with Princess and there were less than a dozen kids on board.

 

It was the Sept 3rd sailing though so school had started, but it was definitely an old crowd.

 

Notice I didn't say older? lol

[The Londoners]

Now home with a good reliable Internet connection again and would just like to say:

 

As per my post, I didn't personally have a problem with the number of children onboard - and had HAL increased crew numbers to accommodate the additional numbers I would imagine things would have run far smoother (a number of crew members confirmed that no additional staff were hired).

 

This was also not a complaint, just a genuine concern based on the first bad cruise experience we have had. My previous posts over a number of years

evidence that I am not a habitual complainer.

 

Many more problems arose on the ship subsequent to my post with the overarching problem being the slow/inadequate response received - and whether people choose to believe this or not, or for some reason seem to think I have some sort of ulterior motive, I can assure you that many people were unhappy and made written complaints.

 

I very much hope that the problems have now been rectified and subsequent cruisers have a wonderful time - however in common with a number of other board members on various threads, I do find some people to be unnecessarily insulting. I have given an honest account of just some of the difficulties encountered IMHO, have no 'axe to grind' and object to assumptions being made about 'the type of person' who writes this type of post - try this - a truthful person!

[dakrewser]

Now home with a good reliable Internet connection again and would just like to say:

 

This was also not a complaint, just a genuine concern based on the first bad cruise experience we have had. My previous posts over a number of years

evidence that I am not a habitual complainer.

 

Habitual or not you indicted a ship and an entire cruise line based on a single bad experience. No one seems to have doubted your complaint, but many (myself included) think you grossly over reacted.

 

Woulfd you care to recharacterize the ship and line?

[samsonmo]

Now home with a good reliable Internet connection again and would just like to say:

 

As per my post, I didn't personally have a problem with the number of children onboard - and had HAL increased crew numbers to accommodate the additional numbers I would imagine things would have run far smoother (a number of crew members confirmed that no additional staff were hired).

 

This was also not a complaint, just a genuine concern based on the first bad cruise experience we have had. My previous posts over a number of years

evidence that I am not a habitual complainer.

 

Many more problems arose on the ship subsequent to my post with the overarching problem being the slow/inadequate response received - and whether people choose to believe this or not, or for some reason seem to think I have some sort of ulterior motive, I can assure you that many people were unhappy and made written complaints.

 

I very much hope that the problems have now been rectified and subsequent cruisers have a wonderful time - however in common with a number of other board members on various threads, I do find some people to be unnecessarily insulting. I have given an honest account of just some of the difficulties encountered IMHO, have no 'axe to grind' and object to assumptions being made about 'the type of person' who writes this type of post - try this - a truthful person!

Hi Londoners,

Travelled on the same cruise on the same floor level. Fully agree with your comment. We also encountered the problem with overflowing toilets, foul stenches and the norovirus alert.Luckily we did not catch the virus. One of the main reasons the ship was so full was the fact the rates in Europe dropped dramatically prior the ship sailing resulting that many guests took advantage of such a deal. When you can cruise for less then € 100.- per day p.p and take kids for € 99.- for the whole cruise (around € 5.- per day) it is better then to fly out to the Mediterranean and stay in a hotel/apartment. I have written an email to my TA and they will forward my complaints/comments to Guest Relation of HAL. Luckily we had great weather en route and the crew was fabulous.

[kazu]

Now home with a good reliable Internet connection again and would just like to say:

 

As per my post, I didn't personally have a problem with the number of children onboard - and had HAL increased crew numbers to accommodate the additional numbers I would imagine things would have run far smoother (a number of crew members confirmed that no additional staff were hired).

 

This was also not a complaint, just a genuine concern based on the first bad cruise experience we have had. My previous posts over a number of years

evidence that I am not a habitual complainer.

 

Many more problems arose on the ship subsequent to my post with the overarching problem being the slow/inadequate response received - and whether people choose to believe this or not, or for some reason seem to think I have some sort of ulterior motive, I can assure you that many people were unhappy and made written complaints.

 

I very much hope that the problems have now been rectified and subsequent cruisers have a wonderful time - however in common with a number of other board members on various threads, I do find some people to be unnecessarily insulting. I have given an honest account of just some of the difficulties encountered IMHO, have no 'axe to grind' and object to assumptions being made about 'the type of person' who writes this type of post - try this - a truthful person!

 

Welcome home:):) Sorry to hear that your cruise didn't improve.:(

[startwin]

Now home with a good reliable Internet connection again and would just like to say:

 

As per my post, I didn't personally have a problem with the number of children onboard - and had HAL increased crew numbers to accommodate the additional numbers I would imagine things would have run far smoother (a number of crew members confirmed that no additional staff were hired).

 

This was also not a complaint, just a genuine concern based on the first bad cruise experience we have had. My previous posts over a number of years

evidence that I am not a habitual complainer.

 

Many more problems arose on the ship subsequent to my post with the overarching problem being the slow/inadequate response received - and whether people choose to believe this or not, or for some reason seem to think I have some sort of ulterior motive, I can assure you that many people were unhappy and made written complaints.

 

I very much hope that the problems have now been rectified and subsequent cruisers have a wonderful time - however in common with a number of other board members on various threads, I do find some people to be unnecessarily insulting. I have given an honest account of just some of the difficulties encountered IMHO, have no 'axe to grind' and object to assumptions being made about 'the type of person' who writes this type of post - try this - a truthful person!

 

Don't take it personally - it's the nature of some cc-ers to take every negative comment about a HAL ship or cruise as a personal insult, and jump to defend at all costs:rolleyes: Earlier this year, some of us reported issues from the Zuiderdam, and you wouldn't believe some of the names we got called - my favourite was "petulant trolls", LOL. I just hope that by lodging your complaints, HAL will take note and make improvements for the future.

[Viesczy]

The people with the worst children are the ones who will scream the loudest if anyone dares to correct them. It puts the crew/fellow passengers in a tough spot.

 

Can't help wondering if they are doing some 'unauthorized' flushing.

 

^agreed about parents and their out of control progeny. Some shaved chimp of a kids is acting like that proverbial shaved chimp, you get out the old stun gun and you're the bad guy because that shaved chimp is a little prince/princess who is just having a moment--for the last 7 days. Of course those parents are also the same ones who will TEAR into other children acting up as being overly coddled. :mad:

 

Yes I was being comedically melodramatic about the stun gun. I would never use a stun gun on a child... the cartridges are too expensive! :D

 

Agreed about the flushes too, I swear on some cruise folks were flushing the NYC phone book.

 

To the OP, I am very sorry that your cruise was FAR LESS than the enjoyable time you were hoping for--few things are as bad as a vacation ruined through no fault of your own.

 

Derek

[Hlitner]

Hi The Londoners. Sorry about your voyage; quite a few nasty situations you mentioned. But I don't understand how the ship could have had

1,370 passengers on board, when the ships passenger capacity is 1,260 -source http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-onboard/Ryndam#

May I ask the source of your stated passenger count... can't imagine a ship being allowed to leave port with a manifest showing more passengers than ships capacity.:confused:

 

Also, you did not mention the voyage, only the ship. Could you be more specific please?

 

Thanks,

Salacia

 

It is quite common for ships to sail with more then normal capacity, especially during school holidays. The ship's anounced capacity is based on 2 to a cabin so when you add lots of kids (and others) using the 3rd or 4th in a cabin capability it is easy to achieve 1370.

 

Hank

[luxurysailer]

Norovirus on any ship is difficult to contain. However, the problem will be compounded on a ship with a large number of children due to their generally more lax hygiene, particularly handwashing. We've unfortunately seen some atrocious handwashing lapses among adults as well.

[Salacia]

It is quite common for ships to sail with more then normal capacity, especially during school holidays. The ship's anounced capacity is based on 2 to a cabin so when you add lots of kids (and others) using the 3rd or 4th in a cabin capability it is easy to achieve 1370.

 

Hank

 

Hi Hlitner. Yes, thanks, as a result of this discussion, my misconception of ships capacity has been corrected (post #76):). BTW, subsequently, I found a website that gives stated capacity and maximum capacity of various cruise ships http://www.shipcruise.org/cruise-articles/12-passenger-cruise-ships-capacity

 

That site gives the max capacity of the Ryndam as 1,538 (plus 580 crew) - an increase of 278 passengers over the stated capacity of 1,260 :eek: Regards, -S.

[KirkNC]

It can get a little rough on here when you post a negative experience. If you cruise long enough you are bound to have one. Ours was this summer on the Caribbean Princess but one thing I did a little different. I waited until I got back and posted a full review. I gave a full airing of the many problems we encountered (including getting accused of starting munity by the Customer Relation Manager ) but at the same time I gave plenty of thumbs up on the good aspects the cruise (including fantastic service in all the eating venues). I am afraid yours comes across a little like you were out of breath to get the bad things out.

Sorry you did not have a better time!

[hardydog]

I too was on the same cruise as The Londoners. 21st July to 10th August. Dover to Dover. There were unsupervised teenagers and children causing problems for other passengers. We had a very nice family with a 16 years old on our dining table. He told us of two 19 year olds and their guardian being put off the ship for drunkeness, drug misuse and abusing passengers. It was also stated that Captain Rowden addressed all the youths and warned them about their behaviour. He then went on to speak to several youths and their parents individually.

Novo Virus was rife on board. There were daily reminders about higene over the tannoys and each evening, crew including entertainment staff and even the cruise director could be seen washing and sanitising public areas. It is also correct that the toilets at various time 'backed up' or wouldn't flush causing smells in the cabins and corridors.

BUT.... I had a good cruise, it was basic and in no way could it be descibed as luxury. Value for money is the phrase I would use, I paid a cheap price and got a decent cheap cruise. Would I recommend HAL to a friend as a luxury line..no. I will most probabley give them another go to see if this cruise was just an abberation or if there standards are that of other budget cruise lines. Hardydog

[sapper1]

Don't take it personally - it's the nature of some cc-ers to take every negative comment about a HAL ship or cruise as a personal insult, and jump to defend at all costs:rolleyes: Earlier this year, some of us reported issues from the Zuiderdam, and you wouldn't believe some of the names we got called - my favourite was "petulant trolls", LOL. I just hope that by lodging your complaints, HAL will take note and make improvements for the future.

 

At least we weren't accused of being common garden variety trolls. ;)

[Salacia]

The Londoners, I'm sorry for your bad experiences - both on the cruise and in response to your original post. Personally, my interpretation was that you were trying to alert others about the situation you experienced, and that was a thoughtful thing to do. Of course, readers are free to accept or reject information/opinion given on any post. Clearly, other subsequent first hand reports indicate that there were many problems on your cruise, as you indicated.

 

As for me, I'm grateful for having learned about the issue of stated passenger capactity vs max passenger capacity as a result of your thread. My hope is that as a result of the experience you related, parents are made more aware of the havoc unsupervised youths can create, and that HAL and other cruise lines recognize that the when passenger count is dramatically increased, so should the staff be increased - to do otherwise is to create a hazardous environment (necessitating disembarkation of culprits), overwork the crew, inconvenience and disappoint passengers - all of which is bad for business.

 

Anyway, thank you for your comments. Cheers, -S.

[startwin]

At least we weren't accused of being common garden variety trolls. ;)

 

Indeed. We were "special":D:D:D

 

And to KirkNC - we certainly accentuated the positives on our cruise, but it made no difference to the usual cheer-leaders.

[dakrewser]

The Londoners, I'm sorry for your bad experiences - both on the cruise and in response to your original post. Personally, my interpretation was that you were trying to alert others about the situation you experienced, and that was a thoughtful thing to do. Of course, readers are free to accept or reject information/opinion given on any post. Clearly, other subsequent first hand reports indicate that there were many problems on your cruise, as you indicated.

 

Few, if any, posters doubted the incidents reported by the OP. But what I, and others, objected to was the characterization of a shkip (which I was on just a few months ago) and a cruise line (which is my favorite of all still cruising) as something to be avoided.

 

Was their experience not the best? Certainly. Was it the Worst Cruise Ever? Not by a long shot. It's the over-reaction people were judging, not the events.

[Salacia]

Few, if any, posters doubted the incidents reported by the OP. But what I, and others, objected to was the characterization of a shkip (which I was on just a few months ago) and a cruise line (which is my favorite of all still cruising) as something to be avoided.

 

Was their experience not the best? Certainly. Was it the Worst Cruise Ever? Not by a long shot. It's the over-reaction people were judging, not the events.

 

Perhaps some readers recongized the extraordinary circumstances reported on that particular voyage realize that it it was not a typical voyage?

BTW, I didn't read the recommendation that this cruise line was to be avoided...only that ship (and I read between the lines to add: under those conditions, i.e. overcrowding, discount fares, noro virus, unsupervised youths, plumbing mal functions, short-staffed, etc.) No, certainly not the worst cruise, but not my idea of happy times. Maybe it's better if we all take the blinders off and realize that ship happens - hopefully it won't happen on my next voyage - or yours, but sometimes, it does happen! ;):) Regards, -S