Ryndam, please avoid at all costs

[dakrewser]

We spent 16 days on Ryndam in April and it was outstanding. It would appear your probem stems from so many children on board. As others have said, the flushing problems are almost always the result of someone flushing the wrong things - which children frequently do. Don't blame the ship for problem parents!

 

And just as one swallow does not a summer make, so to one bad cruise does not a disaster ship make.

 

One could just as easily state from your evidence that we should all avoid large groups of British children...

[kazu]

It seems from reading between the lines over the years, that HAL ships are very good at keeping children occupied and out of trouble up to a certain saturation point, beyond which chaos seems to reign. Maybe if they were to accept that they can only handle X number of children on any given cruise and were to limit bookings involving children to that number then everyone would be happy.

 

I have never encountered a cruise where the children have been other than well behaved but since we are booked on the NA over the American Thanksgiving I have a feeling we may be about to have our eyes opened.

 

I know that the parents are to blame and not the cruise line, but the end result is the same regardless of where the fault lies.

 

Awww Sapper - that just makes too much sense;):):p

 

I do hope your cruise is great on the NA:)

[peaches from georgia]

I thinkthe age of the children can make the difference between a nice family holiday cruise and what OP here has experienced. CLUB HAL does a good job entertaining the younger set, but a lot of teenagers on a ship can make for problems. (Didn't say 'will' make for problems, but can.) Given more freedom by their parents, peer-pressure, and a party atmosphere on a cruise can be a recipe for disaster.

 

I wonder what the 3 who were removed from the ship (along with their families of course) did to get the ultimate punishment. OP, do you know? I will bet my last nickel that the parents denied their darlings were misbehaving.

[DaveOKC]

The children don't bother us at all but the extra work created for the crew and extra pressure on limited sunloungers etc are an issue. It's not about blame, but surely someone must be responsible? As I have said, the front line crew are doing their very best, but HAL have a lot to answer for and the general standards of hygiene (or lack of) on this ship from embarkation onwards are surely the ultimate responsibility of Senior Officers onboard?

 

We try to avoid the summer and school holiday periods to reduce the impact of children on our cruises. While we love kids (have 3 plus 4 grandkids), we prefer our cruises to be sans kids. A time and place for everything.

 

DaveOKC

[RuthC]

:confused: Could this have been a be one-off incident as other reports about the Ryndam have been quite good? In any event, we are now "in for a penny-in for a pound".

I honestly believe that it could be exactly that. Once the extraordinary number of children boarded, and things got off track, everything took off like a runaway train.

You won't be facing the same situation.

 

I was on the Ryndam for two weeks in May, and thought the ship delivered a great cruise. Food and service was good, fellow passengers were delightful. There were no children running around causing trouble. Plumbing and A/C worked well.

[onthegogirl]

:confused: We will be on the Ryndam in mid September for an 18 day cruise. We are really looking forward to our cruise, but now have some questions. Probably won't be overcrowded with school aged children due to time of year, but general hygiene and plumbing problems are not what we want to deal with. Could this have been a be one-off incident as other reports about the Ryndam have been quite good? In any event, we are now "in for a penny-in for a pound".

 

 

We're in for that "penny" too. We should have a better shot with the kids back in school. Some, and only SOME parents seem to believe that children raise themselves and are always right and should never, ever be corrected. This is true of the US also. When these "parents" are brought to task they are defensive and irrational.

 

Since our itinerary is very port intensive we should not be as troubled by bored children. At least that's my hope.:)

[whogo]

So sorry to hear about your experience. As kazu stated, this was certainly an awful situation as several passengers were taken off the ship.

 

As a point of clarification, the figure of 1,260 is double occupancy. The link below shows that Ryndam has 630 total staterooms. Of these, 191 are triple capacity and 87 are quads. So that would indicate that the total number of berths is 1,625 (if I've done the math correctly: (630-191-87)*2 + 191*3 +87*4)).

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets//news/FastFacts.pdf

 

Good work on the math, Lisa. The Londoners reports 1370 onboard, "only" 110 more than the double occupancy number. Imagine if there had been another 255 on board! Note that the actual Ryndam capacity is 29% more than the stated (double occupancy) capacity.

 

I feel for you, The Londoners. Overflowing toilets, foul stenches, norovirus, overcrowding, and children running amok make for an unpleasant cruise.

 

Is there someone who is more OCD than I am that wants to figure out the "real" capacity of all HAL ships? I am surprised there has not been a lawsuit over the misrepresentation.

[CowPrincess]

The Londoners, we too have experienced the feeling of "too many people, too little space" on the R-dam. We were on either Main or Dolphin deck (where most of the triples and quads seem to be) and our hallway was an unending parade of people, and kids running up and down burning of steam, and grandparents yelling at their grandchildren, and the cabin stewards were VERY overworked. It does affect one's overall perception of the entire ship IMHO.

 

(.... and we only had noro to contend with, NOT all the smells etc you are reporting).

 

Don't blame the crew. There is only so much they can do, and the fact that some pax got removed from the ship indicates to me that crew members are NOT being lax.

[innlady1]

I'm sorry you were on a cruise with children run amok. :(

We're on the Ryndam January '13 and are looking forward to it...love the "S" class ships (thank you, Ruth! ;) )

We have five grandchildren whom we love dearly; they were all here for my birthday this week and left yesterday. It can be chaotic when kids get together, even when they're well behaved.

 

When booking a cruise, I try to avoid dates that will attract families with children; so far, so good. Have read too many horror stories. In addition to taking over the pool areas, I think the "extra" numbers on this ships impacts the comfort level of the ships.

 

The closest we have come were several families with small children on our Veendam cruise on May 6...not enough to make a difference in the overall feeling of the cruise though.

[styles27]

What a shame! I'm grateful that we're able to cruise during "non" school vacation times now that are children are adults.

 

We never sailed HAL when our children were small, we stuck with Carnival and RCCL and they always did a fantastic job keeping kids of all ages occupied.

No complaints whatsoever on any of the many cruises we took when our children were small, and most of them were during school vacation times when there were hundreds (yes hundreds) of children on board.

 

I never thought of HAL as a great choice for families with children...their onboard facilities don't seem to compare to the other lines that do cater to families with small children through teenage years.

While on Veendam in May, we checked out the "kid's area/club" and we both had the same reaction...how the heck do they expect to keep kids occupied in here? The area was severely lacking in comparison to the other ships we cruised on.

 

That's why we never cruised with HAL until this year.

 

So sorry OP that you have experienced these unpleasant conditions...it's a shame to be on a 20 day cruise and have to put up with that the entire time.

The people across the hall from us had plumbing problems and some afternoons we had to cover our noses and mouths when we walked to our cabin the stench was so unbearable. Fortunately, they were able to move them to another cabin.

[3rdGenCunarder]

The Londoners, we too have experienced the feeling of "too many people, too little space" on the R-dam. We were on either Main or Dolphin deck (where most of the triples and quads seem to be) and our hallway was an unending parade of people, and kids running up and down burning of steam, and grandparents yelling at their grandchildren, and the cabin stewards were VERY overworked. It does affect one's overall perception of the entire ship IMHO.

 

(.... and we only had noro to contend with, NOT all the smells etc you are reporting).

 

Don't blame the crew. There is only so much they can do, and the fact that some pax got removed from the ship indicates to me that crew members are NOT being lax.

 

Aha! A new choose-your-cabin hint. Look out for decks with lots of triples and quads. If a lot of 3rd and 4th passengers are there, it adds to traffic and potential noise. It also slows down the stewards because of making up the sofabed (or bunk) in so many cabins.

[AirGorilla]

Lisa,

 

You are quite right in your calculations. Anyone can rest easy on this one. These ship are NEVER overloaded. There is more than sufficient boat capacity for thie number the ship... any ship is allowed to carry and there are more than sufficient liferafts.

 

Of course there is a big difference between overloading and overcrowded and when a lot of the 3rd and 4th person in cabin option is taken up the ships tend to be very full.

 

One thing for sure, if you want to avoid an overcrowded ship, don't cruise during school holidays, don't cruise on anything less than 10 day criises.

 

Stephen

 

Just to make a point, the OP is on a cruise of TWENTY NIGHTS. This garbage can get old very quickly.

 

AG

[3rdGenCunarder]

Good work on the math, Lisa. The Londoners reports 1370 onboard, "only" 110 more than the double occupancy number. Imagine if there had been another 255 on board! Note that the actual Ryndam capacity is 29% more than the stated (double occupancy) capacity.

 

I feel for you, The Londoners. Overflowing toilets, foul stenches, norovirus, overcrowding, and children running amok make for an unpleasant cruise.

 

Is there someone who is more OCD than I am that wants to figure out the "real" capacity of all HAL ships? I am surprised there has not been a lawsuit over the misrepresentation.

 

There is probably "small print" that says double occupancy.

[solocanadian]

The children don't bother us at all but the extra work created for the crew and extra pressure on limited sunloungers etc are an issue. It's not about blame, but surely someone must be responsible? As I have said, the front line crew are doing their very best, but HAL have a lot to answer for and the general standards of hygiene (or lack of) on this ship from embarkation onwards are surely the ultimate responsibility of Senior Officers onboard?

I don't feel you can fault HAL for your poor cruise experience. Blame the parents of these nasty children. Blame the children for plugging the toilets and blame the children for the spread of norvo. Was on a 2 week innaugural cruise of the Veendam. One week there were some real bad ass teenagers. They ran amok in the wee hours of the morning and have soda fights in the bars with the soda fountain dispensers. They'd walk on back of couches in Explorers lounge, take up seats around piano in pano bar, even they were not old enough to drink, and sit with feet up on cocktail tables. Thanks heaven Purell wasn't around then. Hate to think what they would do with that stuff. No way would I cruise during, Spring Break, Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Years. So many of the kids that cruise during these time frames are spoiled little s---- and once onboard the parents leave it up to the "ship" to look after them. Was pleased to hear that some of the kids on your cruise got kicked off - hate to think what they did. The only blame to HAL IMO would be the cheap 3rd & 4th passenger fare for this cruise.

[CowPrincess]

Aha! A new choose-your-cabin hint. Look out for decks with lots of triples and quads. If a lot of 3rd and 4th passengers are there, it adds to traffic and potential noise. It also slows down the stewards because of making up the sofabed (or bunk) in so many cabins.

 

What I think REALLY slowed down the cabin stewards was the # of cabins where the floors were COVERED with toys, clothes, other debris, so they had to pick their way through all the cr*p to actually get their work done. All the while being SHRIEKED at to "do this", "do that", "get me this NOW" by the "adult" occupants of the cabins.

 

Our friends and us were the ONLY cabins along that one hall that were not triple or quad occupancy. :eek: We learned our lesson about "look out for triple/quad cabins" AND "don't travel over US holidays" ;)

[jtl513]

Note that the actual Ryndam capacity is 29% more than the stated (double occupancy) capacity.

That is the physical max, but regulations prevent that from ever being the actual max. Booking of triples and quads are often not allowed even though the rooms are open.

[3rdGenCunarder]

What I think REALLY slowed down the cabin stewards was the # of cabins where the floors were COVERED with toys, clothes, other debris, so they had to pick their way through all the cr*p to actually get their work done. All the while being SHRIEKED at to "do this", "do that", "get me this NOW" by the "adult" occupants of the cabins.

 

Our friends and us were the ONLY cabins along that one hall that were not triple or quad occupancy. :eek: We learned our lesson about "look out for triple/quad cabins" AND "don't travel over US holidays" ;)

 

I forgot about that aspect of it. Four people in a space that has storage for a double are likely to leave things around because it's too hard to put it all away. (This is NOT an excuse, just an observation) I'm probably a lot neater on a cruise than I am at home. I don't want the steward to think I'm a slob!

[irisheileen]

Aha! A new choose-your-cabin hint. Look out for decks with lots of triples and quads. If a lot of 3rd and 4th passengers are there, it adds to traffic and potential noise. It also slows down the stewards because of making up the sofabed (or bunk) in so many cabins.

 

Great tip!!!! I'll keep that one in mind for next cruise. Thanks.

[George C]

We no longer cruise in summer to avoid cruises with children, best cruise we ever took was on Renaissance Cruises which was adults only and non smoking, too bad they went out of business following 9/11. Wish some other lines would at least have some sailing as adult only I think Celeberity use too but have not heard of that recently.

[whogo]

That is the physical max, but regulations prevent that from ever being the actual max. Booking of triples and quads are often not allowed even though the rooms are open.

 

How many of the 1,625 berths are allowed to be filled on the Ryndam? I would think that Holland America would want to be licensed (if that is the proper term) and insured to fill all berths if possible.

[Tampa Girl]

You are welcome, just so sorry I felt it necessary to do so. Of courde, this is a personal view, but sadly evewn seasoned HAL travellers have said the standards on this ship fall way short compared with their other experiences. We will certainly never sail HAL again though. Hopefully there will be some reviews to further assist people in making up thwir minds!

 

 

I sympathize with your dreadful experience. There is much to be said for not traveling over holidays where there are apt to be a multitude of children. But . . . the Ryndam is a lovely ship and we never experienced these problems. What I don't understand is why people who have had bad experiences automatically assume that those conditions exist on every cruise of that particular ship and on every ship in the cruiseline. Logic dictates otherwise - as shown by endless, conflicting perceptions of a particular cruise. One person's experience does not translate into the norm.

 

We look forward with great anticipation to our November, 2013 TA cruise back to Tampa. Can't wait!

[innlady1]

I sympathize with your dreadful experience. There is much to be said for not traveling over holidays where there are apt to be a multitude of children. But . . . the Ryndam is a lovely ship and we never experienced these problems. What I don't understand is why people who have had bad experiences automatically assume that those conditions exist on every cruise of that particular ship and on every ship in the cruiseline. Logic dictates otherwise - as shown by endless, conflicting perceptions of a particular cruise. One person's experience does not translate into the norm.

 

We look forward with great anticipation to our November, 2013 TA cruise back to Tampa. Can't wait!

 

Thanks, Tampa Girl. A most insightful, logical post...:)

[mtnmommy]

My husband, my mother and I have cruised with our two children on HAL eight times (twice on the Ryndam), and I completely agree that there is a saturation point for the number of children. The Club HAL area is just too small. HAL is very good with smaller numbers of younger children, and my 9-year-old daughter loves it. But the tweens are in the same space, with often the same activities, as the little kids. My 12-year-old son went only once on our cruise this summer because he felt that he needed to help supervise the small ones when he was there. Don't know about the teen program yet.

 

HAL has been a wonderful experience for our family, but we've cruised on port-intensive trips in Europe, or in a slower time in February when my children had a winter break. My kids like to just hang out (we keep them very busy in port), and Club HAL has been a great diversion for my daughter during the occasional sea day.

 

Although we love the Ryndam, I would hate to sail on her with a huge number of children--it just isn't set up for it. Also, it makes parenting your own kids tougher when groups of children are running amok. This year, we have no February break, and we were considering a holiday cruise, but I don't think we're up for it.

[fleckle]

It seems from reading between the lines over the years, that HAL ships are very good at keeping children occupied and out of trouble up to a certain saturation point, beyond which chaos seems to reign. Maybe if they were to accept that they can only handle X number of children on any given cruise and were to limit bookings involving children to that number then everyone would be happy.

What an excellent idea!

I wish that all cruise lines would do that, on all ships.

 

We are among those who tend to avoid the shorter cruises during school vacation times, which helps a lot but is still no guarantee as there are always the exceptions.

 

 

 

I sympathize with your dreadful experience. There is much to be said for not traveling over holidays where there are apt to be a multitude of children. But . . . the Ryndam is a lovely ship and we never experienced these problems. What I don't understand is why people who have had bad experiences automatically assume that those conditions exist on every cruise of that particular ship and on every ship in the cruiseline.

If you happen to have the misfortune of being in a cabin that has ongoing plumbing problems or children running up and down the hallway banging on the doors in the middle of the night, it is no consolation whatsoever to to be told that someone else on the same ship did not have such problems.

 

Nobody is assuming that those conditions exist on every cruise or every ship.

 

The point is that there is no way of knowing in advance with certainty on which ship or which cruise such things will or will not occur.

 

When they do occur, we have no way of knowing in advance on which cruises the problems will be addressed and immediately corrected, and on which cruises they will not.

 

Even knowing how such problems were handled on one particular ship at one particular time is no predictor of how it may be handled by a different staff at another time.

 

It is very easy to say "we never experienced these problems" and make light of them.......... until they happen to you.

[cruzn single]

Just want to throw out another idea--not totally right, but maybe???????

 

Last year when we were on the Volendam, were considering a cruise on some ship leaving from Dover in July (for the life of me can't remember what ship), but a little later. A lovely British woman that was on our Trivia team told us NOT to take the cruise. It was leaving right at the beginning of the Olympics and that a lot of British were trying to figure how to get out of the area during the Olympics!!!!

 

Could this be one of the reasons that there are such a large number of children? Families traveling from Great Britain during Olympics.

 

Maybe I am not right, but this immediately came to mind when I read this.