Baseball Caps in MDR

[sr5242]

I am so amazed that someone would be so offended by a cap wearing dinner companion that they would switch tables. I prefer to be offended by my tablemates' actions and comments rather than their dress code. Telling fellow guests to remove their caps?? What's next, telling overweight men to not wear tight speedos? Instructing women with severe tummy bulge to shelve the bikini for a skirted one piece? While I would love to do both, my sense of decorum keeps me from doing so!

[CruiseTobey]

I am so amazed that someone would be so offended by a cap wearing dinner companion that they would switch tables. I prefer to be offended by my tablemates' actions and comments rather than their dress code. Telling fellow guests to remove their caps?? What's next, telling overweight men to not wear tight speedos? Instructing women with severe tummy bulge to shelve the bikini for a skirted one piece? While I would love to do both, my sense of decorum keeps me from doing so!

 

 

While we are at it, we can tell those thus offended to remove their jackboots. :D

[poncho1973]

I love when people say they wouldn't do anything about ____ that offends them, but they will glare at the other person.

 

Interesting note. Glaring at someone usually doesn't work. If you feel so passionately about something that you are willing to stop whatever you are doing (i.e. enjoying your dinner) to GLARE at them... you're the one being dumb. Do something constructive or give it up. Talk to the staff. Talk to the person. Do something or shut it and go back to your life.

 

 

Oh... just a small point of note... in several countries glaring is viewed as rude as or more rude than things like wearing a hat indoors.

[sr5242]

I love when people say they wouldn't do anything about ____ that offends them, but they will glare at the other person.

 

Interesting note. Glaring at someone usually doesn't work. If you feel so passionately about something that you are willing to stop whatever you are doing (i.e. enjoying your dinner) to GLARE at them... you're the one being dumb. Do something constructive or give it up. Talk to the staff. Talk to the person. Do something or shut it and go back to your life.

 

 

Oh... just a small point of note... in several countries glaring is viewed as rude as or more rude than things like wearing a hat indoors.

 

Perhaps I am one of the few people who actually goes on vacation to relax and not stress the small things. When I see something offensive, I shrug my shoulders and move on.

 

I save my angry glares for my husband😠

[TexCruise371]

Perhaps I am one of the few people who actually goes on vacation to relax and not stress the small things. When I see something offensive, I shrug my shoulders and move on.

 

I save my angry glares for my husband

 

Oh.......that one hurt! :eek: I know how he feels :rolleyes::o:cool:

[ORANGEinINDY]

Is that your dress cap? If not, I could send you a new seed cap! :D;)

 

Wow.....a person can't even have a little fun around here anymore :cool:

Barry;

I'll have fun with you:D

I could never wear a cap to dinner, so the seed cap is out. Do you have any Seed Speedos?:confused:

Be great for the group picture in a few weeks:eek:

[galavant3]

Perhaps I am one of the few people who actually goes on vacation to relax and not stress the small things. When I see something offensive, I shrug my shoulders and move on.

 

I save my angry glares for my husband😠

 

I agree. It is a sign of the times. It isn't just baseball caps and it isn't just on cruise ships. For example, young men are no longer taught to offer their seat to the elderly or pregnant women. We (as a baby boomer, I include myself) have definitely raised an "its all about me" society and now we have to deal with the consequences. In the scheme of things, wearing a baseball cap is one of the more minor issues. It is just a symbol of a much larger issue.

[Onessa]

There are always these double standards in etiquette. . .

In most western-based religions (ok, Christianity and Judism), women were required to cover their heads while men are required to remove their hats (although they may still be required to wear a yamaka if Jewish). While some of these traditions have faded away, their impact on our culture has not.

 

It is a form of respect for men to remove their hats/caps when indoors. Most professional environments (offices, etc) have dress codes that prohibit wearing a hat unless for religious or medical reasons. Schools have dress codes that prohibit wearing a hat. It is not a "dead" tradition.

 

I am so amazed that someone would be so offended by a cap wearing dinner companion that they would switch tables. I prefer to be offended by my tablemates' actions and comments rather than their dress code. . . .

(emphasis mine)

I was the one who indicated that I would ask to be re-seated for the remainder of a cruise if I were stuck at a table with someone so rude as to wear his cap in the dining room. I would not tell them that they should take the hat off, I would go to the matre'de and ask to be reseated. Similarily if I were seated at a table with an able-bodied person who chose to eat with their feet, I would ask to be reseated for future meals.

 

If my tablemates action is to disrespect the dresscode of the dining establishment and to disrespect me and the others at our table by choosing to wear a cap indoors at the dining table, it is that action that does offend me and I will choose to ask to be reseated. And I will tell the matre'd that the reason I choose to be reseated is that I found my tablemate's actions to be offensive.

 

If said tablemate discretely apologizes for the lapse explaining a medical or other legitimate reason for wearing the hat, that would be fine.

 

PS

Instructing women with severe tummy bulge to shelve the bikini for a skirted one piece?

I'm not entirely sure what the "skirt" would do to camoflague a tummy bulge -- heavy thighs maybe?

Besides the logic does not follow -- I would not ask to be reseated if I found the amount of makeup my tablemate wore to made her look rather unattractive in my opinion. That tablemate's action is not a sign that she disrespects the rules of the dining establisment or her fellow diners. If there was a rule that no-one could wear a bikini and Ms Tummy shows up with one, she is disrespecting the rules. But there is no rule that states that no one can wear a bikini poolside or even that only those with a BMI of x% may do so. So while I might be right there with you in spirit (cover up!) Ms Tummy is not dissing RCCI, is not dissing me -- she may, if anything, be showing little respect for herself.

[poncho1973]

young men are no longer taught to offer their seat to the elderly or pregnant women.

 

I'm going to chime in on this point. I was raised by a Southern mother, who taught me to say "Yes, sir" and "No, ma'am" and to give up my chair for a lady.

 

THAT SAID... women changed the rules. It has been slammed and slammed and slammed and pounded and pounded and pounded into my head for my entire life that women are my equals. Something I wholeheartedly agree with.

 

I can't blame any male for NOT giving up his seat to a woman. I know you said "elderly and pregnant" but a lot of women still look for it. We men have bought into the reality that women are NOT our inferiors. If a woman shouldn't make less money than me because she's my equal and a woman shouldn't be ignored because her mind is my equal and a woman shouldn't be kept from positions of authority because she is equally capable... then she is fully capable of standing just like any man can.

 

ANOTHER THAT SAID... my personal code dictates that I stand and give my seat to anyone who is elderly (male or female), anyone infirm (male or female), anyone holding small children/babies* (male or female), OR anyone that just looks like they need the seat more than me.

 

Call me a feminist or call me a jerk, but you can't pick/choose when you're equal and when you're frail and weak. The entire notion of giving a woman your seat is because she's somehow weaker and too frail to stand, while the brave, mighty man can. The glass ceiling days are over!

 

 

 

*this obviously includes babies still in the womb

[galavant3]

I'm going to chime in on this point. I was raised by a Southern mother, who taught me to say "Yes, sir" and "No, ma'am" and to give up my chair for a lady.

 

THAT SAID... women changed the rules. It has been slammed and slammed and slammed and pounded and pounded and pounded into my head for my entire life that women are my equals. Something I wholeheartedly agree with.

 

I can't blame any male for NOT giving up his seat to a woman. I know you said "elderly and pregnant" but a lot of women still look for it. We men have bought into the reality that women are NOT our inferiors. If a woman shouldn't make less money than me because she's my equal and a woman shouldn't be ignored because her mind is my equal and a woman shouldn't be kept from positions of authority because she is equally capable... then she is fully capable of standing just like any man can.

 

ANOTHER THAT SAID... my personal code dictates that I stand and give my seat to anyone who is elderly (male or female), anyone infirm (male or female), anyone holding small children/babies* (male or female), OR anyone that just looks like they need the seat more than me.

 

Call me a feminist or call me a jerk, but you can't pick/choose when you're equal and when you're frail and weak. The entire notion of giving a woman your seat is because she's somehow weaker and too frail to stand, while the brave, mighty man can. The glass ceiling days are over!

 

 

 

*this obviously includes babies still in the womb

 

I was only referring to the elderly (men and women) and pregnant women. I do not expect a man to offer his seat to me and if he did, I would thank him politely but refuse the seat.

[nbsjcruiser]

Me too. According to whom? Old traditions die hard, I guess. I figure new one's start by people challenging old traditions. This from someone who doesn't wear a hat but wonders why anyone cares if someone else does.

 

To me its called etiquette.

 

From dictionary.com: Etiquette, decorum, propriety imply observance of the formal requirements governing behavior in polite society.

 

Polite society.

 

Now, one person may feel that there is no need to observe what many believe to be common polite etiquette while living in a polite society. In today's society that is more and more deemed to be ok. Who needs etiquette anyway? I guess that would mean someone letting out a big belch during the main course would be fine. Who needs etiquette? Eating with my hands should be ok too. Who needs etiquette? Can I put my feet up on the table, unbutton my pants and declare that the best damned meal I've had since I ate that possum two weeks ago? I don't see why not. Who needs etiquette?

 

People make excuses all the time for why they think etiquette shouldn't apply to them. To me it boils down to a simple choice really and many take the easy way out and equate lack of etiquette with personal choice. Most cases its just ignorance or laziness.

[EVALUATOR]

 

...If said tablemate discretely apologizes for the lapse explaining a medical or other legitimate reason for wearing the hat, that would be fine...

 

 

So someone with medical issues has to explain themselves to you, and then apologize...NOT!!!

[elephant98]

I wore a hat in the main dining room on Oasis/Allure. Of course, there was a dancing panda bear and a lion there too -- it being the Dreamworks character breakfast. :-) I didn't even think about it because of the setting. But, if the server or someone else had asked me to kindly remove the hat, I would have obliged.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

To me its called etiquette.

Some old etiquette rules (I guess you want to follow all of these, right?)...

From: http://www.marts100.com/etiquette.htm

Thirty Pieces of conduct that were considered incorrect:

1. To be noisy and assertive, sullen, or bored

2. To be too pressing for attention

3. To bang doors and talk noisily on the stairs

4. To give orders to other people's servants or employees

5. To borrow other people's possessions

6. To borrow even the smallest sum of money

7. To use a pocket handkerchief in public, unless absolutely necessary

8. To question people about their private affairs

9. To be unpunctual

10. To be careless about neglecting other social conventions

11. To lounge about, or put feet on chairs in public

12. To wear a dinner coat and black tie at any gathering where ladies are present

13. To indulge in unpleasant personal "tricks"

14. To smoke in a drawing room without permission

15. To smoke a pipe in the company of ladies without permission

16. To walk out of a door or into a lift before a woman

17. Not to leave the inner side of a pavement to a woman

18. To fill the mouth over full, to sneeze, cough or choke noisily, while eating

19. To lounge over the table while eating

20. To brag, be overbearing, or to be servile

21. Not to make way for a lady when meeting her on the stairs

22. To stare at people

23. To pay personal compliments, unless very delicately conveyed

24. To contradict or show intolerance of other people's opinions

25. To interrupt the conversation of others

26. To repeat anything unpleasant said by one person about another person, to that other

27. To gossip ill-naturedly

28. To talk of domestic or personal affairs in general society

29. To speak discourteously to servants or others in an inferior social position

30. To repeat unnecessarily often the name of the person with whom conversation is being carried on.

Please note #'s 11, 12, 22, and 23.

 

Now, I guess if we want to follow "proper etiquette", no more jackets & ties in the MDR.

[fireofficer5]

To all the dolts who have no problem with hats at dinnertime, just off CCL freedom.

What a bunch of hillbillies. Not most, not some, but enough to be noticed.This was the my 21st CCL.

My how far they have fallen.

Lets hope RCCL does not follow this path.

By the way I'll still sail CCL.

[gambee]

I was raised with the idea that caps are for outdoor areas. But I honestly could care less what others around me wear or don't. I know I would never do it and that's it. If others like them then good for them :-) wear it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ladysilver]

But he does wear a hat indoors, something some people consider bad manners.

He wouldn't wear one in a nice restaurant, what about just an ordinary restaurant, would he keep it on then?

 

 

Do you have a crystal ball? Why do you keep saying he wears a hat indoors? He doesn't. And why would it matter what kind of restaurant? I've known him for 34 years and he's ALWAYS taken off his hat in a restaurant. It's just common courtesy.

 

Be careful...You might fall off that high horse. :p

[legallady]

I really don't care one way or the other if someone wears a hat indoors or at the table, but I am wondering why it is considered rude?

 

Is it because it always has been? I mean there must be an actual reason why it is rude. Or did customs of the time determine that for a valid reason and it just stayed with us?

 

Can't go wrong going back to the basics -- and to the established and recognized experts:

 

http://www.emilypost.com/everyday-manners/common-courtesies/479-hats-off-the-who-what-when-where-of-the-hat

 

The article, in part, states:

 

Hats aren't the essential article of clothing they once were but are still worn by both sexes for fashion and for function. Knowing when to remove a hat is as important as wearing the right hat for the occasion. If you were a medieval knight who failed to remove his helmet or lift his visor and identify himself the consequences could be fatal. Throughout history hats identified social standing and removing a hat was a gesture of respect. In the "old days," men took off their hats in Christian churches, when they entered someone's home, when greeting a boss, and always in the presence of a lady. Ladies were entirely exempt from "hat rules," wearing them whenever and where ever they wished. While some of these customs are now historical footnotes, even in today's casual culture men and women still remove their hats as a sign of respect.

It then goes on to itemize when baseball types caps worn *by either sex* should be removed. "At mealtimes, at the table" is just one of the situations described. -- and yes, Emily Post exempts cancer patients from *all* hat rules -- they may keep their hats on when and where they wish.

 

This article certainly won't put the issue to rest and won't convince those who feel they have the right to do whatever whenever, but for what it's worth the Post article can lend some gravitas to the opinion of those who espouse the no-hats/caps/whatever-at-the-table attitude.

 

And for what it's worth -- I have sailed with Cunard several times and was amazed at how people understood and adhered to the suggested dress code for each evening. The baseball caps and cowboy hats came out only on the day of disembarkation; I wondered where all these people had been for the trip, then realized that they had been wearing cocktail dresses, floor length evening gowns and tuxes just like the rest of us! I guess you can -- when you really want to.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

Can't go wrong going back to the basics -- and to the established and recognized experts:

So let's not use lounge chairs, after all, you shouldn't put your feet on chairs. Did you know it's also impolite to wear a coat and black tie if ladies are present? Also, make sure you don't stare at people.

[Ladysilver]

:cool:Why would your husband have to take off his hat when a lady enters the room? If he was a true gentleman, he would not have his hat on in the first place. A room is inside. A true gentleman would remove his hat upon entering that room:cool:GOT CHA

 

Sorry,...I meant to say he takes his hat off when a lady aproaches, wherever we are. Outside, of course. He dosen't wear his hat inside at all. :)

[dz9yvr]

Can't go wrong going back to the basics -- and to the established and recognized experts:

 

http://www.emilypost.com/everyday-manners/common-courtesies/479-hats-off-the-who-what-when-where-of-the-hat

 

The article, in part, states:

 

Hats aren't the essential article of clothing they once were but are still worn by both sexes for fashion and for function. Knowing when to remove a hat is as important as wearing the right hat for the occasion. If you were a medieval knight who failed to remove his helmet or lift his visor and identify himself the consequences could be fatal. Throughout history hats identified social standing and removing a hat was a gesture of respect. In the "old days," men took off their hats in Christian churches, when they entered someone's home, when greeting a boss, and always in the presence of a lady. Ladies were entirely exempt from "hat rules," wearing them whenever and where ever they wished. While some of these customs are now historical footnotes, even in today's casual culture men and women still remove their hats as a sign of respect.

It then goes on to itemize when baseball types caps worn *by either sex* should be removed. "At mealtimes, at the table" is just one of the situations described. -- and yes, Emily Post exempts cancer patients from *all* hat rules -- they may keep their hats on when and where they wish.

 

This article certainly won't put the issue to rest and won't convince those who feel they have the right to do whatever whenever, but for what it's worth the Post article can lend some gravitas to the opinion of those who espouse the no-hats/caps/whatever-at-the-table attitude.

 

And for what it's worth -- I have sailed with Cunard several times and was amazed at how people understood and adhered to the suggested dress code for each evening. The baseball caps and cowboy hats came out only on the day of disembarkation; I wondered where all these people had been for the trip, then realized that they had been wearing cocktail dresses, floor length evening gowns and tuxes just like the rest of us! I guess you can -- when you really want to.

 

 

Emily Post ????? Give me a break. Was this from 1967? This is exactly the issue. Times change and society changes. People ... you need to get with the customs of TODAY. You need to EVOLVE or you will go the way of the dodo bird and you'll forget how to fly. Some of you may decide to live in the past and that's fine. Just don't try to stop the rest of us from evolving.

 

Since the subject is about caps, here's an example. In my day, no one even thought about wearing the cap backwards. Today many young people wear them backwards and they even put the names and logos on the rear. I'm ok with that. People should feel free to wear their caps either way in the MDR.

 

People it's your choice, either run with us and the rest of the Big Dogs or stay on the porch.

[dz9yvr]

Sorry,...I meant to say he takes his hat off when a lady aproaches, wherever we are. Outside, of course. He dosen't wear his hat inside at all. :)

 

 

Sorry this tradition stopped when you burned your bras.

[Aquahound]

nevermind

[mailmama]

Emily Post ????? Give me a break. Was this from 1967? This is exactly the issue. Times change and society changes. People ... you need to get with the customs of TODAY. You need to EVOLVE or you will go the way of the dodo bird and you'll forget how to fly. Some of you may decide to live in the past and that's fine. Just don't try to stop the rest of us from evolving.

 

Since the subject is about caps, here's an example. In my day, no one even thought about wearing the cap backwards. Today many young people wear them backwards and they even put the names and logos on the rear. I'm ok with that. People should feel free to wear their caps either way in the MDR.

 

People it's your choice, either run with us and the rest of the Big Dogs or stay on the porch.

Excuse me, since when did good manners go out of style? We in the south still encourage/expect to hear a yes/no ma'am or sir , hats of any type off at the dinner table and a hand shake in greeting. These little curtsies have always been an asset in life.....

[atb]

doesn't damage my vacation - but this is a pet peeve for both DH and myself. He was military - and you remove your "cover" when entering a building.

Me - I always wonder - do they wear their cap to bed, to shower, to (adult activity)? Enquiring minds want to know. ;)