Fight Against Big Ships in Venice and Key West

[Aquahound]

The Conch train is packed on ship days.

 

Yeah, don't even get me started on those stupid things. :D

[Cruising89143]

Yeah, don't even get me started on those stupid things. :D

 

LOL.... I think a good compromise would be only one ship at a time in KW docked at the pier by the resort at Mallory square. Let the cruise lines fight it and the highest bidder wins. :)

[RSLeesburg]

Here is another article about this topic (for Venice)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408410/Venice-ban-cruise-ships-Grand-Canal-tourist-death-prompts-calls-floating-congestion-zone.html

[whyrlygig]

Having been to Key West many times, we are torn on this issue. We were introduced to the island as a cruise stop and had we not been on that ship, we might never had fell in love with it. On the other hand, when we are there on a land trip, we love it when there are no ships in port. Not only do the crowds overwhelm but the ships themselves overwhelm the landscape. If Majesty of the Seas is overwhelming, GADZ! what will happen with Oasis in port? :eek:

[nanwel]

on my last trip to Venice, I had to take off my shoes and wade through about 5 - 6 inches of icky water, and the stone base was rather slimy - would not want to have fallen!!

they have had issues for years, think they should limit the size and volume of ships.

I think KW is an interesting port, I walked around with my grandson in his stroller trying to get him to nap - no way - want out to chase the roaming chickens!

As much as I love cruising, and I did like the Allure, can see where bigger is not always better! Limit size of ships and number of ships!!

[nelblu]

I know that there have been discussions about the large ships in Venice. There was talk of not having them traverse by the Grand Canal and having them dock somewhere near and transport the passengers via other means. On our recently completed Med. cruise on the Serenade which included Venice it seemed to me that the ship was going slower both incoming and outgoing and assisted by tugboat(s). I wonder if it was my imagination or some precautions to avoid/reduce the wakes caused by these ships.

[Mark_K]

Well, I wouldn't say that's true for all of us. I don't have a problem with the ships. However, with the congestion that is caused on the lower end of Duval St, I do avoid the area when there is more than 1 ship in port. I'll be the first to admit, we cannot accomodate an Oasis Class ship.

 

T-Shirt shops? Yeah, we all hate those filthy places.

If you can accommodate Freedom, Serenade, and Ryndam on the same day, you can certainly accommodate Oasis, if it's by itself.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Aquahound]

If you can accommodate Freedom, Serenade, and Ryndam on the same day, you can certainly accommodate Oasis, if it's by itself.

 

Well sure, if it's by itself. But a ship like Oasis has a set, year-long schedule. During the winter months, it would never be by itself. It would be joined by the C. Freedoms, the Serenades, Dreams, etc.

[Cruising89143]

I know that there have been discussions about the large ships in Venice. There was talk of not having them traverse by the Grand Canal and having them dock somewhere near and transport the passengers via other means. On our recently completed Med. cruise on the Serenade which included Venice it seemed to me that the ship was going slower both incoming and outgoing and assisted by tugboat(s). I wonder if it was my imagination or some precautions to avoid/reduce the wakes caused by these ships.

 

We were in Venice mid June which is considered high season for tourists and yes it was busy but not crazy. We stayed two days prior to our cruise. On one day two ships were in port and it was actually not as crowded as the day before when no ships were in port.

 

As I posted on the Celebrity board about this issue. They may eventually ban cruise ships from cruising on their current route but first they have to find a solution as to where the ships can be moved or rerouted. Contracts are in place for the next few years between the cruise lines and the port. Lawsuits will hold this up. We will be back in Venice next June on the Equinox as we end our cruise in Venice with an overnight on the ship. It is without a doubt one of if not the most beautiful places to cruise in and out of.

Edited September 6, 2013 by cruisingator2

[Aquahound]

They may eventually ban cruise ships from cruising on their current route but first they have to find a solution as to where the ships can be moved or rerouted.

 

Isn't there a proposal to dredge the channel to the south in order to avoid transiting Giudecca?

[alfaeric]

They may eventually ban cruise ships from cruising on their current route but first they have to find a solution as to where the ships can be moved or rerouted.

 

From what I'm reading, all ships above a certain size will be banned from that path. For this board, of course, the main interest is cruise ships.

 

I find it interesting that someone proposed a tender kind of idea- I can't see that much better, or actually it can be worse since you would have ships going in and out of a port all day, which, in theory, would erode the port more than one ship per day.

 

Sound more realistic that they will move the port to a different location in the bay.

 

It was interesting that some groups want to ban all shipping from the bay, thus stopping many centuries of shipping to that area- the whole reason that Venice and the surrounding area is there in the first place, end it. Not sure if that really makse sense, considering the number of people who count on the shipping and ship building industry in the area.

 

Isn't there a proposal to dredge the channel to the south in order to avoid transiting Giudecca?

 

sort of like dredging the channel to allow bigger cruise ships to key west? :D:p

 

I suspect the fight over that will be similar to the one you are seeing at home.

 

It will be a very interesting fight in both places. Totally different kinds of economic impacts, too.

[Annefran]

I have to say that stopping here as a port on one of my cruises is how I fell in love with Key West and have visited several times since to a favorite bed and breakfast. I love visiting the artists shops.....did a lot of shopping on my Majesty stop this past january!!!!

 

Sometimes it is the more affordable way to visit this beautiful oasis via cruise ship as a night in a hotel or bed and breakfast is almost the price of a cabin on a cruise.

 

While I can understand getting around town would be very difficult if an Oasis size ship was able to call on Key West, to me as a cruiser it is a thousand percent better to see this port on my itinerary than Nassau. I would also expect to pay higher port fees to visit. Weren't the port fees increased in Alaska a few years ago to help with environmental impact issues? Not sure but I remember screaming here on the boards about the higher fees.

 

Not sure I will visit Venice anytime soon but I sure hope to keep visiting Key West.

 

You hit the nail on the head here, I feel the same way. We have stopped in Key West 3 times on Majesty and the Enchantment in the past. We fell in love with Key West and are planning a trip back in the near future sans a cruise ship. We will just go stay at a beach hotel for a few days to really experience the whole place. I get why they don't want the larger ships there. Although I wish they could accomodate the Voyage class and nothing larger. We would definitely cruise there in the future. Wejust enjoy the smaller ships like Majesty or smaller ships anymore and try to cruise on Voyager class or above. Happy Cruising!

[K1200S]

I have only ridden to Key West on my motorcycle a couple of times. What I enjoy about Key West is the way it is. I have been there when a ship was in port and found it much nicer when there wasn't a ship in port.

[PCWalton1]

I went to Key West on Jewel back in May, she was the only ship in port for the day. That has been my only trip to Key West though I would love to go there for a longer stay.

Since it was our first visit we of course went to all the tourist sights and it seemed extremely crowded with just Jewel in port. Hate to see it with an Oasis size ship. :eek:

 

Bill

[Mark_K]

Well sure, if it's by itself. But a ship like Oasis has a set, year-long schedule. During the winter months, it would never be by itself. It would be joined by the C. Freedoms, the Serenades, Dreams, etc.

It currently has a set schedule, but based on what you read on these boards, customers would be very pleased if they mixed it up a little with some alternatives.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Cruising89143]

Isn't there a proposal to dredge the channel to the south in order to avoid transiting Giudecca?

 

I read that too. The other option was to use Porto Marghera which is basically an industrial port. That would require busing and taxi to Venice but is not far but would also require strutures that can handle embarking and debarking passengers from terminals. Either way it will take some time to come up with an alternate solution. I don't see this happening for a few years if even then.

Edited September 6, 2013 by cruisingator2

[Aquahound]

Although I wish they could accomodate the Voyage class and nothing larger.

 

As it stands right now, they can. All 3 of Carnival's Dream Class ships have been here, and they are about the same size. To date, it's been RCI preventing it, not Key West.

 

But that said, we're still watiing to see the future itineraries and an answer for why they "tested" the Key West channel and harbor with the Mariner last year.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Aquahound

[Cruising89143]

From today on Seatrader:

 

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news/news-headlines/venice-cruise-allies-forcefully-rebut-claims-of-carnival-sunshine-salute.html

[LindaO]

I think it is difficult to put Venice and Key West in the same "pool"... Venice has HUGE infrastructure problems dating back years and years and years. Venice has neglected to use the taxes collected from cruise ships to make a dent into these problems. The government is notorious for gleening fees and taxes and not properly appropriating them. For example the sewage system in Venice is 100s of years out of date, foundations even of government buildings are crumbling and water diversion systems are non-existent. Port improvements are rare. Yet rather than taking the tax dollars from cruise ships and earmarking it for port and basic city improvements that money has been finding it's way only to the "middle men" -- (I'm trying to be as politically correct as I can here...) This city relies on tourist money for survival. The merchants need tourists. The general population of Venice will never see any of the tax moneys from cruise ships -- and they blame the cruise ships -- where they should be looking at the politicians and asking.. Where is the money??? The port authority there allows cruises ships in and out... along with large vessels. The port authority guides the traffic... so if there is a problem with traffic they can hold out ships... until safe passage can be made. But... as in many places in the world... it is more politics than ability. Will any of this change? Has it changed in the past 50 or 100 years.. no... I just wanted to say... it isn't the wake of the ship... it is all dollars and no sense...

Key West.... is another story. A city founded on tourism... expanded because of tourism... and maintaining because of tourism... will continue to draw tourists. It is funny that the "people" with the loud voices are now against tourists. All tourist towns have this "love / hate" relationship with tourists. Love the money... leave it here... but wait... don't come in big numbers and upset my afternoon.... Can Key West do something to change the pier area to accommodate large number? Should they? I don't know... I do know that if they "ban" cruise ships... they do so with severe economic consequences. I, for one, would not book a cruise just because it goes to Key West....

[Ocean Boy]

The general population of Venice will never see any of the tax moneys from cruise ships -- and they blame the cruise ships -- where they should be looking at the politicians and asking.. Where is the money???

 

Italians are not stupid. They know where the money is.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Ocean Boy

[LindaO]

Italians are not stupid. They know where the money is.

 

I never said... nor implied that Italians were stupid... I have no idea why you would say that... nor do I know what all Italians know.... I never said any of those things... and if you interpreted my words to mean such, you are mistaken.

[sailinglisa]

Personally, I think that ports have the absolute right to decide what is right for them and what they do not want to have happen in their ports. Key West knows exactly what cruise ship passengers bring to them and what the negative those visitors do. If they want to restrict the cruise ship pax to x number per day and want them long gone before sunset, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT!!!!! They should NOT bend to the cruiselines wants. It could ruin their port and the way of life on the island.

 

Same goes for Venice. There was a video posted on YouTube about a photographer taking pictures from the end of the inlet to Port Everglades while a large cruise ship sailed past. It was amazing how fast the water returned after the cruise ship passes -and the videographer had to be rescued from the beach after the ship passes - the water's return was absolutely amazing and scary! Now, think about the water displacement in Venice where there are NO buffers between the water and the city itself.

Edited September 7, 2013 by sailinglisa
spelling

[Aquahound]

Personally, I think that ports have the absolute right to decide what is right for them and what they do not want to have happen in their ports. Key West knows exactly what cruise ship passengers bring to them and what the negative those visitors do. If they want to restrict the cruise ship pax to x number per day and want them long gone before sunset, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT!!!!! They should NOT bend to the cruiselines wants. It could ruin their port and the way of life on the island.

 

Part of the problem we have in Key West is, one of the city commissioners owns a large bar complex. If you've been here, it the Ricks/Durty Harry's/Red Garter complex across from Sloppy Joes. So as expected, his votes are always that which benefit him. He's unethical and a direct result of dirty, small town politics.

 

He didn't say much here, but this an interesting article from a year ago about the tourism dollars and the ongoing argument over this issue:

 

http://keysnews.com/node/41845

[joe6666]

I do know they are having tidal issues there. The larger the ship, the more water that gets displaced. When they have high tides, especially around Fall time, a passing cruise ship is not a good thing.

 

I'm sure there issues that we dont know about other than just the numerous amounts of tourists these places draw. Sometimes the local people do know what is best for their communities both economically and sustainability of the constant traffic due to the tourism. I believe we should at least listen to all the issues and find out the most effective way to preserve both of these beautiful places for future generations.

 

What?

You say a cruise ship tied up in Key West causes high tides?

[bigeagle12]

Part of the problem we have in Key West is, one of the city commissioners owns a large bar complex. If you've been here, it the Ricks/Durty Harry's/Red Garter complex across from Sloppy Joes. So as expected, his votes are always that which benefit him. He's unethical and a direct result of dirty, small town politics.

 

He didn't say much here, but this an interesting article from a year ago about the tourism dollars and the ongoing argument over this issue:

 

http://keysnews.com/node/41845

 

Gotta love local politics. Sounds like it is time to get rid of some politicians. Our county has been aggressively getting rid of our county commissioners. Some have gone to jail others are being voted out of office .. it has been great to watch and participate. Some people thought they were in for life are now serving jail terms, which I wish were for life :-)