Canceling gratuity

[TraelorMex]

We have cruised many times with HAL. I am always amazed at the very friendly attitude of the service folks, whether in the Lido or polishing the brass...always a kind word and nice smile. I have seen these same people DOG TIRED from working long hours, and still offer a kind word and nice smile.

And yet there are those heartless souls (and you know who you are) who would deny these gracious people their hard-earned 'tips'.

Shame on you. Amazed, simply amazed... :(

[Wakepatrol]

Maybe I was wrong, but I was led to believe that the cabin stewards routinely work 12 hour days. At a low of 8 bucks an hour plus time and a half(you state that the Dutch labor laws are more generous than ours) for those 4 hours, that's at least $100 bucks a day, probably 6 days a week. If they're making that much, I find it hard to believe that they would need any more to support a family in Indonesia or the Philippines. From the Cruise Director's talk, I was led to believe that they depend on our tips for the majority of their pay. I believe about 40% of our daily gratuity goes to the behind the scenes staff(kitchen, laundry, et al) and the rest goes to the front of the house and room stewards. Please explain to me where I've gone wrong. Am I mistaken about the salary or am I mistaken about the cost of living in those countries where these workers come from? Or am I mistaken about the majority of their pay coming from gratuities?

 

So all Indonesians and Filipino workers can get buy on the same amount of money each across the board?

 

One might have no kids and one might have three.

 

One might be supporting parents.

 

 

One might be paying for their kids colleges.

 

Every situation is different. They all can't get by on the same amount of money.

 

Last week a poster claimed HAL didn't x-ray the checked baggage before it went on the ship. I though this was ridiculous.

 

 

You just topped them.

[Vict0riann]

The staff is not underpaid, they are paid through the mechanism of the Hotel Service CHARGE. That is not a tip or gratuity - it is a fee for services rendered, and the only legitimate reason for removing it is if satisfactory service is not provided, after having brought any problems to the attention of those who can correct such problems.

 

Exactly! I think if a passenger removed the hotel service charge it would be an indication that he/she felt the service was deficient. So, unless you have major problems with the service you receive (and you won't!) - and I'm not talking about toilets that take a while to flush - you should leave the hsc in place, and just give a personal "extra" to those staff who have really helped to make your trip special. Now that I'm home I miss my stewards. Wish I could have brought them home with me!

 

As an aside, when my daughter was waitressing in the US, she received much less than minimum wage, because she was expected to make it up with tips. So much for "living wage". Some countries do pay wait staff better, and then customers feel they don't need to tip, but certainly not in the States!

[RuthC]

As an aside, when my daughter was waitressing in the US, she received much less than minimum wage, because she was expected to make it up with tips. So much for "living wage". Some countries do pay wait staff better, and then customers feel they don't need to tip, but certainly not in the States!

That's an important point. I can appreciate that passengers who come from a non-tipping culture may have trouble accepting tipping as sop, but for someone from the US to be so adamantly opposed does not make sense to me.

If Americans are used to ever going out to dinner, then tipping on a ship (or giving gratuities, or paying a service charge) should be the norm.

[hrhdhd]

There are cruise line that included tipping in the fare, they are a far expensive than Holland America.

 

This may be true sometimes, but I can sail on Azamara (gratuities included) as a solo for 125% and pay about the same as the 200% on HAL. Soda, enough alcohol choices for me, shuttles in various ports, and self-serve laundry (no charge for washer, dryer, soap) also included. That makes AZ cheaper for me.

[doublebzz]

They're flagged in the Netherlands which has more generous labour laws than the USA.

 

Are you sure these labour laws apply to onboard staff?

[Thebes]

That's an important point. I can appreciate that passengers who come from a non-tipping culture may have trouble accepting tipping as sop, but for someone from the US to be so adamantly opposed does not make sense to me.

If Americans are used to ever going out to dinner, then tipping on a ship (or giving gratuities, or paying a service charge) should be the norm.

 

Agree. I had a college job as a waiter 15 years ago. My base pay was $2.60 in Ohio, US. Waiters in many parts of the world have a decent salary and if they get tips, that's great. If not no big deal

US pays generously to a very specific population , waiters and many other professions are not included unfortunately.

[Thebes]

Just as an aside, you can also modify the HSC upwards. I did that on the Zaandam when I was on anytime dining and it was not practical to directly tip the waiters. I did tip my cabin stewards extra and when they thanked me it was obvious they knew the extra was theirs to keep.

 

Roy

 

How did u make sure the extra HSC went to the dinner waiters when you were on anytime dining ??

[rafinmd]

How did u make sure the extra HSC went to the dinner waiters when you were on anytime dining ??

 

It didn't but they got a fair share of it.

 

Roy

[iancal]

We would NEVER remove the tips from our cabin. Would not even think of doing it. We tip on top, and selectively, for good service.

[cruz chic]

This may be true sometimes, but I can sail on Azamara (gratuities included) as a solo for 125% and pay about the same as the 200% on HAL. Soda, enough alcohol choices for me, shuttles in various ports, and self-serve laundry (no charge for washer, dryer, soap) also included. That makes AZ cheaper for me.

 

Thanks for that info. I didn't know that:).

[Wakepatrol]

This may be true sometimes, but I can sail on Azamara (gratuities included) as a solo for 125% and pay about the same as the 200% on HAL. Soda, enough alcohol choices for me, shuttles in various ports, and self-serve laundry (no charge for washer, dryer, soap) also included. That makes AZ cheaper for me.

 

 

Once I read, I could sit in a laundromat and wash my clothes for free while on vacation.

 

I was putty in the hands of the Azmara booking agent:o

[take us away]

Fully agree to never cancel the HSC as this also tips the behind the scenes people like the laundry people and the people who make the soup. We also tip extra for services from individual crew members. These people make almost nothing on a monthly / weekly basis and most of that goes home to support often extended families. Come on people, you spend thousands on a cruise and you really should not begrudge your steward his $3-4 a day for cleaning your room twice a day and providing extra attention to whatever you ask for and whenever you ask for it or the minor amount provided to the person who keeps the public rooms in usually spotless condition and to the cook who makes the soup. Each hotel area has a cast of hundreds that provide service to make your cruise an exceptional experience so let's keep life in perspective!

[take us away]

Maybe I was wrong, but I was led to believe that the cabin stewards routinely work 12 hour days. At a low of 8 bucks an hour plus time and a half(you state that the Dutch labor laws are more generous than ours) for those 4 hours, that's at least $100 bucks a day, probably 6 days a week. If they're making that much, I find it hard to believe that they would need any more to support a family in Indonesia or the Philippines. From the Cruise Director's talk, I was led to believe that they depend on our tips for the majority of their pay. I believe about 40% of our daily gratuity goes to the behind the scenes staff(kitchen, laundry, et al) and the rest goes to the front of the house and room stewards. Please explain to me where I've gone wrong. Am I mistaken about the salary or am I mistaken about the cost of living in those countries where these workers come from? Or am I mistaken about the majority of their pay coming from gratuities?

 

Hate to say this but the room stewards DO NOT make anywhere near that kind of money. Labor laws do not apply to ships. A few years ago, cabin stewards were paid $100 A MONTH from the cruise line!

[CruiserBruce]

Hate to say this but the room stewards DO NOT make anywhere near that kind of money. Labor laws do not apply to ships. A few years ago, cabin stewards were paid $100 A MONTH from the cruise line!

 

How many years ago? That sounds a little like an Internet legend.

 

The facts are most cruise lines pay their staff according to an industry wide union agreement. Looking here:

 

http://www.cruiseshipjob.com/hotel.htm

 

The pay for a cabin steward is $1800-2200/month, depending on how tips are shared/apportioned. The assistant gets $12-1500/month. Again depending on tips. As HAL uses two stewards per cabin- don't think one is an assistant- assume they are both paid as stewards.

 

Remember they get housing, food, uniforms, medical care and a number of other benefits for little or no cost.

 

Yes, they work very hard, and in 99% of the time, earn every penny in the Hotel Service Charge. They are also strictly evaluated, based mostly on comments form the pax.

[lovesublime]

On a Carnival cruise, I noticed on the service cart a listing of all cabins that attendant was responsible for. It indicated whether pre-paid gratuities were paid or not alongside each cabin number. I suspect those cabins that elected not to pre-pay gratuities received less care than those who did.

 

 

 

This is not true. Carnival allows the options to prepay gratuities at the time of booking or for gratuities to be added day by day to the sign and sail account automatically. We always opt for the tips to be added to our account on a daily basis. I seriously doubt our name has ever been on any kind of "list" and our service has always been great. There is no reason at all to "pre-pay" gratuities, as you put it, on Carnival.

[Lovely other]

Hate to say this but the room stewards DO NOT make anywhere near that kind of money. Labor laws do not apply to ships. A few years ago, cabin stewards were paid $100 A MONTH from the cruise line!

 

which means they take home the same pay as me ...i still wouldn't take off the tip though because i know what its like to be in that situation and because i'm lucky enough to have someone else purchase this trip for me.

 

i think being from a non-tipping culture us brits find it hard to get our head around the figure involved but i would have thought that US folks would just see it as the norm and not have an issue with it.

[BruceMuzz]

At the risk of being firebombed, I'm going to comment on something that's bothered me each time I've cruised and it stays with me each time for at least a few weeks. The cruise lines make it very clear by soliciting tips for the crew during the voyage that the staff is underpaid. These companies operate for the most part in the US, yet they get around our labor laws by being flagged elsewhere. I'm sure that they pay their CEO's huge salaries. One of my all time favorite Americans said "you're either part of the problem or part of the solution" so you know that I'm not some bleeding heart. Why can't these lines pay their employees a living wage and pass the costs on to the passengers? Either way we are going to pay, but wouldn't it be easier if we didn't have to put up with the Cruise director's constant shilling?

 

Shouldn't you be chasing the Hotels, Restaurants, Bars, Taxi Companies, and Stevedoring Union in San Diego?? All these companies make it very clear that tips are expected, thereby admitting that the staff is underpaid. These companies operate for the most part in the US, yet they get around paying a fair wage by expecting you to subsidize the salaries of many of their employees. I'm sure they pay their CEO's huge salaries. Why can't these companies pay their employees a living wage and pass the costs on to the customers?

[S_D_Sweet_Dougie]

Yes, but in California, there's no way to get around paying minimum wage. What I'm saying is that I don't believe that the Cruise lines have to pay minimum wage or mandatory overtime after 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week. And Taxi Drivers are independent contractors. When I tended bar in the mid 90's, I made 8 bucks an hour and it was rare that I didn't go home with at least a hundred bucks in my pocket.

[KruiserKat]

My wife and I have taken several full World Cruises plus a number of 60+ day cruises. We have never removed our tips nor have we had reason to do so. Most times we add $$$ to individuals.

 

After numerous discussions with people who remove their tips, they do so for one reason: TO SAVE MONEY!!! They say they tip lavishly, but enjoy handing their envelope to individuals, but the standard for a 120 day WC is just short of $3000.00. Nobody I met ever mentioned leaving envelopes totaling even close to that!

 

I feel the gratuity is part of the trip. Everyone may not agree with this, but let's be honest as to the reason!

[BruceMuzz]

Yes, but in California, there's no way to get around paying minimum wage. What I'm saying is that I don't believe that the Cruise lines have to pay minimum wage or mandatory overtime after 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week. And Taxi Drivers are independent contractors. When I tended bar in the mid 90's, I made 8 bucks an hour and it was rare that I didn't go home with at least a hundred bucks in my pocket.

 

Of course there is a way to get around paying minimum wage in California - you just pay them MORE than the minimum. That's a no-brainer, and it's exactly what you want the cruise lines to do.

 

You are wrong about wages and overtime for cruise line employees. The maritime unions and the International Labor Organization (part of the UN) have negotiated very strict union contracts for all employees, and have established international standards for wages, rest hours, and mandatory overtime. The new Maritime Labor Convention (Google MLC2006) that just took effect last month makes those rules even stronger.

 

All cruise line employees are independent contractors - just like the taxi drivers in San Diego. We all sign employment contracts with our employers, specifying wages, benefits, overtime, perks, and other requirements - as well as the length of the employment. When the contract ends after several months, we are unemployed and go home. When we get home, another contract is waiting (hopefully) for us to sign, and we have the choice to contract ourselves to work for another several months.

 

So why are you not looking a bit closer to home to get those injustices fixed in your own back yard first?

[ScriptOhio]

Oh boy....time to get in the recliner, and load up the popcorn.

 

You got that right....

 

[AlohaPride]

Don't forget there are a lot of "behind the scene" people that this is also given to.

Yes, people are correct about them having to turn in any tip if you have removed the auto tip. We tip extra for those people who have really made a big difference in our experience...but that is in addition to the auto tip...so they are allowed to keep that. There are always some people who seem to make our day now and then...the ice cream lady was amazed we would give her a little extra, but she had always been such fun and so cheerful.

 

This is what I was going to point out. Yes, you give tips to those you see, but what about those you don't see?

[hrhdhd]

Once I read, I could sit in a laundromat and wash my clothes for free while on vacation.

 

I was putty in the hands of the Azmara booking agent:o

 

Har har.

 

The point was that after one includes all of the unincluded stuff in the HAL fare, those more expensive cruise lines don't look quite so expensive.

[scluvsrain]

hal is doing away with cruise director's disembarkation talk so no more 'constant shilling' as you put it.

 

On our recent veendam cruise, there was no disembarkation talk, disembark worked fine and they said all the ships will be following this new plan.

 

 

yay!!!