Carnivalization of Celebrity??

[Seapoint]

Lets get back to the issue. On last weeks Reflection sailing, the volume of the music was ridiculously loud. It was so loud at sail-away at the main pool that I could not talk to the person right next to me. The music was so loud that the speakers completely distorted sound. So loud that I could feel it vibrating through my body.

 

At the well attended CC gathering, NOT ONE passenger said that the volume was ok. Many complained it was too loud. The response from Celebrity was that this is the way it is, that no adjustment will be made, this will be taken fleet-wide, and if you don't like it, find another cruise line!

 

So far, in just a few days, there have been about 17,000 views of this thread and the Loudness thread. That should alert Celebrity to the fact that this is a real and serious concern.

 

When I sail on Royal Caribbean, I expect loud music. However, the music on Royal was never as loud as on the Reflection! Based on my many previous experiences with Celebrity, I did not expect to be blasted on the Reflection. Celebrity needs to be honest with its customers in defining what "Modern Luxury" means. Its advertising certainly gives no indication that this will not be an upscale, refined cruise experience.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Seapoint

[Germancruiser]

...and what if some of " the older generation" does like the music " for 8 year olds" ?

[curtdesilets]

Free all-you-can-drink alcohol promotions just seem like a bad idea to begin with.

 

This will be our first cruise with the potential of the "123 alcoholics" on board. I truly hope it isn't a negative experience for us. :mad:

 

It's always better to pay for a nice drink and slowly savor and enjoy it rather than this all-inclusive BS they are promoting.

 

I wonder also how it will affect the bar service. My wife and I enjoy a martini before dinner, perhaps a glass of wine with dinner and a Rusty Nail during Bingo. All-you-can-drink does not appeal to us.

Edited March 7, 2014 by curtdesilets
Clarification

[wallie5446]

Change to Disney! There they play music for 8 year olds. It's a small world after all!

 

...and what if some of " the older generation" does like the music " for 8 year olds" ?

Ya'll are so bad! Now all I can see is standing in that line with my DD 25 years ago and her singing 'It's a small world after all' for hours and days on end:D

[wallie5446]

This will be our first cruise with the potential of the "123 alcoholics" on board. I truly hope it isn't a negative experience for us. :mad:

 

It's always better to pay for a nice drink and slowly savor and enjoy it rather than this all-inclusive BS they are promoting.

 

I wonder also how it will effect the bar service.

We were on Reflection last Nov and the were no 'ill behaved' alcoholics to be seen. The drink packages have been sold for awhile now. It is the non alcoholic items we enjoy the most. We would have spent more on Perrier, water, juice, expresso, coffee, and tea than the premium package cost. The all-inclusive BS they are promoting is what made it affordable for us to book our first sailing longer than 7 days this Nov.

Bar service was great, and after sailing 7 diff lines over 25 years, the wifester said the Reflection pasted the Zenith as her now favorite ship.

Negative, no, unless we make it so:D

A martini, wine, rusty nail! We did not drink that much booze all day, let alone in a few hours in the evening.

Edited March 7, 2014 by wallie5446

[curtdesilets]

Thanks for the Info, Wallie:

 

We were on Reflection last Nov and the were no 'ill behaved' alcoholics to be seen.

 

- - - -

 

I was just concerned that the ship might be full of heavy, heavy drinkers snapping there fingers for more and more free drinks. I'm glad it seems restrained.

 

We did Crystal before and after the switch to all-inclusive. Service was far better before it went all-inclusive.

 

I still think it's a bad idea, overall.

Edited March 7, 2014 by curtdesilets
clarification, forgot to quote

[wallie5446]

Thanks for the Info, Wallie:

 

 

- - - -

 

I was just concerned that the ship might be full of heavy, heavy drinkers snapping there fingers for more and more free drinks. I'm glad it seems restrained.

 

We did Crystal before and after the switch to all-inclusive. Service was far better before it went all-inclusive.

 

I still think it's a bad idea, overall.

 

Here is a look at one of our days I did for someone else to give a better picture and help them decide if the package would be any value to them.

 

One thing I will mention, wine by the bottle is not covered by the pkg, just discounted. At dinner we would order by the glass and the Som ended up leaving the bottle on the table to avoid making so many trips

 

For us at least, the package was not just about drinks, It was everything else that the pkg includes.

 

A speciality coffee each on the balcony while the wifester is putting on her face, $5 ea.

 

Evian or San Pellegrino with fresh squeezed juice with that second coffee at breakfast, $15 ea.

 

Grab a bottle water on the way to stake out a deck chair, $4 ea.

$24 each before any mind altering liquid is consumed.

 

A beer or the drink of the day by the pool, $6 ea

Then off to lunch, maybe a soda, or another San Pellegrino $5 ea

The sun is hot hot hot! A cold beer or drink of the day is in order, $6 ea

The burger at the Mast Grill is calling our names, it does not go down with out some liquid assistance, $5 ea, then it is time to meet friends to watch the sun set from the Sunset Bar, $6 ea. Afternoon total $28.

And the evening fun has yet to begin.

San Pellegrino and a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, and another speciality coffee with desert, $26 ea

Now it is time for some mind altering sampling to happen, or not A cocktail with friends at one of the watering holes on ship $7 ea, or 2 if we are letting our hair down!

One more bottle water on the way back to the cabin just in case we get thirsty during the night, $4. Evening total, $44.

Morning, $24, day, $28, evening $44, total $96.00 if we did not have a pkg,each useing the low end of the cost scale and not much mind altering substance.

Some evening's we will grab another coffee ( or worse) and go and sit on deck 5 to unwind, listen to the swoosh of the waves gently breaking down the side of the ship before heading to the cabin, to each his own, it works for us.

[Purplsmurf]

My experience has been positive. Never saw any drunks and the service is fine. Actually might even be better cuz if one has the drink pkg there is no need for receipts, etc. a swipe of the card is all they need if that....especially once the bartenders get to know you then they don't even bother with the card. Love the drink pkg!!

 

 

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[baldercash]

Wow! What a waste of valuable cruise time. I sure hope you are joking. I can't imagine anyone would do this on vacation.

 

I posted many on cruise ships are not vacationing they are traveling on the ship they have nothing but time until they get to their destination.

If I can take a 2 week cruise to get to Europe and then spend a month traveling about and take an 8 day river cruise before boarding a ship to take another 14 day cruise back to America and then get on a 14 day trans Panama cruise from Florida to San Diego simply because I am there it is because I have nothing but time and possibly some disposable income. I and many others have time to complain about ridiculous policies.

 

People are upset about it, if you read the thread thoroughly we have people stating they are the only ones at a venue and would like to have a drink but ask to please turn the volume down and they are told no so they walk away!

Does this make sense to you as a business plan on any level?

 

I have not encountered this crazy 100 or so decibel music but if I do on an X cruise I will now not just walk away I pay good money to enjoy my cruise not to be driven out by excessively loud music! How is this a Modern Luxury experience?

Sounds more like inadequate management and someone should be taken to task for it.

 

I am amazed that there are so many posters who continue to claim it is about the music if they bothered to read the posts it is about the volume not the tunes.

Frightening the lack of comprehension and grasp of the complaint they embarrass them selves when they keep saying it is the music genre and people want to listen to nothing bit oldies.

People want to be able to listen to each other and the music if it is worthy.

 

This is what I have gleaned from reading the threads....

It is very loud music, so loud you need to shout to the bartender to order and you cannot have a conversation with the person next to you. It occurs at random times and venues. Sometimes they will turn the volume down other times patrons are told they cannot so nothing is consistent.

 

I would suggest that the Hotel & Restaurant manager is the appropriate level to voice complaints to while on board?

Edited March 7, 2014 by baldercash

[purpletequila]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

 

SOOOO happy to see this reply. I am actually, if the rumors are true, one of the people you'd be trying to attract age and dollars spent wise, BUT, I do not want to be blasted with ultra loud music the whole cruise as the ability to relax while having some drinks is important.

 

Again, thanks for the response and I hope to see another one soon as I was thisclose to canceling my upcoming Reflection cruise.

[purpletequila]

Dear Celebrity,

I have been lurking here reading....Just want to say that for all the people who are posting here, there are many others, like me, who are lurking.....We have experienced the loud music in the atrium and have been driven out of some of our favorite areas of the ship, the last time being on a TA on Silhouette, 2012. We were so turned off with music volume in the atrium that we made our opinions known with Mr Bayley's office upon our return. We had one conversation with a representative from Mr Bayley's office who suggested we try other cruiselines.....very similar to what people are reporting that the CD of Reflection said recently.

 

We have cruised many times with Celebrity, usually 2-3 cruises a year. In 2013, we decided to take land vacations instead. Fast forward to now....we are trying two other cruise lines, one being Oceania looking for an experience like we used to have on Celebrity!! It is really sad that we have to look elsewhere because we were happy with X in practically every other way.

 

We do have one more cruise booked on Century and I hope that we will not experience the loud music, although Host Andy and others mentioned that they did on a recent cruise after dry dock. It really must be scary to new X cruisers to see all these complaints on CC about the music. As a shareholder and a customer, I hope you have some definitive statements on future changes as to the volume of music soon! This must be bad for the X brand !!

 

Most definitely is. I am hoping to hear more from the reps here because seriously, I'm thinking about canceling based on these reviews. I am not old, can differentiate between pop and rap, drink many drinks daily, use the spa and buy the 5 dinner package. None of this means I want loud music blasted the whole cruise. Sail away parties or other deck parties or hey, I dont even mind it at the pool all day. But this talk of it being everywhere all the time with no escape concerns me. There absolutely should be silent refuge somewhere other than your cabin.

[terrierjohn]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

 

Hi Patty,

 

Please consider us to be Celebrity's representative. We work in Miami, and this was only brought to our attention yesterday when we first saw the post. This issue actually has nothing to do with demographics or our audience. We want everyone on our ship to be happy, and to have an enjoyable cruise.

 

We are looking into this issue, and will make any changes if necessary.

As a fairly recent convert to Celebrity, especially their S class ships, I am very happy to see that my chosen favourite cruise line is watching and listening to the comments of its Cruise Critic passengers.

During my cruises I have occasioinally noticed overloud music mainly on the deck, but not all the time and not enough to put me off.

However I did find the comments about targetting a younger demographic a little concerning, although I can well understand any holiday supplier wanting to maximise the spending potential of their clients.

To this end it would certainly make interesting reading if Celebrity, or any cruise line, did disclose the range and value of on board spending by age groups.

It might in fact be beneficial to Celebrity by encouraging some in the lesser spending groups to up their game so as not to be overlooked.

[CABINET]

I do wonder (cynically) whether Celebrity would be happy to lose some of their loyal customer base.

 

Others have pointed out that those who have cruised many many times are not likely to spend money on such things as ships excursions or purchase overpriced items in the shops.

 

We have also met several elites who, having drunk "free" at the elite parties, then drink no more alcohol for the rest of the evening. Certainly we sat next to many couples in Blu on our last cruise who just asked for water with their meal.

 

Apparently there are so many elites on some cruises that vouchers for three (!) drinks are given out instead.

 

They may have shot themselves in the foot by rewarding loyalty too generously.

 

On the other hand I do not believe for one minute that they will be able to replace most of these loyal (and older) passengers with new younger ones. Certainly not on the longer cruises anyway.

[waterbug123]

 

It's always better to pay for a nice drink and slowly savor and enjoy it rather than this all-inclusive BS they are promoting.

 

Good grief, the two are not mutually exclusive. Having an all-inclusive drink package does not mean one is chugging drinks as fast as possible. Do you always generalize like that?

 

 

We were on Reflection last Nov and the were no 'ill behaved' alcoholics to be seen.

 

I was just concerned that the ship might be full of heavy, heavy drinkers snapping there fingers for more and more free drinks. I'm glad it seems restrained.

 

I've been on Celebrity 4 times and have never seen anyone snapping their fingers to get their next free drink. And as someone else mentioned, one can hit $25 or $30 a day before any alcohol is purchased. I tend to drink 3-4 large bottles of water a day, and those are what- $4 or $5 each? Add a specialty coffee from Il Bacio in the morning and another after dinner, plus maybe a diet coke or a glass of fresh squeezed orange juice, and at that point it literally takes only a couple of top shelf cocktails or glasses of wine to break even on the premium package.

[TravelerThom]

Curious, is there a place to find out what capacity ships sail at? ...

Good question. Using some of the sites you reference one can get an idea of how many cabins are still for sale on any particular future sailing, but even if you kept track of those (and that's WAY more work than I'm willing to do [unless someone will pay me big bucks:p]) you still don't have the industry standard which is "occupancy". 100% occupancy equals every stateroom having two passengers. Given that many staterooms have extra berths and often passengers in those extra berths, occupancy rate is usually over 100%. In FY 2012 RCCL (that's the parent corporation) average occupancy across all their companies was 104.4% (lower than 2011's 104.9% but higher than 2010's 104.3%). These corporation wide annual figures come from their required 10-K annual filings with the SEC. I suspect that further breakdown to a particular cruise line (eg Celebrity) is considered proprietary.

 

For information Oasis of the Seas can sail at 116.5% occupancy and still be SOLAS compliant. I THINK this figure is higher than most ships, but it does give an idea of what is possible. I have sailed O-class four times (never during school holidays [eg summer vacations, Christmas, etc] when occupancies are highest), and have always been over 110% occupancy.

 

Thom

[wallie5446]

 

I was thisclose to canceling my upcoming Reflection cruise.

 

, I'm thinking about canceling based on these reviews. But this talk of it being everywhere all the time with no escape

 

Based on our sailing you would be skipping the best ship we, ( crankie 60 year olds ) have sailed in 25 years. We were on the Ruby Princess in 2012, our friends loved it, I thought it was OK, my wife hated it and will not look at sailing with them anymore. Yet she still talks about the balcony dinning as the best on ship experience ever! Go figure. Please make sure and let us know how your sailing was when you return.

[librarylady19]

You are very, very wrong. My 20-30-40 something friends and I are all loving cruising on Celebrity. Not all of us want a playground, slides, ropes, most of us find VIP Bottle service a bit tacky and cheesy, many of us AVOID CARNIVAL AT ALL COST! We want cool DJ music, fun modern music at the pool, decent drinks, reasonable entertainment, comfortable cabin, a busy bustling martini bar, and just good service and value for money. We enjoy a formal night or 2 to get out our best 'duds' and have a nice evening. Celebrity has been providing that in spades, and each time I board another cruise, they are getting things even closer to what we love about vacationing.

 

We've cruised Transatlantics and in the caribbean, met many others like us on these trips, and now plan our vacations around cruising rather than land trips. Somehow Celebrity has been calling, and we have come running!

 

I'm also very happy to see them finally enhancing the Suite experience. I was about to think of trying Norwegian, but now don't have to.

 

All in all, I think its a great business decision by X to keep current with current trends. I suppose if they are wrong with this decisions, we'll see them bankrupt in a couple years. Only time will tell. I do think also, they are pushing some of their older crowd out of the boat so to speak, but also think there is still plenty to do on the ship no matter what age one may be.

 

To make a REAL decision on the policy, it's best to understand the onboard spending of the new incoming generation versus the long time cruisers. I suspect the incoming generation has a higher spend, thus delivers higher profit margins, thus increased shareholder value - the bottom line is all that matters since they are a publicly traded company.

 

The voice of reason.....I applaud your well stated comments!!!!! It's a business folks, don't like it - move on.

[S.O.C.I.O.C.A.T.s]

Obviously Celebrity has not heard of the Oldsmobile debacle. Oldsmobile in the 80s thought their demographic was getting too old and they wanted the younger generation. In a series of famous ads, "This is not your father's Oldsmobile" including William Shatner of Star Trek fame, they buzzed the airwaves. It backfired on them as the young never intended to buy the cars and their loyal customers (the seniors) decided that if Oldsmobile did not want them, they would reciprocate by not wanting Oldsmobile. Oldsmobile soon disappeared into history as another company that shot themselves in the foot trying to be something they were not.

pah

[curtdesilets]

Good grief, the two are not mutually exclusive. Having an all-inclusive drink package does not mean one is chugging drinks as fast as possible. Do you always generalize like that?

 

 

 

 

I've been on Celebrity 4 times and have never seen anyone snapping their fingers to get their next free drink. And as someone else mentioned, one can hit $25 or $30 a day before any alcohol is purchased. I tend to drink 3-4 large bottles of water a day, and those are what- $4 or $5 each? Add a specialty coffee from Il Bacio in the morning and another after dinner, plus maybe a diet coke or a glass of fresh squeezed orange juice, and at that point it literally takes only a couple of top shelf cocktails or glasses of wine to break even on the premium package.

 

We have not been on Celebrity for a couple of years, and the 123 drink packages are a new thing since then. I was just wondering if there was an ill-effect from offering such a "free drink" promotion that it might affect the bar service.

 

From the responses, it looks like it is not. That's a great thing! :)

[curtdesilets]

Obviously Celebrity has not heard of the Oldsmobile debacle. Oldsmobile in the 80s thought their demographic was getting too old and they wanted the younger generation. In a series of famous ads, "This is not your father's Oldsmobile" including William Shatner of Star Trek fame, they buzzed the airwaves. It backfired on them as the young never intended to buy the cars and their loyal customers (the seniors) decided that if Oldsmobile did not want them, they would reciprocate by not wanting Oldsmobile. Oldsmobile soon disappeared into history as another company that shot themselves in the foot trying to be something they were not.

pah

 

I think you might be on to something here. The boats are not designed for the younger set. Michael's Club, the Wine Cellars, the fancy Spa, Martini Bar, etc. is designed for an older audience. I have yet to see a water slide or a zip line on Celebrity. But when I do...I guess the "Carnivalization" process will have gone into action. :eek:

[NLH Arizona]

Frightening the lack of comprehension and grasp of the complaint they embarrass them selves when they keep saying it is the music genre and people want to listen to nothing bit oldies.

People want to be able to listen to each other and the music if it is worthy.

 

Just as frightening is the lack of comprehension and grasp of the complaint, are those that are speaking for everying and can't admit that it is not a problem for all. What is worthy to one, might not be worthy to another; it is all a matter of taste and everyone's opinion is different.

Edited March 7, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

Most definitely is. I am hoping to hear more from the reps here because seriously, I'm thinking about canceling based on these reviews. I am not old, can differentiate between pop and rap, drink many drinks daily, use the spa and buy the 5 dinner package. None of this means I want loud music blasted the whole cruise. Sail away parties or other deck parties or hey, I dont even mind it at the pool all day. But this talk of it being everywhere all the time with no escape concerns me. There absolutely should be silent refuge somewhere other than your cabin.

Don't cancel beause of a few posters, see for yourself. Celebrity does surveys and if the music was that much of a problem, don't you think they would have addressed it by now (afterall they are in business to make money, not tick off their customers), as these people have been complaining for a long, long time now. Those on here are only a small fraction of the total number of passengers aboard a ship. There are many silent refuges around the ships. I'm an avid reader and have never, never had a problem finding a quite space, when that is what I'm looking for.

 

The problem is that when a few people profess to speak for everyone, it turns people off without them having the experience themselves and possibly that is what they want to do to get their way.

Edited March 7, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[C-Dragons]

X is running a business, and it would be foolish to tell their customers if you don't like it just move on. How many thousands of cabins do they have to fill on a daily basis? The top 1% of those with the greatest spendable income cannot fill all those cabins. There have to be price points for EVERYONE, from insides to the top Suites. A wise company will not target only one segment of their customer base. Those just starting to cruise in an inside or ocean view will, hopefully, stay with X and over the years move up through cabin categories and eventually end up enjoying "the suite life". And why on earth would they try to replace the boomers with a younger demographic? Statistically I would guess they (the boomers) have a lot more time to vacation than those who are younger and may match their spendable income, but are still working. There are niche cruise lines that target specific demographics (Disney comes to mind) but X is more mainstream, although more upscale than a lot of other cruise lines which is what attracts a lot of people who appreciate what they have to offer. Bottom line is, they can't just say if you don't like it, try another line, because that might just be what their loyal customers do.

And in my opinion, X is smarter than that.

[NLH Arizona]

I think you might be on to something here. The boats are not designed for the younger set. Michael's Club, the Wine Cellars, the fancy Spa, Martini Bar, etc. is designed for an older audience. I have yet to see a water slide or a zip line on Celebrity. But when I do...I guess the "Carnivalization" process will have gone into action. :eek:

Got to totally disagree. Have you been to Canyon Ranch Spa (fancy spa), the first time I went there, I was old and I was only in my 50's, most were 20 to 30 years younger than me. Martinis are the drink of the younger set and the martini bars in Scottsdale are packed every night. Michael's Club might not interest the younger set, just because I've never seen many in there and they would get bored, but as far as wine cellars, the younger well-heeled folks love good wine. To make the generalization that these things are only designed for an older audience is pretty much off the mark IMHO.

[sollan]

The problem is that when a few people profess to speak for everyone, it turns people off without them having the experience themselves and possibly that is what they want to do to get their way.

I'm not sure if I understand you.... Are you actually saying that it's possible that people are posting their experiences (good or bad depending on what side they are on) with the intention to scare away customers?

I hope that I have misunderstood you.