You Paid and Princess Listened

[donaldsc]

Although my last cruise was on HAL, the logic of my response is still good. I did not gamble. I did not do anything at the massage area. I did not buy anything on board. I bought 1 beer - that was my total alcohol consumption. I did not take any ship tours as all my tours were private tours or walk arounds.

 

My single specialty restaurant meal was paid for by HAL as they gave me $500 because I suffered from no hot water for several days in my cabin. In addition to the $500, they moved me from my ocean view cabin to a veranda cabin that did have hot water.

 

The $500 credit even paid for much of my tips.

 

I guess all of you suckers who have fallen for the optional extras that are offered on cruises paid for that lower cost of my cruise.

 

I thank you a lot.

 

If you go for the places and not for the shipboard experiences which is what I do, the admitted lowering of service and increase in optional extras does not bother you.

 

DON

[tiggerrr]

Honestly, this is likely headed in a similar direction to the airline industry. A couple of decades ago if you wanted to fly, you paid a huge amount, more than today in most cases. But, you had good service, usually a partially empty plane, meals, etc. As the skies opened up, a huge amount of capacity was added, new airlines started up. The price was driven way down. Consumers then demonstrated that they would only fly an airline if they were the cheapest. Even $25 less and they would jump to a different airline. So, the airlines have adapted to that consumer behaviour. Eliminate extra services, charge fees for everything you can, cram as many seats in as you can (as long as your fare is cheap people will buy). Most airlines have substantially cut benefits on their frequent flyer/loyalty programs. Air travel became a commodity with little value on differentiation. The extra fees make up a huge part of airline profit. But, for those that can afford it, first/business class has become much more luxurious (especially overseas).

 

So, where is cruising headed? A couple of decades ago, you paid more for your cruise than you do today. We've seen a massive increase in capacity with massive ships and many more ships. The price has been driven way down. Consumers have shown that in large measure they are price sensitive. I know a few month ago there was a Celebrity discussion to their marketing group lamenting that their 'premium' on board services weren't commanding a sufficient premium price. We're now seeing a steady increase in extra fees and/or cutbacks in basic services. Fare sales are done to get people on board, where the extra fees will make the profit. If the model holds, the fees will increase, the loyalty programs will be cut back, and in the end consumers will have few alternatives to turn to within their price range for a different experience. But, for those with money, the on board options will be much better.

[bdjam]

Boy - between the tepid reaction to Royal Princess and this coming out with Regal Princess the two new ships have had unfortunate reactions.

 

I totally get the business model of charging for things. And I kind of like the fact that I don't have to chip in on someone's extravagance by paying an all inclusive fee.

 

On the other hand, I think it's a bad practice to roll out a new pricing structure with no notice. Passengers, especially experienced Princess cruisers, know what to expect and should be given some notice before they purchase their ticket. But I don't know that Princess is looking to make sure their customer base is happy. They are concentrating on luring new cruisers and expect that these people won't know the difference between additional fees.

 

Whether or not the additional charges are justified, the way they have been implemented is unfortunate. The only way to keep them from rolling out to the fleet is to not accept them - through comments to Princess and through lack of patronage of these venues. But you must also be willing to have your cruise fare increased to offset the benefits of the on board revenue

[greenie082756]

This is life it goes forward and changes.

My very first cruise was in 1980 with my Mom in one room and My DH and I in another. A four night cruise(LA to Ensenada and back) on the SS Azure Seas. Inside cabin, no window, nothing fancy at all. Beds (yes twin beds as the rooms were too small), a few drawers and a small bathroom. Dinner was a scheduled sit down. Everyone dressed nicely. Beautifully presented, prepared and totally entertaining. Wine, alcohol, photos were extra cost. Lunch was also sit down. I don't remember breakfast. There was a casino and a disco dance area.

I think there was a pool but I don't remember, so long ago.

When I referenced the ship it stated there were only 871 passengers for the 3-4 night cruises. I remember what my Mom paid and lets just say it was a lot compared to now.

This industry has come a long way and when I stepped on a cruise ship in 2008(after 20+ years), my eyes were astonished at all the changes and how excited I felt.

Granted we all don't like the changes but in perspective from my point of view and what I remember of my very first cruise and what I have experienced recently I like it. As far as paying more for certain services, I will if I truly feel the need for it. I don't do the spa or Sanctuary. I have not done room service. This is what is great, if I chose to pay for a service then I will, if I don't, then I don't.

The jest that I have gotten from the threads about the new extra charges is surprise. Forgive me if I don't understand the outrage and disappointment in PCL. With all that is going on in the world this is minor change which we will all get use to. I think PCL does very well.

Teresa

Edited May 25, 2014 by greenie082756
mispelled

[Times Prince]

It won't be long before food in the IC is upcharge.

Many of the offerings in the IC started as an extra charge, and Princess has now eliminated it.

 

People -- you shot yourself in the foot so to speak when you accepted ridiculous $100 PP prices for a "chef's table" dinner and specialty restaurants and paying for special coffee and special gelato so why would you think the cruise lines will stop putting more pay venues on board. < deleted > Soon we will be paying for a cabin and mediocre banquet meals in the MDR with no extras.

So if people stop using the pay venues they will shrink and/or disappear but as long a people pay why not?

I'm going to take a better look at cruise lines that are all inclusive. When I do the math they are a better price and experience.

No I haven't. We've tried the Steakhouse once, when it was a pilot program on Sun Princess. We find the cuisine offered in the MDR and in Café Caribe to be fine, and it allows us to try dishes we've never tasted. We enjoy the food on Princess.

 

You might as well complain that people have encouraged the cost of liquor and soft drinks onboard as well. Princess is in business and the things which are successful within the overall brand will continue. "All inclusive" is not in the Princess brand, but other features that appeal to many of the passengers are. And charging only them a little extra makes sense.

 

Our overall cost of cruising has not gone up a great deal over the 17 years we've been cruising, and that helps us to afford to continue. But, unlike others, we've never gambled, so there's part of every ship which we don't use.

 

Expect experiments in generating revenue within the business model - that is normal. Just don't try to cause a guilt trip if they turn out to be successful.

 

We do use room service for balcony breakfasts, and if they present a service charge for that we will likely consider it the same as the 15% service charge for drinks.

[caribill]

Many of the offerings in the IC started as an extra charge, and Princess has now eliminated it.

 

 

Except for gelato which still exists, all the items that originally had a cost at the IC are no longer offered there.

[hubofhockey]

I wonder how popular all of the new pay venues are on the Royal Princess. $50 half day cabanas, $115 Chef's Table featuring a downgraded experience, $20 fondue, $20 for previously frozen crabshack food. As it turns out, the free sit down pizza joint was more popular, so that's a charge now. The better question is how popular is the Royal Princess? With the price I got for a mini suite on a July Baltic itinerary, I'm guessing the ship is NOT popular.

[bigguy1]

The mass market cruise line business model is to up charge. Princess included. The problem, IMHO, is when there is an up charge for everything you do, it has a negative affect on the cruising experience. If the cruising experience was negative, the customer will not return. Not the result that Princess wants. But, it's their bat & ball, they make the rules. We decide if we want to play.

[Luvmyrotti]

Although my last cruise was on HAL, the logic of my response is still good. I did not gamble. I did not do anything at the massage area. I did not buy anything on board. I bought 1 beer - that was my total alcohol consumption. I did not take any ship tours as all my tours were private tours or walk arounds.

 

My single specialty restaurant meal was paid for by HAL as they gave me $500 because I suffered from no hot water for several days in my cabin. In addition to the $500, they moved me from my ocean view cabin to a veranda cabin that did have hot water.

 

The $500 credit even paid for much of my tips.

 

I guess all of you suckers who have fallen for the optional extras that are offered on cruises paid for that lower cost of my cruise.

 

I thank you a lot.

 

If you go for the places and not for the shipboard experiences which is what I do, the admitted lowering of service and increase in optional extras does not bother you.

 

DON

 

I certainly don't consider myself a sucker because I choose to pay for cocktails and specialty restaurants. They add to my enjoyment of my vacation. Isn't it about the opportunity for each of us to choose our own vacation?

[swedish weave]

Room service?

 

If you want it, PAY FOR IT !!! I have never used it.

 

 

When I started cruising in 1978, I considered $100 per person per day a good starting price and anything less was a bargain.

 

I ran an inflation calculator and the results are shocking.

 

If in (enter year) 1978

I purchased an item for $ 100

then in (enter year*) 2014

that same item would cost: $363.61

Cumulative rate of inflation: 263.6%

Edited May 25, 2014 by swedish weave

[Grego]

So true... you have hit the nail on the head.

 

My first cruise was on the Sun Princess (Vancouver - Seward) in 2000. Then there was no auto tipping, no premium dining venues, no coffee cards, no Sanctuary etc. Basically, one's folio at the end of the cruise listed three possible things: drinks, excursions and items purchased at the on board shops. People on Cruise Critic (and the lines themselves) touted cruising as being a much better value than a land vacation because it was (almost) 'all-inclusive'.

 

But, Norwegian had just introduced 'Specialty Dining'... and the slippery slope began. By 2001, Princess had the Stirling Steakhouse...

 

Now, a MDR meal is a shadow of its former self - remember: the menu!... wine stewards... when the waiter had time to actually speak with people at the table and the asst. waiter cleaned the table with a sterling silver crumb scoop? Now, people are clamoring to pay $100 pp for a similar experience.

 

The lines looked at the revenue, and never looked back. Now passengers are 'renting' deck space - the Sanctuary on Princess, Cabanas on HAL... and paying for Room Service.

 

We only have ourselves to blame.

 

I agree. I have posted for years that the ship is turning into a floating bus that is just going from port to port. Clothing requirements have been thrown out the porthole, quality of food and service has diminished and the ship condition has suffered.

Yeah I get it when you consider that in the competitive market and need to fill ships it is necessary to have fares that attract and make up the difference by charging extra for everything once they have you on board. It has gotten to the point with us a "loyal" Princess cruisers of 21 voyages to start looking elsewhere.

 

Maybe the slogan "Escape Completely" has a message other than intended.

 

I have to believe that someone from Princess is reading these comments. What I don't see is that they are hearing them and the want to fix these issues. The feeling is that the mission is to hire "bean counters" and given them the objective to find ways to add to the bottom line by cutting corners and "nickel and diming" the pxs.

 

What one has to wonder if anyone has looked at what the impact will be if the loyal Princess cruisers start leaving for other cruise lines. We spend a lot of money once on the ship and most frequent Princess voyagers do. If the ship just becomes a bus then what is keeping us on this line?

 

......and don't me started on what the loyalty Captain's Circle program has evolved into! Come on now, someone can take 15 three day voyages, 45 days overall, and be Elite? Time to rethink this program and make it more reflective of the comittment made to the cruise line.

[LMaxwell]

......and don't me started on what the loyalty Captain's Circle program has evolved into! Come on now, someone can take 15 three day voyages, 45 days overall, and be Elite? Time to rethink this program and make it more reflective of the comittment made to the cruise line.

 

You got yourself started on that one; it hasn't been mentioned in here at all. But those are the Princess rules for their thank you program. As long as someone qualifies under the guidelines I say more power to them. Just because it may have taken you longer that was your circumstance at the time. 15 3 day trips is NOT inexpensive and as such if Princess says they earned a reward, they earned it. Other people earning the same thing as you did is NOT a diminishing of what you have received. Therefore I see no reason to begrudge adding new people to that level.

[swedish weave]

I agree. I have posted for years that the ship is turning into a floating bus that is just going from port to port. Clothing requirements have been thrown out the porthole, quality of food and service has diminished and the ship condition has suffered.

Yeah I get it when you consider that in the competitive market and need to fill ships it is necessary to have fares that attract and make up the difference by charging extra for everything once they have you on board. It has gotten to the point with us a "loyal" Princess cruisers of 21 voyages to start looking elsewhere.

 

Maybe the slogan "Escape Completely" has a message other than intended.

 

I have to believe that someone from Princess is reading these comments. What I don't see is that they are hearing them and the want to fix these issues. The feeling is that the mission is to hire "bean counters" and given them the objective to find ways to add to the bottom line by cutting corners and "nickel and diming" the pxs.

 

What one has to wonder if anyone has looked at what the impact will be if the loyal Princess cruisers start leaving for other cruise lines. We spend a lot of money once on the ship and most frequent Princess voyagers do. If the ship just becomes a bus then what is keeping us on this line?

 

......and don't me started on what the loyalty Captain's Circle program has evolved into! Come on now, someone can take 15 three day voyages, 45 days overall, and be Elite? Time to rethink this program and make it more reflective of the comittment made to the cruise line.

 

If you "jump ship", where are you going ? All the mainstream cruise lines are doing basically the same thing, and the other lines are charging you in their base rates.

 

The cruising industry is changing and are not necessarily trying to hold onto us oldies but are attracting the younger crowd with their bells and whistles and are charging for it.

 

They didn't build these floating monsters for us.

Edited May 25, 2014 by swedish weave

[Ethel5]

You got yourself started on that one; it hasn't been mentioned in here at all. But those are the Princess rules for their thank you program. As long as someone qualifies under the guidelines I say more power to them. Just because it may have taken you longer that was your circumstance at the time. 15 3 day trips is NOT inexpensive and as such if Princess says they earned a reward, they earned it. Other people earning the same thing as you did is NOT a diminishing of what you have received. Therefore I see no reason to begrudge adding new people to that level.

 

Adding more and more people to the Elite level has diminished the level itself. Priority tendering has become a nightmare with people waving the black cards and pushing ahead. The free laundry is now taking days to come back. The cocktail party is over crowded and has gotten more expensive etc. Not good.

[Ethel5]

If you "jump ship", where are you going ? All the mainstream cruise lines are doing basically the same thing, and the other lines are charging you in their base rates.

 

The cruising industry is changing and are not necessarily trying to hold onto us oldies but are attracting the younger crowd with their bells and whistles and are charging for it.

 

They didn't build these floating monsters for us.

 

No, but we paid for them! :rolleyes:

[LMaxwell]

Adding more and more people to the Elite level has diminished the level itself. Priority tendering has become a nightmare with people waving the black cards and pushing ahead. The free laundry is now taking days to come back. The cocktail party is over crowded and has gotten more expensive etc. Not good.

 

You're 100% correct of course. Any time more people are eligible to use a service, without an increase in the capacity of that service, wait times will increase.

 

But that is kind of beside the point. The person I was responding to was hinting at, if not directly saying, that is unfair for people to become Elite without going on as many cruises as they did. My response is the company has created the thank you reward system and as long as someone reached a certain level by the rules of that system they are fully entitled to the rewards given by the company. The quality of the benefits offered really is a different discussion, but the simple fact that someone reaches a status faster than someone else should not preclude them from participating. Everyone is subject to the same current rules at any given point in time.

[lexdisic]

 

Whether or not the additional charges are justified, the way they have been implemented is unfortunate. The only way to keep them from rolling out to the fleet is to not accept them - through comments to Princess and through lack of patronage of these venues. But you must also be willing to have your cruise fare increased to offset the benefits of the on board revenue

 

 

+1

 

I am "one of those" who are quite willing to pay an increased fare to keep certain things which I consider as "the cruising experience", although I rarely use things like room service, entertainers, afternoon tea, trivia, etc., I believe its these things that set cruising apart from a standard hotel experience. The only things , to my mind , to charge extra for is the Spa, excursions and alcohol. But, here lies the problem. Most seem to want a cheaper base price, and choose not to have anything included (although will complain when they go up in price or get removed), and everyones wants are different. I, therefore, can only see a relentless crusade to nickel and dime everything they can to please that majority who wont accept anything but a cheap base price. These threads will continue for as long as cruising exists, which in itself detracts from what cruising is all about, and is making the premium lines seem more attractive as the nickel & diming has already happened within the base price, so one can get on and enjoy cruising once again.

[Ethel5]

...........................SNIP.................................

But that is kind of beside the point. The person I was responding to was hinting at, if not directly saying, that is unfair for people to become Elite without going on as many cruises as they did. My response is the company has created the thank you reward system and as long as someone reached a certain level by the rules of that system they are fully entitled to the rewards given by the company. The quality of the benefits offered really is a different discussion, but the simple fact that someone reaches a status faster than someone else should not preclude them from participating. Everyone is subject to the same current rules at any given point in time.

 

When Princess changed the rules in mid stream, they again shot themselves in the foot. By allowing the Elite status to be reached in a much shorter time frame than what was earlier required, they created the problems as I stated above. I get that they did it to entice new cruisers, but they didn't think or care about how it affected their loyal cruisers. With the new charges, they are doing it again.

[LMaxwell]

When Princess changed the rules in mid stream, they again shot themselves in the foot. By allowing the Elite status to be reached in a much shorter time frame than what was earlier required, they created the problems as I stated above. I get that they did it to entice new cruisers, but they didn't think or care about how it affected their loyal cruisers. With the new charges, they are doing it again.

 

I think it is a very valid point of view that you hold. I understand what you are saying; that Princess have created a problem by making it easier for people to reach a level where services related to earned benefits decrease.

 

Princess do not need to offer any loyalty program though. It is a reward program to thank people for their patronage. Princess have made a sustainable business case to make the program easier for more people to achieve certain levels.

 

I view loyalty programs much like I do promotions. If a company offers a better promotion than I signed up under, but I still have the offerings from the promotion when I qualified I'm not really in a position to say others should not benefit from a newer promotion.

[swedish weave]

When Princess changed the rules in mid stream, they again shot themselves in the foot. By allowing the Elite status to be reached in a much shorter time frame than what was earlier required, they created the problems as I stated above. I get that they did it to entice new cruisers, but they didn't think or care about how it affected their loyal cruisers. With the new charges, they are doing it again.

 

Regardless of how the loyalty programs are structured, the number of cruisers who reach the top levels will increase rapidly. As cruising gains popularity, and the prices are reasonable, more people will be cruising.

 

I remember the first Circolo de Commandante meeting I attended on Sitmar (Now part of Princess) there were twelve of us and it was held in the Captain's suite. Those days are long gone, and now the same type of party is held in a large venue. It usually is split into more than one meeting due to the number of cruisers in the top levels.

 

The assessorial charges are following the same route. When something is free, everybody wants to use it, but add a small charge, and the demand decreases. Increase the charges to the point where the activity produces a profit, and those who want to spend the bucks will participate can enjoy it while others will find other ways to spend their time and money.

 

Sort of a basic business principle if you want to look at it that way.

[Sox Fan Cruiser]

I am more than happy to pay for a better experience. I don't think the dinning room has suffered because they have a chefs table. They are offering upgradable experiences if you CHOOSE to us them.

 

I'm also going to jump every time I can pay a little bit of money to get through security faster or board the plane first when I fly. You don't have to and you still get to the same destination I do.

 

I'm not going to apologize for wanting to spend my money the way I choose. And your experience is still the same. The sanctuary? Sign me up! Ships tour? Yup. Crown Grill? Absolutely.

[Rick-cruiser]

Every time I've compared the mainstream cruise lines to the luxury ones the mainstream ones win big time in price--at least for us. One of the differences is that we're just glad to be able to take a cruise and will book an inside cabin or obstructed view a lot of the time. I realize that the luxury lines offer a much better experience in terms of food and service.

 

No that's not true at all.. Luxury cruise lines exist so that "like" people can cruise together.

.

[caribill]

I am more than happy to pay for a better experience. I don't think the dinning room has suffered because they have a chefs table.

 

True, but the dining room food has suffered with the addition of a specialty steak restaurant.

 

Most Princess dining room steaks are almost inedible recently in my experience.

[Love.II.Cruise]

No that's not true at all.. Luxury cruise lines exist so that "like" people can cruise together.

.

 

Wow, stereotyping at its best! :rolleyes: Have you even sailed a luxury cruise line? The food by far beats Princess. You get what you pay for.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Love.II.Cruise

[Love.II.Cruise]

True, but the dining room food has suffered with the addition of a specialty steak restaurant.

 

Most Princess dining room steaks are almost inedible recently in my experience.

 

I concur, with one exception... last Nov we did think the Prime Rib on the first night was good. Not great, but good.