Celebrity , it's time to take notice

[Cruise Raider]

Princess people sure have a fixation with laundry:) There are nine Celebrity ships and 23 Royal Caribbean ships that don't have self serve laundry or free laundry at the Diamond or Elite level. You would think Princess would be busting at the seams with people wanting to sail with them to get this valuable perk. DH and I could do a 14 night cruise just fine with our 60 items of free laundry (don't even think we pack that much lol).

And that mini bar would last us a couple of nights (beer and wine only) What ever would we do for the next 12 days?

 

Although Princess does offer the free laundry for elite, they also offer a low cost alternative for those that haven't reached that status. Even with the elite status, if you just need to quickly get the wrinkles out of a shirt, the use of irons is complimentary on Princess. The laundry rooms, while not completely busting at the seams, is used on each and every cruise I have been on. If you want to pack lightly, this is a must to have access to laundry. Quite honestly, though, because they are starting to offer it as ready only 3 days later, this isn't the perk it used to be. If they limited it to 20 items per cruise, I would certainly not complain one bit....although I know others that might.

I agree with you on the mini bar...hahaha....the Celebrity perk of morning and evening cocktails is definitely better.

[antsnanny]

Although that thread does show some happy Princess cruisers, I think you will find the same thing here.

 

However, I totally agree with you. Having been sailing on Celebrity for around 15 years, 20 cruises, 200 days or so, you would have to be totally unaware not to notice some of the changes. Many, many long-time cruisers (including Zenith cruisers) have mentioned the same, Not that the Celebrity experience is bad--it isn't--but it is not as good as it was. This does NOT mean that if you sailed Celebrity last week for the first time and felt that it was wonderful, that you opinion doesn't matter (this always rears it ugly head). It means that it is wonderful that you enjoyed your cruise, but when someone mentions that some of the changes have not been for the positive, that they are whining, saying the sky is falling, constant complainers, etc. etc. etc.

 

It simply means that they have a different--and long-term--view of the situation that an infrequent or new cruiser simply cannot share.

 

And, in response to your comment, as a shareholder almost as long as we have been sailing with them and someone who ran a successful business that largely allowed us to retire at ages 44 and 34, is that the way to continued (as opposed to one-shot to pump the equity price) profitability is to give superior service at a reasonable price while raising the bar rather than lowering it.

 

Our first trip on the Zenith was to Bermuda at approx. 1500 per person and there were no balconies. When I compare that to todays prices, I can see why there are cutbacks.

[fleckle]

What does this mean - no doors? :eek:

Yes, it is a cost-cutting measure, like budget motels where you only get a rod to hang your clothing on instead of an actual closet with doors.

 

Although aesthetically unattractive, it provides easier access to the hanging clothing in tight spaces and eliminates the need for maintenance on doors that may stick or squeak or get out of alignment.

 

[Killington]

As someone pointed out ealier in this thread changes (cutbacks?) are happening all over the travel industry. One aspect I can comment on is first class travel on BA, not because we have plenty of money, but because in 1988 my DH made what we both agree was one of the best decisions of his life - he accepted a job with BA:) We didn't even realise until a a few weeks in when he was put wise by a colleague that this meant 1 flight per year (2 after 7yrs service, back to 1 on retirement) where we only paid the taxes and were entitled to upgrade to F if space available.

 

To get to the point, at that time F had big comfortable seats that reclined a good way and enough legroom for a 7ft giant. The food rivalled any fine dining (I once had roast beef and yorkshire pudding as good or better than I can do at 37000ft!) and was served from a restaurant style trolley so you could choose your vegetables, see the desserts, and the cheese board was better than most restaurants.

 

Roll forward to the intro of flat beds. Is it great to be able stretch out? - you bet (although being only 5'4" I could always sleep really well in the chairs) but they are not as comfortable in sitting position and much narrower. Now the food comes ready plated so no choice as to veg etc, cheese plates are boarded with 3 portions per plate no choice, fewer dessert choices and ordered off menu without seeing them on the trolley. Overall quality is nowhere near as good.

 

So all in all there are pros and cons to the changes, and just like the cruise changes discussed what you value is going to be subjective. Also for about 9 yrs mid 80s to mid 90s I did a lot of business travel in business class, the best 3 airlines I experienced were Delta, Qantas, and Air India, BA didn't come close, although BA's Club World now is excellent (no experience of anyone else).

 

Something DH and have discussed is "What would we pay for? (presuming we had the money which we don't) answer is - even with a lottery win, First, no way as it is now compared with Club, as it was, Oh Yey!. Club as it is now, in a heartbeat:D

 

Unfortunately, all good things come to an end, and the changes to concession flights BA made in 2009 mean that our fun ends Mar 2017, which means no more long haul flying:( as I am simply too old and spoilt to go back to the back for more than 5-6hrs:eek:

[chamima]

As I read about cuts in service, entertainment and quality on Celebrity it was nice to read about this on the Princess forum.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2110545

 

 

I wish someone in corporate would take notice of this way to increase profits - the opposite of cutting back - up the quality so customers (and not just those in suites) will want to sail your ships.

 

As someone pointed out ealier in this thread changes (cutbacks?) are happening all over the travel industry. One aspect I can comment on is first class travel on BA, not because we have plenty of money, but because in 1988 my DH made what we both agree was one of the best decisions of his life - he accepted a job with BA:) We didn't even realise until a a few weeks in when he was put wise by a colleague that this meant 1 flight per year (2 after 7yrs service, back to 1 on retirement) where we only paid the taxes and were entitled to upgrade to F if space available.

 

To get to the point, at that time F had big comfortable seats that reclined a good way and enough legroom for a 7ft giant. The food rivalled any fine dining (I once had roast beef and yorkshire pudding as good or better than I can do at 37000ft!) and was served from a restaurant style trolley so you could choose your vegetables, see the desserts, and the cheese board was better than most restaurants.

 

Roll forward to the intro of flat beds. Is it great to be able stretch out? - you bet (although being only 5'4" I could always sleep really well in the chairs) but they are not as comfortable in sitting position and much narrower. Now the food comes ready plated so no choice as to veg etc, cheese plates are boarded with 3 portions per plate no choice, fewer dessert choices and ordered off menu without seeing them on the trolley. Overall quality is nowhere near as good.

 

So all in all there are pros and cons to the changes, and just like the cruise changes discussed what you value is going to be subjective. Also for about 9 yrs mid 80s to mid 90s I did a lot of business travel in business class, the best 3 airlines I experienced were Delta, Qantas, and Air India, BA didn't come close, although BA's Club World now is excellent (no experience of anyone else).

 

Something DH and have discussed is "What would we pay for? (presuming we had the money which we don't) answer is - even with a lottery win, First, no way as it is now compared with Club, as it was, Oh Yey!. Club as it is now, in a heartbeat:D

 

Unfortunately, all good things come to an end, and the changes to concession flights BA made in 2009 mean that our fun ends Mar 2017, which means no more long haul flying:( as I am simply too old and spoilt to go back to the back for more than 5-6hrs:eek:

 

I agree about the cutbacks all over the travel industry.

We've been cruising since 1970 so I'm well aware of the changes.

The point of this thread was that sometimes enhancing the cruise experience as Princess seems to have done with their food (and the addition of the new chocolate experience) can also be a marketing tool.

 

 

Quote from the thread sited in my original post:

 

Has Princess stepped up the game?

 

Just got back from a 5 day Caribbean cruise on the Caribbean princess. Having done 10 cruises on HAL and 3 on Princess, we decided to try Princess again. The food was excellent. Main dining room, Sabatini's, and Crown Grille, were all outstanding. Food on HAL has always been good, but this cruise, princess outdid themselves. Thoughts.

 

 

:)

[K.T.B.]

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't complain in the least it Celebrity, say, raised everyone's fare by 1% per person. Depending on the cruise and stateroom level that's as little $9 and as high as $120. (And if you're paying for a suite, $120 per person is not a huge amount to you.) However for most, and on average, we're looking at about $20 per person. And with ships sailing at near capacity, that's an additional $39,000-57,000 per ship per cruise.

 

In the grand scheme of things, it's probably a drop in the bucket for Celebrity. But if that additional amount can bring back some of what was lost, why not? I'm willing to spend $20 more a person to get back the lost quality, how about you?

[grandgeezer]

Celebrity, as a business, can do what ever they think they need to in order to maximize profits. You, as a consumer, have the right to spend your money elsewhere, if you decide you aren't getting the value you think you should from their product. That means less cruising, trying other lines, or stop cruising all together.

[ECCruise]

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't complain in the least it Celebrity, say, raised everyone's fare by 1% per person. Depending on the cruise and stateroom level that's as little $9 and as high as $120. (And if you're paying for a suite, $120 per person is not a huge amount to you.) However for most, and on average, we're looking at about $20 per person. And with ships sailing at near capacity, that's an additional $39,000-57,000 per ship per cruise.

 

In the grand scheme of things, it's probably a drop in the bucket for Celebrity. But if that additional amount can bring back some of what was lost, why not? I'm willing to spend $20 more a person to get back the lost quality, how about you?

 

I am generally in agreement with you, but Celebrity (and some other lines) have raised prices a whole lot more than 1% in the last year. We have 9 cruises booked and deposited, all booked very early (18-24 months in advance) and there is not a single one that I would book today since prices have risen a minimum of 20% and a maximum of 150% since we booked them. Yes, prices of commodities have risen in the last year, but not even remotely like those increases. That extra $$$ goes into the line's coffers. Profits are already way up and headed higher (viz cruise line equity price levels). Somehow I don't think those added bottom line $$$ will be used to increase the quality. But I could be wrong, it's happened in the past :D

[Orator]

I am generally in agreement with you, but Celebrity (and some other lines) have raised prices a whole lot more than 1% in the last year. We have 9 cruises booked and deposited, all booked very early (18-24 months in advance) and there is not a single one that I would book today since prices have risen a minimum of 20% and a maximum of 150% since we booked them. Yes, prices of commodities have risen in the last year, but not even remotely like those increases. That extra $$$ goes into the line's coffers. Profits are already way up and headed higher (viz cruise line equity price levels). Somehow I don't think those added bottom line $$$ will be used to increase the quality. But I could be wrong, it's happened in the past :D

 

Your points about pricing tend to support what I've said in post #17. Prices are indeed rising at a significant level. At the same time future booking appear to be quite strong. What we don't know, and may never know, is how much of the increase is going to the bottom line. Obviously there is added cost in adding a new Suite restaurant and increased benefits for those in top Suites. The launch of two additional Captain's Club levels has also added to cost. We don't know how the food budget has been affected by increased income. I do know that there was a significant increase a few years ago when the menu was redesigned. They added some old favorites like Beef Wellington, Lobster Tail and Osso Bucco that had been removed due to cost. I know that several Executive Chefs and Maître 'Ds lobbied for the increases.

Price increases in almost anything that is a "want" rather than a "need" influences individual choices. Some will need to downgrade their cabin. Some will need to reduce the number of cruises. Some will need to take a less expensive option. Some will just not go. Celebrity appears to be gambling that their strategy will attract more new dollars from higher margin cruisers that will more than replace any dollars lost by losing some past and future business. Great bonuses if they're right. Looking for new jobs if they aren't.

[K.T.B.]

I am generally in agreement with you, but Celebrity (and some other lines) have raised prices a whole lot more than 1% in the last year. We have 9 cruises booked and deposited, all booked very early (18-24 months in advance) and there is not a single one that I would book today since prices have risen a minimum of 20% and a maximum of 150% since we booked them. Yes, prices of commodities have risen in the last year, but not even remotely like those increases. That extra $$$ goes into the line's coffers. Profits are already way up and headed higher (viz cruise line equity price levels). Somehow I don't think those added bottom line $$$ will be used to increase the quality. But I could be wrong, it's happened in the past :D

 

I don't know what time in the year you generally look to cruise in, but the time periods and cruises I look at have remained (for the most part) somewhat consistent in terms of inflation for me. I maybe spending more money for the cruise I want, but in terms of percentages it hasn't increased vs. what I earn. If that makes sense to you. :)

 

The only reason I know that is because I try to put away x% of money I earn aside for vacation(s) and the percentage has remained the same for about 10 years now. When I need to increase the amount of money I put aside, then I'll re-think things.

 

But, yes, if you spent, say, $1,200 for a cruise for 2 four years ago and it's now $1,500 or higher, then it's a shock. I'm just seeing it from a different perspective I guess.

 

Off topic, now I'm curious just how much each cruise makes just on bookings alone.... :confused:

[GWM907]

Just returned from a 5 day Princess cruise. It was my 3rd on Princess however i usually sail Celebrity (10+ cruises). I found the food in the MDR on Princess comparable to Celebrity. The food on the buffet was not bad but not as good as Celebrity. Celebrity specialty restaurants are much better than Princess. Overall however I would call the experience fairly similar.

[ECCruise]

Our first trip on the Zenith was to Bermuda at approx. 1500 per person and there were no balconies. When I compare that to todays prices, I can see why there are cutbacks.

 

Depends on when you sailed.

 

Our first cruise to Bermuda on Horizon (and our second, and our third, and our fourth, some on Zenith) was $1500 also. For 2. In a OV. This was early-mid 2000s)

[Lady Chew]

Thanks for the info about the doors, er, that is, the no-doors ...

 

I don't know if I'd like that, I like my closet to be private. I always tell the steward not to open the doors for any reason. Not that I'm hiding anything or that I'm particularly messy ... I'm just private.

 

Now back to the ongoing discussion ...

[wallie5446]

We first sailed on Princess in 1992, and Celebrity in 1994, both were wonderful trips.

 

Sailed the Ruby Princess in Nov 2012, and the Celebrity Reflection in Nov 2013, with our best friends on both, which have sailed on both lines before too.

 

They loved the Ruby, I thought it OK, my wife wont entertain looking at Princess any more:confused:

 

We found the Reflection right in line with our last sailing on the Horizon in Dec 2000. Excellent. Our friends liked it, but not as much as they did the Ruby:confused:

 

So here we have it, 4 people, all experienced cruisers, sail together, yet walk away with different feelings about the experience. Go figure.

 

We found the experience on X so much better, we are sailing our first over 7 days with them next month.

[Orator]

As I read about cuts in service, entertainment and quality on Celebrity it was nice to read about this on the Princess forum.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2110545

 

 

I wish someone in corporate would take notice of this way to increase profits - the opposite of cutting back - up the quality so customers (and not just those in suites) will want to sail your ships.

 

Time to vent and I apologize in advance. The OP talks infers cuts in service, entertainment and quality on Celebrity. They direct us to read postings on the Princess board. Have you read those postings? They only focus on food quality and the initial report that started that thread is based on a single 5 day cruise. I guess the one thing on that thread I agree with is that the Executive Chef makes a difference. This is true. I remember when there were problems with the kitchen on Connie and Jason Banyon was transferred to the ship to correct the situation. After about two weeks there were glowing reports on Cruise Critic about the quality of food on Connie. But what happened on this tread is that it developed into a Celebrity vs. Princess argument that included closet doors! Every line has it's plusses and minuses. For whatever reason some prefer one, some the other. What I resent is people who have a line of choice getting on the boards of other lines in order to promote an agenda or make a fight. Their right to do it, but I personally resent it. I don't know the motive of the OP in this case, but certainly their headline doesn't reflect the true nature of what was said on the Princess board. Read it in its entirety and draw your own conclusions. I will not respond further.

[chamima]

We HAVE cruised both lines extensively. (We're Elite on both)

(As recently as last Feb. , 14 days on Celebrity followed immediately by a week on Princess. Food and service on Princess was head and tails better! This was before the cuts in activity staff and classical musicians on Celebrity)

 

There are positives and negatives on each.

 

I'm just talking about the direction I see each line going in.

I am NOT posting just to complain!

We (so far) like Celebrity and , as I keep repeating and repeating, hope they will see the shortsightedness of some recent decisions.

 

Time to vent and I apologize in advance. The OP talks infers cuts in service, entertainment and quality on Celebrity. They direct us to read postings on the Princess board. Have you read those postings? They only focus on food quality and the initial report that started that thread is based on a single 5 day cruise. I guess the one thing on that thread I agree with is that the Executive Chef makes a difference. This is true. I remember when there were problems with the kitchen on Connie and Jason Banyon was transferred to the ship to correct the situation. After about two weeks there were glowing reports on Cruise Critic about the quality of food on Connie. But what happened on this tread is that it developed into a Celebrity vs. Princess argument that included closet doors! Every line has it's plusses and minuses. For whatever reason some prefer one, some the other. What I resent is people who have a line of choice getting on the boards of other lines in order to promote an agenda or make a fight. Their right to do it, but I personally resent it. I don't know the motive of the OP in this case, but certainly their headline doesn't reflect the true nature of what was said on the Princess board. Read it in its entirety and draw your own conclusions. I will not respond further.

 

Orator

If you're not reading anymore I'm wasting my proverbial breath but my motivation is in bold red above.

Every thread on these boards go off topic and take on lives of their own.

Sorry that happened here, also.

Again , my only motivation is that we personally have noticed cuts in service and amenities on board and hope those decisions will be reversed - hence the title of the thread.

(And the thread I quoted from Princess was just to use as an example of the direction they seem to be taking to increase profits)

Edited October 6, 2014 by chamima

[Christine Frances]

Orator

If you're not reading anymore I'm wasting my proverbial breath but my motivation is in bold red above.

Every thread on these boards go off topic and take on lives of their own.

Sorry that happened here, also.

Again , my only motivation is that we personally have noticed cuts in service and amenities on board and hope those decisions will be reversed - hence the title of the thread.

(And the thread I quoted from Princess was just to use as an example of the direction they seem to be taking to increase profits)

 

I know you don't like the changes on X and look at them as "cuts" but please, please Celebrity, do not bring back A Capella groups or String Quartets!! This to me is an improvement, not a cut on the entertainment lol I am just not old enough yet and I just turned 70. I still remember going into a lounge, (maybe Michael's years ago) and they had a string quartet and there were 4 guys snoozing in the chairs. lol

We are Martini, Molecular and Gastrobar (can't wait) people so the changes to us are positive.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Christine Frances

[hulamoon]

It is rare that a team brought in to get the stock up that announced they will cut expenses and raises prices returns value to customers. I do not count the suite changes as I think they are being paid for by everyone. I suspect the zenith benefits aren't that expensive from their side. It certainly bought great good will and had a lot of us counting points checking charts and contemplating our cruising strategies.

 

Orator you posted before it was a gambling strategy. It maybe. Certainly for the short term it works.

 

I enjoyed A Capella and the strings or harp or whatever. Since I am a couple decades below seventy I don't think you have to be seventy plus to enjoy it.

 

It's nice to have variety in different venues.

 

We fall on Karen's side. We readily paid more for Celebrity than Princess for a lot of years now, but if they are getting closer to value it makes us in the need to shop category. Not sure how it is they are the same price for others when they shop, for us they are considerable less at times we look. We personally would like to see some AQ menu improvement. Will also pay closer attention to others about their Princess experience and Oceania.

[Christine Frances]

It is rare that a team brought in to get the stock up that announced they will cut expenses and raises prices returns value to customers. I do not count the suite changes as I think they are being paid for by everyone. I suspect the zenith benefits aren't that expensive from their side. It certainly bought great good will and had a lot of us counting points checking charts and contemplating our cruising strategies.

 

Orator you posted before it was a gambling strategy. It maybe. Certainly for the short term it works.

 

I enjoyed A Capella and the strings or harp or whatever. Since I am a couple decades below seventy I don't think you have to be seventy plus to enjoy it.

 

It's nice to have variety in different venues.

 

We fall on Karen's side. We readily paid more for Celebrity than Princess for a lot of years now, but if they are getting closer to value it makes us in the need to shop category. Not sure how it is they are the same price for others when they shop, for us they are considerable less at times we look. We personally would like to see some AQ menu improvement. Will also pay closer attention to others about their Princess experience and Oceania.

 

I will continue to pay more for Celebrity (DH won't even look at itineraries) until they ban smoking in the casino. They are giving away cruises on Princess for the cheap 4-5 days with OBC worth as much as the cruise fare.

[Kamloops50]

It will be interesting for us to compare our last Princess cruise on the Emerald to the upcoming sailing on Reflection. To me the lines are so blurred and some things I really like about Princess and some things about X...

 

I thought Princess cut back on entertainment. No more Jazz band and the band or whatever it was in the atrium was so awful :(

 

I think it's like buying a car or house... you go for the most features/benefits that you like for the value. But you ain't going to get it all...:p

 

CC

 

Just off Princess there was live music thru out the day in the atrium.

 

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Forums mobile app

[hulamoon]

I will continue to pay more for Celebrity (DH won't even look at itineraries) until they ban smoking in the casino. They are giving away cruises on Princess for the cheap 4-5 days with OBC worth as much as the cruise fare.

 

Yes..this is why we ended up on Celebrity in the first place. I think you are the first one to agree they have some very cheap rates! So of course when people kept reporting they thought they were about even in quality I begain to wonder. It's been ten years since we were on P.

[Kevnzworld]

I think that Celebrity's strategy is short sighted and could come back to haunt them.

I originally posted eight months ago that RCL 's CEO on CNBC stated that their goal was to drive ( increase ) revenue per passenger by 15% annually.

The new suite class, AQ and the for pay venues like the Gastropub are all part of that strategy. The fare's have risen by 50-100% in the veranda class since 2012 from my perspective.

I don't think any of us, certainly me, would mind if the fare increases came with some modest improvements or slight upgrades, in either service or food.

The menus haven't changed, they're stale.

Instead, most of us are noticing areas where they are driving profitability by also reducing the cost structure.

I've noticed the cost cuts with a decline in service in Blu , the new menu in the Tuscan grill and the end of the grand buffet. On my last cruise on the Reflection in April more than one employee confidentially confirmed the changes I was noticing....

When was the last time someone posted about something that IMPROVED on Celebrity that was included and wasn't accompanied by a higher price?

[blindrid]

We all look for different things and have our favorite lines. Our money, our choices. To state the obvious: Cruise lines are profit making businesses and the largest are publically owned companies whose primary responsibility is to stock holders. It would be instructive to those who criticize the business strategies of any line to read what the investment community says and what official filings and Conference calls say. Here are some facts, not opinions, gleaned from a review of RCI.

1. Future sales are very strong. Asia is particiculary strong and Europe appears to be recovering.

2. Prices have increased and there is less discounting.

3. Ships are sailing at an increased capacity. Now at 104%

4. RCL stock is at record highs.

5. Margins are increasing.

 

My opinion, others free to disagree since it's opinion

Celebrity's strategy to attract higher end cruisers appears to be working. Future Suite bookings appear strong at significantly higher prices. Princess and HAL are owned by CCL. Might want to check their filings and stock prices for comparison. Draw your own conclusions.

The Sky might be falling for some individuals, but overall RCI should be quite pleased with the bottom line results.

 

I find the 104% figure a little hard to believe. Possible just not plausible.

 

I view X the same as any mainstream - all have good points, some bad. I'll let you know in December after my next X cruise. Listening to others in here, I hope the entertainment isn't too geriatric for me as I prefer a upbeat, lively cruise. Not crazy, just fun.

Edited October 6, 2014 by blindrid

[Orator]

I find the 104% figure a little hard to believe. Possible just not plausible.

 

Let me answer this. Capacity is set at 2 people per cabin. Thus, 100% would be the number of cabins times 2. 104% would indicate that some cabins have more than 2 people on a cruise.

[Oville]

The fare's have risen by 50-100% in the veranda class since 2012 from my perspective.

 

You jest, right? This comment is ridiculous. We cruise on Celebrity 6 times a year and your numbers aren't even in the realm of reality.

 

But in all fairness, maybe your perspective is very different from mine.;):)