Jeans in the Dining Room?

[Cruise Junky]

I disagree that HAL is the same. They are still formal on Formal nights in the Specialty Restaurants. Princess has now been smart casual for a number of year, also HAL's formal dress code applies to the whole ship, Princess just the MDR

 

 

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Edited November 20, 2014 by Cruise Junky

[JimmyVWine]

I disagree that HAL is the same. They are still formal on Formal nights in the Specialty Restaurants. Princess has now been smart casual for a number of year...

 

Not true. Here is the official Princess statement on attire:

 

Smart Casual

Guest attire should be in keeping with what they would wear to a nice restaurant at home.

 

Skirts/dresses, slacks, and sweaters for ladies

Pants and open-neck shirts for men

Inappropriate dinner wear such as pool or beach attire, shorts, ball caps and casual jeans (with fraying and/or holes) are not permitted in the dining rooms. Shoes must be worn.

 

Formal

When formal nights are held, please observe the dress code in the Traditional Dining and Anytime Dining venues for the enjoyment of all our guests.

 

Evening gowns and cocktail dresses for women

Tuxedos, dinner jackets or dark suits with a tie for men

 

Virtually indistinguishable from HAL (other than the "whole ship vs. MDR" application). Both have a majority of "smart casual" nights and both have Formal Nights. Again, this goes back to people seeing what they want to see. But you cannot read this policy and the HAL policy quoted earlier and come to the conclusion that they differ. You just can't.

[Cruise Junky]

Let's just recap what I said. Princess formal nights do not apply to the Specialty Restaurants, on HAL they do. Princess Formal nights are not a requirement in all areas of the ship, HAL asks you to observe the suggested dress code for the entire evening.

 

If you can't see a difference in that then I really can't help you

 

 

 

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[loveJake]

First off you are completely worng in condeming a complete dress as you want on Carnival, there is a dress code and I have seen people dress up with gowns and tux on elegant night, just not many. And yes I have seen people with bathing suits and no shoes turned away. Carnival is not the party till you drop ship anymore, mabe on 3 or 4 days short cruises, but not the norm from my experience. The only line I had a drunk puking in the hallway was Princess, and the seas were calm.

 

 

 

Most evenings we have a Cruise Casual dress code, but there are those Cruise Elegant evenings one or two nights throughout your “Fun Ship” voyage, where you will have the opportunity to showcase your more elegant attire. For those who want casual attire for dinner time, the Lido Restaurant is open nightly, and has a more relaxed theme. However, shirts and shoes/footwear must be worn at all times inside the Lido Restaurant.

Both dress codes for the dining rooms are described below.

Cruise Casual Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Sport slacks, khakis, jeans (no cut-offs), dress shorts (long), collared sport shirts; Ladies - Casual dresses, casual skirts or pants and blouses, summer dresses, Capri pants.

Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Casual dinner for ladies and gentlemen: cut-off jeans, men's sleeveless shirts, gym or basketball shorts, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire.

Cruise Elegant Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Dress slacks, dress shirts. We also suggest a sport coat. If you wish to wear suits and ties or tuxedos, by all means we invite you to do so. Ladies - Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; if you‘d like to show off your evening gowns, that's great too!

Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Elegant dinner for ladies and gentlemen: jeans, men's sleeveless shirts, shorts, t-shirts, sportswear, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire

[RocketMan275]

I've never really understood the whole "jeans debate" on a cruise. They are bulkier and heavier than any other style of pants I own, and I never pack them for travel unless I am headed to my friends's cabin in Vermont. Don't know why people think that they are the be all and end all of casual wear. At my business, we have "Jeans Days" to raise money for United Way and people can pay $5 to wear jeans on certain days, and many people do. Me? I pitch in my $5 but wear what I usually wear. To me, wearing jeans is a downgrade in comfort, not an upgrade. But, oh well.

 

 

I think that there are people who fear that the entire Princess experience will change if things get too casual. It's not that your Fettuccine Alfredo will taste any different. But the cruising style overall will suffer. I think many people look at the CCL branding and see Carnival placed at the "party ship/Spring Break" low end; Princess at the "casual elegant" middle; HAL at the "more mature, sedate" middle; and Seabourn at the "elegant luxury" top. When discussions brew over dress codes, there may be an unspoken concern that when the things that separate Carnival from Princess erode away, (such as dress codes), then Princess and Carnival will become indistinguishable. And when you have a chat board comprised of hard corp Princess fans, this becomes a frightening proposition. Personally, I think that if a company has so many distinct brands, there are good reasons to keep them distinct so that people have choices. There should be "shorts and flip-flops" cruise ships and there should be "suits and tuxes" cruise ships, and customers can choose what is best for them. But when a person chooses a "suits and tuxes" cruise ship only to find out that the atmosphere on board is more "shorts and flip-flops", then their expectations aren't met and this leads to disappointment. Not that their meal will be ruined. But that the fantasy world that they bought into didn't materialize. It may seem irrational, but it is real to many.

 

Well, jeans may be bulkier and heavier but a pair of jeans and a pair of other slacks are bulkier and heavier than a pair of jeans alone. Jeans are not something I pack after I pack the slacks, slacks are something I might pack after I ensure there is room for the jeans. At my business, I wore jeans every day and I was a senior member of management.

 

Be afraid or not of the Princess experience becoming too 'casual', it's going to happen. New ships and more capacity means the cruise lines need to attract new passengers and that means appealing to a different demographic. A demographic that is not attracted to formal nights. A demographic that is quite comfortable wearing jeans to dinner. And, that is exactly why Princess/RCI/Holland, etc., are relaxing their dress codes. While the written codes may not have changed, the enforcement certainly has, and it will continue to change. Take pleasure in your formal nights, they will not be around much longer.

 

If you want to see the future of cruising and dress codes, look at RCI's dynamic dining.

[JimmyVWine]

Let's just recap what I said.

 

What you said...direct quote...is:

"Cunard and HAL are now the formal lines."

"Princess has now been smart casual for a number of year"

 

In truth, the dress codes on Princess and HAL are virtually indistinguishable. Where one must conform to that code differs, but the dress guidelines do not.

[JimmyVWine]

Be afraid or not of the Princess experience becoming too 'casual', it's going to happen. New ships and more capacity means the cruise lines need to attract new passengers and that means appealing to a different demographic. A demographic that is not attracted to formal nights. A demographic that is quite comfortable wearing jeans to dinner. And, that is exactly why Princess/RCI/Holland, etc., are relaxing their dress codes. While the written codes may not have changed, the enforcement certainly has, and it will continue to change. Take pleasure in your formal nights, they will not be around much longer.

 

If you want to see the future of cruising and dress codes, look at RCI's dynamic dining.

 

I don't disagree with a word of that. (Although I would change the last line to read: "If you want to see the future of mass-market cruising...") Some people lament what you have said, and they will cling to their hopes that the Princess they used to know will remain the Princess of the future. I don't think they can be blamed for hoping that Princess does not blend into Carnival, and they cannot be blamed for kicking and screaming when they see it happening. But none of that changes the fact that what you wrote is likely the future.

Edited November 20, 2014 by JimmyVWine

[Cruise Junky]

What you said...direct quote...is:

 

"Cunard and HAL are now the formal lines."

 

"Princess has now been smart casual for a number of year"

 

 

 

In truth, the dress codes on Princess and HAL are virtually indistinguishable. Where one must conform to that code differs, but the dress guidelines do not.

 

 

Stop picking a line out of my different posts. If you're going to quote me do it right. I clearly said the Specialty restaurants had been Smart Casual for a few years now.

 

 

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[AKman2495]

Or all the talk about changing demographics, Princess has accommodated the new demographic. No one has to participate in formal nights. They have a whole number of venues that do not require dressing up. The problem is that people still insist in going to the MDR is less than formal wear. Those who refuse to accept the formal wear dress code and insist on dining in the MDR may get in, but, IMHO, they do degrade the experience. (Fortunately, not too much).

 

It boils down to this. I (and others) see people who won't follow the dress code ad saying something like "My comfort comes first and I don't care what anybody else thinks_to hell with them!".

 

On the other hand, it seems to me that the "get rid of formal nights crowd" is saying "Who the hell are you to tell me what I should wear. You are old fashioned and I have gotten past playing dress up...So, I will wear what I want when I want where I want!".

 

As for hats in the dining room, that is just rude. Sad to see it becoming so prevalent, but it is still rude. I remember an early episode of the Sopranos when Tony is eating in his buddy's restaurant and some guy is eating with his hat on. Tony goes over and says "Take your hat off...this is a fine restaurant not a ball park". The guy is miffed until he sees it is Tony...He then takes off his hat....

[RocketMan275]

I don't disagree with a word of that. (Although I would change the last line to read: "If you want to see the future of mass-market cruising...") Some people lament what you have said, and they will cling to their hopes that the Princess they used to know will remain the Princess of the future. I don't think they can be blamed for hoping that Princess does not blend into Carnival, and they cannot be blamed for kicking and screaming when they see it happening. But none of that changes the fact that what you wrote is likely the future.

 

I agree with your suggested wording. I could have been more clear.

 

I appreciate your articulating the fears of some Princess cruisers. I share their concern. I do not wish to see belly flop or hairy chest contests either. Nor, do I wish to share a party atmosphere cruise experience. OTOH, I doubt those who prefer such things would want to cruise Princess any more than we would want to cruise their preferred lines.

 

Since we both agree that formal nights will go away, the question becomes what can Princess do to differentiate their line?

 

I think the clearest difference becomes one of age. I can see passengers, as they age, leaving belly flops and party nights behind as they progress through the lines.

 

There are other things. The decor for one. If you like Vegas, you'll probably not be attracted to Princess. Entertainment. I'll be concerned when I see Rock Bands replacing the string quartet in the Piazza.

 

Time is on my side.

[RocketMan275]

Or all the talk about changing demographics, Princess has accommodated the new demographic. No one has to participate in formal nights. They have a whole number of venues that do not require dressing up.

 

It boils down to this. I (and others) see people who won't follow the dress code ad saying something like "My comfort comes first and I don't care what anybody else thinks_to hell with them!".

 

 

Why should the MDR become the exclusive playground of a particular group of people? If those other venues are such good alternatives to the MDR, why not have one formal night in the MDR and a second in the buffet? If the buffet is good for some, then it should be good for all.

 

Rephrasing slightly: It boils down to this. I (and others) see people who insist on the dress code as saying something like "My preferences come first and I don't care what anybody else prefers"!

[RDC1]

Why should the MDR become the exclusive playground of a particular group of people? If those other venues are such good alternatives to the MDR, why not have one formal night in the MDR and a second in the buffet? If the buffet is good for some, then it should be good for all.

 

Rephrasing slightly: It boils down to this. I (and others) see people who insist on the dress code as saying something like "My preferences come first and I don't care what anybody else prefers"!

 

Except is this case the dress code is defined by the cruise line, not by individuals. You know what it is when you book your cruise, so do the others. The cruise line should enforce its published rules, whatever they might be.

[RocketMan275]

Except is this case the dress code is defined by the cruise line, not by individuals. You know what it is when you book your cruise, so do the others. The cruise line should enforce its published rules, whatever they might be.

 

The cruise line does define the dress code. Partly by the written code but more importantly by the code it actually enforces. As you can see, these are not the same thing. If the cruise line enforced the rules, as written, they would drive away passengers. As it is, the cruise line has it both ways. It can attract the formal diners and it avoids repelling the casual dressers which it would do if it barred them from the MDR.

 

Perhaps a better solution would be to inform passengers at booking if they sign for traditional dining they will get formal nights and the code will be enforced. If they sign for MTD, then all nights will be smart casual. Sooner than you think, formal nights will become optional and then disappear.

[JimmyVWine]

Since we both agree that formal nights will go away, the question becomes what can Princess do to differentiate their line?

 

That is a great question. And perhaps it brings us full circle to the topic of this thread. If Princess is not going to enforce the Formal Night attire policy, then perhaps the next best thing would be to enforce the Smart Casual policy as strictly as possible. Frankly, I don't care one bit if someone wears a long-sleeve, open collared shirt on Formal Night. But I do care if people wear t-shirts and baseball caps in the MDRs on Smart Casual nights. Maybe I am wrong to care. But that, to me, is where Princess is in danger of sliding down to the level of Carnival. In other words, I don't really care about the "upper level" of the dress code nearly as much as I care about the "lowest acceptable level" of the dress code. As noted earlier, Princess and HAL have the same Smart Casual policy on non-Formal nights, and it would be great to see that enforced. And to complete the circle, yes...that does include jeans unless the policy were to change!

[Stevesan]

Nice jeans are allowed in the MDR on all but Formal nights. So says Princess and that is all that matters. Enjoy your meals.

 

But not mean jeans. :p

[JimmyVWine]

But not mean jeans. :p

 

Or stated another way.....jeans that engage in conversation with the jeans seated next to them are OK. Jeans that refuse to acknowledge the jeans seated next to them are not.

[sewgood]

We just got off the Ruby last Saturday. I went to Formal Night without my suit coat and I think there were several people getting physically ill because of my attire. The rest of my cruise was a bit off....

 

Thats for lightening the mood.:)

Just remember next time to have a shower before going to the formal night especially after that big work out session at the gym. :D That may of been why they became physically ill.:p

[Kingofcool1947]

My husband wears black jeans on formal night and no problem. Princess is very lax and if you are dressed nicely, who cares?

I would rather be comfortable and have good company than dress up just to eat dinner.

 

 

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So with his black jeans, does your husband wear a dress shirt? With or without a tie? With or without a sport coat?

 

I don't want to stand out like a sore thumb on formal nights if other men are in suits or tuxedos.

[lrockwitt]

My husband wears a dress shirt..

 

 

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[lrockwitt]

Sorry. No tie and no jacket. He looks really good.

 

 

 

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[Kingofcool1947]

Thanks!

 

What do you wear on Formal Night? Would like to advise DW.

 

Regards,

 

King

Edited November 20, 2014 by Kingofcool1947

[Potstech]

But not mean jeans. :p

 

But what about Green Jeans?

Edited November 20, 2014 by Potstech

[RocketMan275]

That is a great question. And perhaps it brings us full circle to the topic of this thread. If Princess is not going to enforce the Formal Night attire policy, then perhaps the next best thing would be to enforce the Smart Casual policy as strictly as possible. Frankly, I don't care one bit if someone wears a long-sleeve, open collared shirt on Formal Night. But I do care if people wear t-shirts and baseball caps in the MDRs on Smart Casual nights. Maybe I am wrong to care. But that, to me, is where Princess is in danger of sliding down to the level of Carnival. In other words, I don't really care about the "upper level" of the dress code nearly as much as I care about the "lowest acceptable level" of the dress code. As noted earlier, Princess and HAL have the same Smart Casual policy on non-Formal nights, and it would be great to see that enforced. And to complete the circle, yes...that does include jeans unless the policy were to change!

 

I think we can agree on that.

[golfb4cruzing]

I was very surprised on the Ruby last week, to see the Men's Good Looking Legs Contest, in the Patter. I do believe there is some Carnival morphing going on. The overall atmosphere onboard was the Princess of "recent" old, which I appreciate. Of course my recent old only goes back a few years. High percentage of suits, smattering of tuxes, some without suit coats. However in my defense I recently I dropped 50 lbs and still trending downward. No need to keep purchasing suits until the transformation is complete.

[shepp]

Suppose someone at another table is wearing jeans. Exactly how does this degrade your fine dining experience? Is the experience so fragile that the mere sight of a man wearing jeans destroy that experience?

 

One might broaden that outward, of course. Why would wearing your pajamas to church lessen other people's religious experiences? How about a Harley T-shirt and shorts to a funeral? Property values aside, why would your neighbor letting his house fall into ugly disrepair lessen the pleasure you get from your home? Why care about your visual environment at all? Is your sense of self so fragile?

 

Since the dawn of time, most cultures have dressed up for special occasions. While I certainly no longer feel that formal nights are as special as I did 14 cruises ago, I still would like to delude myself into thinking they're more of an occasion than heading out to MickeyD's. And I still notice how other people present themselves, and take pleasure from how well-dressed people look.

 

I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a gay man, but when my husband and I get a little dressed up, I enjoy the process of deciding what to wear, it gives me pleasure to see how nicely turned out he is, and it pleases me when other people compliment us. Since most all of the resistance to formal night seems to come from (presumably) straight men, not their female counterparts, I'm tempted to launch into an analysis of how, in a patriarchal society, women are judged by how they look, men by what they own and have accomplished. And how some men bridle at being objectified based on their appearance, since that's women's territory. But I'll spare you all that....

 

Frankly, for all the talk about the snobbishness of the fashion police, I kinda sense reverse snobbishness at work, as though not dressing up proves that you're Above All That Nonsense. But I could be wrong.

Edited November 21, 2014 by shepp