Jeans in the Dining Room?

[PrincessLuver]

That is a great question. And perhaps it brings us full circle to the topic of this thread. If Princess is not going to enforce the Formal Night attire policy, then perhaps the next best thing would be to enforce the Smart Casual policy as strictly as possible. Frankly, I don't care one bit if someone wears a long-sleeve, open collared shirt on Formal Night. But I do care if people wear t-shirts and baseball caps in the MDRs on Smart Casual nights. Maybe I am wrong to care. But that, to me, is where Princess is in danger of sliding down to the level of Carnival. In other words, I don't really care about the "upper level" of the dress code nearly as much as I care about the "lowest acceptable level" of the dress code. As noted earlier, Princess and HAL have the same Smart Casual policy on non-Formal nights, and it would be great to see that enforced. And to complete the circle, yes...that does include jeans unless the policy were to change!

 

Carnival's Dress policies are basically the same as Princesses:

 

Cruise Elegant Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Dress slacks, dress shirts. We also suggest a sport coat. If you wish to wear suits and ties or tuxedos, by all means we invite you to do so. Ladies - Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; if you‘d like to show off your evening gowns, that's great too!

 

Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Elegant dinner for ladies and gentlemen: shorts, gym shorts, T-shirts, beach flip-flops, bathing suit attire, jeans, cut-off jeans, sleeveless shirts for men, sportswear, and baseball hats.

 

Princess is not that elite or polished so people really need to get over themselves....I have never seen a fight in a MDR over what others are wearing.....this is almost like people complaining about the weather....it never ends about the way people should dress on CC....:eek:

[RocketMan275]

One might broaden that outward, of course. Why would wearing your pajamas to church lessen other people's religious experiences? How about a Harley T-shirt and shorts to a funeral? Property values aside, why would your neighbor letting his house fall into ugly disrepair lessen the pleasure you get from your home? Why care about your visual environment at all? Is your sense of self so fragile?

 

Since the dawn of time, most cultures have dressed up for special occasions. While I certainly no longer feel that formal nights are as special as I did 14 cruises ago, I still would like to delude myself into thinking they're more of an occasion than heading out to MickeyD's. And I still notice how other people present themselves, and take pleasure from how well-dressed people look.

 

I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a gay man, but when my husband and I get a little dressed up, it gives me pleasure to see how nicely turned out he is, and it pleases me when other people compliment us. Since most all of the resistance to formal night seems to come from (presumably) straight men, not their female counterparts, I'm tempted to launch into an analysis of how, in a patriarchal society, women are judged by how they look, men by what they own and have accomplished. And how some men bridle at being objectified based on their appearance, since that's women's territory. But I'll spare you all that....

 

Frankly, for all the talk about the snobbishness of the fashion police, I kinda sense reverse snobbishness at work, as though not dressing up proves that you're Above All That Nonsense. But I could be wrong.

 

Would my wearing a tuxedo make another person closer to God? I'm not sure but I don't think the deceased care what I wear and whom else am I there to honor? The state of my neighbor's house can certainly affect my property values but why should I let that affect the enjoyment of my house? (PS, I've lived next to some real winners.) You see, I do not believe in giving others control over whether, or how much, I enjoy an experience.

 

Nor do I really notice or care how others present themselves. I can only control my own reactions and I choose not to let that affect me. (See not giving others control above.)

 

If this were truly a patriarchal society where men controlled things then there would be no formal nights.

 

What you think you sense is none of my business. (See controlling others above.)

[Kingofcool1947]

I was very surprised on the Ruby last week, to see the Men's Good Looking Legs Contest, in the Patter. I do believe there is some Carnival morphing going on. The overall atmosphere onboard was the Princess of "recent" old, which I appreciate. Of course my recent old only goes back a few years. High percentage of suits, smattering of tuxes, some without suit coats. However in my defense I recently I dropped 50 lbs and still trending downward. No need to keep purchasing suits until the transformation is complete.

 

i love looking at the women who dress up on Formal Nights.

Love seeing a woman with a pair of nice legs in high heels, or showing a bit of in a dress with a plunging neckline. :o

Edited November 21, 2014 by Kingofcool1947

[AKman2495]

Why should the MDR become the exclusive playground of a particular group of people? If those other venues are such good alternatives to the MDR, why not have one formal night in the MDR and a second in the buffet? If the buffet is good for some, then it should be good for all.

 

Rephrasing slightly: It boils down to this. I (and others) see people who insist on the dress code as saying something like "My preferences come first and I don't care what anybody else prefers"!

 

Well, that is a good question. As others have said, the dress code is defined by the cruise line because they are trying to define the experience. I see formal nights as a rule. (granted, Princess tends to shrink away from enforcing it, but that is a separate problem).

 

So, I actually see it more like, you booked a cruise on a line that has formal nights in the MDR on certain days. They provide alternatives for those who choose not to participate. For those who want to eat in the MDR but not participate I ask why are you unwilling to follow the rules-

 

I've had people tell me it is not a rule.

 

I've had people say it is just a suggestion.

 

etc. etc. etc. What it really boils down to is that some people don't understand that when they sign up for a cruise, they AGREE to follow the rules of the ship-which (IMHO, include formal nights in the MDR).

 

It astounds me that people will sign up for a cruise that has such rules and then they complain about the rules after the fact.

 

If someone wants to eat in the MDR whenever they want without dressing, go to a line that has no formal nights!

 

That is what I think!

[JimmyVWine]

Carnival's Dress policies are basically the same as Princesses:

 

Cruise Elegant Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Dress slacks, dress shirts. We also suggest a sport coat. If you wish to wear suits and ties or tuxedos, by all means we invite you to do so. Ladies - Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; if you‘d like to show off your evening gowns, that's great too!

 

Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Elegant dinner for ladies and gentlemen: shorts, gym shorts, T-shirts, beach flip-flops, bathing suit attire, jeans, cut-off jeans, sleeveless shirts for men, sportswear, and baseball hats.

 

Princess is not that elite or polished so people really need to get over themselves....I have never seen a fight in a MDR over what others are wearing.....this is almost like people complaining about the weather....it never ends about the way people should dress on CC....:eek:

You have quoted Carnival's version of Formal Night. And "feel free to wear a tux" is not the same as "please observe our Formal Dress Code". Besides. I was referring to Princess holding firm to its "Smart Casual" code on non-formal nights as the differentiating factor. The MDRs in Carnival look nothing like Princess's when it comes to attire on non-formal nights, whether that is the result of policy or enforcement.

[AKman2495]

Would my wearing a tuxedo make another person closer to God? I'm not sure but I don't think the deceased care what I wear and whom else am I there to honor?

 

Sorry if I get a little preachy here, but I have been thinking about this for a long time.

 

Well, there used to be a sense of respect for others in this country. You wore a suit to a funeral (not a tux) out of respect. You used to wear reasonable clothes (as opposed to pajama, sweat pants, baseball caps in restaurants etc. etc. etc) out of respect.

 

Now, it seems that we have become the me generation (as evidenced by the explosion of "selfies"), where the attitude become I don't care what anyone else does, I am going to do what makes me happy. Which goes right back to the current state of self absorption in today's society. Anything goes because no one cares what anyone else does. And so if it is good for me, it is good for all.

 

What happens is a self indulgent collapse into hedonism. As a country we no longer respect ourselves. We no longer respect the president, congress or any major institution. Congress is a great example of this-they are all so self absorbed that nothing gets done.

 

The Roman empire fell the same way. In the end, the army was a bunch of mercenaries, the roman people were lazy and self absorbed. The Enemies of Rome simply marched in and took over.

 

Ok...enough! I'm glad I got that off my chest!

[kendon]

Suppose someone at another table is wearing jeans. Exactly how does this degrade your fine dining experience? Is the experience so fragile that the mere sight of a man wearing jeans destroy that experience?

 

Yes, someone wearing sloppy clothing destroys my experience. So what?

[Talisker92]

I will chime in once more on this. Good grief!!! How many more of these, "can I look like a slob in the MDR" threads can we have??

I live in Southern California, and my normal attire is a t-shirt and shorts. I was just on a 31 day cruise on Princess, and I wore slacks and a collared shirt on the informal nights, and a jacket and tie on the formal nights.

For those who cite the baggage charges by airlines.. you are paying thousands for a cruise and will not pay $25 for an extra suitcase?

[Mom33]

Sorry if I get a little preachy here, but I have been thinking about this for a long time.

 

Well, there used to be a sense of respect for others in this country. You wore a suit to a funeral (not a tux) out of respect. You used to wear reasonable clothes (as opposed to pajama, sweat pants, baseball caps in restaurants etc. etc. etc) out of respect.

 

Now, it seems that we have become the me generation (as evidenced by the explosion of "selfies"), where the attitude become I don't care what anyone else does, I am going to do what makes me happy. Which goes right back to the current state of self absorption in today's society. Anything goes because no one cares what anyone else does. And so if it is good for me, it is good for all.

 

What happens is a self indulgent collapse into hedonism. As a country we no longer respect ourselves. We no longer respect the president, congress or any major institution. Congress is a great example of this-they are all so self absorbed that nothing gets done.

 

The Roman empire fell the same way. In the end, the army was a bunch of mercenaries, the roman people were lazy and self absorbed. The Enemies of Rome simply marched in and took over.

 

Ok...enough! I'm glad I got that off my chest!

 

I'm glad you did too! :D You got right to the heart of the problem with society today.

 

Those in society that do the right thing, need not defend their actions. Those that do whatever they want with no respect for others, need to defend their "rights" all the time.

[scott4020]

Princess doesn't enforce the lounge chair hog rules either. I'm sure these people use the same excuse that because the rule is not enforced they don't have to follow it.

[PrincessLuver]

You have quoted Carnival's version of Formal Night. And "feel free to wear a tux" is not the same as "please observe our Formal Dress Code". Besides. I was referring to Princess holding firm to its "Smart Casual" code on non-formal nights as the differentiating factor. The MDRs in Carnival look nothing like Princess's when it comes to attire on non-formal nights, whether that is the result of policy or enforcement.

 

They do too.....we sail both and Princess and Carnival and Princess is not a glam cruise by any means.....there is very little difference in the way people dress on most cruse lines...it is basically a CC myth...this is what is so hypocritical about Princess....people say that people all dress one way and they do not....Princess people are kidding themselves if they think that some how they are the fashionistas of the seas....most of the formal stuff warn on Princess cruises would be laughed out of a real Black Tie Gala.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[PrincessLuver]

Sorry if I get a little preachy here, but I have been thinking about this for a long time.

 

Well, there used to be a sense of respect for others in this country. You wore a suit to a funeral (not a tux) out of respect. You used to wear reasonable clothes (as opposed to pajama, sweat pants, baseball caps in restaurants etc. etc. etc) out of respect.

 

Now, it seems that we have become the me generation (as evidenced by the explosion of "selfies"), where the attitude become I don't care what anyone else does, I am going to do what makes me happy. Which goes right back to the current state of self absorption in today's society. Anything goes because no one cares what anyone else does. And so if it is good for me, it is good for all.

 

What happens is a self indulgent collapse into hedonism. As a country we no longer respect ourselves. We no longer respect the president, congress or any major institution. Congress is a great example of this-they are all so self absorbed that nothing gets done.

 

The Roman empire fell the same way. In the end, the army was a bunch of mercenaries, the roman people were lazy and self absorbed. The Enemies of Rome simply marched in and took over.

 

Ok...enough! I'm glad I got that off my chest!

 

Are you saying it is the end of civilization if Princess relaxes their dress suggestions? :confused:

[RocketMan275]

Sorry if I get a little preachy here, but I have been thinking about this for a long time.

 

Well, there used to be a sense of respect for others in this country. You wore a suit to a funeral (not a tux) out of respect. You used to wear reasonable clothes (as opposed to pajama, sweat pants, baseball caps in restaurants etc. etc. etc) out of respect.

 

Now, it seems that we have become the me generation (as evidenced by the explosion of "selfies"), where the attitude become I don't care what anyone else does, I am going to do what makes me happy. Which goes right back to the current state of self absorption in today's society. Anything goes because no one cares what anyone else does. And so if it is good for me, it is good for all.

 

What happens is a self indulgent collapse into hedonism. As a country we no longer respect ourselves. We no longer respect the president, congress or any major institution. Congress is a great example of this-they are all so self absorbed that nothing gets done.

 

The Roman empire fell the same way. In the end, the army was a bunch of mercenaries, the roman people were lazy and self absorbed. The Enemies of Rome simply marched in and took over.

 

Ok...enough! I'm glad I got that off my chest!

 

Preach all you want. But now that you've had a chance to get something off the chest, I know you won't mind if I do the same.

 

I've heard many say that those who do not like the current formal rules are a part of a 'me generation' and are only interested in themselves and what they want. If you stop and think a bit, you might see that those who make this argument are really taking a position that they accuse others of taking. One persons says I don't want to dress up and the other says but I want you too. How can you accuse one of being a part of the 'me generation' and not the other when both are insisting that what they want is what must be?

 

Respect works both ways. I respect your desire to dress up and enjoy a good meal. If one believes in respecting others, then one must respect their wishes even if they are not what you want. I do not think I can be respectful of another while I'm insisting that they adhere to my wishes.

[RocketMan275]

Yes, someone wearing sloppy clothing destroys my experience. So what?

 

Why give some one the power to ruin your experience simply because of how they dress? People do things I would not do all the time, but I refuse to allow that to ruin anything I've spent thousands upon.

[JimmyVWine]

They do too.....we sail both and Princess and Carnival and Princess is not a glam cruise by any means.....there is very little difference in the way people dress on most cruse lines...it is basically a CC myth...this is what is so hypocritical about Princess....people say that people all dress one way and they do not....Princess people are kidding themselves if they think that some how they are the fashionistas of the seas....most of the formal stuff warn on Princess cruises would be laughed out of a real Black Tie Gala.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Utter nonsense. Shorts and t-shirts are permitted and common on Carnival on Cruise Casual nights. The long pants and golf shirts that Princess passengers wear does not make them "fashionistas". But it does set a different tone.

[shredie]

Frankly, for all the talk about the snobbishness of the fashion police, I kinda sense reverse snobbishness at work, as though not dressing up proves that you're Above All That Nonsense. But I could be wrong.

 

You are not wrong. The Vocal Minority of the Agenda are the worst offenders when in comes to policing fashion. They insist they can wear their cut-offs finery anywhere they want to, and they demand that the people who do dress up should knock it off already. They are the most intolerant bunch here. The Agenda is to get Princess to do away with the dress code, so they mock people who dress up, call them pretentious, tell them they have no right to their opinions, and so forth. While I am sure there are instances of tanks tops and short in the MDR on formal night, the majority of people will be dressed up to one degree or another, whether a shirt and tie or the full tux. People who cruise regularly know this. It's the Vocal Minority with the Agenda who make the most noise on CC threads to create the impression that formal attire is gone, a relic of the past, non-existent and the work of the Devil. This is the case in every (and so many!) threads on the subject here. (The identities of the members of VMA are well-known to everyone on CC.)

[Waimea'sMom]

Preach all you want. But now that you've had a chance to get something off the chest, I know you won't mind if I do the same.

 

I've heard many say that those who do not like the current formal rules are a part of a 'me generation' and are only interested in themselves and what they want. If you stop and think a bit, you might see that those who make this argument are really taking a position that they accuse others of taking. One persons says I don't want to dress up and the other says but I want you too. How can you accuse one of being a part of the 'me generation' and not the other when both are insisting that what they want is what must be?

 

Respect works both ways. I respect your desire to dress up and enjoy a good meal. If one believes in respecting others, then one must respect their wishes even if they are not what you want. I do not think I can be respectful of another while I'm insisting that they adhere to my wishes.

 

I could not agree more! I don't like dressing up, but my mother does. So when I cruise with her, I bring formal attire. My spouse hates dressing up, so when it is just the two of us, we leave it at home. But the one constant is that I don't eat in the dining room on formal night unless I am dressed up. My spouse and I just get pizza, buffet or room service on those nights. I respect the rules enough to adhere to them.

 

That being said - for the life of me, I don't care what the person next to me is wearing. It in no way has an effect on my enjoyment of my meal. And I do think the formal wear fans do impose their wishes of those in casual attire - and vice versa. You folks would really freak out if you saw some of the outfits on the weekend RCCL cruises I have seen. One woman wore a bra and skirt go the dining room. That's it - just a bra and skirt.

 

But I still remember when you were told not to even be out on the ship if not in formal wear. I would always rush back to the cabin to get out of whatever ill-fitting taffeta dress and painful heels my mother forced me to wear - only to know that meant I was in for the night.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Waimea'sMom
typos

[PrincessLuver]

Utter nonsense. Shorts and t-shirts are permitted and common on Carnival on Cruise Casual nights. The long pants and golf shirts that Princess passengers wear does not make them "fashionistas". But it does set a different tone.

 

Believe me....I cruise both lines and several others and Princess is no better then Carnival when it comes to dress.....you can say what you want but my observations and experiences are just as valid as yours....Princess is a cruise line....it is not in the same league as Silversea....Oceania....the 4 Seasons or the Waldorf.....different category of clients....who would probably find Princess quite pedestrian.....:)

[Lovetocruiseprincess]

Or all the talk about changing demographics, Princess has accommodated the new demographic. No one has to participate in formal nights. They have a whole number of venues that do not require dressing up. The problem is that people still insist in going to the MDR is less than formal wear. Those who refuse to accept the formal wear dress code and insist on dining in the MDR may get in, but, IMHO, they do degrade the experience. (Fortunately, not too much).

 

It boils down to this. I (and others) see people who won't follow the dress code ad saying something like "My comfort comes first and I don't care what anybody else thinks_to hell with them!".

 

On the other hand, it seems to me that the "get rid of formal nights crowd" is saying "Who the hell are you to tell me what I should wear. You are old fashioned and I have gotten past playing dress up...So, I will wear what I want when I want where I want!".

 

As for hats in the dining room, that is just rude. Sad to see it becoming so prevalent, but it is still rude. I remember an early episode of the Sopranos when Tony is eating in his buddy's restaurant and some guy is eating with his hat on. Tony goes over and says "Take your hat off...this is a fine restaurant not a ball park". The guy is miffed until he sees it is Tony...He then takes off his hat....

 

We are passengers that dresses casually on formal nights in the DR an don't fit in either of you groups. Even though we don't conform to the formal standards we would never say to get rid of a style that some passengers seem to enjoy & some do so because it suggested of them. Denying them the pleasure of dressing up isn't right nor is mandating a style we should have to conform to in order to enjoy the same thing everyone had paid for. The way Princess handles things today seems to be just fine with most people. Dress up if you like or don't.

That is a great question. And perhaps it brings us full circle to the topic of this thread. If Princess is not going to enforce the Formal Night attire policy, then perhaps the next best thing would be to enforce the Smart Casual policy as strictly as possible. Frankly, I don't care one bit if someone wears a long-sleeve, open collared shirt on Formal Night. But I do care if people wear t-shirts and baseball caps in the MDRs on Smart Casual nights. Maybe I am wrong to care. But that, to me, is where Princess is in danger of sliding down to the level of Carnival. In other words, I don't really care about the "upper level" of the dress code nearly as much as I care about the "lowest acceptable level" of the dress code. As noted earlier, Princess and HAL have the same Smart Casual policy on non-Formal nights, and it would be great to see that enforced. And to complete the circle, yes...that does include jeans unless the policy were to change!

 

Actually, T shirts have been an unofficially acceptable item for many years now on casual nights. I don't think I've ever seen anyone not be admitted wearing one.

[PhoneGoddess]

Believe me....I cruise both lines and several others and Princess is no better then Carnival when it comes to dress.....you can say what you want but my observations and experiences are just as valid as yours....Princess is a cruise line....it is not in the same league as Silversea....Oceania....the 4 Seasons or the Waldorf.....different category of clients....who would probably find Princess quite pedestrian.....:)

 

I have sailed on both lines as well and I have seen some extremely inappropriate attire in the dining room on my Carnival cruises, but I have never seen the same thing on any of my Princess cruises.

[billco]

Sorry if I get a little preachy here, but I have been thinking about this for a long time.

 

Well, there used to be a sense of respect for others in this country. You wore a suit to a funeral (not a tux) out of respect. You used to wear reasonable clothes (as opposed to pajama, sweat pants, baseball caps in restaurants etc. etc. etc) out of respect.

 

Now, it seems that we have become the me generation (as evidenced by the explosion of "selfies"), where the attitude become I don't care what anyone else does, I am going to do what makes me happy. Which goes right back to the current state of self absorption in today's society. Anything goes because no one cares what anyone else does. And so if it is good for me, it is good for all.

 

What happens is a self indulgent collapse into hedonism. As a country we no longer respect ourselves. We no longer respect the president, congress or any major institution. Congress is a great example of this-they are all so self absorbed that nothing gets done.

 

The Roman empire fell the same way. In the end, the army was a bunch of mercenaries, the roman people were lazy and self absorbed. The Enemies of Rome simply marched in and took over.

 

Ok...enough! I'm glad I got that off my chest!

I'm in my 70s. I could swear I have heard this or something similar in every 10 year span since I was a little kid.

[JimmyVWine]

Actually, T shirts have been an unofficially acceptable item for many years now on casual nights. I don't think I've ever seen anyone not be admitted wearing one.

See? Now this is where I would make my stand. Not with formal attire or with unripped jeans. If Princess wants to retain the "gap" it sells between it and its sister line, it should do so by being more rigid with its Smart Casual nights.

 

I have sailed on both lines as well and I have seen some extremely inappropriate attire in the dining room on my Carnival cruises, but I have never seen the same thing on any of my Princess cruises.

Thank you. I cannot dispute what Princessluver claims to have seen, as we have not viewed things through the same set of eyes. But my observations mirror yours.

[babyher]

I'm in my 70s. I could swear I have heard this or something similar in every 10 year span since I was a little kid.

 

 

Exactly.

 

I am an old movie lover. I was recently watching an old film from the 30s where the people were moaning about how much things have gone down hill since "The good old days"

 

 

Times have been changing since time began , and there has alwasy been good an bad along with it, and someone has always been around to complain about the changes and long for the good old days.

[kendon]

Why give some one the power to ruin your experience simply because of how they dress? People do things I would not do all the time, but I refuse to allow that to ruin anything I've spent thousands upon.

 

I have the power to like it or not, and I don't. On formal nights, we ask to be seated with those respecting the dress code and always get a wonderful smile from the maitre'd.:)

[Cruise Junky]

I have the power to like it or not, and I don't. On formal nights, we ask to be seated with those respecting the dress code and always get a wonderful smile from the maitre'd.:)

 

So you go to the dining room with the expectation that some people won't be respecting the dress code? Interesting

Edited November 21, 2014 by Cruise Junky