Celebrity Business Practices Getting Annoying

[RDC1]

I usually am on cruise ships about 70-80 days a year on various lines. I have been cruising on Celebrity about every 15 months for the last 10 years (about 1 out of 6 cruises), more often on M class, though I have also cruised on S class. During the past few years I have seen Celebrity make changes in their business practices that are getting increasingly annoying.

 

Today I was looking into booking a cruise next November. Already at this time all traditional dinning is wait listed. Early traditional is not even available to be wait listed. I have never had this happen on any cruise line this far in advance.

 

This change in practice, comes on top of changes eliminating combination of OBC, the need to prepay excursions booked in advance, the need to prepay gratuities when in MTD, the web site issues, the customer service wait times.

 

In my case the inability to get early traditional dining is the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. No early traditional, no booking that cruise.

 

Too many other lines that have practices more in line with what I am looking for.

[TeaBag]

You could book Select and then you could go early.

[Orator]

I usually am on cruise ships about 70-80 days a year on various lines. I have been cruising on Celebrity about every 15 months for the last 10 years (about 1 out of 6 cruises), more often on M class, though I have also cruised on S class. During the past few years I have seen Celebrity make changes in their business practices that are getting increasingly annoying.

 

Today I was looking into booking a cruise next November. Already at this time all traditional dinning is wait listed. Early traditional is not even available to be wait listed. I have never had this happen on any cruise line this far in advance.

 

This change in practice, comes on top of changes eliminating combination of OBC, the need to prepay excursions booked in advance, the need to prepay gratuities when in MTD, the web site issues, the customer service wait times.

 

In my case the inability to get early traditional dining is the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. No early traditional, no booking that cruise.

 

Too many other lines that have practices more in line with what I am looking for.

 

Let's see: They sold out and therefore it's an annoying business practice. People paid in advance to get what they wanted and this is an annoying business practice? There appears to be a high demand for their product and they are reacting accordingly. As I stock holder I would think that they would be acting irresponsibly if they didn't attempt to maximize profits and that would be annoying to me.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Orator

[cruisestitch]

While I agree about a lot of the gripes listed, I also see the solution to the dining times not being available is just what was suggested, book Select and dine at the time you want. But perhaps it isn't just the time that's the issue, it's the desire to have a large table, meet lots of new people who you will see each night, and have the same waiter. For that you do need traditional dining. Or the desire to not pay the gratuities, but I doubt that's it in this OP's case. Although I do wonder if he's confusing Celebrity with another line, since he referenced MTD, which is not a phrase used on Celebrity?

[Christine Frances]

I find I have to book really early to make sure I get Early Traditional. I also book early so that I can get the cabin I want and the best pricing (at least so far lol)

[Sloop-JohnB]

I find I have to book really early to make sure I get Early Traditional. I also book early so that I can get the cabin I want and the best pricing (at least so far lol)

 

100% agree

 

The days of waiting things out and getting an AMAZING Deal are gone. celebrity has a HOT Product right now... You book way in advance for he best pricing & selection... And then smile :D largely as the prices climb.

 

So ya, there is truly a good chance that Traditional Early is full up already

 

That or the website has run amuck once more (lol could happen :rolleyes: )

 

Which is why I at least have totally given up on the website... We just call when we want to book something

 

Not clear by your post if you did that (spoke to Celebrity directly)

 

You may find that Traditional Early is available... Or you could be wait listed (was told once that the DEFAULT is Traditional Early... And so lots of people end up in that category although it might not be what they ultimately want).

 

Cheers!

Ps... Even if you book with a TA you can often get a Celebrity Phone Rep to give you info make Dining Changes etc

[terrierjohn]

I find I have to book really early to make sure I get Early Traditional. I also book early so that I can get the cabin I want and the best pricing (at least so far lol)

We also need to book early because we need an accessible cabin, but I agree so far we have never seen our price, for the grade booked, bettered later on.

However I do agree with one gripe from the op, I can't see why when everyone now has auto gratuities, that only select dining has to pre-pay.

[cruisestitch]

Not everyone has gratuities pre-paid as part of a booking perk. This option isn't available, for example, on transatlantic cruises.

[teecee60]

100% agree

 

The days of waiting things out and getting an AMAZING Deal are gone.

 

I disagree...

 

I recently enjoyed a 23 night transpacific on Century for $799pp w/$250 OBC. :D

 

A week after that, I enjoyed a 15 night transatlantic on Reflection for $649pp w/$350 OBC. :)

 

I am booked on Silhouette for a 14 night transatlantic for $699pp w/$450 OBC. :cool:

 

I just had to (regrettably) say "NO" to a 16 night, Panama Canal/South America cruise on Infinity for $649pp with $250 OBC. :(

 

Same for a 7 night Caribbean cruise on Silhouette for $399pp w/ $100 OBC. :o

 

 

"AMAZING deals" ARE available for those who are willing to search for them. ;)

[lisiamc]

Let's see: They sold out and therefore it's an annoying business practice. People paid in advance to get what they wanted and this is an annoying business practice? There appears to be a high demand for their product and they are reacting accordingly. As I stock holder I would think that they would be acting irresponsibly if they didn't attempt to maximize profits and that would be annoying to me.

 

I don't think traditional early dining sold out more than 11 months prior to sailing because the cruise is so popular. I'm pretty sure it sold out because Celebrity is only making a very reduced portion of traditional dining seats available to book this early. I'm willing to bet that more places in traditional dining will become available later. In the meantime, this particular business practice is pretty irritating to those who want to know where they stand from the day they book, and not take a chance. If I'm wrong, and demand for traditional dining really is that high, they need to make more seats available. Giving people what they want is always a better business practice than annoying them, surely.

[hulamoon]

I think pricing is a mixed bag, but in what we book it is climbing.

 

I am trying early tradition for the first time this week, and I find if I don't get select early enough it is sold out! So it just depends.

 

As far as prepaid Grats, plenty of TA's give them.

 

I wonder could this be people now booking multiple cabins to have options until they see what they are going to keep? I once had a booking cancelled on Another line as I was accidentally overbooked. But, if that is okay then I may start doing it too.

[RDC1]

Let's see: They sold out and therefore it's an annoying business practice. People paid in advance to get what they wanted and this is an annoying business practice? There appears to be a high demand for their product and they are reacting accordingly. As I stock holder I would think that they would be acting irresponsibly if they didn't attempt to maximize profits and that would be annoying to me.

 

No, they are not even close to selling out the ship. For all of the people that say Celebrity and RCL's move towards MTD and away from traditional is due to demand then explain how a year in advance they are out of traditional and only have MTD.

 

The business practice is the reduction in traditional dining space forcing a move to MTD, with prepaid gratuities.

 

I am also a stock holder, just may not be a customer anymore. As a stock holder I would that none of these actually increase revenue. All they do is move the payments forward in time, from end of cruise to full payment date. In this day of low interest rates it would not be material to their 10q or 10k filings. Some of the changes in customer service response time might be saving them a few dollars in expenses.

Edited December 2, 2014 by RDC1

[RDC1]

I don't think traditional early dining sold out more than 11 months prior to sailing because the cruise is so popular. I'm pretty sure it sold out because Celebrity is only making a very reduced portion of traditional dining seats available to book this early. I'm willing to bet that more places in traditional dining will become available later. In the meantime, this particular business practice is pretty irritating to those who want to know where they stand from the day they book, and not take a chance. If I'm wrong, and demand for traditional dining really is that high, they need to make more seats available. Giving people what they want is always a better business practice than annoying them, surely.

 

They may be holding them in reserve. I would expect some holding. What is unusual is early dining is not even available to be put on a wait list. In either case either they are not allocating enough dining room space for traditional or they are holding far more slots back than they have in the past. In either case it is a change in practice.

 

If I was cynical I might think that they are forcing people to pre-book MTD and lock in the pre-paid gratuities, even if they can get traditional later on or on the ship.

[wallie5446]

the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. No early traditional, no booking that cruise.

 

.

 

Why the debate? The OP has made their choice and moved on down lifes seaway.:D

[Christine Frances]

It's not like you have to pay the gratuities now:confused: They are not due until final pay't. You pay them anyway so what is the difference?

Edited December 2, 2014 by Christine Frances

[RDC1]

While I agree about a lot of the gripes listed, I also see the solution to the dining times not being available is just what was suggested, book Select and dine at the time you want. But perhaps it isn't just the time that's the issue, it's the desire to have a large table, meet lots of new people who you will see each night, and have the same waiter. For that you do need traditional dining. Or the desire to not pay the gratuities, but I doubt that's it in this OP's case. Although I do wonder if he's confusing Celebrity with another line, since he referenced MTD, which is not a phrase used on Celebrity?

 

Do not care for select. Like the same table and same staff for a cruise.

 

ATD, MTD, Select. Take your choice. The booking form listed it at MTD for the Infinity.

[Orator]

No, they are not even close to selling out the ship. For all of the people that say Celebrity and RCL's move towards MTD and away from traditional is due to demand then explain how a year in advance they are out of traditional and only have MTD.

 

The business practice is the reduction in traditional dining space forcing a move to MTD, with prepaid gratuities.

 

I am also a stock holder, just may not be a customer anymore.

 

You are partially correct about reduced Traditional space. The Select Dining area was sometimes divided to increase space for Traditional dining. This was typically on the Port side. On most cruises both Starboard and Port were used for Select dining. When they created Blu on the M Class ships the space came from the Port side of Select, thus reducing Select seating on most cruises. Who knows what will happen with the addition of a Suite Restaurant. The industry trend now appears to be eliminating a MDR with Traditional dining entirely a la NCL and Quantium Class RCL ships.

[RDC1]

It's not like you have to pay the gratuities now:confused: They are not due until final pay't. You pay them anyway so what is the difference?

 

Like many things it is an annoyance. Apparently Celebrity thinks there is a difference since they have changed their business practice to collect them. Same as with excursions. You end up paying the same amount in the end, but it does end up with more money in Celebrities hands at prior to the cruise.

 

The total for excursions and gratuities can end up be a fair percentage of overall cruise fare.

 

Also makes for more things that can go wrong. Have seen cases of where gratuities have been prepaid and the ship not recognizing prepayment.

 

I like paying gratuities when or after service is provided, not 3 month before the cruise even starts.

[RDC1]

Why the debate? The OP has made their choice and moved on down lifes seaway.:D

 

Because that is what we do on CC. Eliminate the debate and there would be very few postings.

[Orator]

Like many things it is an annoyance. Apparently Celebrity thinks there is a difference since they have changed their business practice to collect them. Same as with excursions. You end up paying the same amount in the end, but it does end up with more money in Celebrities hands at prior to the cruise.

 

The total for excursions and gratuities can end up be a fair percentage of overall cruise fare.

 

Also makes for more things that can go wrong. Have seen cases of where gratuities have been prepaid and the ship not recognizing prepayment.

 

I like paying gratuities when or after service is provided, not 3 month before the cruise even starts.

I agree athe debate, if civil, can be useful. Why do you think they require pre paid gratuities for Select dining? According to at least 3 Restaurant Managers, it's because diners in Select go from table to table and waiter to waiter and did not tip, or gave small tips to servers. The pre paid tips are now divided among the servers. You can always reduce or increase your gratuities by going to Guest Relations, but that takes some effort and most won't do it.Excursions are only optional and no one is forced to take one. Now some higher priced lines do include excursions in the pricing so they ARE forcing you to pay whether you take the excursion or not.

We all have our own preferences and since it's our money we should make choices that reflect or individual wants and needs.

[wallie5446]

Because that is what we do on CC. Eliminate the debate and there would be very few postings.

 

I get that, I have been around these here boards for a spell myself. But when someone post they are taking their business elsewhere, okie dokie then. Reads like you want sympathy, or us to talk you out of moving on. You dont like Celebritys business plan got it. Enjoy what ever line provides the plan you seek.

[Gracie115]

Do not care for select. Like the same table and same staff for a cruise.

 

ATD, MTD, Select. Take your choice. The booking form listed it at MTD for the Infinity.

 

I think one of two things have happened....the website is wrong...call Celebrity direct to get the real deal OR

 

(and I think this may be the real deal)

 

since the Suite Dining room is being cut out of the MDR there IS INDEED less space available for traditional dining, especially on the M class ships which already had Blu cut out of the MDR, so it may be that whatever amount of early dining they allot this far out are indeed taken....they may or may not open up more later....since these new Suite Dining rooms haven't actually happened yet they may be "hedging their bet" to make sure they don't overbook the early dining time until they have ironed out all the wrinkles with this new concept.....just a guess but I do think it's a possibility.

[RDC1]

I agree athe debate, if civil, can be useful. Why do you think they require pre paid gratuities for Select dining? According to at least 3 Restaurant Managers, it's because diners in Select go from table to table and waiter to waiter and did not tip, or gave small tips to servers. The pre paid tips are now divided among the servers. You can always reduce or increase your gratuities by going to Guest Relations, but that takes some effort and most won't do it.Excursions are only optional and no one is forced to take one. Now some higher priced lines do include excursions in the pricing so they ARE forcing you to pay whether you take the excursion or not.

We all have our own preferences and since it's our money we should make choices that reflect or individual wants and needs.

 

Now that makes for an very interesting question. If gratuities must be prepaid and cannot be canceled then do they still qualify as gratuities as far as financial reporting (SEC) and tax requirements (IRS)? Are they covered by travel insurance in case of an issue since they are not part of the trip cost that the insurance is calculated against? or are the gratuities now included in the calculation of that insurance? If you have to cancel after last payment date and do not have insurance are they refunded?

 

That is why the initial posting said change in practice. A few years ago they did not require prepayment of excursions. Now you have to prepay and if you cancel before boarding it goes back to your CC, but if you cancel on ship it goes to OBC. Have not checked to see if that OBC is refundable or not.

 

Some lines include excursions in fare, some include some excursions in fare but not others. Most still do not require prepayment of optional excursions.

 

The list can go on

Edited December 3, 2014 by RDC1

[RDC1]

I think one of two things have happened....the website is wrong...call Celebrity direct to get the real deal OR

 

(and I think this may be the real deal)

 

since the Suite Dining room is being cut out of the MDR there IS INDEED less space available for traditional dining, especially on the M class ships which already had Blu cut out of the MDR, so it may be that whatever amount of early dining they allot this far out are indeed taken....they may or may not open up more later....since these new Suite Dining rooms haven't actually happened yet they may be "hedging their bet" to make sure they don't overbook the early dining time until they have ironed out all the wrinkles with this new concept.....just a guess but I do think it's a possibility.

 

My thought is in line with this. Kind of takes one back to the discussion about the suite perks and people said why should one care about the extra perks for suites. My response at that time was that I did not care, unless it started to impact my cruise experience. Well if you are correct it has started to do so.

 

The other thought is that Celebrity will be following the parent company into the land of no traditional dining at some point and that you will see more space allocated to select and less to traditional over time.

 

Of course both could be true.

[RDC1]

I get that, I have been around these here boards for a spell myself. But when someone post they are taking their business elsewhere, okie dokie then. Reads like you want sympathy, or us to talk you out of moving on. You dont like Celebritys business plan got it. Enjoy what ever line provides the plan you seek.

 

Or the purpose was to have a real discussion about the companies changes in business practices over time. Using my experience and view as part of the kick off to that discussion.