What ever happened to a little patience?

[GUT2407]

Patience has gone the same way as manners.

 

Because the World is now all about "ME" these things are no longer necessary.

[Abercram]

Patience has gone the same way as manners.

 

Because the World is now all about "ME" these things are no longer necessary.

 

 

Sadly I think this is the root of it all. I had a lady yell at me at my work today because our candy was "too bloody expensive." Last time I checked you didn't go to a pharmacy to get cheap candy, and that candy isn't a necessity... And yelling at the employees won't change the prices.

Unfortunately all people care about is themselves for the most part. The more I work in the public the more negative I feel about it. However I try to keep the positive, polite people in mind as they are that much more encouraging, though few and far between. Ultimately the only thing we can do is try our best to be patient and polite and try to show others that maybe that is the better way to be. It might take, it might not.

[Warm Breezes]

Patience has gone the same way as manners.

 

Because the World is now all about "ME" these things are no longer necessary.

 

That is the same thought that crossed my mind as I read the OP's post.

[OCruisers]

I was on a British ship last year (Queen Victoria) for 94 days with people from England, Scotland, Australia, Canada and the U.S. We all spoke English but we still had problems understanding each other sometimes.

Don

 

How true that is! :D

LuLu

[DirtyDawg]

When I speak to people who don't speak English very well, I try to use easy words and no conjunctions or slang BECAUSE that is the way I like for people to speak Spanish to me. :D

LuLu

 

So true!:) For me it's Spanish and sadly French :( I say sadly because I was born in La Belle Province and my French today is horrifique.:o

[griffy116]

We've traveled to Europe and been very fortunate that THEY speak English in many places we visited. We know a few phrases, but certainly nothing that could be depended on to get us by in every situation. We have always been able to get what we needed or get our questions answered with a combination of phrases, hand gestures and a translation app on our phones. I think the fact that we are SO very pleased and feel so excited about being able to see these places is part of the success we've enjoyed. We understand that WE are the ones that don't speak the language. We are happy to find someone who is patient with us and our attempts and what I'm sure is a total BUTCHERING of their language. We smile and do the best we can and we usually find that ATTITUDE is key. We love being there and they are proud of their city and happy to help us enjoy it. The only rude people we have encountered..have been other tourists. :(

[greatam]

Same time frame, but "back east". My HS had three diploma tracks - you either got an "academic", "general", or "commercial". The last was for the "secretary/bookkeeper/clerk" career path, the first for those going on to college, and the middle for "everybody else". In order to get an "academic" diploma, two years of the same foreign language was a graduation requirement.

 

Although the three "titles" have been abolished, my old HS has a foreign language requirement - now for every student. German, French, Spanish and Latin.

 

It must be an East Coast thing. Here are graduation requirement charts from both Phoenix and Los Angeles. Neither have a language requirement. I did notice that both the Cal State College System and the University of California system now REQUIRE two years of language for admission. Certainly wasn't required when I matriculated at UCLA in 1966, most likely because every graduating senior with a C or better average and a mid range SAT score was guaranteed a slot. Due to the huge population increases in CA, the competition to get into a state college or university has gotten really, really tight. Since about 1988, just because you graduated from a CA high school, even with 2 years of a foreign language, DOES NOT guarantee you get into a CA state college or university. You might have to go to Junior College first. But if you go the JV route, you don't have to have the language requirement.

 

http://www.azed.gov/hsgraduation/

 

http://home.lausd.net/ourpages/auto/2011/12/21/53468052/2010-2011 GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS CHART

 

I just asked my step sons. They went to HS and college in Iowa. I didn't think either one of them took language classes. Neither Des Moines public schools or Kansas City have any kind of language requirement just to graduate high school.

 

http://www.dmschools.org/academics/graduation-requirements/

 

http://www.kcpublicschools.org/Page/1274

[FlyerTalker]

I'm not sure texting would be such a good idea when trying to order dinner, ask a salesperson a questions when shopping, ask a bus driver if you are on correct vehicle........ All those times when you are face to face with a person who speaks a language different than any you know. You can only take up just so much of their time and Patience.

Actually, has worked well. The app remembers past translations, so you can just call it up. Or you can type in advance a question and its ready to go. Or....just a few key words that you need. Much easier than one might think, and the people actually appreciate that you are trying to communicate in a way that THEY can understand.

 

Definitely suggest you try it unless your keyboard entry speed on your device is measured in words per hour. With a small number. ;)

[greatam]

Most states in the US have required at least two years of a foreign language as a requirement for graduation for about 15 years now.

 

It has got to be an East Coast thing. I just called my niece and nephew. Both University of Nevada Reno graduates, one with a Masters in special ed, one going to Duke right now for an MBA.

 

One graduated from HS in Colorado, one in Nevada. While my niece took Spanish for two years, she said it was not required for graduation or to get into college (they are both early-mid 30's). My nephew (going to Duke right now) had no language studies until he got to college. Then he chose to take Arabic because he worked part time in the financial arena all during his undergraduate years and the company he was employed by did a lot of business in the Middle East. He had to take the courses via the internet because UNR offered no Arabic classes until recently.

 

So that is at least 7 states in the West that don't require language classes-AZ, CA, NV, CO, WA, IA, MO.

[navybankerteacher]

Sadly, the way languages are taught in most public schools is not terribly effective. Too few teachers are native speakers of the language being taught, and they rely on text books and written exercises rather than the more-difficult-to-teach conversation.

 

If public schools were to model themselves on the conversation-intensive approach followed by commercial language schools and the military, they would have a much better result for the class time invested. Too many graduates with two years of foreign language are simply not able to speak that language with any effective level of communication.

[notentirelynormal]

Sadly I think this is the root of it all. I had a lady yell at me at my work today because our candy was "too bloody expensive." Last time I checked you didn't go to a pharmacy to get cheap candy, and that candy isn't a necessity... And yelling at the employees won't change the prices.

 

I know when I went to high school back in the 70s in BC Canada it was required if you wanted to go on a higher level of education.

 

This always amazes me. Why get mad at the poor guy that answered your call when you are p***ed off. HE/SHE didn't cause the problem and is there to help you (well hopefully). Had I been in the store I might have been equally loud but counteracting the nasty lady.

[parallax]

I didn't intend this to devolve into foreign language requirements around the United States. If you how languages are taught overseas, it typically begins when your 6 or 7. At the age, you are much more adept at learning languages. I wish in the States we could take the same approach.

 

A friend of our family from Switzerland has a 9 year old that speaks fluent English, German and French. She makes me feel inadequate as I barely speak passable Spanish.

 

I will have to say that one of the funniest conversations I ever saw on a cruise ship was a guy from Scotland trying to talk with a guy from the deep south (Alabama) at the Martini Bar. I don't either one could understand what the other one was saying.

Edited March 24, 2015 by parallax

[Krazy Kruizers]

Patience -- manners -- gone for the most part.

It is a different world.

In our high schools, only those going to college have to take a foreign language. Those in the business courses and trades (auto shop, beauty school, etc.) are not required to take a foreign language.

I took Latin, German and French -- that was over 55 years ago. Can only speak and read a few words today.

[sail7seas]

It has got to be an East Coast thing. I just called my niece and nephew. Both University of Nevada Reno graduates, one with a Masters in special ed, one going to Duke right now for an MBA.

 

One graduated from HS in Colorado, one in Nevada. While my niece took Spanish for two years, she said it was not required for graduation or to get into college (they are both early-mid 30's). My nephew (going to Duke right now) had no language studies until he got to college. Then he chose to take Arabic because he worked part time in the financial arena all during his undergraduate years and the company he was employed by did a lot of business in the Middle East. He had to take the courses via the internet because UNR offered no Arabic classes until recently.

 

So that is at least 7 states in the West that don't require language classes-AZ, CA, NV, CO, WA, IA, MO.

 

I didn't intend this to devolve into foreign language requirements around the United States. If you how languages are taught overseas, it typically begins when your 6 or 7. At the age, you are much more adept at learning languages. I wish in the States we could take the same approach.

 

A friend of our family from Switzerland has a 9 year old that speaks fluent English, German and French. She makes me feel inadequate as I barely speak passable Spanish.

 

<snip>.

 

 

 

I think it's wonderful European countries start foreign language education at an early age but I think it needs to be noted that travel between Germany, Italy, France, Switzerland etc are a car ride, train trip away. When you have so many countries so near and easily accessible for frequent travel, be it business or pleasure, being bi- or tri-linqual is more urgent than when across the pond.

 

I do think children in U.S. school should have required Spanish as the population of Spanish speakers has increased and it behooves both English as well as Spanish speakers to be able to communicate easily.

 

Yes, I know that raises the question about why not have them learn other languages as well and that is their parents' and school systems choice to make.

 

Edited March 24, 2015 by sail7seas

[navybankerteacher]

I think it's wonderful European countries start foreign language education at an early age but I think it needs to be noted that travel between Germany, Italy, France, Switzerland etc are a car ride, train trip away. When you have so many countries so near and easily accessible for frequent travel, be it business or pleasure, being bi- or tri-linqual is more urgent than when across the pond.

 

I do think children in U.S. school should have required Spanish as the population of Spanish speakers has increased and it behooves both English as well as Spanish speakers to be able to communicate easily.

 

Yes, I know that raises the question about why not have them learn other languages as well and that is their parents' and school systems choice to make.

 

R

Of course, Spanish is the only consciously "official" language in the United States. English is most widely used by a long shot, but that is only by custom and practice. In New York State special legislation was passed requiring state documents to be in Spanish as well as the customary English. I imagine a number of other states have similar legislation.

 

It has been proposed that it would be a kindness to require fluency in English before granting anyone permanent residence. Not only would it help newcomers assimilate more quickly, it would help their children as well. There are areas where English is not the primary language - putting residents at a long term disadvantage..

 

Finally, one required official language would build unity - the periodic independence movements in Quebec show one of the downsides of bi-lingualism.

[DirtyDawg]

R

Of course, Spanish is the only consciously "official" language in the United States. English is most widely used by a long shot, but that is only by custom and practice. In New York State special legislation was passed requiring state documents to be in Spanish as well as the customary English. I imagine a number of other states have similar legislation.

 

It has been proposed that it would be a kindness to require fluency in English before granting anyone permanent residence. Not only would it help newcomers assimilate more quickly, it would help their children as well. There are areas where English is not the primary language - putting residents at a long term disadvantage..

 

Finally, one required official language would build unity - the periodic independence movements in Quebec show one of the downsides of bi-lingualism.

 

There are close to 200 different countries in the world about 75% of them have more than one official language. The U.S. is in the minority (just like most countries in the world play the proper football ;))

 

And most of those countries seem to be getting along just fine.

Edited March 24, 2015 by DirtyDawg

[navybankerteacher]

There are close to 200 different countries in the world about 75% of them have more than one official language. The U.S. is in the minority (just like most countries in the world play the proper football ;))

 

And most of those countries seem to be getting along just fine.

 

Most of those countries are multilingual because they are the result of centuries of merging cultures - and individuals in those countries experience limitations on their opportunities if they are not fluent in the most widely used tongue - just as a Native American faces limitations if unable to speak English. Common language is unarguably a major component in assimilation and equal opportunity. Of course it is advantageous for any individual to be fluent in multiple languages - but it is ridiculous to argue that a common language in any environment of activity is not an important asset -- in the case of international avistion, for example, English has been recognized (perhaps unfairly - but essential that one language be chosen) as the official and only acceptable language for pilots.

[GUT2407]

I was on a British ship last year (Queen Victoria) for 94 days with people from England, Scotland, Australia, Canada and the U.S. We all spoke English but we still had problems understanding each other sometimes.

 

Don

 

 

So true. I have trouble understanding some Aussies and I is one.

[sail7seas]

There are close to 200 different countries in the world about 75% of them have more than one official language. The U.S. is in the minority (just like most countries in the world play the proper football ;))

 

And most of those countries seem to be getting along just fine.

 

Does everyone/every country need to be like all others?

 

Isn't the diversity part of the reason we travel so eagerly? To see, hear, smell, taste all the differences?

 

[slidergirl]

I have ass**les all the time at my hotel yelling, demeaning and outright lying to staff. These are people who are willing to unload $2000/night to stay at our hotel in the winter with their families. Call for a toothbrush at 8:15; call back 5 minutes later and scream at the person on the other end of the phone line that they've been waiting over an hour; they don't realize that we log and timestamp EVERY call that comes in… Tell the Front Desk that they were guaranteed the highest floor with the best view and the private Sherpa - none of those are EVER guaranteed. And, I'm sorry to say that the vast majority of those rude, patience-less people come from a certain tri-state metropolitan area of the NorthEast USA….

We have many people who stay with us who are definitely non-native English speakers. I have very rarely encountered one of these guests who start getting louder and then up set that I cannot understand them. We both work at it to get the necessary point across with no consternation needed.

 

UCLA '76 here - and I needed to have foreign language done (I can't remember if it was 2 or 3 years' worth) in order to apply. Mine was Spanish - even went through AP Spanish my senior year of HS. One of my roommates was majoring in Folklore and Mythology - had to take a foreign language; chose to take Sanskrit :D

Edited March 24, 2015 by slidergirl

[Onessa]

We were given a seminar at work on communicating with co-workers and customers whose first language was not English. We were told to not use contractions or slang.

I work with an immigrant from Serbia, several Indians, and two immigrants from Laos/Vietnam.

 

The Serbian collects English words and phrases and we spend time over lunch where I explain them to him. He was kind enough to teach me some Serbian words/phrases so I could be polite in Serbia and Coratia when we traveled there. The Indians speak at least three different languages as their primary language and typically need to use English as their common language even among themselves. The east Asians have a similar language barrier. Most of my co-workers want to learn the slang and the contractions so that they can understand other people in the area better. But it is important to be able to explain and remain patient if you need to reword.

 

I didn't intend this to devolve into foreign language requirements around the United States. If you how languages are taught overseas, it typically begins when your 6 or 7. At the age, you are much more adept at learning languages. I wish in the States we could take the same approach.

 

A friend of our family from Switzerland has a 9 year old that speaks fluent English, German and French. She makes me feel inadequate as I barely speak passable Spanish.

An American friend of mine married a German and lives in Berlin where they are raising their two sons. Both are easy in both English and German, but foreign language literacy is not required even in their school system and many of the kids they know speak little other than German. We've hosted high school kids in a music program from different European countries the past few summers and their ability to speak languages other than their own varies greatly (but all know how to communicate things like "is there an Abercrombie and Fich" or "Hollister" near by :)!)

 

My DD is a college freshman who took six years of Spainish in high school. She needed two years to be accepted into the program she wanted at any of the six "Big Ten" schools to which she applied. Her college program requires two semesters of foreign language (but since her high school program was a college program she has four semesters of Spanish and will likely need to skip taking another for now due to other constraints of the requirements of her double major). As others have explained, even if a language is not a requirement to graduate, it can be a barrier to getting into the college of your choice or may delay getting into the program you want.

I will have to say that one of the funniest conversations I ever saw on a cruise ship was a guy from Scotland trying to talk with a guy from the deep south (Alabama) at the Martini Bar. I don't either one could understand what the other one was saying.

I have had Texans drawl at me that "Honey, you are guna have to slow down, I can't keep up with you." and coasties complain that I speak too slowly.

[DirtyDawg]

Most of those countries are multilingual because they are the result of centuries of merging cultures - and individuals in those countries experience limitations on their opportunities if they are not fluent in the most widely used tongue - just as a Native American faces limitations if unable to speak English. Common language is unarguably a major component in assimilation and equal opportunity. Of course it is advantageous for any individual to be fluent in multiple languages - but it is ridiculous to argue that a common language in any environment of activity is not an important asset -- in the case of international avistion, for example, English has been recognized (perhaps unfairly - but essential that one language be chosen) as the official and only acceptable language for pilots.

 

I was referring to your assertion that a common language builds unity and your reference to Quebec. I should have isolated that part of the quote.

[DirtyDawg]

Does everyone/every country need to be like all others?

 

Isn't the diversity part of the reason we travel so eagerly? To see, hear, smell, taste all the differences?

 

 

Agreed. But I don't know why you quoted me. My post had nothing to do with your point.

 

And now back to the original thread topic........

Edited March 24, 2015 by DirtyDawg

[navybankerteacher]

I was referring to your assertion that a common language builds unity and your reference to Quebec. I should have isolated that part of the quote.

 

Quebec is a clear example of a situation where LACK of a common language has led to disunity. When Britain took over Quebec at the end of the Seven Years War they allowed the French speaking communities to continue using French as their official governmental language -- since then there have been periodic surges of secessionist emotion exploited by politicians.

[cadien]

So that is at least 7 states in the West that don't require language classes-AZ, CA, NV, CO, WA, IA, MO.

 

Add the three states I've lived in. I just checked current requirements for all -- AK, OR, ND.