RCL to end last minute discounting ??

[marci22]

I don't even know why he felt he had to say that. Just do it; they make all their other changes that way.

 

It would have been nice if he had made the comment more from the perspective of the customer rather than as a way to protect Royal's "branding". Because then it wouldn't be about taking away discounts, it would be about starting out with more reasonable pricing.

 

And I'm sure if you put it that way, most people would be happy with the idea. Price the cruise so it sells well before final. That way you don't have to offer ridiculous discounts later to fill the ship.

 

When it comes down to it, customers have the last say because they determine where to spend their dollars. Most people have some type of budget. It's not

'trip of a lifetime', every time. So he has to work with that.

[CoachT]

This news and the higher prices thrills me to no end!

[nbsjcruiser]

So do what NCL does. They call people and upswell empty space at the last minute and it is not published. Unless you brag to someone about it nobody will know. What is the point in having empty cabins when you sail? You can still try and make revenue on the ship.

 

My opinion is, so what if people find out you got a good deal? We're all playing by the same rules. If I book a cruise 18 months out at a price I think is good and then 2 weeks prior its 50% of what I paid, so what? I could have waited until 2 weeks out but because of my situation I opted to book early. The people who waited for a good deal got the good deal. They could have just as easily paid more. Its a risk they took that I was either unwilling to take or, because of my situation was unable to make. Its not their fault. I have only myself to blame, not the cruise line.

 

I wish Fain would just be honest with this. Tell the truth - you are doing it because you don't want to sell cheap cabins and you think in the long run you'll make more money. To make believe he's doing us a big favour by getting us out of the "used car mentality" is nothing but pure utter horse manure.

[Setting sail for fun]

I've read a lot of comments that RCI can make more money by deeply discounting unsold cabins at the last minute because the loss on discounted cabin fares will be more than offset by the money these people spend on-board.

 

It's not clear that the ones who trying to find a cruise at the last minute at the cheapest possible price will spend any money on-board. Why should they if all they're trying to do is sale as cheaply as possible? If you doubt that, stop and think the complaints about pre-paid gratuities preventing passengers from using their obc to pay for gratuities.

 

I suspect that RCI knows more about making money on a cruise ship than the majority of CC posters. RCI tracks who spends what, where and how much on-board. If they were losing money by not deeply discounting last minute cabins, they would know it.

 

I think the last minute discounts are an incentive for individuals to book a cruise.

I have taken three cruises in the past year and at least two of them were booked within 4 weeks of the sail date.

 

I am retired and like to be able to decide at the last minute and go! As far as on-board spending goes, on last month's cruise, we did two dinners at Chops and three RC excursions so the no spending on board doesn't necessarily fit here.

 

I do think if RC succeeds in having cruisers purchase the expensive drink packages, they may not need to fill the ships. The few will be paying the big bucks! It will just help my stock - even if I am not sailing!

[caribbean sailor]

I'm not one to ever book short term so I may be happy with this decision. I won't mind a bit if our cruise is not sailing at maximum capacity :D More food and drinks for me ;)

 

If royal continues to raise prices with no discounts,they could sail with only ten cabins booked.That would be a great cruise. :D :rolleyes:

[runner2013]

Here's a thought.

If cruise lines choose to sail with empty cabins that also means less people spending money in ports or on excursions. That means less for those areas that depend on tourism as a way to survive. Have to wonder if they lose enough money will they start putting pressure on the cruise lines to do something to get people back on board??

[ciera123]

Well . . . What is "said" and what is done are sometimes 2 different things. Supply and demand will always rule. And what will be too many empty cabins? What per cent?

 

I always heard that the ship costs remain the same regardless of how many folks are onboard -- food orders don't change from week to week and the crew costs remain the same. With people spending at least some money onboard it just doesn't make business sense to let cabins remain empty.

 

FYI -- just got one of the best rates I have ever had for a solo for 2 cruises in May. So much for no discounts after March.

 

Just my 2 cents:) Katherine

 

These are my thoughts, exactly. I think the only thing this would do is cause the costs for everything else on board to go up. They have to make money, and if they're not sailing with a full ship, they have to make up the difference somewhere. The empty cabins won't be buying alcohol, booking ship excursions, or going to the specialty restaurants. Just my thoughts...

Edited April 21, 2015 by ciera123

[American Bear]

This past weekend I watched a show on CNBC called Titans at the Tables. It looks like the episode I watched can be seen online here:

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-03-27/titans-at-the-table-cruising-the-high-seas-03-26-

 

(not sure how long this link will work)

 

In any event, they talked to the CEOs of Carnival and Royal and both talked about pricing over the last few years. Apparently, both have been heavily discounting because of "negative incidents" affecting cruise sales. (Costa sinking, Poop Cruise, Noro stories, etc.) However, both feel that they the industry has rebounded enough that the heavy discounting is going to be going away. This was especially true with Royal. Fain commented that they were willing to sail with some empty cabins to hold desired pricing.

 

Bottom line: Prices are going up in the future.

 

Watch the show for yourselves. :)

 

 

They won't sail with empty cabins very often.

Its all nonsense.

More cabins will be added to the Casino Club for low priced cruises(fees and taxes only).

Empty cabins don't spend money on drinks, excursions, and specialty restaurants.

[RocketMan275]

I think the last minute discounts are an incentive for individuals to book a cruise.

I have taken three cruises in the past year and at least two of them were booked within 4 weeks of the sail date.

 

I am retired and like to be able to decide at the last minute and go! As far as on-board spending goes, on last month's cruise, we did two dinners at Chops and three RC excursions so the no spending on board doesn't necessarily fit here.

 

I do think if RC succeeds in having cruisers purchase the expensive drink packages, they may not need to fill the ships. The few will be paying the big bucks! It will just help my stock - even if I am not sailing!

 

I wasn't implying that all who book last minute do not spend on-board. Like all things involving people, there are tendencies and probabilities. I suspect RCI has done their work and they know exactly how much revenue, on average, a booking will bring in as a function of the class of cabin booked and when it was booked. They can also break that down by age, gender, etc. I believe the idea that sailing with empty cabins costs the cruise lines money is not necessarily valid. I think it's more wishful thinking by those who want to see deeply discounted cabins than it is a fact.

 

The real issue is that the cruising industry is coming out of slump when cruises were hard to sell because of incidents like the 'poop' cruise and the poor economy. It's only to be expected to see prices firm up and even rise. Book your cruise now, it will only be more expensive in the future.

 

Then there is another change. Cruisers have become accustomed to waiting till late to book the least expensive cruises. We could be entering a phase where the cheapest way to cruise for the majority is too book early. Cruisers will complain but have to adapt.

[American Bear]

Actually, there are many folks who are more concerned about paying the same rate as others than they are about getting a better rate.

 

"I like this," Cruise Critic member marci22 wrote on the Royal Caribbean forum. "You won't feel like an idiot for paying more for a similar cabin that gets discounted after final [payment date], and the ship won't be as crowded."

 

That comment reflects many viewpoints. Studies have shown many are attracted to 'no haggle pricing' because they know they will not find out that their neighbor paid less for their purchase than they did. Read an article where many reported that they would like a law requiring all sellers to sell at the same price even if it meant they would have to pay more. Said they didn't like looking for bargains and liked just buying something know they got the best available price.

 

BTW, I like bargain shopping. My buddy was telling me how great no haggle auto pricing was since he knew that the sales price would be what it was on the window sticker. Told him, he could buy any car on any lot for sticker price. I don't think he understood.

 

 

Agree with you, but would add this.

Are there enough of these types of buyers out there to keep a fleet of 4000, 5000, and up passenger ships full?

I don't think so, and I think its all smoke and mirrors!

[American Bear]

I wasn't implying that all who book last minute do not spend on-board. Like all things involving people, there are tendencies and probabilities. I suspect RCI has done their work and they know exactly how much revenue, on average, a booking will bring in as a function of the class of cabin booked and when it was booked. They can also break that down by age, gender, etc. I believe the idea that sailing with empty cabins costs the cruise lines money is not necessarily valid. I think it's more wishful thinking by those who want to see deeply discounted cabins than it is a fact.

 

The real issue is that the cruising industry is coming out of slump when cruises were hard to sell because of incidents like the 'poop' cruise and the poor economy. It's only to be expected to see prices firm up and even rise. Book your cruise now, it will only be more expensive in the future.

 

Then there is another change. Cruisers have become accustomed to waiting till late to book the least expensive cruises. We could be entering a phase where the cheapest way to cruise for the majority is too book early. Cruisers will complain but have to adapt.

 

 

 

I think there is something else to add, competition!

Competition from more ships, that carry more passengers.

And that competition brings prices down!:D

Of course you may have to go where the sales are!:D

 

MSC is bringing a new Seaside Class ship to Miami in 2017.

NCL is bringing its new Escape to Miami in 2016.

Carnival is bringing its new Vista class ship to Miami in 2016.

And RCL is adding a second ship, the Navigator to Miami in 2016.

[klingoncruiser]

I think i have it now, but did not get that from the article I read. I understand no discounting until perhaps just before the cruise to fill some rooms. However the trash talk from the CEO about sailing empty is just that. Empty room means NO tips for the steward, no tips for Main dining people and a lot of others. No donations in the Casino, ect.

 

I also will do some spending on the ship, indeed the cheaper last minute prices make it easier for me to spend some extra.

 

I guess we will all see.

[Setting sail for fun]

I don't think I'll just have to adjust and start booking early!

 

I have only booked one cruise early (6 mos ahead) out of 19. And I think we paid full price for that one (except for the C&A balcony discount).

 

Life is full of choices, if I don't find what I am looking for with Royal, I will just make another choice. Or not cruise at all. No worries.

 

And there are always incidents in the Cruise Industry, the ship we just sailed on last month had Noro their next cruise. So there is always something.....

[7leagueboots]

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news/news-headlines/royal-caribbeans-fain-pledges-end-to-last-minute-discounting.html

 

Too bad...Princess still does it and there are some fantastic values if you can travel last minute. I guess they are prepared to sail with some open cabins.

[DesertCard]

We have to book 9-12 mo. in advance in most cases. We have a D-1 balcony booked for 1708.93 on Royal. It is now on sale for 2472.69. Carnival leaves two days later same schedule but a jr. suite for 2060.72. This will be my last Royal cruise as we have to budget our cruises as we are retired.

So long Royal you have priced your selves out of the market.

[Catcat222]

Doesn't matter to us. They can do what they want, and money is on my side.

 

We can't decide things that far out anyway. Life is so ever changing daily that we can't book 9 months ahead, and neither do I want to. I am more a spontaneous person.

 

We booked not because of "deals" or "big discounts", but book what we like and what we can afford. We have control over our own money, and to decide whether to spend it on a cruise or elsewhere. If we find the cruise fare too high or not to our liking, no big deal, we travel elsewhere just as happy! :)

[Catcat222]

Just sail the ships to China and get big bucks from them in the casino. Then, they don't need to head scratch to squeeze a few more bucks from us.

[LuvBNatC]

Mr. Fain would do his marketing department a big favor by closing his cakehole. Talking about passengers and their "used car salesman mentality" as if we're all rubes isn't the way to attract new business or keep the repeaters coming back.

 

And boasting that he'd rather see his ships sail with empty cabins is just horse hockey. All it would take for RCCL to do a 180 on this attitude is for some news outlet to cover RCCL's resulting "Ghost Fleet."

 

A helicopter flyover could show other lines' ships setting sail with upper decks full of partying passengers dancing and waving colorful fou-fou drinks, and then a comparatively empty RCCL ship, with a few passengers standing quietly at the railings, empty-handed.

 

The report closes with: "Since Royal Caribbean instituted its policy of charging top dollar for all its ships and just about everything -- while not upgrading its product to be considered a premium line -- Carnival, Norwegian, and MSC report their fleets' bookings have increased to capacity."

 

And maybe Mr. Fain would consider this new marketing slogan:

 

When you're Loyal to Royal, you may not be able to afford the drinks, but you'll have the ship all to yourself!

 

:D

[caribbean sailor]

I remember reading a few years back the Mr. Fain would rather sail the ships half empty than to do deep discounts. I think this was when the economy was down.

 

Now that they think the economy is on an upturn, they are trying to raise prices any way they can. The higher fares they've already been charging lately are to help offset the cost of the empty staterooms. That is, if the last minute bookers are only looking for deep discounts and decide not to book at full fare.

 

The elimination of discounts last minute being for North America only. All Royal Caribbean cruises in North America embark and/or disembark from the United States.

 

In the short term, less people on board a ship may seem like a good idea in terms of less people in public areas. However, it will also mean less crew. In the event they happen to sell out a cruise for a particular sailing, there will not be enough crew on board to deliver the WOW or Gold Anchor Service or whatever you want to call an excellent cruise vacation.

 

In the long term, when the new ports in China are built and open for business, Royal Caribbean will use the declining ticket sales as their "proof" that demand is down in North America and use it as an excuse to redeploy ships from U.S. ports to the China market. They already have 5 ships going to China, who seem to be willing and able to pay higher prices to go on a cruise. This would mean less capacity from U.S. ports, and even higher prices in the future.

 

 

Good i say send all their over priced ships to China.Mr Fain you may find that you may become a used ship salesman,if you think your loyal repeat customer will pay any price to sail on Royal Caribbean ships.There are other ways to vacation such as a land resort.Also there are other cruise lines. :eek: :p

[Big_G]

 

The report closes with: "Since Royal Caribbean instituted its policy of charging top dollar for all its ships and just about everything -- while not upgrading its product to be considered a premium line -- Carnival, Norwegian, and MSC report their fleets' bookings have increased to capacity."

 

:D

 

A rising tide lifts all boats. Wait and see. Pun intended. ;)

[Stags14]

This isn't really a wise business decision, they are taking themselves out of the market for last minute vacationers. It's a lifestyle that determines when you book, not the price. Otherwise, all customers would book last minute... the move is to drive up prices and for nothing else.

 

Personally, I enjoy camping/vacationing close to home just as much as cruising so if they want to price me out of the market, good riddance.

[Setting sail for fun]

Too bad...Princess still does it and there are some fantastic values if you can travel last minute. I guess they are prepared to sail with some open cabins.

 

Thanks for sharing the news article. We will see how this turns out. I do not see how the recent decisions can help the brand unless people are just happy to pay more.

[richstowe]

Actually, there are many folks who are more concerned about paying the same rate as others than they are about getting a better rate.

 

"I like this," Cruise Critic member marci22 wrote on the Royal Caribbean forum. "You won't feel like an idiot for paying more for a similar cabin that gets discounted after final [payment date], and the ship won't be as crowded."

 

That comment reflects many viewpoints. Studies have shown many are attracted to 'no haggle pricing' because they know they will not find out that their neighbor paid less for their purchase than they did. Read an article where many reported that they would like a law requiring all sellers to sell at the same price even if it meant they would have to pay more. Said they didn't like looking for bargains and liked just buying something know they got the best available price.

 

BTW, I like bargain shopping. My buddy was telling me how great no haggle auto pricing was since he knew that the sales price would be what it was on the window sticker. Told him, he could buy any car on any lot for sticker price. I don't think he understood.

While there are those who like a "no haggle" policy (which is really a no discount policy), I'm not sure most

feel this way . Turning back to cruise pricing , I can't understand why it annoys some

so much when others get a lower price for taking the risk of paying a higher amount or not being able

to book the cabin they wish.

 

From a business point of view , I think sailing with a reasonable amount of empty cabins

makes sense if it weans some passengers off expecting last minute deal .

What that reasonable amount is may be hard to figure out.

"Overall, Cruise Critic readers are pleased with Fain's announcement."

 

Um, who are you trying to kid? The people displeased with the announcement vastly outnumber those pleased by a vast majority. In fact, I really have yet to see many comments supporting that decision at all. RCCL has jacked up prices for 2016 sailings way up compared to previous years and now are saying prices wont be coming down in the future. Who exactly likes this?

Exactly . It seems CC is trying to curry favour with the big boys Edited April 21, 2015 by richstowe

[orville99]

This would be a really interesting discussion if RCL (or the industry as a whole) actually had pricing power - which it lacks. There are five main factors of competition that shift pricing power to the buyers (customers) of cruises (according to MarketLine):

 

Buyer Independence - rated very high

Low Switching Cost - rated high

High Fixed Cost - rated high

Availability of a wide range of substitutes - rated high

Intensity of Competition - rated high

 

Bottom line, the statement was nothing more than an olive branch thrown at shareholders and analysts to soften the blow of the real message that RCL would miss (underperform) its earnings targets this year by a wide margin.

 

In the immortal words of the great and powerful Oz, "don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain".

Edited April 21, 2015 by orville99

[grandgeezer]

The cruise lines can sell any of their products, cruise, drinks, specialty dining, etc., at any price they think the market will bear. We, as consumers, have the right not to pay their price and cutback on our spending, or not go at all. We have started the first option, and leaning towards not going at all.

One point on sailing with a bunch of empty cabins one week and full the next, how do they manage their manpower? It's not like a land business where they can just call someone up and say we don't need you this week, but we do the next.