Silhouette Trip Report (Yes, that Israel one!) October 2015 (Very Long)

[compman9]

I probably shouldn't respond, but here goes.

 

I think your review is relatively balanced and fair, but think you miss some contradiction you make yourself. I also think you bring in a number of straw man arguments comparing safety in the U.S. to that of Israel, but those I will not comment on. I will however illustrate a few contradictions in your thinking.

 

Forget the passenger safety question for a moment. If this is how you see Celebrity ("corporate behemoth that work with balance sheets and realism"), and presumably, with all your experience you saw them like this in advance, wouldn't why would you rely on them to get you to a specific itinerary? Did you just come to the realization about Celebrity or was this an opinion you previously held? Furthermore if they work in "realism" why wasn't this decision a realistic one with regards to safety?

 

When you rely on weather, you're definitely going to be disappointed. The driest desert on earth is blooming with flowers from all the rain.

 

So even if they knew about cancelling Israel, or even were fairly sure, not making an announcement until they had a full replacement itinerary in place seems reasonable, if only a little bit reasonable. and of course, "well in advance" is relative and not a measure of time. Of course, if we take your previous view of Celebrity "they are a corporate behemoth that work with balance sheets and realism" OF COURSE their goal is to maximize profit, reduce risk (financial, PR, etc). NONE of this should be of any surprise to you and you should be prepared to deal with this on all of your upcoming cruises to new places.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

 

Hi Jenna

 

Thank you for your comments, but I am not quite sure of some of the things you are saying.

 

I do get a few things though. Firstly, the comparison with US gun crime while glib, is accurate. It is a simple fact that you are more likely to die on a US college campus than in any other education campus anywhere else in the world, but this does not deter people from sending their children to school in the US.

My comment was a direct expression of my dissatisfaction with Celebrity's view of what is safe and what is not. If you share that view, as I said in my article, that is your opinion - I merely wrote facts.

 

As for my views on 'corporate behemoths', I am afraid I do not trust any multi-million dollar empire with my best interests. That does not mean I will not use their products.

 

Your opinion on weather is noted, but not relevant. Partly because Israel should have been hot at this time of year. We thought it would be hot at this time of year. It was hot at this time of year. And, if it wasn't, however much we wanted a hot cruise, we are aware of the power of the weather gods.

What we did know however, was the weather in the Greek Isles was likely to be poor, and it was.

 

I hope that helps

[compman9]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OPs comments. We were also on this cruise and were given a product we did not buy and pay for. Some advance notice would have been very much appreciated along with some options. A little OBC to help us buy internet time to research the new ports would have been a lovely gesture. There were many things they COULD have done to ease the frustration of the majority of the passengers, but they chose to do nothing. Not one thing. Hard to magine they wouldn't have wanted to generate at least a little good will.

 

On the bright side, I did discover that Rhodes is a lovely place, since I am still here! My husband suffered a heart attack and we were taken off the ship and he spent the next eight days in the hospital. At the hotel with me now, relaxing and recuperating. An interesting hiccup to add to our travel journals.

 

I was sitting in Cafe Al Bacio when your husband was taken into the ambulance. When he raised his head we were relieved. It is always a worrying sign.

 

Awfully pleased he is doing well and you are enjoying your extended stay in Rhodes, considering the circumstances. And I very much hope you both have a safe trip home

[compman9]

There are always lessons to be learned from any situation. The take away from all of this IMHO is that you should NEVER book a bucket list destination on a cruise ship -- to much can and does happen -- bad weather, ship problems, etc. Booking a trip into an area known for it's volatility only adds to it being a gamble.

 

My visit to Israel was a once in a lifetime trip - I recommend booking a land based trip - there are many tour companies that do an excellent job and provide wonderful security - although there are always risks.

 

One thing regarding the discussion of X and the decisions that lead to all of this. The OP talks about passenger safety and signing waivers but I'd ask what about the safety of the crew - and their being potentially put at risk? What about the ship itself?

 

I think that there are many complicated issues that lead to X's decision making that will never come to light. I applaud the OP for trying to make the best of a very disappointing situation.

 

 

 

Hi Jane

 

I think that is good advice. Well, sort of good advice. But if you can't book a bucket list trip on a cruise, you should probably cancel doing it on a plane because they crash, and as for a car, well, definitely don't use a car for a bucket list trip! Caution, yes, but no more or less than with any life decision.

 

With regard to the waiver suggestion. This was if we had chosen to go ashore. There would be no reason for staff to sign a waiver if they were not permitted to go ashore. I would have happily absolved Celebrity of any responsibility for my welfare had I left the ship in the perfectly safe ports of Ashdod or Haifa. I hope that explains it better

[chemmo]

I was not considering some basic support as an 'admission of guilt' more as good customer relations.

 

I do understand that sometimes difficult decisions need to be made by cruise lines and tour companies. Once those decisions have been made Celebrity's role then should be to help their guests adjust to the new itinerary. Where possible provide practical support to adjust plans and to try to make the best of an unplanned schedule.

[compman9]

Truly a disappointing situation. Whereas, I completely support X's decision to cancel the Israel stops, I believe the issue lies in what passengers paid for the cruise. This was wasn't a Caribbean cruise where for some reason the ship couldn't call on St. Maarten and instead went to St. Kitts. This cruise was supposed to go to Israel and instead went to the Greek Isles at the end of October. A Greek Isles cruise at this time of year should have been discounted cruise, where a cruise to Israel, a premium rate is paid. I think X would be wise to give some type of compensation due to this. I know they're under no obligation legally to do so. I just think it would make for good customer relations. Actually, they should have issued onboard credits due to the last minute changes and most passengers would have been mostly satisfied. Just my opinion.

 

I am sure there are a lot more people that were not on the cruise that agreed with Celebrity's decision than had actually paid for the cruise, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

With regard to your suggestion that if Celebrity had made a concession most would have been satisfied, well you are bang on here. Most of the people I spoke to on the ship were horrified that Celebrity offered no apology, explanation or anything. A small gesture of even internet minutes so people could arrange things for the alternative ports would have been good enough for some.

 

However, I believe Celebrity knew they were walking a fine line and any admission of guilt, which an offer of compensation would have been, would open a can of worms for them.

[compman9]

I agree with you, and was wondering how to say, what you put so well. I understand OP frustration and disappointment, but this harping on how THEY were willing to sign waivers. Unless every single other passenger & crew member was willing to sign a waiver, that was never going to be an option. On the HAL board right now there is an active thread of a passenger that just won a 21 MILLION dollar lawsuit for an incident aboard a HAL ship. I'm sure the HAL lawyers argued that the contract protected HAL to no avail. You can't really expect a corporation to risk having even one person get hurt.

 

The OP herself is stating that they are going to see what legal recourse they have. Can anyone be surprised in today's litigations society that a corporation will take the least risky route?

 

Sorry, I obviously didn't explain myself properly. My waiver suggestion was for anyone going ashore in Israel from the safe and heavily guarded ports. This would not apply to staff, or passengers who would prefer to stay on the ship.

 

I appreciate that you don't believe that someone should receive $21m because they now have brain damage because of corporate negligence, but that is your opinion. I do however agree with your view - I do believe Celebrity took the decision based on advice from their legal department. I am grateful that in Europe consumers have more rights than in the US, where corporations enjoy more protection

[compman9]

Just curious if OP is angry/disappointed enough to cancel the upcoming X cruises listed on the OPs post page...

 

depriving them of future business might make a point and shifting to a line that might be more disclosing might also be a good move, but I bet they are all the same!

 

Israel and Istanbul not guarantee ports...as previously debated at length on other threads!

 

I actually booked the upcoming cruises while on the ship. I had hoped that I had explained my pragmatism, but suffice it to say, I enjoy the product Celebrity Cruises provide me. I also like my Lexus, but it doesn't mean I won't buy a BMW in the future.

[compman9]

I was not considering some basic support as an 'admission of guilt' more as good customer relations.

 

I do understand that sometimes difficult decisions need to be made by cruise lines and tour companies. Once those decisions have been made Celebrity's role then should be to help their guests adjust to the new itinerary. Where possible provide practical support to adjust plans and to try to make the best of an unplanned schedule.

 

I obviously could not agree more, but this was not an 'ordinary' situation. I think once they had made their decision they needed to back it wholeheartedly and treat it just like a missed port for bad weather.

 

Anything that could be misconstrued as an out of the ordinary decision could lead to the legal battles they may face anyway.

I would be surprised if the 350 plus bible group that left at Athens to go to Israel do not make some sort of claim.

[Rosethorn40]

Sorry, I obviously didn't explain myself properly. My waiver suggestion was for anyone going ashore in Israel from the safe and heavily guarded ports. This would not apply to staff, or passengers who would prefer to stay on the ship.

 

I appreciate that you don't believe that someone should receive $21m because they now have brain damage because of corporate negligence, but that is your opinion. I do however agree with your view - I do believe Celebrity took the decision based on advice from their legal department. I am grateful that in Europe consumers have more rights than in the US, where corporations enjoy more protection

 

I never wrote that I didn't believe that the man hurt aboard the HAL ship wasn't due some compensation for his injury. Based on the tiny scrap of information I have, I believe it was due to a malfunction on a sliding door, hence HAL should be held responsible. I also have no idea how severe his injury was, and any lasting, permanent damage he has. I do think 21 million is excessive, as I think 2.65 million for spilling a cup of coffee on yourself is too much, but that's way off topic.

 

I do understand that you paid for a Holy Land cruise, which tend to be more expensive than a Greek Island cruise, which is what you got. I also agree that it would be nice if Celebrity offered you something in the way of customer goodwill. What are you looking for? I spent years in customer service. Whenever someone wanted to know "What are you going to give me for (Insert compliant)" My response was always "What do you want?"

 

So, what do you want? When you write your letter to Celebrity be very clear in what you think is fair compensation, or you will find yourself at best with $100 OBC on your next cruise. I would also suggest not to make a "Scorch Earth" demand, such as "Full Refund, plus reimbursement of all my travel expenses or I'll never sail with Celebrity again", or "I'll tell everyone I know, and write of my experience on every social media page I can find." If nothing reasonable will make you happy, then you will get nothing.

[Velvetwater]

I have commented on your opinions in red below. This was an interesting post to me as relatives had a similar situation and area way back in the noughties. They were miffed but as they were never to be regular cruisers they enjoyed the experience as a whole. Also, before I start I will state I am not a Celebrity cheerleader in the slightest (see my posts) and I am also from the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, the question is - was it for passenger safety?

This is the key issue here and facts are often confused with opinion, but one thing is without debate: If a Celebrity Cruise passenger was hurt during a trip to shore, anywhere; it would be major news. If it was during a major news event, which the Israeli troubles can be described as, it could cause them irreparable damage.

It would be nice to imagine that it was an incredible act of altruism on the part of Celebrity, but they are not a Mom and Pop store on the corner that know which brand of cereal you like, they are a corporate behemoth that work with balance sheets and realism.

I know this will come as a great disappointment to the reading cheerleaders (they will be the ones that will add negative comments below this report), but I see Celebrity as nothing more than a vacation provider, not an entity that I owe loyalty to because I ordinarily enjoy those vacations.

 

Celebrity were probably acting on pressure and worry of a large percentage of their guests. We see so many posts on this forum worrying about ports that indeed they acted appropriately. However, with the conflict going on and not particularly changing a great deal then Celebrity should not have offered this cruise.

 

 

1. 11,000 people have been killed in gun related incidents alone in the USA this year. Yet, this is deemed a safe country to visit by all major cruise lines.

2. More tourists have been killed in the USA this year than in Israel. Indeed, the only non-Jew or Palestinian killed in Israel this year was an Eritrean man who was a suspect in an attack.

3. Neither the US or UK governments have issued blanket advisories against travel to Israel.

4. Instead they have offered advisories regarding the areas affected. No ship tours go to the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

5. Tour professionals in all countries are fully versed in how to keep their clients safe. I wanted to add this here because we were in touch with a private tour company that was keeping us updated the two weeks prior to the trip. They said they knew where to avoid and explained why we had little to worry about.

6. Ashdod and Haifa are well protected international ports that have not experienced violence during the recent troubles. Anyone that felt unsafe could have stayed on the ship and Celebrity would have therefore fulfilled their obligations.

7. I could add more facts here, but I will wind up with the fact that Seabourn felt it perfectly safe to visit during the same week as the Silhouette was supposed to visit. I believe MSC are also visiting this week but this is unconfirmed.

See my above answer. It seems Celebrity would have upset people regardless. Its also important to note that some media coverage of Israel can be inaccurate in the sense that yes it is safer than it may appear but also attacks on tourists/certain groups are not covered by mainstream media.

 

It also leads to the subject of the alternative ports.

But not before an issue that was not considered at any time. As a UK resident, I am not scheduled to see or feel heat and sunshine for the next half a year – we booked this trip for two reasons:

1. It went to Israel

2. It would be 30 degrees hot for at least half the trip

 

Med weather in these months has no guarantee of even when in the South, your ports (Particularly Malta) would have given you a great deal of this if luck was involved. I think also think cruising in risk countries is very different to visiting them and just because you have visited a 'risky port' before it doesnt mean you will be safe in the next.

 

Before moving on to the Trip Report, there are additional related issues that should be remembered.

1. Many people had non-refundable overnight accommodation booked in Israel.

2. Many had non refundable trips and travel arrangements.

3. In the UK, parents can be fined for taking their children out of school during term time. There were families on-board that did just that.

4. Many were on a personal pilgrimage. This was not a ‘normal’ cruise.

5. Many were visiting family and friends etc.,

6. Those comparing this to missing Roatan on a Caribbean cruise because the sea was a bit choppy are simply on the wrong page.

 

It is unfortunate for those that made arrangements, especially for those with special reasons and losing money because of it. However I see that you are an experienced cruiser and you should know as well as anybody the nature of the beast is that you book agreeing to the fact ports may be changed and cancelled. Comparing you experience to those missing Carribean ports is a little abrupt as people from our end of the pond May want to visit certain islands and a cancelled Carribean port would be just as devastating when you have paid all that money to fly there. As a UK teacher, your comment about families being fined for taking their kids out of school is just tough as they shouldn't be doing that anyway (my opinions on that are for another topic though).

 

1. In Celebrity’s Passenger Bill of Rights it does not say anything about changing a whole cruise, but it does say, “The right to timely information updates as to any adjustments in the itinerary of the ship in the event of a mechanical failure or emergency, as well as timely updates of the status of efforts to address mechanical failures.” We have already learned that “timely information” was deliberately withheld.

2. According to UK Law, it is possible that because changes were made to my itinerary before departure then regulation 12 and 13 of the Package Travel Regulations may apply. According to the law, “If the changes are significant and you are no longer happy with your cruise - for example you're booked on a Mediterranean cruise and it can no longer travel around the Mediterranean - you have three options. You can either: Request a refund, Request a substitute package of equal or greater value, Request a substitute package of lower value with a price adjustment, Depending on the circumstances of the changes you may also be able to claim compensation.” As we were told in the check-in line, I think this may count and I will pursue this next week.

3. EU Law is very similar, and I will write to the relevant people next week, including my European Member of Parliament.

4. My personal cruise does however exist in a grey area. Although a UK citizen, I use a US Travel Agent, so I will await further information about where I stand because of this.

5. I am not aware of US Consumer Rights regarding travel, if there are any, so if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.

 

My relatives researched options (My cousin is a lawyer) and found there was little they could do as a) The change at any time clause in the cruise contract b)a majority of the cruise was the same c) the line acted in the best interests of its passengers d) US/overseas company rights made things sticky. However I do agree that you passengers should have got something as a chunk of the cruise was completely different. Although I do feel like due to the Israel cancellation whatever happened on your cruise you would have been displeased as things like that do put a dampener on things. I hope your future cruises are happier.

 

(sorry in advance for any types, CC will not let me edit)

[richstowe]

OP , I read your late lamented thread with rapt attention . I am glad you returned to give us a post cruise summation . That previous thread had all sorts of interesting posts such as the idea that Celebrity was actually trying to save your life :rolleyes: but it is undoubtedly true that they really had no choice but to eliminate the Israeli stops .

 

Velvetwater is correct that "Celebrity were probably acting on pressure and worry of a large percentage of their guests " or if not the guests then the loved ones of those guests .

 

In this situation an inconsequential (to them) amount of OBC would have made a difference in convincing you that they gave a darn about your feelings . Foolish on their part .

 

Glad that you are honest enough to state that you will continue to cruise Celebrity even though you were left with a bad taste after this situation .

Edited November 2, 2015 by richstowe

[cruiseerf]

Sorry your trip did not live up to your expectations. I have had several trips which did not live up to mine......When you travel, you accept the unexpected and you just have to go with it, which it appears you did.

 

Some Suggestions.....For bucket list trips, fly right to your destination. It is the easiest way to avoid things like this going wrong.

 

Celebrity did what they did probably for the good of the passengers And the safety of their ship. Some people said Seabourn or Silversea were still docking there.....They are MUCH smaller ships and would not attract the possible attention a large ship attack would......Big ships make big targets, never forget that. Its why celebrity cancelled many overnights in Istanbul this year....

 

When we book our cruises, we hope for the best and make the best of what comes. We once booked a December Med cruise which was our greatest error and we hit hurricane force winds for 11 days and were unable to dock anywhere....It happens.....the cruiseship did nothing for us. We once went to French Polynesia on a world cruise portion during rainy season....It poured down rain for 10 of our 11 day cruise..Rainy season was RAINY..We never saw Bora Bora till we flew there years later....We were cancelled out of a holyland cruise a few years ago....we didn't cancel, we went with it. Why let it ruin our holiday? We did another one the next year and saw the Tourist nightmare that Jerusalem has become....with follow the umbrella tourists everywhere jockying for space.....

 

Cruising is an adventure. I am glad you didn't let this sour your whole cruising schedule. Somethings are just out of our hands.

 

I am sure your next cruise will be far more to your liking....Your due some good cruising Karma.

 

Safe Sails!

[Karynanne]

Sorry your trip did not live up to your expectations. I have had several trips which did not live up to mine......When you travel, you accept the unexpected and you just have to go with it, which it appears you did.

 

 

 

Some Suggestions.....For bucket list trips, fly right to your destination. It is the easiest way to avoid things like this going wrong.

 

 

 

Celebrity did what they did probably for the good of the passengers And the safety of their ship. Some people said Seabourn or Silversea were still docking there.....They are MUCH smaller ships and would not attract the possible attention a large ship attack would......Big ships make big targets, never forget that. Its why celebrity cancelled many overnights in Istanbul this year....

 

 

 

When we book our cruises, we hope for the best and make the best of what comes. We once booked a December Med cruise which was our greatest error and we hit hurricane force winds for 11 days and were unable to dock anywhere....It happens.....the cruiseship did nothing for us. We once went to French Polynesia on a world cruise portion during rainy season....It poured down rain for 10 of our 11 day cruise..Rainy season was RAINY..We never saw Bora Bora till we flew there years later....We were cancelled out of a holyland cruise a few years ago....we didn't cancel, we went with it. Why let it ruin our holiday? We did another one the next year and saw the Tourist nightmare that Jerusalem has become....with follow the umbrella tourists everywhere jockying for space.....

 

 

 

Cruising is an adventure. I am glad you didn't let this sour your whole cruising schedule. Somethings are just out of our hands.

 

 

 

I am sure your next cruise will be far more to your liking....Your due some good cruising Karma.

 

 

 

Safe Sails!

 

 

Well said...

[CathyCruises]

I was sitting in Cafe Al Bacio when your husband was taken into the ambulance. When he raised his head we were relieved. It is always a worrying sign.

 

Awfully pleased he is doing well and you are enjoying your extended stay in Rhodes, considering the circumstances. And I very much hope you both have a safe trip home

 

Thank you. It's been an interesting journey right from the start. He's doing really well and enjoying this beautiful island. I can certainly see why so many people vacation here. Who knew??

[florisdekort]

Sorry your trip did not live up to your expectations. I have had several trips which did not live up to mine......When you travel, you accept the unexpected and you just have to go with it, which it appears you did.

 

 

 

Some Suggestions.....For bucket list trips, fly right to your destination. It is the easiest way to avoid things like this going wrong.

 

 

 

Celebrity did what they did probably for the good of the passengers And the safety of their ship. Some people said Seabourn or Silversea were still docking there.....They are MUCH smaller ships and would not attract the possible attention a large ship attack would......Big ships make big targets, never forget that. Its why celebrity cancelled many overnights in Istanbul this year....

 

 

 

When we book our cruises, we hope for the best and make the best of what comes. We once booked a December Med cruise which was our greatest error and we hit hurricane force winds for 11 days and were unable to dock anywhere....It happens.....the cruiseship did nothing for us. We once went to French Polynesia on a world cruise portion during rainy season....It poured down rain for 10 of our 11 day cruise..Rainy season was RAINY..We never saw Bora Bora till we flew there years later....We were cancelled out of a holyland cruise a few years ago....we didn't cancel, we went with it. Why let it ruin our holiday? We did another one the next year and saw the Tourist nightmare that Jerusalem has become....with follow the umbrella tourists everywhere jockying for space.....

 

 

 

Cruising is an adventure. I am glad you didn't let this sour your whole cruising schedule. Somethings are just out of our hands.

 

 

 

I am sure your next cruise will be far more to your liking....Your due some good cruising Karma.

 

 

 

Safe Sails!

 

 

Your examples are completely irrelevant to the Ops situation. There is zero resemblance between bad weather and a cruise line canceling ports for which passengers paid a >50% premium and then not sharing this news until the very last minute despite knowing it much sooner.

[compman9]

I do understand that you paid for a Holy Land cruise, which tend to be more expensive than a Greek Island cruise, which is what you got. I also agree that it would be nice if Celebrity offered you something in the way of customer goodwill. What are you looking for? I spent years in customer service. Whenever someone wanted to know "What are you going to give me for (Insert compliant)" My response was always "What do you want?"

 

So, what do you want? When you write your letter to Celebrity be very clear in what you think is fair compensation, or you will find yourself at best with $100 OBC on your next cruise. I would also suggest not to make a "Scorch Earth" demand, such as "Full Refund, plus reimbursement of all my travel expenses or I'll never sail with Celebrity again", or "I'll tell everyone I know, and write of my experience on every social media page I can find." If nothing reasonable will make you happy, then you will get nothing.

 

That is really good advice. Thank you.

 

I had not assessed what I thought fair compensation would be, but reflecting upon that now, I would say it has altered as time has gone on.

 

When I was told, literally minutes before leaving for the airport, I would have wanted the full costs including flights and hotel reservations so that I could find an alternative at the last minute

 

Once I had boarded, seen the disappointment of all the passengers and the less than agreeable response of Celebrity to that disappointment, I would say, anything, even an hour's worth of internet to research the alternative ports, may have been acceptable

 

Now I have returned, I am able to be more reflective and work out what I missed out on, but even this has three aspects to it.

1. I am still appalled by Celebrity's clear intention of covering their backs and deliberately providing consumers with a far inferior product with no returns policy. But as I said, I have two choices here, either boycott them or accept that this is just what large corporations do, and accept it. I have already chosen to go with the latter. After all, I despise Rupert Murdoch, but without his television company, my TV entertainment would be far worse.

2. The choice of replacement ports. This is a judgement call. I do believe they should have gone to Egypt or maybe Croatia to add a bit more interest, but I do not believe the decision to turn it into a Greek Island cruise was a bad one, just because I didn't like it.

3. The third and most important aspect was they key reason for booking - Israel. No-one booked this cruise for any other reason than its visit there. If I believed my safety was an issue I would let it go immediately and move on, but instead, I disagree wholeheartedly with the reasons for the decision (my Trip Report details why), so I therefore believe they should replace that experience adequately.

 

So, on reflection, and I will approach Celebrity using your advice, I believe a return economy flight to Tel Aviv would be fair. I wouldn't expect them to provide hotel accommodation, even though some might. The cost from the UK would be around $300.

 

NB: The funny thing is, if they had provided that to me by way of on-board credit they would have got it back within half an hour in their casino :o

[compman9]

OP , I read your late lamented thread with rapt attention . I am glad you returned to give us a post cruise summation . That previous thread had all sorts of interesting posts such as the idea that Celebrity was actually trying to save your life :rolleyes: but it is undoubtedly true that they really had no choice but to eliminate the Israeli stops .

 

Velvetwater is correct that "Celebrity were probably acting on pressure and worry of a large percentage of their guests " or if not the guests then the loved ones of those guests .

 

In this situation an inconsequential (to them) amount of OBC would have made a difference in convincing you that they gave a darn about your feelings . Foolish on their part .

 

Glad that you are honest enough to state that you will continue to cruise Celebrity even though you were left with a bad taste after this situation .

 

I can't believe you were not on this cruise, I thought the whole population of Montreal was on there :D

 

I appreciate your comments, and I agree that Celebrity felt they had no choice but to cancel their Israeli stops to protect their reputation. I do not believe it was for passenger safety as I detailed in my report, and I did not speak to anyone on the trip that had expressed concerns to Celebrity about the ports.

 

I also believe most would have been appeased by a letter of apology in the cabin on arrival (hand signed, not photocopied), and some on-board credit

[woodards]

To the OP, read your post with interest and could have written a very similar post following our cruise in August on the Reflection with overnight stay in Istanbul(or not as it turned out!). The sad thing is much of what you have written is identical to our situation earlier in the year and Celebrity have handled it similarly. Which leads me to believe this is their standard process!

 

We received the following correspondence from them after we complained.

 

Dear xxx,

 

I'm truly sorry that it has been necessary for us to change the itinerary of your Celebrity Reflection cruise on 31st August.

 

Please be assured that this change has been made to ensure the safety of all of our guests, which is our number one priority. I regret that this change has been advised to you just a few days before your cruise was due to start and for your evident disappointment.

 

Our aim was to provide the UK team information ahead of the communications to enable them to support our guests, clearly from the questions asked you wanted more specific details than we have available, areas of security concerns are understandably highly sensitive and the information provided will not contain the level of detail's you required.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that my team did not handle your query professionally when you called in to our call centre. I have of course follow up with the staff members concerned and made them aware of your feedback and provided them with additional coaching in managing these situations.

 

With reference to your request for compensation and as you're aware, unfortunately compensation is not applicable in this instance as the change has been classified as a minor change. I enclose the definitions of significant and minor change for your information from our terms and conditions:

 

'Significant change: Examples include a change from two days port of calls to two days sailing instead; a change in UK departure airport (excluding changes between local airports) and a change in the time of your outbound flight by more than 12 hours on a 14 night holiday.

 

Minor change: Examples include a change from one port of call to another; a change from one day’s port of call to one days sailing; a change in timing's for any port(s) of call but the ship still calls at all confirmed ports; a change in order of ports that are visited; and a change in the time of your departure or return flight that is less than 12 hours on a 14 night holiday.'

 

As you will see form the above definitions, this change falls into the minor change category.

 

Overall, I'm sorry that this experience has made you question your Loyalty to Celebrity Cruises. Please be assured that we do value your loyalty to our brand over the last 10 years.

 

I do hope that you will still enjoy your cruise with us, our team are looking forward to welcoming onboard on Monday 31st.

 

kind regards

 

For clarity we asked for the delta between the less costly Greece itinerary and the Istanbul itinerary that we had paid for.

Edited November 2, 2015 by woodards

[compman9]

To the OP, read your post with interest and could have written a very similar post following our cruise in August on the Reflection with overnight stay in Istanbul(or not as it turned out!). The sad thing is much of what you have written is identical to our situation earlier in the year and Celebrity have handled it similarly. Which leads me to believe this is their standard process!

 

We received the following correspondence from them after we complained.

 

'Significant change: Examples include a change from two days port of calls to two days sailing instead; a change in UK departure airport (excluding changes between local airports) and a change in the time of your outbound flight by more than 12 hours on a 14 night holiday.

 

For clarity we asked for the delta between the less costly Greece itinerary and the Istanbul itinerary that we had paid for.

 

Thank you for your reply. I cannot say I am surprised that Celebrity's behaviour towards us has not improved since their dealings with your situation - I did the same cruise the year before you before the minor outbreaks of easily avoidable violence that affected your cruise.

 

I have noted the Significant Change aspect, which borderline refers to us - they changed three port stays including an overnight, with an overnight in Athens and two different ports of call.

Although, our cruise was fundamentally changed according to UK and EU package deal rights, so I think I may pursue this route instead

 

Again, I really appreciate your help and I hope you do get to go to Istanbul, it really is worth it

[villauk]

To the OP, read your post with interest and could have written a very similar post following our cruise in August on the Reflection with overnight stay in Istanbul(or not as it turned out!). The sad thing is much of what you have written is identical to our situation earlier in the year and Celebrity have handled it similarly. Which leads me to believe this is their standard process!

 

We received the following correspondence from them after we complained.

 

Dear xxx,

 

I'm truly sorry that it has been necessary for us to change the itinerary of your Celebrity Reflection cruise on 31st August.

 

Please be assured that this change has been made to ensure the safety of all of our guests, which is our number one priority. I regret that this change has been advised to you just a few days before your cruise was due to start and for your evident disappointment.

 

Our aim was to provide the UK team information ahead of the communications to enable them to support our guests, clearly from the questions asked you wanted more specific details than we have available, areas of security concerns are understandably highly sensitive and the information provided will not contain the level of detail's you required.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that my team did not handle your query professionally when you called in to our call centre. I have of course follow up with the staff members concerned and made them aware of your feedback and provided them with additional coaching in managing these situations.

 

With reference to your request for compensation and as you're aware, unfortunately compensation is not applicable in this instance as the change has been classified as a minor change. I enclose the definitions of significant and minor change for your information from our terms and conditions:

 

'Significant change: Examples include a change from two days port of calls to two days sailing instead; a change in UK departure airport (excluding changes between local airports) and a change in the time of your outbound flight by more than 12 hours on a 14 night holiday.

 

Minor change: Examples include a change from one port of call to another; a change from one day’s port of call to one days sailing; a change in timing's for any port(s) of call but the ship still calls at all confirmed ports; a change in order of ports that are visited; and a change in the time of your departure or return flight that is less than 12 hours on a 14 night holiday.'

 

As you will see form the above definitions, this change falls into the minor change category.

 

Overall, I'm sorry that this experience has made you question your Loyalty to Celebrity Cruises. Please be assured that we do value your loyalty to our brand over the last 10 years.

 

I do hope that you will still enjoy your cruise with us, our team are looking forward to welcoming onboard on Monday 31st.

 

kind regards

 

For clarity we asked for the delta between the less costly Greece itinerary and the Istanbul itinerary that we had paid for.

 

 

X were already aware of your situation well before the 31st as we were on the first cruise where the overnights were stopped, that being August 24th. Many did not reach the ship in time on our first day as we actually sailed from Istanbul. X continued to delay sailing time that first evening because there were so many passengers still in transit. Obviously this was due to us only finding out the day before embarkation that the overnight was cancelled, therefore, everyone needed to be on the ship by the following afternoon. Many pax were not informed by X of the change (this was apparent from the roll call posts). Some did have to cancel tours arranged for both days as embarkation was brought forward.

 

On a side note, I have never seen so many pax in tears at Guest Services ever! That first evening was total chaos. Muster drill was practically empty in our section as half the pax were missing (first time ever I got a chair :D).

 

We did have a wonderful cruise, even though it was the dreaded Noro sailing when the epidemic was at its height! We managed to spend one day in Istanbul and thought it was fabulous. So good in fact, we definitely intend to return ;).

 

 

OP, I am shocked that nothing was offered - not even OBC, which as you say, they would have recouped anyway. I expect you read the other thread where it was stated that those that booked in the UK were offered a full refund the night before your cruise began? Some obviously took the offer and booked last minute sailings in the Med. It will be interesting to see if you are able to claim through the UK/EU ruling even though you booked in the US. Please do let us know the outcome if you decide to pursue.

[compman9]

OP, I am shocked that nothing was offered - not even OBC, which as you say, they would have recouped anyway. I expect you read the other thread where it was stated that those that booked in the UK were offered a full refund the night before your cruise began? Some obviously took the offer and booked last minute sailings in the Med. It will be interesting to see if you are able to claim through the UK/EU ruling even though you booked in the US. Please do let us know the outcome if you decide to pursue.

 

Thanks for your reply. I had no idea UK bookers were given this option; I haven't found the thread.

[upwarduk]

Thanks for your reply. I had no idea UK bookers were given this option; I haven't found the thread.

 

I think this might be the thread you are looking for:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2272939

Edited November 2, 2015 by upwarduk

[Beanb41]

Interesting cruise and follow up comments. I would like to make a general comment about a couple of issues raised in the O/P

 

.1. Many people had non-refundable overnight accommodation booked in Israel.

2. Many had non refundable trips and travel arrangements.

These two issues are a prime reason for travel insurance, because those who missed out would have been able to claim.

 

I had an issue with X a few weeks ago that was going nowhere so I changed tack and used social media namely Facebook on the Celebrity home page. Within 24 hours I had my issue resolved and compensation for my troubles.

 

Sometimes being nice doesn't cut the mustard so one needs to get real and Social media is a way of getting real.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Beanb41

[jagoffee]

Compman9,

IMO you are to be commended for an excellent well written review and summary of your situation and opinions. Your attitude in a very disappointing situation is amazing and adds instant credibility to your comment. I can only imagine how disappointed I would be in your situation.

I am curious as to how much of a premium people paid for this cruise over a standard med cruise in October.

I hope that you will receive some additional compensation and $300 OBC seems like a very reasonable token from Celebrity. If I was in charge you would get it for sure.

 

Enjoy your future cruises and thank you for sharing.

[DYKWIA]

...

I am curious as to how much of a premium people paid for this cruise over a standard med cruise in October.

.....

 

My wife and I were looking at this cruise in about April / May and noted that the cruise appeared to be heavily discounted with lots of availability - seem to recall you could get a Sunset Veranda at non-guarantee rate for about £1300 - cheaper if you wanted a regular balcony - there may have also been some additional "freebies" thrown in as well (OBC / Drink Package) but I can't remember. This was significantly cheaper than any other non guarantee cruise only prices for that duration around the Med.

 

What put us off, was the possibility of it being a bit too cool in parts of the Med and a general concern over security in the middle east and daily reports of the migrant issues in that part of the Med.

 

 

....

I hope that you will receive some additional compensation and $300 OBC seems like a very reasonable token from Celebrity. If I was in charge you would get it for sure.

.

 

If implemented for every passenger that could be about $860,000, the Shareholders might have something to say about that.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DYKWIA