American Airlines is absolutely infuriating!

[Bruin Steve]

Although Hawaiidan did throw out some generalizations, he is mostly correct. I just booked ff miles on UA, to Egypt, for next February. At booking, the system showed a host of possibilities for travel. Only one option allowed for saver miles use, while a multitude of options were available for standard miles. This is the two tier system of which Dan spoke. I would have preferred a routing available on a different airplane through a different airport, but didn't want to pay double the miles for the business class seat at the standard mileage rate. I purchased business class seats (ff miles) but on one of my domestic legs I had to take a economy seat, and then pay to upgrade it to PE, even though 1st class seats were available.

 

I have been through this with both UA and AA. The availability of partner seats, at any level, on any plane, on any route, is solely up to that partner, whether Star Alliance or oneworld. If Lufthansa only releases certain of its flights to Star Alliance ff miles or with standard miles only, United has no power over that and can only honor their releases. I tried to book a return from New Zealand last year to the States and it was at a high tourist travel time and NZ never released any business/first class seats to the system. They sold them all during that time frame. Same for AA and its partners. Qantas actually release miles on its ff system only and never gave AA any open ff seats through that time period.

 

It is always important to look at the "operated by" portion of the code shares, not whether UA or AA has a code share flight number on it to determine what is going on. This becomes highly obvious when trying to book seat assignments these days on flights operated by the partner lines.

 

As an example of flexibility. Using free miles for our cruise from Sidney to Auckland, passengers were able to book miles on United, round trip, Sidney on UA. They had to purchase one way tickets from Auckland back to Sidney, on the airline of their choice, because NZ Airlines never released seats for ff miles to UA, during that schedule on the UA system, from either Auckland to the States, or to Sidney. Other times of the year NZ Air does make seats available.

 

International travel and partner airlines is a whole other thing.

 

I'm going on a European cruise in a couple of months..my sister and brother-in-law are going as well..

We both tried to use FF miles for the trip...I went through my BA account, they were using AA...

I booked first and was able to get some great flight times going LAX to Barcelona on BA and home nonstop from Madrid on Iberia...When my Brother-in-law tried to get the same flights with his AAdvantage account, he couldn't...on any level...

BA had released seats...and Iberia released them and made them available through BA...but AA wasn't even allowing the dates yet. By the time my Brother-in-law was able to book ANY flights, my flights were completely sold out of fF seats...

[Regguy]

Well, Reg,

I guess I owe you an apology of sorts...

I just called the AAdvantage program and explained the discussion and asked if that were correct...And the person I spoke with said yes. I then asked why the agent I spoke with at the time told me there were no other options...and why the website showed no other options...and her response was that the Anytime Economy award likely cost more than the First Class award...so, the agent likely just ignored it and told me that was the only option...since the alternative made no sense at all.

 

I am a little surprised. I've tried to book several trips in the past few years...and, after reaching frustration level, I've always ended up calling AA...with mixed results. I've had a couple of very good agents who have gotten creative on alternative routes (usually trips to Europe)...and I've had some with no solutions at all...but I've NEVER had one tell me that an "Anytime" award was always an option.

 

OTOH, if an Anytime award is priced higher than a First Class award, is it really an option?

 

And, of course, if it's an "option" that means shelling out 100,000 miles plus for a domestic coach seat, doesn't that further my contention that the program has become, largely, worthless?

 

No apology necessary -- informing people is the highest and best use of this board. I wouldn't get half as much out of cruising as I get out of it, if it weren't for these boards, and lots of it is stuff I could have never figured out on my own.

 

The world of frequent flier mileage redemption is complicated, counter-intuitive and unnecessarily complex, in large measure because that's the way that the airlines like it. Plus, the rules change as soon as you think you know them.

 

As it turns out, the agent you spoke to did not give you the absolute straight scoop, which happens -- not from malice but often they don't even know. Just sticking to domestic USA, there are three levels of AA anytime awards: Level 1, level 2, and level 3. Level 1 is 20,000 miles one way. Level 2 is 30,000 miles one way. Level 3 is . . . . well, level 3 is "we make it up as we go along and don't publish it, but it's really really high." Which level you have to pay depends on what day you wish to travel. The good news is that level 3 is really rare, and so for purposes of this discussion shouldn't really concern anyone -- it's limited for, like, nonstops from Dallas to Hawaii on the Saturday before Thanksgiving, where AA is selling seats for $1400 in coach and doesn't want people to get them cheaper by purchasing miles and then redeeming them for the trip. So, they reserve the right in this case to implement premium pricing, but they really are very restrained about it, by and large, especially if you're booking well in advance.

 

So, if you're travelling on a level 1 day, you're not paying much of a premium at all over a saver award to fly in economy -- it's 20,000 miles, which is only 7,500 above saver availability, which if you're limited to only a particular day to travel and the cash price for the ticket is very high might be worth it. On a day when it's 30k, the calculation is different. The agent you spoke to was not completely correct that this is necessarily more than a first class award. A first class saver award domestic USA is 25k, so a level 1 economy anytime award is less than a first class saver award, and a level 2 is slightly higher. A first class domestic USA anytime award is 55k, so even a level 2 is significantly lower.

 

But the last part of your message is definitely correct -- for international awards, especially in premium cabins, anytime awards are obscenely expensive and virtually never make sense. It's almost always better to use cash. In fact, most people will tell you that anytime awards are always a bad deal and are just a sucker's play for the airline to try to get you to use your miles for less than they are worth. My view? They're your miles, use them how you like. Yes, it's true, that you'll get way more "value" if you book a business class Cathay Pacific ticket using your AA miles than if you use them for a mid-week trip from Des Moines to Dallas. But it's good to know the options. If you're miles rich and cash poor at a particular time, then you do what you gotta do. Anytime awards are good to have in your back pocket in circumstances where a particular route is selling at a high rate, or at the last minute -- the 20k level 1 for domestic USA is good. Level 1 for USA to Europe in coach is 47,500 I believe, which is also not too bad for last minute travel if the cash price is through the roof, etc.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Regguy

[nolatravelgirl]

NOT what "Anytime" means...It means that the award, if available, is available during the times the "saver" awards are blacked out. BUT it is NOT always" available. The airlines only release a limited number of frequent flier seats...and they do not have them always available for every flight. They also do not necessarily release available ff seats 330 days in advance when the schedule is released. They may or may not release them at any time...in their discretion...or never at all.

 

If only those "Anytime Coach" and "Anytime Business" seats were ALWAYS available, no way would I have booked First Class...

Again YOU are wrong! I just did a search for Houston to FLL for 4 people during December arguably one of the busiest times for flights. You can see that you can book FOUR tickets for literally every day if you pick Economy Anytime.

 

[broberts]

I'm still trying to figure out how someone with enough miles to book two cross country 1st class round trip tickets can be surprised by the results.

[critterchick]

Horsefeathers. AA's 773 business class is right up there. I've only flown on United's current business class product once, but it too was comparable to almost any European carrier I've flown.

 

The plane is nice but the service pales in comparison to what at least some of the non-US carriers offer. Same with the A321 LAX-JFK (although I still miss the 767). I never know if I'm going to get a good crew or one that does as little work as possible. I've found the service in economy to be better most of the time.

 

Steve, I'm sorry you had such a rotten experience. I've been an Aadvantage member since the beginning of the program and both the program and airline have fallen a long way (but from what I understand so have most airlines; I don't fly them much so don't know). But Flyertalk is a great resource to find out things in advance, and you would have known much of what surprised you before you left. They do eat their young over there, though.:eek:

[Globaliser]

Isn’t the idea here to have a discussion that helps people who might be reading?

In that spirit, perhaps other readers can take these points away from this discussion. They are not new, and they all get said from time to time here on Cruise Air.

1. Do your research in advance, including asking for advice beforehand.
2. Set your expectations according to the results of your research, not according to your pre-conceived assumptions about what you'll get.
3. Remember that things will sometimes go wrong - it's inevitable that they will when you travel - and that resolution can be sub-optimal.
4. Keep a sense of proportion about any things that do go wrong.
5. If experts give you advice, accord it some weight even if you don't like hearing what they are saying.
6. Don't get all bent out of shape or throw your toys out of the pram just because some relatively minor things happen.

[Bruin Steve]

[*]Don't get all bent out of shape or throw your toys out of the pram just because some relatively minor things happen.

 

Yes...Certainly DON'T write about your less than satisfactory experiences on here lest people like Globaliser--who, unlike you, has a "special relationship" with the airlines--will berate you and call you a baby...

 

And, remember, no matter how bad you perceive the airlines to be, many here will feel it's all "minor" and everyone should just learn to accept it without a whimper...

[pinotlover]

I would like to add a few other things to the list above, if one must travel on the day of embarkment:

 

1. Consider weather and season. If given the choice, don't fly through O'Hara in the middle of the winter. It may cost a little more to fly through elsewhere, but those dollars may be well spent. I likewise avoid DFW this time of year because of all the Tstorms, etc. Denver (DIA) is notorious for almost daily late afternoon Tstorms from mid July-August that back flights up horribly. Book yourself around that airport during that season, morning are fine, afternoons can be a nightmare!

 

2.Getting out of bed and catching an earlier flight is always better than giving one self to short of layover at any airport.

 

3. Most of the time, international flights depart ( leave the gate) on schedule and are given departure priority over domestic flights. So even if delays exists, because of weather at any international airport. Expect the international flights to depart on (or close to on) time. They don't wait on passengers!

 

4. If one travels frequently, the cost of an airline club can well be worth the price, because it typically gets one in front of an Agent more quickly than the long line in the main hall. One may find a line of 5 with 3 club service Agents getting you rebooked, in the Airline club, while a line of 100 with 3 Agents exists in the main hall.

 

5. For those long hauls, do a bit of research before departure and understand alternative routings if a problem occurs. If have seen Agents struggle to find reroutings, but after making a suggestion, from my prior research, the Agent was able to find it and get us quickly rebooked.

 

6. There is typically a reason why some flights are less inexpensive than others. If you want to get to the ship on time, the cheapest available airfare may not always be the best option to achieve that goal.

 

So, if one must fly the day of, you now have a list of things to consider.

[Globaliser]

And, remember, no matter how bad you perceive the airlines to be, many here will feel it's all "minor" and everyone should just learn to accept it without a whimper...

Not just here. It was interesting to re-read the reactions you got on your FlyerTalk thread, from people who (unlike me) know what they're talking about so far as AA is concerned.

[Bruin Steve]

Since everyone here and on flyer talk claims to know a lot more about this than I do, allow me to give a little better recap, an update and summary:

 

1. The AAdvantage program has deteriorated over the years.

 

2. "First Class" can be, depending on flight and aircraft, only slightly better than coach--slightly wider seat, slightly better legroom and you get to board first...IF you are at the gate in time. But, on many flights, no food, no entertainment, no better service. On the old US Air planes, in particular, First Class seats are particularly uncomfortable.

 

3. American's communications with its ticketholders can be spotty. It's up to you to continually check your flights.

 

4. American Airline's Customer Service is fairly difficult. No way to directly communicate with anyone with authority.

 

5. That said, it DOES pay to complain to customer service...not just to sit back and accept anything you get and forgive issues which, though important to you, posters here think are minor.

 

Here's the update:

After being offered the 3,000 miles by the original service rep, I took her advice and wrote back. The second rep I spoke to was more sympathetic and said she'd forward my comments to the folks higher up. I had made a few recommendations--constructive criticism--things that might improve their First Class experience without adding major cost. Subsequent to that conversation...and after most of the discussion here, I heard back from another person at AA who said they appreciated the feedback and awarded me a much higher number of frequent flier miles (I won't get into the specifics, but, suffice it to say it wasn't the 60,000 I asked for but substantially more than the 3,000 originally offered. I feel it was an equitable gesture on AA's part).

 

Bottom line: The customer service is a bit difficult. But, the airline really should listen to its customers. If the service has flaws, if the value isn't there, you have every right to let them know...and it may not be entirely unreasonable for them to accommodate you in some way. I guess, maybe, one lesson is not to talk about it here or on flyer talk...unless you are very thick-skinned...I'm moving on...I now have the miles to take one more round trip on AA, so I guess I'll have to fly them again at least once...as long as I can get a reasonably priced coach seat.

[Gardyloo]

I'm looking for a take-away from this thread that might be of benefit for others. That is, after all, the purpose of this website, isn't it?

 

It strikes me that cruisers are very much "planners." This whole site is full of "either-or" and benefit-cost ("is it worth it?") questions. People parse sailing itineraries, choices of ship and cabins, excursion alternatives, what taxi or car service to take, where to have lunch in Juneau or spend the night in Barcelona, and on and on and on.

 

But with air arrangements, it strikes me that there is proportionately less planning and budgeting and research than for the cruise itself, despite the fact that flying might well cost as much or even more. Maybe I'm delusional, but a lot of the comments I see on this board make me think that people put less planning and research into buying a plane ticket costing $1000 or 50,000 miles than they would into buying a vacuum cleaner.

 

It's not like the information isn't out there. My God, is it out there! Like cruise lines, the airlines are hyper-competitive, so you can - with a very modest amount of effort - find out how big your seat is, what's for dinner, what is and isn't included in your airfare... it's all there, and it's not hard to find, not hard at all.

 

To me, being a smart consumer is as much about the before as it is the after. By all means, if a purchase doesn't live up to your expectations, beef about it. Squeaking wheels and all that. But if you're planning cruises a year out, it seems to me you have plenty of time to research your options for air travel, and - maybe - avert the "surprises" that impacted the OP in this case.

[pinotlover]

Double Amen!!!

[waterbug123]

It's not like the information isn't out there. My God, is it out there! Like cruise lines, the airlines are hyper-competitive, so you can - with a very modest amount of effort - find out how big your seat is, what's for dinner, what is and isn't included in your airfare... it's all there, and it's not hard to find, not hard at all.

 

^^^this

 

Between the airline website themselves, independent sites like Seat Guru, the wealth of information available from experienced flyers in forums like this one, Flyertalk, etc. there is no reason someone should be surprised to find out that their comfort+ seat was the same width as a regular economy seat, or that no meal would be served on a given flight, or that a given aircraft doesn't have seat-back entertainment screens or power ports, or that they wouldn't get lounge access on a domestic first class flight and so on and so on.

[Bruin Steve]

...there is no reason someone should be surprised...

 

I sort of thought I was through with this, but, as long as people keep posting, there is one bit of misinformation that keeps getting repeated here that I thought I needed to come back and correct...

 

I NEVER said I was "surprised" by how bad First Class was...as in getting to the plane without doing any research and expecting something vastly different...

 

All I was doing was noting that "First Class" IS pretty bad...

Yes, I asked all of the questions about lounges well before the flight...

And, I looked up the plane and seat descriptions on SeatGuru...

 

I NEVER said any of this took me by surprise--ONLY that I found it all very disappointing. I still thought it appropriate to point out just how bad First Class has become...Especially on THIS particular plane.

 

I think the way this notion of "Surprise" came up here is "people imagining facts not in evidence"...In attempting to discredit me or to attack my review as something other than my reviewing the flights, those folks were looking to scold me for deserving what I got since I, obviously (to them) must not have done my research... Somewhere in all of this discussion, others just assumed that is what happened...and have continued to go with it.

 

It's just NOT what happened here...

 

I knew the width of the seats, I knew the lack of a lounge, I knew the lack of entertainment. I was a little bit unprepared for the lack of food on most of the flights--partly because they switched flights on us last minute and the flights we HAD been booked on HAD food...and we had ordered in advance on the website.

 

As to the Charlotte/FLL legs, info on the web stated no food on flights under two hours--but those legs, officially were timed at 2:04. But I was not complaining to AA about that trivial difference--rather making some observations about the policy overall--When you are routing people through a hub and your passengers are travelling for a total of as much as 9 hours with little time between flights (and most of the passengers seemed to be in a similar position), and that 2 hour leg is during normal breakfast time, it would be nice to have a little bit more than a bag of chips...

 

But, my complaint really wasn't based on that...Observations such as that were merely an aside to my major complaint--which was regarding the flight cancellation with no advance notice--for which I was told by an AA representative was actually cancelled weeks ahead of that and NOT a typical last minute cancellation for equipment failure, bad weather or the like. Apparently, it WAS at least a temporary schedule change as they switched the route over to other aircraft and reassigned their fleet. Somehow, the email/text alert system...for which I was signed up and which would normally have sent out a more timely notice...failed. AA eventually agreed with me on that one--which is why they consented to giving me a larger miles rebate than initially offered.

 

The quality of "First Class" is a completely different issue--one which I really believe is fair for discussion on boards like this. Fairly clear from my reading that most here agree that the quality of First Class has deteriorated...anbfd that these former US Air planes are the worst...Whether anyone might be "surprised" by that (and I clearly wasn't), it's still a valid criticism...and THAT is why I brought it up here...and why I brought it up with AA.

[K12Guy]

"I now have the miles to take one more round trip on AA, so I guess I'll have to fly them again at least once...as long as I can get a reasonably priced coach seat."

 

Yes, Steve. And now you've had the final word.

 

Move on folks, nothing left to see here. Steve is Steve.

[waterbug123]

 

I NEVER said I was "surprised" by how bad First Class was...

 

All I was doing was noting that "First Class" IS pretty bad...

Yes, I asked all of the questions about lounges well before the flight...

And, I looked up the plane and seat descriptions on SeatGuru...

 

I NEVER said any of this took me by surprise--ONLY that I found it all very disappointing.

 

Ok Steve you win. You weren't surprised by what you got, or didn't get, in first class. You knew exactly what you were getting, but for some reason still chose it and then decided to complain about it. Sorry, but it sure sounded like you were met with surprise. Given that you knew what you were getting, it's really a separate issue from the operational mistakes you encountered, like the non-notification of schedule change. As such, you might have gotten a better response from many if you had stuck to what AA actually did wrong that day. If you want to complain about what you feel is the sad state of first class service, a separate post might have been more appropriate.

[slidergirl]

Ok Steve you win. You weren't surprised by what you got, or didn't get, in first class. You knew exactly what you were getting, but for some reason still chose it and then decided to complain about it. Sorry, but it sure sounded like you were met with surprise. Given that you knew what you were getting, it's really a separate issue from the operational mistakes you encountered, like the non-notification of schedule change. As such, you might have gotten a better response from many if you had stuck to what AA actually did wrong that day. If you want to complain about what you feel is the sad state of first class service, a separate post might have been more appropriate.

 

This. The way you wrote this, I got the impression that you thought you were going to get this glorious "first class" experience and you were upset you did not. It read like you were expecting international-type service and were blindsided by not getting that. It did not come off as you already knew you weren't getting lounge access, you were aware of the old seats, no IFE, no food… If you had stuck to the cancelled flight, you would have received "better" responses. I'm not an AA flier, but the domestic first class issue is not just to them. I'm a DL flier and the issues are exactly the same if I somehow get a first class seat on a DL domestic flight. I am by no means a FF anymore, but I know what I'm going to get when I purchase or use my miles and I will not whine about it.

[Globaliser]

Given that you knew what you were getting, it's really a separate issue from the operational mistakes you encountered, like the non-notification of schedule change. As such, you might have gotten a better response from many if you had stuck to what AA actually did wrong that day.

If you had stuck to the cancelled flight, you would have received "better" responses.

I agree with this, and not just about the responses here.

[broberts]

I sort of thought I was through with this, but, as long as people keep posting, there is one bit of misinformation that keeps getting repeated here that I thought I needed to come back and correct...

 

I NEVER said I was "surprised" by how bad First Class was...as in getting to the plane without doing any research and expecting something vastly different...

...

 

The reason you are not through with this is that most of the OP dealt with complaints about service.

 

From the above post apparently AA in fact met your expectations. In my universe this generally means that there is no basis for complaint.

 

Piling on complaints just obfuscated the point you were apparently trying to make. On that point, I have to admit to little sympathy. Partly due to having to plow through all the extraneous information but also as it appears that the complaint stems from a lack of diligence by both parties.

[fbgd]

Well, JetBlue have announced they'll be including LAX-FLL as part of the expansion of their Mint service.

 

I've flown it between JFK and LAX and at $1200 return (this is the pretty standard introductory rate) it's amazing value. I slept as well on the overnight back about as well as I have on any international flight in F.